There appear to be people in power who embrace the non-vax "herd immunity" idea.

[MineralMan]

I'm thinking of Governors DeSantis and Noem. Their obstructive strategies regarding mask and vaccination mandates seem to indicate that they believe "Let 'em get sick and become immune that way. So what if a few people die..."

You don't hear those folks speaking outright about encouraging people just to let themselves get sick, but that seems to be what is behind their otherwise inexplicable policies.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how it looks to me.

[getagrip_already]

1. maybe I'm wrong here....

But I've heard that ~30% of people who have had covid, don't show antibodies and aren't protected. Multiple infections are fairly common.

If that is true, is herd immunity even possible?

[MineralMan]

2. I don't know if herd immunity is possible, frankly.

Neither do those politicians. If herd immunity is their plan, though, it's based not on science but on politics.

What is missing is the three quarters of a million people who have already died from COVID-19. They do not seem to bother those politicians, all of whom have been vaccinated themselves, no doubt.

[Johnny2X2X]

6. You are correct in that many don't produce antibodies

You can fight off mild Covid with inflammation and fever where your body never produces antibodies. That person would have no immunity to Covid when they encounter it again. The vaccine offers better protection that natural immunity.

And on top of that, there's a ton of people walking around who think they had Covid when they never tested for it.

[womanofthehills]

16. Prestigious Nature.com magazine article

NEWS
26 May
Had COVID? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime
People who recover from mild COVID-19 have bone-marrow cells that can churn out antibodies for decades, although viral variants could dampen some of the protection they offer. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9

[Zeitghost]

30. "The vaccine offers better protection that natural immunity."

This is simply not true and the rate of reinfections vs breakthroughs, among other data points is proof of that.

Being vaxxed, even if you have had COVID, is still a great idea as improves immunity even more. But the idea that vaxed immunity is better than natural immunity is simply not true.

[Johnny2X2X]

3. I've flipped to FOX several times in the last year

They consistently have told their audience that "natural" immunity is better than vaccine immunity even though that is not the case. You've got millions of people running around out there thinking they are protected because they had a cold in early 2020.

FOX misinforms on Covid in every way. Every aspect has been lied about from prevention to treatment, to the death toll.

[womanofthehills]

17. Natural immunity is good according to many top doctors

Johns Hopkins Dr. Marty Makary



EXCERPT FROM WALL STREET JOURNAL



The news about the U.S. Covid pandemic is even better than you’ve heard. Some 80% to 85% of American adults are immune to the virus: More than 64% have received at least one vaccine dose and, of those who haven’t, roughly half have natural immunity from prior infection. There’s ample scientific evidence that natural immunity is effective and durable, and public-health leaders should pay it heed.



Only around 10% of Americans have had confirmed positive Covid tests, but four to six times as many have likely had the infection. A February study in Nature used antibody screenings in late summer 2020 to estimate there had been seven times as many actual cases as confirmed cases. A similar study, by the University of Albany and New York State Department of Health, revealed that by the end of March 2020—the first month of New York’s pandemic—23% of the city’s population had antibodies. That share necessarily increased as the pandemic spread.



Natural immunity is durable. Researchers from Washington University in St. Louis reported last month that 11 months after a mild infection immune cells were still capable of producing protective antibodies. The authors concluded that prior Covid infection induces a “robust” and “long-lived humoral immune response,” leading some scientists to suggest that natural immunity is probably lifelong. Because infection began months earlier than vaccination, we have more follow-up data on the duration of natural immunity than on vaccinated immunity.
https://citizenfreepress.com/column-2/the-power-of-natural-covid-immunity/

[Zeitghost]

31. That is absolutely the truth

It's not a reason to skip being vaccinated, but it is absolutely true.

[Mad_Machine76]

4. I think

it is more about prolonging the pandemic to damage Biden/Democrats politically and/or to play to Trump's MAGA base that doesn't want to have to *do* anything to end the pandemic. Anybody truly believing in "herd immunity" as a viable strategy for ending this pandemic is just reckless/irresponsible JMHO and it's scary how close we came to actually adopting that strategy (had Trump won in 2020). And just remember, too, they don't really believe that the best way to end the pandemic is to catch the virus because all of them stayed sheltered last year and as soon as they could went and got vaxxed. They seem to have made the calculation that playing to the desires of their base- even if it kills some of them- are worthwhile to win big in 2022 (although that might not work so well if a lot of their own voters get sick or die) and ascend to the top of the 2024 GOP primary heap.

[gab13by13]

9. Exactly,

so what if a few unwashed have to die to own the libs? I bet DeSantis and Noem are vaccinated which would mean they don't have faith in herd immunity.

[Botany]

5. Governor DeSantis went to Yale and then went on to get his J.D. from Harvard, he is not a dumb man.

He knows his policies are actively spreading the disease, suffering, and deaths. He knows that masks
work (see Vietnam) and that vaccines work (see Iceland) but for some reason or other he has become
a vector of scientific misinformation and spreading illness. The only question is why?

[MineralMan]

8. Politics is why.

I'm not saying he is stupid. He knows that what he is doing is harmful. He just doesn't care. He got his vaccine.

[Botany]

10. I think these GOP Governors and Fox News (and its clones) are spreading the disease ....

.... not only to make Joe Biden look bad but to use the human and economic suffering and
its causality of social divisions as a path to political and economic power.

I think that will come back to bite them on the ass in loss of their base and anger at all the
UNNEEDED suffering and death.

[MineralMan]

11. Well, if that's the case, then they are very stupid.

[peggysue2]

19. I think this is closest to the truth

It's a way of continuing the chaos, unsettling the electorate and giving the MAGA voters one more thing to rage about. It's also a way to apply the brakes to President Biden's approval numbers before the midterms.

Think about it. Joe Biden carried through on what Trump started with the vaccine's Warp Speed production. Biden's Administration did an incredible job in a short period of time to distribute those vaccines. There's absolutely no reason why the vaccination rates suddenly plummeted except for the right-wing drumbeat, the anti-vaxx messaging raised to deafening levels. A continuation of the virus spread effects the economy. How many articles did we read about how the economy was snapping back, job growth was increasing, how we were on track to reach a GNP of an astounding 6+%. All the while Trump and his acolytes were moaning and groaning that Joe Biden was getting too much credit, that the vaccine was all about what Trump accomplished, not Joe Biden. McConnell is adding his own flourish by refusing to raise the debt limit, an attempt to bring the economy to its knees and increase the chaos boil.

As for the 700,000+ dead Americans, the healthcare system once again overwhelmed? That's the cost of winning, something these weasels have rationalized in their own minds and stirred into gross suspicion within their own voting bloc. There are frequent reports of the True Believers denying they have Covid up to and with their last breath, families threatening to sue hospitals that refuse to inject their loved ones with the cure du jour.

This is chaos politics played deliberately with other people's lives. There is no consideration for the health or continuation of the nation because the destruction of the nation is the end goal. Burn the house down then reshape it into the quasi-mafia state that Putin and all the other autocratic gangsters enjoy.

How can these so-called Republican leaders go along to get along? Because they believe in nothing beyond their own power base, influence and money.

Covid can be deadly and devastating. It's akin to the political infection running through the body politic, in the moment, right now, polluting everything in its wake.

These governors aren't stupid. They're part of the grift.

[Botany]

21. I can't put my finger on the exact reason on why "they" are doing this but I am sure it is ...

... very Machiavellian. Kind of along the lines of a Reichstag fire. However the disease is now going
through the idiot MAGA/right wing fundamentalist/proud to be stupid base like wildfire and it is looking
like the way to have an overwhelming victory is to hang C-19 and Trump around the GOP's neck.

[peggysue2]

22. I think the 'why' question is really difficult

Because it's so devoid of basic decency, of anything we'd refer to as 'American values.'

And yes, framing the political situation, hanging the Covid albatross around Republican necks (where it rightly belongs) is an issue that brings people to attention, makes us recall the true horror of what we've witnessed, continue to witness.

It's a horrifying saga.

[Botany]

23. As of mid April '21 we well on our way of putting this nightmare behind us but then the GOP, Fox,...

.... and a massive disinformation campaigns (Russia???) put a stop to that and we got radical
no vaxxers who instead of listening to experts like Dr. Fauci and Dr Rachel Wolinsky but to
some idiot on Facebook who told them that the real problem was the vaccine and the masks
not the disease and its viral mutations.

[peggysue2]

28. Exactly, Botany.

The virus could have been contained months ago. We could have avoided the delta-surge and been well on our way to national recovery.

The blame for the present situation is at the feet of the Angels of Death, Republicans all, who have fanned the conspiracy fires and ultimately killed more Americans.

It's the ultimate, horrific price of playing a zero-sum game in politics, everything reduced, discounted, devalued in order to win.

When, in fact, we all lose. Everything.

[Botany]

29. According to Dr Michael Osterholm these anti vax idiots have now allowed the virus to spread ...

... and mutate so it will never go away. I remember seeing some dumb ass red neck from Missouri
telling a CBS reporter that he would never get the vaccine because the vaccine producers withheld
the vaccine because they wanted Trump to look bad and besides the disease wasn't that bad. He was
in some little town in S.W. Missouri by Springfield, older, and obese and this was about 2 months ago
and the disease was burning through that area like wildfire so good chance he is dead now. Good.

[Nay]

14. The reason why they are doing this? Cruelty is the point. There are people who enjoy

being cruel to others, and the pinnacle of achievement for these sorts of people is being allowed to be cruel to millions.

[Sancho]

7. DeSatan is supported by antibody clonal companies...

...he doesn’t care who gets sick as long as millions are spent on treatments.

[haele]

12. I suspect it's a particular religious based conceit - the Elect will always be protected.

It's something I've noticed particularly in the Prosperity Gospel evangelical types. There's Gawd's Elect,and then there's everyone else who are basically profit-generating animals destined to fuel hell if they don't beg Gawd (and Gawd's Elect) hard enough; who deserve only as much respect or mercy a business would give a living commodity such as a pig or cow.
The pomp and posturing are more important than actually doing anything; after all, they are the Elect. And they will walk with Jesus to eternal glory, eternally forgiven, before the world ends for everyone else. COVID is just one of the tribulations to test the gap between those going to Heaven and those destined for Hell.
If one of them gets sick and dies, it's because Gawd wanted them sooner - so the sooner the end of the world happens, the better for them.

Deep down, these are pretty much unhappy children who believe really, really hard that real life revolves around a Fun weekend Daddy who will just order mean Mommy or the invisible maid to clean up their messes after they're done playing and get rid of anyone who isn't their friend.

Haele

[Tomconroy]

13. We actually don't know a lot about natural immunity from

Covid. There are recent studies from Israel showing it to be robust and one that suggests natural immunity plus the vaccine gives you super immunity. You are obviously better off getting the vaccine but natural immunity will play a role in getting Covid behind us. And after covid',s summer of terror in places like Florida probably a lot of the unvaxxed picked up some immunity.

[womanofthehills]

18. I haven't seen any studies on "super immunity"

I’ve seen lots of questions about having natural & Vax antibodies but no answers about how your natural & Vax antibodies work together or if one overtakes the other. What is your info source?

[Tomconroy]

20. It's an Israeli study from this summer. I'm sure you can Google it.

[Tomconroy]

27. Here's an NPR article about it

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/09/07/1033677208/new-studies-find-evidence-of-superhuman-immunity-to-covid-19-in-some-individuals

[Walleye]

15. Most of us have had more than one common cold in our lifetime, it is a coronavirus

Whenever you get a bad cold and you go around other people what do they do? put out their hand cover their face, “stay away from me.” You get no sympathy, nobody tells you you’re immune from another cold, nobody tells you you can’t spread it.

[Wounded Bear]

24. Kill them all. Let god sort them out...

[Buckeye_Democrat]

25. They don't need to worry about their voters...

... if their ultimate plan is to disregard democracy.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

26. Herd immunity comes about when enough people are vaccinated to stop a virus

from spreading. NOT from enough people getting the disease. If it occurred from getting the disease, then herd immunity from smallpox would have been a thing, since most people exposed to it got it. Those who didn't die were immune for life, but were probably scarred, likewise for life. Then the vaccine happened, and eventually not only did herd immunity happen, but we were able to completely eradicate that disease.

Even if getting Covid once conferred permanent immunity, which it clearly doesn't, there will always be new people being born who haven't yet had it, which is while it will stick around.

The reason people get lots of colds in their lifetimes is that there are over 200 different cold viruses. Most colds are caused by a rhinovirus and after you recover from one of them, you are immune to that specific virus. That's why older people, like 73-year old me, get fewer and fewer colds as we age. I've had perhaps two colds in the past ten years.