General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIs it time now to take away a Presidents pardon power?
Before its abused even more allowing a criminal President to be above the rule of law, and escape justice?
Celerity
(42,672 posts)The pardon power of the President is based on by Article II, Section 2, Clause 1 of the U.S. Constitution, which provides:
duforsure
(11,882 posts)But its exposed how corruptly it could be abused, or allow a President's criminal actions could be promoted knowing he can escape criminal consequences, or another Presidents use of it for political gains. After corruption of our government has been exposed we need to change loopholes and laws that will put them above thee rule of law, or it'll breed more corrupt people to run for that office .
Celerity
(42,672 posts)It has too many fatal flaws in it that rely on 'good faith actors'.
You now are seeing the structural weaknesses exposed by the rise of a non-good faith Party.
The Rethugs have gained the system to a large degree over the past 56 years, from the bottom up, local to state to federal. All branches. It will only get worse I fear.
The largest imminent danger is that a Rethug Congress in 2024 will refuse to certify enough states' slates of Electoral College if a Dem wins, thus throwing into the House, where they will have enough state delegations (it is basically impossible to pull them under 26 now, the minimum needed, and they will likely have more than 26 anyway) where they will elect the Rethug.
Many constitutional experts and lawyers have been saying this, but little talk if it on here.
duforsure
(11,882 posts)But not a reason to do nothing when corruption is exposed, and roadblocks could be enacted . When it gets bad enough things will change, for the better, one way or another.
Celerity
(42,672 posts)Last edited Sat Sep 25, 2021, 12:27 PM - Edit history (1)
points. Also, the very nature of the Congressional districting (and simply some States as a whole) as it is now in place (and will only get worse) means that our Democratic Caucus has many, many moderates, who are terrified to go hardcore on the Rethugs as they are in swing districts or States.
By our nature, Dems generally hew to the principles of fairplay and an abundance of caution when it comes to the rule of law. I see so so many people everywhere who think the Rethugs will eventually come around to reason and fairplay. They are NOT going to. That Party is dead and buried.
They literally want to kill and/or destroy and/or enslave and/or permanently neuter their opposition and those that they see as 'the other', 'the enemy'. They have been scientifically indoctrinated now for what will be 60 years come 2024. The last 35-40 years (rise of Reagan and hate radio, then Fux News in 1996, my birth year) at a very high level, and the last 15 or so (come 2024) at hyper-saturation levels enabled by the rise of social media, especially 2015 onward.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)As long as human beings are involved, there's always the chance that corruption could ensue .
The solution to that is to be more responsible about whom we entrust power to.
Cattledog
(5,897 posts)It would never happen. It would take a constitutional amendment to do so.
duforsure
(11,882 posts)At some point more in the republican party will reject these extremists in their party, and they will come to their senses. There will be changes on many things when this happens , and for the good of the country. Her power is growing, and she will help expose many in her party for their crimes. More will be joining her side.
Celerity
(42,672 posts)You need both (unless you have 34 states propose a Constitutional Convention, which is a nightmare in and of itself), and neither will happen.
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)Be able to get the votes. Many Republicans are ashamed of what their party has become.
Even fake good ole boy Kennedy said he would vote to raise the debt ceiling. They do not want to see the country destroyed economically.
Celerity
(42,672 posts)Both Parties would have huge blocs opposed to it.
Tomconroy
(7,611 posts)Not electing him.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)The power isn't the problem. The problem is the country was too sloppy about whose hands we put that power into.
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)There are discussions on that right now. A President should never be allowed to pardon his fellow crooks! Reagan did that, too. Of course he did not remember due to Alzheimers.
onetexan
(12,994 posts)FBaggins
(26,697 posts)If you can get the second then why didnt you use the first?
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Bluethroughu
(5,096 posts)I believe it should go to Congress for approval. Rump auctioned off pardons, if that's not pure corruption what is.
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)Hotler
(11,353 posts)point fingers at past presidents for their crimes and malfeasance. This business of not pointing fingers (calling for investigations) for fear that some president might point fingers a them is BS. Don't be a crook, fascist, rat fucker, war monger, etc and you have nothing to worry about. Suck it up, Scrutiny comes with the job.
sarisataka
(18,220 posts)Is going to pardon trump? Because your question is certainly written that way.
duforsure
(11,882 posts)It could be corruptly used by either party for financial, or political gains, putting them above the law. I also want them to have consequences instead of hearing a what's good for the country bs excuse.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)The ability to pardon is an important and very valuable power and has almost exclusively been used for good, with very few exceptions .
We can't let Trump's abuse upend the whole system.
Also, it would take a constitutional amendment to remove it. If the country found the will to amend the Constitution, there are plenty of other areas I would want to fix before messing with the pardon power.
UnderThisLaw
(318 posts)seemed designed to get certain responses. And responders.