General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGOP will launch another coup-attempt in 2024 and here is how they will do it:
Step 1: Officials in a republican-controlled state will allege that there has been election-fraud or enough irregularities to throw the vote-count of the state into question.
Step 2: Citing the federal "Electoral Count Act", the republican-controlled state-government will claim that this constitutes a "failed" election.
Step 3: The republican state-legislature will ignore the outcome of the vote and decides who the state shall send as electors to the Electoral College instead.
Step 4: Democrats cry foul and sue, taking it up to the Supreme Court, where the republican judges will decide that states can conduct their elections in any way they damn well please.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/9/25/2054406/-The-Documents-are-revealing-their-Electors-Swap-Scheme
It relies on the arcane provisions of the 1887 Electoral Count Act, to throw out their states slate of Electors based on the actual vote count and replace them with a slate of Electors of their own choosing. The Act provided this power to state legislators in anticipation of natural disaster disruptions of local elections. The GOP operatives behind the blatant misuse of this provision intend to use technical disasters instead, to overturn the will of the Voters of their states.
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In addition to reaching out to state officials, Trump was working with a deputy attorney general in the Justice Department, Jeffrey Clark, to get DOJ to weigh in on election disputes by falsely claiming fraud cost Trump the election. Clark prepared letters that would have had DOJ falsely claim that there were serious irregularities in the conduct of the election in states where Biden won, and he pushed for DOJ to file federal litigation in the Supreme Court mirroring the defeated Texas lawsuit.
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Putting together all of these actions, the end game was to get state legislatures to rely on purported evidence of fraud to declare alternative slates of presidential electors to be submitted to Congress for counting despite a lack of authority under state or federal law to do so; to argue that the federal Electoral Count Act, which governed the counting of Electoral College votes, permitted Congress to consider these alternative slates of electors because the fraud constituted a failed election under the Act; to get Vice President Mike Pence to delay the counting of Electoral College votes by January 6 until enough states could declare alternative slates of electors to call the presidential election into question; and ultimately to prevent Biden from obtaining a majority of Electoral College votes, triggering a procedure for choosing the President via votes by each states House of Representatives delegation that would have favored Trump
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Trumps lawyers and allies argued that in states where Biden won, the election had failed because other actors besides state legislators were involved in making rules for implementing the 2020 elections, thereby giving state legislatures the ability to appoint a rival slate of electors that could be sent to Congress.
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The argument that Article II and Article I, section 4 give state legislatures virtually unlimited powers over the rules for running presidential and congressional elections even if it means violating the states own Constitution has come to be known as the independent state legislature doctrine. This Essay is not the place for a full exploration of the doctrine, but there are serious reasons to doubt the muscular reading put forward by Trump and his allies in 2020.[84] Nonetheless, four conservative Justices on the Supreme Court at one point or another during 2020 expressed support for the doctrine,[85] and the other two Court conservatives could embrace some form of the doctrine as well.
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If enough states for control of the Electoral College with majority-Republican legislatures whose voters chose the Democratic presidential candidate sent in alternative slates of electors (or even blocked the sending in of the electors for the winning Democratic candidate), and if Republicans controlled both Houses of Congress, Congress could accept such bogus results and declare a Republican presidential loser the winner.
2naSalit
(86,072 posts)Already have that whole infrastructure in place. Our blood red legislature has already pushed through a bunch of election fraud laws and they are not back in session for another 18 months unless called to special session. Now it's all about the body-slammer gov and his AG fucking up everything else they can at breakneck speed. And watch out for that motherfucker, he plans to come from out of nowhere and grab a presidential nom, at least that's his plan. He's like tfg only he has money for real and is a well established christofascist.
Montana is in big fucking trouble and nobody is paying enough attention to help, we're under the rug.
milestogo
(16,829 posts)Would they do this for just any Republican?
FoxNewsSucks
(10,378 posts)A braying buffoon like MF45 is the best kind because he draws all the attention, leaving them free to do what they want without media scrutiny.
But any R president will do. They just want control.
SKKY
(11,773 posts)...the GQP is using to ensure they remain in power.
milestogo
(16,829 posts)FoxNewsSucks
(10,378 posts)because MF45 wasn't just playing a part to draw the attention. He really is an obnoxious self-absorbed attention-w****.
SKKY
(11,773 posts)...to take their eye off the ball, focus on him, and not paying much attention to what McConnell and the like did behind the scenes. And TFG didn't care at all what they did as long as he got to keep riding in Air Force 1, live in the White House, and be President. And because MAGA is without a doubt a cult of personality, he didn't lose anyone from his base to the plethora of scandals that even just one would have sank any other President. Hell, the right lost their shit when Obama wore a tan suit.
I really hope Jeffries and O'Malley have a plan up their sleeve, and are actively working with Stacy Abrams behind the scenes to do something about voter disenfranchisement because unless they are 100% unified, coordinated, and activated, this could get ugly. Can you imagine what would happen if something like Hawley, Pompeo, or got forbid MTG win the nomination?
Tomconroy
(7,611 posts)Given them the wink.
gab13by13
(20,876 posts)4 members of the Court have expressed the opinion of the States' absolute authority to run elections.
PortTack
(32,606 posts)Determining outcome.
Read the 144th and 15th amendments to the constitution!!
gab13by13
(20,876 posts)needs to go, there are too many loopholes.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,273 posts)Because the outcome is what the states Republican controlled legislature says it is. According to a specific interpretation of the US Constitution that says the will of the state legislature is supreme. Btw, this radical interpretation leaves out the Governor and the states Secretary of State.
And if The Supreme Court goes along with this radical interpretation thats the whole ballgame.
Several of the Justices already signaled they are ok with this radical interpretation.
You dont agree with it. I dont agree with it. But all that matters is how far the rising fascists in the Republican Party will go with it. You can quote The 14th and 15th and the radicals on the Supreme Court will say does not apply.
Loyola Law wrote a paper on this in 2019. The Atlantic wrote an article about some of these fears prior to the election. People posted these here and were called chicken littles.
Read this Loyola Law article. I still maintain Georgia and Arizona saved our bacon. Had it gone down to Pennsylvania alone the prize would have been much more tempting for the Pennsylvania legislature.
Next time the ground will be more fertile with all the stolen election bull shit being spread.
Loyola article:
https://lawecommons.luc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2719&context=luclj
Tomconroy
(7,611 posts)Of Arizona and Georgia stood firm. DeSantis was demanding that state legislatures overturn the results.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)gab13by13
(20,876 posts)it's the GQP deciding who won the election instead of the voters.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... up to the military actions.
The Spanish leadership at the time should've cut the traitor talk off AS SOON AS IT BEGAN
abqtommy
(14,118 posts)in jail/prison. That is the solution to all our reTHUG problems.
PortTack
(32,606 posts)Elections as they see fit. They do not have the right to change outcomes.
Read amendments to the constitution 14 and 15
mopinko
(69,809 posts)we already have enough reasons to toss the ec.
that memo is all the reason we need to make it a god damn issue, as it should be.
it's bad enough as it stands. but if these fuckers want to take it any farther, the only answer is it's time to kill it.
a grave i hope to dance on.
walkingman
(7,512 posts)to prepare for this. Given that, the powers that be need to prepare to stop it. Not sure that it can be done at the State level but I hope the DOJ can do something? I was hoping for a more aggressive DOJ in a lot of matters but hopefully they are doing things just not being as boisterous as in the previous administration.
jalan48
(13,798 posts)investigation drags out the less chance any meaningful action will happen IMHO. The Republican's are working to steal back the House and Senate in 2022 with their new election laws and if they are successful what kind of investigation will take place then?
gab13by13
(20,876 posts)We have a choice - do away with the filibuster or do away with democracy.
KS Toronado
(16,914 posts)And go strictly popular vote, our country as we know it will not survive fascist rule.
Duppers
(28,094 posts)Not at all likely, right?
This situation with Rethugians has gotten more & more scary. They're willing to break all protocol to win.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)mountain grammy
(26,573 posts)Duppers
(28,094 posts)Joinfortmill
(14,247 posts)I'm an old woman, leaning toward stay and fight these MF'ers.
traitorsgalore
(1,390 posts)All the courts in the U.S. can say election rigging is illegal and the GOPuke states will say they don't see it that way. GOPukes are beyond reasoning with, they're gone. They don't belong in an advanced country because they don't believe in science, democracy, equal rights or the common good in any way, shape or form.
It's time to admit it to ourselves as a nation. We won't though, and the shit's going to hit the fan as soon as next year, 2022. The bigger question is: is this going to be a bad thing or a good thing? I think the U.S. would be an incredible country without the American Taliban/GOPuke party. Let them leave like covidiots in a casket and, once they leave, let's make sure they never come back.
Sur Zobra
(3,428 posts)This will destroy the Repuke Party. It needs to be ground to dust
Initech
(99,915 posts)Polybius
(15,239 posts)1) They might not have to. Unless voting rights are passed, they may "win" outright.
2) So why wasn't the 2020 election overturned then? We had the same Supreme Court makeup after the election.
DetlefK
(16,423 posts)It's in the article. The Republicans failed with their attempt in 2020 because several crucial people refused to go along with that plan.