If the Electoral College is 269 each

[bbinacan]

Would the outcome be a President Romney and a Vice President Biden? How weird that would be.

[pintobean]

1. My understanding is

the House would decide. We would lose.

[Motown_Johnny]

3. The House decides the President, the Senate the Vice President

and it is the new Congress, voted in this coming election. Not the one seated now.

[bbinacan]

5. It didn't know that it would be the new Congress

Thanks. So would the vote not happen until January?

[Motown_Johnny]

13. Yes, early January.

I forget the date off the top of my head. Someone on MSNBC went into it in detail a couple days ago.

[hrmjustin]

21. The 6th of January I think.

[zbdent]

46. Would likely be 1/8 ...

New House is sworn in 1/3. This year, that's on a Thursday. Then they're off for the weekend. 1/6 is a Sunday, as much as Repugs hate government employees taking a day off, you think you'd get them to work on a Sunday? (Well, unless it's to vote on an anti-abortion bill, or another toothless "Save Teri" bill).

Monday's a "travel" day, more or less they don't do s*it on Mondays. So, at earliest, it would be the 8th.

Unless the Repugs keep the House. Then they'd FORCE the decision on 1/1, as soon as the ball dropped.

[pintobean]

7. Okay. Thanks.

[demwing]

8. I would not want to be Romney

in the White House under those circumstances. Too much negative energy focused on you, and a potential for horrible violence.

[still_one]

37. Technically they could vote in someone entirely different. Even more extreme.

[meow2u3]

32. The House votes by Congressional delegation

In the event of an electoral tie, each state has a Congressional delegation. States which have an equal number of Reps and Dems don't vote, since their vote would end in a tie. The winner is whoever has the most states.

[CreekDog]

54. the house would decide with 1 vote per state

a complete travesty of democracy, although completely constitutional.

[Motown_Johnny]

2. It sure looks that way,

Unless of course the (R)s actually take control of the Senate, then it is Romney / Ryan.

I don't see it happening. I know it is mathematically possible but it is still very unlikely.


Edit because I forgot that in the House each state gets one vote, not each Representative. We would lose there pretty much no matter what.

[bbinacan]

12. If a tie

The repubs will likely keep the House but will not win the Senate. The only way for them to get the Senate would be with a Romney landslide.

[Azathoth]

4. Does anyone honestly think Democrats would have the balls to make Biden Romney's VP?

Republicans would do the reverse in an instant, but I think we all know there would be a contingent of self-styled Dem martyrs declaring "what we do now, we do for the good of the country."

[bbinacan]

6. I hope they would. n/t

[RomneyLies]

14. It's more likely there would be no result in the House

Due to the fact that each state delegation gets a single vote, split delegations would cast no vote and it's entirely likely neither candidate would get the required 26 votes.

Thus, the Senate would determine the president.

[Azathoth]

20. Where does it say that split delegations cast no vote?

Unless you're talking exact 50/50 splits...

On edit: I see that's what you mean from your post below.

[RomneyLies]

31. See post eleven

24 states have an even number of House members. It is highly likkely that one or more will have an evenly split delegation meaning that unless a member of one party or the other crossed party lines, any state with a evenly split delegation would cast no vote.

You'd be surprised how many states end up with evenly split delegations.

[Motown_Johnny]

16. That is political suicide. They would never win another election.

[Azathoth]

23. You really think guys like Nelson and Manchin wouldn't do it?

Hell, their approval in their own states would soar if they stabbed us in the back.

[Motown_Johnny]

35. Yes, Republicans would approve of them but won't vote for them over an (R)

Political suicide.

[Azathoth]

41. Wish I could be that confident

Guys like Manchin are getting elected by winning votes from folks who despise Obama.

[LisaL]

28. Republicans would do that in a minute.

I don't want democrats to not do it for the supposed good of the country.

[Tx4obama]

9. Here is a DU OP with details regarding the issue of a tie

Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251145242

[Recovered Repug]

10. As stated. the House picks to President and the Senate the Vice President.

However in the House, the vote is by states and not individual members. The President will be the candidate that gets 26 votes. The individual Senators pick the VP.

[RomneyLies]

11. It would be entirely dependent upon the House races.

It could conceivably be that there is no result from the House as 26 State Delegations must vote in favor of one candidate for that candidate to win. Split delegations would cast no vote. The following states could be split as they have an even number of representatives:

Arkansas
Georgia
Hawaii
Idaho
Illinois
Iowa
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Maine
Michigan
Minnesota
Mississippi
Missouri
Nevada
New Hampshire
New Jersey
Ohio
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island
Texas
Utah
Washington
Wisconsin

Any of those states with an even split of Democrats and Republicans would cast no vote for president unless a member of one party crosses the aisle. From there, the 26 number is an absolute requirement.

It's quite possible there would be no result from the House and either Joe Biden or Paul Ryan would become president depending upon the makeup of the Senate after the election.

[Motown_Johnny]

17. Wow, what a crazy scenario

Would a President Biden then be able to pick his V.P.? Presumably Barack Obama.

If so could President Biden then resign from office leaving the V.P. to become President? Then might that new President pick Joe Biden for his V.P.?

[RomneyLies]

27. Yes, Biden would be able to pick his VP

But that pick would have to be ratified by a majority vote of a committee of the whole (both houses of Congress in one meeting).

Your scenario could happen, but there would have to be 320 Democrats in a combination of the House and Senate for that to happen. Presumably, any scenario where 319 or fewer Democrats are in both houses would result in nobody ever being confirmed as Veep.

[Motown_Johnny]

33. Bleh, that might put Boehner one heartbeat away.

How scary is that?

[RomneyLies]

40. Very scary, but still a very REAL possibility

Remote, yes, but still possible.

[reformist2]

22. Oh wow, I never thought about the tied state delegations not voting before!

[SickOfTheOnePct]

55. And per Wikipedia

Right now, Democrats control 16 state delegations, Republicans control 33, and one is evenly split (Minnesota). Who knows if that will be the case after the elections, which is what would really matter.

[reformist2]

56. Ugh. Fortunately a 269-269 tie is highly unlikely...

I'm still expecting Obama to break the 300 ev mark when all is said and done.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

58. I'm expecting him to win

But I think it's going to be close.

[Azathoth]

34. If it got to that point, my guess is that one or more states would try to recall their delegations

Whether or not that would be Constitutional is anyone's guess.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

43. The rub here is that the Constitution doesn't say that tied states don't vote

That's a precedent that was set in 1825, however, the Constitution just says there has to be a ballot by states to decide on the President.

Another thing is that a quorum is 3/4 of the states...so, only 34 states have to be present to decide, and if 26 of them vote one way or the other, there's the Presidency. And it doesn't have to be full delegations, so if only one rep were to be there to vote for a state, that's it.

[Azathoth]

44. Do the standard quorum rules also apply?

I.e. would there still need to be at least 208 representatives present? Or could it be done with just 34 members?

This just gets better and better

[SickOfTheOnePct]

49. 34 states have to be present

So long as there was at least one person present for 34 states, the contingent election could be held.

[Azathoth]

51. So in theory Boehner and a handful of carefully chosen Teabaggers could pick the next President

Assuming they could engineer a way to call a vote with no one else present...

[SickOfTheOnePct]

53. In theory, yes

But the chances of that would be somewhere between slim and none. If the Electoral College ends up tied, it will be bedlam in DC between Nov 6 and Jan 6.

[RomneyLies]

59. That's why the Bush v. Gore decision was so accepted by the Congress in 2000.

The only other scenario would have been two Florida delegations and the decision thrown to the House.

Nobody in the House wanted that regardless of party. Much easier to let the SCOTUS be the bad guys, but the SCOTUS has been forever stained by that decision made even more odious because it cannot be applied as precedent.

[RomneyLies]

47. Yes, that precedent was set in 1825

The same precedent would stand today. No state would be able to cast a vote without a clear majority of the delegation. It's pretty simple.

And I doubt seriously if a single state would not be present for such a vote, and most likely no member of a state delegation would be absent. More likely in an ealy 19th century scenario, nearly impossible today.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

50. I agree, I can't see any state being absent

But it is not a binding precedent - there is nothing in the Constitution that says states with a tie can't cast a ballot.

And it can't just be any 34 reps - 34 states have to be represented.

[RomneyLies]

48. Consitutionally, 34 members are all that is required

though the likelihood of that happening is somewhere south of 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%

[Drunken Irishman]

15. Yes. The House picks the President and the Senate the Vice President...

But I would wager in a scenario like that, both parties would come to an agreement that the popular vote winner would be awarded enough electoral college votes to win.

[bbinacan]

18. I seriously doubt that. n/t

[Drunken Irishman]

29. I don't...

[Motown_Johnny]

19. Good luck with that. You think the (R)s would put President Obama back in office when

they could have a President Romney?


For that matter do you think the (D)s would put Romney in office when they could have a President Obama?


I think you would lose that wager.

[Drunken Irishman]

24. Yes.

[LisaL]

26. Really? Cause they have just such a great record of agreeing with each other?

The hell will freeze over first.

[Drunken Irishman]

30. Yes.

I think after 2000, we'd have a pretty nasty scene on our hands if there was an electoral tie and, say, Obama won the popular vote by 5% and the House handed the election over to Mitt Romney. It won't happen anyway, but if it did, I think the general agreement would be to vote for the candidate who won the popular vote.

[LisaL]

36. Oh good god.

I don't see a shred of evidence to support that idea. There is no doubt in my mind republicans would vote for Romney if given the chance, regardless of popular vote.

[Drunken Irishman]

42. Whatever...

I think you're wrong. I think the pressure to vote for the candidate who won the popular vote would be so huge that they would have no choice ... especially if Obama had a 1-5 point margin nationally ... especially since he's a sitting president.

I continue to believe that if ever a situation would arise (and I don't foresee it happening), the winner of the popular vote would be selected.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

57. I don't see them going by national popular vote

But I can certainly see a state deciding that they will go with winner of their state's popular vote.

Bottom line, each state can decide how they want to do it. There is nothing in the Constitution that mandates how a state decides to cast their single vote.

[Posteritatis]

45. hahaha, you used the phrase "both parties would come to an agreement" (nt)

[LisaL]

25. Yes, it's possible.

Congress could pick Romney and senate could pick Biden.

[hrmjustin]

38. don't assume every democrat or republican would vote with their party on that vote.

Political considerations at home might make it impossible to go with their party. Bottom line is that if it is 269-269 Romney will likely be president. God help us all!

[davidn3600]

52. It's likely they would be under tremendous pressure to vote their state's popular vote

In other words, say a state went for Romney but has more Democrat representatives in the House (or vice-versa). That vote would be a very difficult decision for that delegation. They either have to choose to turn their back on their party or vote against what the people in the state wanted.

So it's not as easy as adding up R's and D's. It can get complicated.
But there are more red states than blue states because Democrats are more concentrated in the bigger states. So I would say at this point Romney would have the upper hand in the event of an electoral tie. It looks like the Senate will stay with the Dems. So Biden would be VP.

In the election of 1800, that election went to the House and it took 36 rounds of voting before a deal was struck and Jefferson was elected. It was a mess.

[JPZenger]

61. Aaron Burr Almost Became President

Aaron Burr was expected to be Jefferson's VP. However, Burr double-crossed Jefferson and tried to become President. Much of the voting was driven by regional rivalries.

It was Alexander Hamilton who cast the deciding vote to elect Jefferson as President. Hamilton hated Jefferson and hated Jefferson's politics. However, he realized that Burr was a corrupt deceitful scoundrel, so Hamilton put his love of country over his personal hatred. Burr later was charged with literal treason.

[MFM008]

39. first thing

a recount of every vote in every state. You never know when a thousand or two will show up in a garbage bin.

Romney wins? No problem, Mayans say the world win end Dec 21,2012. So there IS hope.

[davidn3600]

60. The most realistic scenario for an electoral tie would be...

Romney winning FL, NC, VA, IA, NV, and CO.
Obama winning OH and NH.

Im not sure what the odds of that would be. But it's not implausible... It could happen.