I can't imagine a worse scenario politically than us passing the reconciliation bill

[dsc]

and having the only tax increase in it be a carbon tax. There is no way we can make that tax harmless to everyone under 400k without making it impossible to administer. People can't, and won't, save every single receipt for every single thing they buy which might be affected by a carbon tax, so we will have to have a rebate system where some will gain and others will lose. That is literally the only other option. Apparently Senator Sinema of Arizona has decreed that we can't raise income tax rates on even the stratospherically (literally given what our billionaire class has been doing) wealthy, or can we raise the corporate rate. So, we are left with a tax that will increase the cost of everything to everyone and some system of rebates to minimize but not prevent impact to the lower classes. Just what do you think people are going to do when this happens?

On top of this, we have been discussing such increases for years and Sinema said not one GD word until now. So she wants to force us to avoid politically popular (and frankly economically sensible pay fors) and replace them with a politically toxic (though to be fair economically decent) pay for. I am speechless. BTW on what planet do we think Manchin will go along with this? Honestly, the AZ Democratic party should refuse to endorse her in 2024 if she keeps this dumb position.

[ColinC]

1. I imagine not passing voting rights could be far worse.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

2. "save every single receipt for every single thing they buy which might be affected by a carbon tax"

Wait ... what now?

[dsc]

4. there are two ways to rebate this tax

one is to give everyone some standard rebate, not geared to a personal amount taxed, the 2nd being to personalize the rebate to the amount taxed. The 2nd way would require receipts.

[madville]

10. So if most people are getting rebates

What is this tax actually accomplishing in the end, the government is simply collecting money and then giving it back.

[dsc]

11. most people are

but that doesn't mean most of the money will be rebated. Now, there are two purposes of the tax, one is to discourage carbon use, the second to raise money. The first purpose would be unaffected.

[TheRealNorth]

6. Disinformation?

[Haggard Celine]

3. I think I read here the other day that

the Arizona Democratic Party gave a vote of no confidence to Sinema. I don't think she cares, though. I think she's using her Senate seat as a springboard for other opportunities. She's gotten lots of money from big pharma already. I expect that shit from Republicans, but it makes me sick to see a Democrat act like that.

[fescuerescue]

5. It was just a campaign promise

After election, you do the best you can.

The reality is that taxes have to go up for everyone if we are going to save the planet.

[madville]

7. Things like carbon and corporate taxes will of course trickle down to the consumer

of their products/services. If you tax an electric utility 5% for carbon, they'll just factor that into their rates that the customers pay. But then if you give a huge portion of their customers a rebate of some kind to offset their increased rates, what exactly are you accomplishing?

[dsc]

8. and I have no problem with that as part of a mix of taxes

and politically I think that would be more acceptable, but as the one and only tax this will be a disaster.

[MichMan]

12. It won't accomplish anything

If we are truly committed to mitigating the effects of climate change, we will all have to play our part to reduce our own fossil fuel usage. Things like the Paris Climate accord with no enforcement and China or India refusing to sign on won't cut it.

Unless people feel pain everytime they fill up their vehicle at $5-6/gal. or open their electric/gas bill, they will continue to drive their big truck or SUV everywhere and run their AC 24/7. Having a carbon tax and then rebating it just means people will continue their behaviors as usual.

[BruceWane]

9. AZ Democrats are thinking like you....

AZ Democratic party passed a resolution Saturday that they will hold a no-confidence vote against Sinema if she votes against the reconciliation bill or filibuster reforms.

[qazplm135]

13. She doesn't want a reconciliation bill

She can't oppose it directly so she just opposes the only viable funding source.