brazen shoplifting while people stand around and watch

[Demovictory9]

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/shoplifters-calmly-fill-arms-and-walk-out-of-marshalls-store-on-camera/2701896/

[Sympthsical]

1. Welcome to California, how can we help you?

Nevermind, you can help yourself.

It's a really big problem here, sadly. Employees are told not to intervene for liability reasons. And because shoplifting under $950 is a misdemeanor, the cops won't bother most of the time because the prosecutors don't always care. It has become a big why bother with law enforcement.

So, this goes on.

It's almost not even news anymore.

I love the disingenuous, "Why didn't the store report this?!"

Because they know nothing will come of it, so why even bother. Just write off the loss. And when the store closes, everyone will ask why.

[radius777]

2. That's terrible and makes blue states/cities look bad,

as it allows conservatives to frame Dems as 'soft on crime' (like Reagan/Bush did in the 80s).

Glad the tough (but fair and reform minded) Eric Adams will be the next NYC mayor. Most voters don't like crime and chaos, regardless of party.

[SunSeeker]

4. Proposition 47 did not end prosecution of thefts under $950 in California

"Proposition 47 did not end prosecution of thefts under $950 in California" https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-160551360299

Please don't repeat right wing talking points here.

[harumph]

6. No, but it reduced the punishments for said shoplifting

which reasonably may be interpreted as incentivizing theft.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

17. Punishments aren't deterrence; likelihood of being caught is.

[SunSeeker]

25. Not significantly. It just made the misdemeanor limit catch up with inflation.

It is still illegal to steal, and petty thefts are prosecuted. You're repeating a right wing talking point.

[Zeitghost]

15. Not legally

But practically, it did.

[SunSeeker]

26. The right wing talking point you're repeating is encouraging theft.

Repeating the false claim that petting theft is not prosecuted encourages them and causes store owners to not bother reporting theft.

[Zeitghost]

34. I defend the truth

No matter who it is convenient or inconvenient for. I am a lifelong California resident and I know what I can see with my own eyes.

Continuing to deny this problem is the true danger and the real boon to the right. Please stop.

[SunSeeker]

40. You are not defending the truth. It is not true that petty theft isn't prosecuted in CA.

That is a false, right wing talking point that was pushed during the Republican Recall Campaign against Governor Newsom.

What I see with my own eyes as a 44 year resident of CA is that some businesses are choosing not to report petty theft because it's easier just to write off small inventory losses than involve employees as witnesses in criminal prosecutions. Cops come when you call them where I live here in Southern California. But some businesses just aren't calling them for small thefts.

Despite all these hair-on-fire stories about petty theft that fill right wing media, and now DU, property crimes have actually gone down 7.7% in California. https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bonta-releases-2020-california-criminal-justice-statistics

Property crime in four of California’s major cities, San Francisco, Oakland, Los Angeles and San Diego, fell by 17%, when comparing the first two months in 2020 to the same time period in 2021. This was driven by a significant (34%) drop in larcenies, which includes car break-ins, shoplifting, and pickpocketing. Residential burglaries also declined by roughly 6%. https://www.ppic.org/blog/californias-major-cities-see-increases-in-homicides-and-car-thefts/

As noted at that PPIC link, what has gone up is car theft (no doubt spurred by the fact that the price of used cars has shot up 40% since last year!) and homicides. But the spike in car thefts and homicides is not limited to California. Connecticut, for example, saw a 40% increase in car thefts and homicides. https://www.wfsb.com/news/new-fbi-data-says-homicides-car-thefts-are-up-by-about-40-percent/article_66cd8b7a-2099-11ec-afd2-436e2f6e17c9.html#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20data%20released,crime%20overall%20dropped%20last%20year.

Crime is not just a California thing.

[SunSeeker]

3. Those purses could have easily totalled over $950, yet the store DID NOT REPORT THE CRIME!

This has nothing to do with California or Newsom or cops not wanting to enforce the law.

If you watch the video at the link in the OP, BYSTANDERS called the police with the thieves' license plate numbers and the COPS CAME to investigate, but the store never reported the crime. And the store has not said why it hasn't reported the crime.

Proposition 47 did not end prosecution of thefts under $950 in California. https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-160551360299 Please don't repeat bullshit right wing talking points here.

[cinematicdiversions]

5. Okay then why is this a problem somewhat unique to california.

I think my local Sherriff's office is a often a Covid infected Proud Boy hellhole. But I can assure you there is no brazen shoplifting or lawlessness of that type. It really makes a difference in the quality of life for the people living here.

And I have no doubt that being tough on shoplifting goes a long way to reduce assault, rape and murder and otehr crimes often committed by those emboldened.

[Ohio Joe]

7. So...

Shoplifting is a gateway crime to rape and murder? Where have I heard that reasoning before... hmmm... Let me think...

[cinematicdiversions]

8. Well criminal gangs are a gateway to additional criminal behavior.

The problem is if you allow people to steal catalytic convertors, steal copper from HVAC units, shoplift from stores, Take people out of wheelchairs and steal their wheelchairs. All without any punishment or enforcement. Some of them (not all) will become more brazen as time goes on.

We have seen plenty of store clerks in California murdered in broad daylight. This simply isn't as common where laws are enforced.

As you can see below, it can get out of hand quickly

[Ohio Joe]

14. ahh... Moved onto 'criminal gangs'...

Did it hurt moving those goalposts? Gotta stop those low level crimes huh? Let me guess... Stop and frisk for that? I remember how that worked out.

[cinematicdiversions]

19. Shoplifting Gangs are the subject of the OP.

This is not a couple of teenagers lifting some make-up from a drug store. This is gangs of people targeting business for easy to resell higher end goods.

[Ohio Joe]

20. No... It is not, that is simply not true...

The video in the OP talks about two separate incidents each involving one person, no mention of gangs.... Go ahead and watch it again.... I'll wait... Done? Good. Nobody said or implied anything about gangs, not in the video or the thread until you did in order to change from shoplifters.

Now that we are on the same page, still care to defend shoplifting is a gateway crime to rape and murder?

[SunSeeker]

22. The problem is not unique to CA. nt

[madville]

36. It's primarily a large city problem due to the dense populations living in poverty and/or addiction

And also add in the lack of mental health services for the homeless people. The same things happen in Seattle, Chicago, NYC, Atlanta, Minneapolis, Houston, Denver, etc.

I spent 2017-2019 primarily in the SF Bay Area, Oakland mostly, and traveled to LA and Seattle regularly for business. The retail stores in the downtown areas of those places are not like most of the rest of the country, I was surprised the stores still even let customers inside in some of the areas, the areas they haven't completely left yet anyway.

[Luciferous]

33. Nope, this is a problem everywhere. I live in a nice suburb in Wisconsin and we have

the same problem.

[Amishman]

9. police have deprioritized responding and prosecutors seem uninterested

Shoplifting is a very low tier offense in CA, and law enforcement is both short staffed and dealing with the rise in crime of all types.

Los Angeles county DA George Gascon has been very public in his strategy of not prosecuting minor offenses. For those who are prosecuted, his office has largely moved away from cash bail.

Boudin in SF is under 50% for prosecution rate. Keep in mind the prosecution rate only considers cases where a suspect is identified and charges are filed.

[leftyladyfrommo]

12. We have a horrible car and truck theft here in KCMO.

Actually they steal everything not locked down.

The police don't respond. They can't get there fast enough. People just call their reports in.

[SunSeeker]

21. Exactly. Crime is country wide.

It's not just a blue state thing.

[SunSeeker]

27. The problem is reporting is not happening. Cops come when you call.

If you don't call, they don't come and nobody gets prosecuted.

[gldstwmn]

29. Probably because the store sells

counterfeit items to begin with. Every once in a while I see something that looks real but not those handbags in the video.

[SunSeeker]

30. LOL Well that would certainly explain their reluctance to bring attention to the purses.

[Amishman]

31. the cops coming isn't my point, it is what happens after that is the problem

police arrive after the suspect is long gone.
The offense is a low priority, so the case isn't worked much by the police
Few arrests are made for these types of crimes
DA's office drops most of the cases where they do arrest someone
The stolen property is rarely recovered

Given the time and disruption involved in getting the police the information they need for the police report, and the low likelihood of anything coming of it, I can certainly see why there is a disincentive to even calling

[Captain Zero]

41. My experience calling cops for people looting cars

This is in past three years.
Twice I called cops who, of course, got there after the guys who were going through cars had left.
Like 4 cop cars responded.
One starts taking some notes, acts like he doesn't want to talk to everyone.
The others stand around and look around a little.

One car gets a beep-beep call, officer gets on radio phone.
Jumps back in his car, speeds off.
ALL OFFICERS JUMP IN THEIR CARS AND SPEED OFF.
Any of us who wanted to talk to them and report on the problem we are just standing there like chopped liver.

My guess is that wherever they sped off to got this same treatment for their report/problem, maybe unless there was a dead body at the next scene, maybe they'd stick around for that.

[Sympthsical]

11. I knew there'd be this

"Your eyes are right-wing talking points!" Some permutation of this is always said despite the fact these incidents happen again and again and again and again. Stories like the one in the OP are in the news constantly. Have you seen San Francisco? I have. This shit's all over the place. My local Safeway's got a guy who comes in for free beer once or twice a week. No one does anything.

No one said anything about Newsom. In fact, I believe he just signed a law not too long ago trying to deal with the theft rings that are responsible for some of this. It makes these thefts a felony if it's found you did it to benefit an organized criminal shoplifting enterprise. That might nip some of it in the bud, but again, stores and police and prosecutors have to move on things. They just don't much of the time.

In this case, police showed up after the fact and they have something to go on - that license plate number. A lot of the time, especially in the city areas, people just walk in and out. In one infamous incident that went viral, a guy rode his bike into the store.

Do you think Newsom was signing that law if it wasn't a problem? Do you think stores like Target, Walgreens, and CVS are closing or reducing hours for giggles?

I never get why people try to sweep this stuff under the rug. Just noting, "Hey guys, this kind of crime seems common and isn't great," always gets this knee-jerk, "That's what the right-wing wants you to think!" response. Baffling.

Ya know, I live here, I see the shit. I know my local stores deal with this, and I'm in a suburb. It's not limited to the cities. It's everywhere.

People don't like it. It's bad for our business and bad for our state and cities' image.

[SunSeeker]

23. It's not a California thing. That is a right wing talking point.

Crime is everywhere.

[joetheman]

10. Looks like a typical organized crime group that will re-sell the take.

In our state, MD, it is typical Russian organized criminals who sell to and or rob from gated communities. The organized crimes go mostly uncovered by the media because they are mostly white run. Petty theft are reported on mostly minorities in the inner cities but in the burbs little is reported and hardly any charges or arrests are made.

One of the big reasons the RWingers are against crime reporting funding and improvement across the nation. And violent crime reporting including murder is out of the question. No crime bill will pass this Senate with provisions for funding of crime reporting.

[leftyladyfrommo]

13. Everybody here in my neighborhood complains that

the police have been defunded and now only go out on serious stuff.

They haven't been defunded. We just need more officers to help knock down neighborhood crime.

[LiberatedUSA]

16. Missouri isn't California.

Victims do not need a license to carry and they can stand their ground on neighborhood crime.

Though you live in the city. A different world than I live in in the same state. We don’t worry about rioters here; the locals would deal with vandalism, destruction and brazen theft very quickly.

It is why I didn’t worry about the out of control rioting in 2020. Rioters know what would happen in rural areas of the country, so they stick to destroying cities.

[leftyladyfrommo]

18. We don't have stand your ground here. And it's illegal

to fire a weapon in the city. We don't have a bunch of rioters here. Some small stuff happens occasionally but there is rarely any violence and people go back home. There was some trouble on the Plaza months ago but it didn't amount to much.

If there's anything we don't need it's vigilante justice.

It's not violence we are having trouble with. It's professional thieves. They catch a few but they are too fast. They can steal a catalytic converter in broad daylight in 4 minutes flat. They steal cars and trucks all over town. Nothing not locked down is safe.

I guess I don't understand your point.

[Celerity]

24. sounds like it might be an inside job w/ store management as Marshalls still hasn't even reported it

[gldstwmn]

28. The "designer" merch at Marshalls

generally look fake to me.

[Oneironaut]

32. They're stealing from a massive corporation. Meh...

Not that it’s ok, but, Marshall’s is not going to go under because a couple people are shoplifting. It’s not worth your life or safety to protect a soulless corporation that probably underpays and abuses its workers. Chasing shoplifters into the parking lot like that is not something anyone should do.

[hunter]

35. Our local Goodwill Store Warehouse sells stuff by weight.

That's similar to how Marshall's accounts for it.

It's wrong to steal stuff from Goodwill or Marshall's but not worth defending that stuff with physical violence.

Huge amounts of consumer goods don't even make it to the thrift stores or Marshall's, going instead directly to the landfills.

[Demovictory9]

37. true enough. but it's against the social contract to watch others walk out with stuff when you pay

your hard earned money to pay for the same stuff.

[ripcord]

38. Shoplifters like this have no respect for others or themselves.

[maxsolomon]

39. It happens everywhere.

Crowd-shoplifters took advantage of the BLM unrest to empty the Bellevue Square Mall in WA. It was organized, with vans meeting thieves at agree-upon transfer points (one was in front of a co-worker's house). Armloads of high-end purses and such, luxury goods on the main. Fungible.

I am at a loss to explain, condemn, or excuse it. It seems very contemporary, an evolution of shoplifting using social media and overwhelming numbers. I was irritated that it corrupted the message of BLM.

I'm not sure I care that much, as my ox is not being gored.