General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDo I have this right?
The Republicans raised the debt ceiling EIGHTEEN TIMES for Reagan, THREE TIMES for Trump and pushed through a 7.8 TRILLION DOLLAR tax cut for mega-corporations and billionaires, but now will not raise the debt ceiling for President Biden because to do so would be "financially irresponsible"?
The GOP wouldn't be THAT shameless------unless they thought they would be allowed to get away with it.
mnhtnbb
(31,386 posts)for them to be without shame when they refuse to remember or acknowledge history.
MiniMe
(21,714 posts)gab13by13
(21,332 posts)It will pass the House. All Democrats should vote for it in the Senate. If Mitch wants to filibuster it make them stand on the Senate floor and explain why Social Security checks aren't coming, make them explain to the active military why they aren't going to get paid.
This should be no big deal for Democrats, call for the vote. I can do without SS for a while.
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)It would destroy the current norms of civility and bipartisanship.
BootinUp
(47,144 posts)left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)Social security checks were not endangered.
gab13by13
(21,332 posts)When extraordinary measures are exhausted, the Treasury spends its cash on hand. When that runs out which experts estimate could happen in October the U.S. government would not be able to meet its debt obligations and would go into default. This has never happened in U.S. history.
If the U.S. government cannot pay its bills, millions of Americans would be affected. Social Security payments would not go out; U.S. troops and federal civilian employees would not be paid. Veterans could see compensation or pension payments lapse. And millions of Americans on food assistance would see benefits stop.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)However, there is the possibility that a government shutdown could delay how fast that money reaches people. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen:
Nearly 50 million seniors could stop receiving Social Security checks for a time, Yellen wrote.
Social Security is sui generis, a legal term which means it is on its own, according to Altman.
My reading of the law is that Social Security will not be affected and shouldnt be affected, she said.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/22/what-debt-ceiling-woes-could-mean-for-social-security-benefits.html
OrangeJoe
(337 posts)SoCalDavidS
(9,998 posts)That's why this country is FUBAR.
happy feet
(869 posts)The media won't promote messaging from Democrats like Warren who explicitly point out McConnell's hypocrisy in now voting to pay the bills run up by he and Trump.
JustAnotherGen
(31,819 posts)The debt ceiling is promise to pay for money already spent. It gives the USA credibility on existing debts.
They have convinced people that is to INCREASE our debt, when it fact it is the opposite.
The tax cuts and spending during the Trump administration is what we are talking about here.
Suspending or increasing the limit does not authorize any new spending.
But the GOP has told this lie since Reagan and here we are. This has nothing to do with the 3.5 plan.
BlueJac
(7,838 posts)mitch96
(13,895 posts)I don't have any proof but there is a pattern I see of repukes running up the deficit and then the dems reduce it. Then with a big surplus (a la Clinton) the repukes run it up again. All the while railing against the Dems for not lowering the deficit that THEY caused. Biden turned the tables by out spending the repukes and dropping in THEIR lap if and when they get back into power. This is just MY observation. YMMV
McConnell is the devils spawn.. Power and money Power and money Power and money
m
underpants
(182,791 posts)This pales in comparison but yes that exactly correct.
ffr
(22,669 posts)Here's to hoping that old Covid makes an example of him too.
greblach
(257 posts)simple...
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)with pretty much anything. We've trained them well.
Jakes Progress
(11,122 posts)Hekate
(90,674 posts)Not a shred
OldBaldy1701E
(5,126 posts)Walleye
(31,017 posts)They want everybody and God to know just how hypocritical they are, in the name of what, Jesus I guess
MurrayDelph
(5,294 posts)Mitch wants the Democrats to have to carve out a filibuster exception so that if HE gets back in power, he can carve that sucker down to the bone, boil the bones into a foul broth AND blame the Democrats for starting it.
(See: nominee process, where after Mitch got Harry Reid to slap down Jeff Merkley's plans for filibuster reform by promising to only use it in "extreme situations," which Mitch apparently defined as "Democrats trying to get shit done," Harry created a carve-out for judicial nominees other than Supreme Court. And when he got the chance, Mitch blew up that exception AND blamed the Democrats)
Caliman73
(11,736 posts)Everything except the last part.
The GOP wouldn't be THAT shameless------unless they thought they would be allowed to get away with it.
The above is the part that isn't correct and maybe not for the reason you might think. Conservatives and the Republican party would absolutely be what we call "shameless". Their concept of shame is different from what liberals would consider shame. I would preface this with the obligatory "not all conservatives" but generally, as an ideology the purpose of conservatism is to structure society in a hierarchy with rich White men at the top and everyone else underneath in subservient roles. As such, anything in service to the vision is fair game. If conservatives can maintain power through democracy, they will do so. If they need to do away with it to do so, they have little problem doing so. We need to remember that the foundations of Conservatism were created in the defense of Monarchy, and while they no longer defend the institutions of monarchy, the ideology has not changed significantly. They still support RULE by inherent superiors. They have replaced Kings, Queens, and nobles with wealthy business people.
Liberals want to flatten society and will advocate for a generally equitable distribution of the benefits of society, we recognize that there are people who have specific needed talents and skills, but generally would reward that with perks, not by stating that those people are inherently superior and destined to be in charge. Liberals can be conflicted about aspects of society and their ideas. When we learn that a tradition or way of doing things is damaging others, we may feel torn and struggle with shedding traditions, but ultimately we respond to the new information and make the changes.
When "liberal ideals" fail or we fail to live up to them, we feel a sense of shame for our own failure or the failure of our ideals to help people. Conservatives, in my experience, do not feel that or if they do, they very quickly convert the shame into aggression and backlash. Whenever conservatism fails (which it does ... a lot) conservatives will blame the individual, the politician, anything except the ideology.
It is clearly the ideology that is a failure. If it wasn't a failure, we would all still be ruled by monarchs.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)However, there is the possibility that a government shutdown could delay how fast that money reaches people. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen:
Nearly 50 million seniors could stop receiving Social Security checks for a time, Yellen wrote.
Social Security is sui generis, a legal term which means it is on its own, according to Altman.
My reading of the law is that Social Security will not be affected and shouldnt be affected, she said.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/22/what-debt-ceiling-woes-could-mean-for-social-security-benefits.html
RainCaster
(10,870 posts)If the Dems want to have some spending money, the GOP has stated that they must be fiscally responsible. Too bad the GOP never followed their own advice. So turn the tax code back to 1950s when corporations & the rich all paid their fair share of taxes.
Let Moscow Mitch howl over that.
FakeNoose
(32,637 posts)Thank you Raincaster, I came on here to say the same.
CaptainTruth
(6,589 posts)ReTHUGlicans will do anything to help a GOP POTUS, even if it hurts the country, but they'll do nothing to help a Dem POTUS.
IronLionZion
(45,434 posts)is fiscally Republican. But raising it for rebuilding infrastructure during a pandemic is socialism.
live love laugh
(13,104 posts)Patton French
(756 posts)you have it exactly right.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)but yeah, that is right
Blue Owl
(50,356 posts)Evolve Dammit
(16,725 posts)average American has neither the intellectual curiosity or the sense of civic duty enough to be even minimally informed.
Ford_Prefect
(7,895 posts)Shame would involve awareness that they were doing something wrong. They do NOT believe anything they do is wrong. They fervently believe they were elected to defeat Democratic governance. NONE of them have the least idea how to constructively participate in Congress or the Senate. They only know how to damage the social contract implicit in the US Constitution.
This is NOT the Congress that passed the Civil Rights Act. There were conservatives in office then who saw the need to answer to a greater national need. I doubt you could find a dozen in either house who would do such a thing now.
My personal view of them is they should be arrested for treason. QED.
Moebym
(989 posts)The video was of Marsha Blackburn calling the fear over what might happen to the economy should the debt ceiling not be raised "manufactured hysteria".
The comments are full of people who've bought into the Republican lies about the debt ceiling being an increase in spending. One user commented that the people of Michigan don't want this - apparently, he speaks for ALL Michiganders - and that the Democrats are out of control.
I decided to throw in my two cents because the comments that were supportive of Marsha Blackburn's views outnumber the critical ones. I don't expect I'll change any minds, but who knows?
Wolf Frankula
(3,600 posts)We came up with more than a hundred years ago, to persuade Congress to fund Wilson's war. Time to get rid of it. Put it in the garbage can with Prohibition, another stupid idea.
Wolf
diverdownjt
(702 posts)And I know this is politically incorrect....but then take that dumpster fire and dump it in the deepest part of the ocean.
Dukkha
(7,341 posts)and will never hit rock bottom
diverdownjt
(702 posts)They're always using the double set of rules that the media let's them use.
ananda
(28,859 posts)as usual.
jaxexpat
(6,820 posts)But then the electorate makes their dream come true again and again.