General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMr. Krugman On Democratic 'Moderates'
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/27/opinion/biden-centrist-democrats.htmlOpinion
Paul Krugman
Biden Versus the Rip Van Winkle Caucus
Sept. 27, 2021
Beyond economics, in the 1990s many Democrats believed that they could mollify noncollege white voters through a combination of validating rhetoric denouncing Sister Souljah, talking tough on crime and cuts in programs widely perceived to mainly benefit Black people. Clinton really did end Aid to Families With Dependent Children, the program most people meant when they talked about the bums on welfare, without providing any real replacement.
But none of it worked. If racial antagonism had been driven by perceptions of inner-city disorder, it should have faded in the face of the spectacular decline in violent crime between the early 1990s and the mid-2010s. It didnt. If this antagonism reflected the perception that many able-bodied Black men who should have been working werent, it should have faded when the problem of prime-age men not working (and the social disruptions that appear to go along with lack of jobs) became as severe in overwhelmingly white rural areas as in inner cities. It didnt.
Instead, the voting behavior of white working-class voters seems more driven by racial resentment than ever. And such voters cant be won over by trimming back social spending; they want their racial hostility served raw. Trumpists can give them that; Democrats cant without effectively becoming Trumpists themselves.
In other words, if there was ever a time when individual Democratic members of Congress could hope to swim against the tide by positioning themselves to the right of their party, that time ended long ago. It doesnt matter how much they force Biden to scale back his ambitions; it doesnt matter how many pious statements they make about fiscal responsibility. Republicans will still portray them as socialists who want to defund the police, and the voters theyre trying to pander to will believe it.
NewHendoLib
(59,940 posts)So my plea to Democratic moderates is, please wake up. Were not in 1999 anymore, and your political fortunes depend on helping Joe Biden govern effectively.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,059 posts)Jon King
(1,910 posts)Its no fun being the minority party, none of their opinions will matter then. Might as well go all in with the Biden agenda and let the cards fall where they may.
Budi
(15,325 posts)I truly resent this style of division.
We may indeed have a few as does every caucaus & political group has their own who balk outside their own.
However, the Democratic Party includes many.
And we have a need for them all.
Otherwise we'd look like an extremist coalition.
We have been blessed with some very accommodating pols who hold a more moderate than extreme view of policy.
Same as Centrists. And Progressives.
Mr Krugman has been in this business long enough to know this.
What he attempts here is to carry water for those who wish to isolate an entire group of our Party by labelling them ALL as a washed up negative.
It's a big fking tent that is mirrored by our vast constituents.
You've pounded away via Media, on a couple of extreme examples & painted an entire group of Moderates as negative.
They are not.
Well Fk you too Mr Krugman & the bias propaganda you shove out as truth.
You are old enough to know better so do better.
...yay for the 'do less' wing of the party.
Budi
(15,325 posts)..outsiders & defined the entire coalition by the actions of the few.
Our best Dem Moderates have actually both written as well as moved policy to completion.
I've been waiting 5 yrs to see any policy written or brought to the floor & passed , that was the blasted mantra of others.
Nothing. Not even a piece of legislation has been written.
5byears later & its still a sligan.
So don't give us that 'do less wing of the Party' propaganda.
Better clean up your own caucaus before pointing that finger, there's still those 3 fingers pointing back at yourself, Mr Krugman
wellst0nev0ter
(7,509 posts)In that she actually seeks consensus and is willing to find a reasonable compromise instead of shooting for the leftist moon.
The rest of these people are simply posturing and playing Calvinball to the tune of thinly concealed big-moneyed interests.
Celerity
(42,638 posts)Budi
(15,325 posts)Apparantly 'Moderates' & 'Centrists' are the only ones repeatedly named in that broadbrushed intent of keeping division growing in our Party.
Glad you brought in Klobuchar. 💙👍
Does Krugman include her in his broadbrush?
It's difficult to tell since he targets Moderates et al.
He knows what he's doing.
bigtree
(85,915 posts)...less resources, less protection, less rights, less care.
Every godamn time we turn around.
But, yeah, Krugman's fingers must make them advocate for less.
KPN
(15,585 posts)I would ask, who is broad-brushing here?
A lot of vitriol aimed at progressives on the board today because they choose to take a stand for something.
Budi
(15,325 posts)Which Moderates? All Moderates? Two? Three? ALL?
This is the consistant theme in how he words his opinion pieces.
KPN
(15,585 posts)that make me wrong. .... Otherwise, you seem to want to generalize now. That's a whole different discussion that involves perceptions as opposed to facts. Not sure there's much productive in that.
He is clearly talking about the very small group of obstructionists (Manchin, Sinema, and the 11 renegade 'Problem Solvers' types in the House) who are trying to break the Biden agenda on the wheel.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,362 posts)They are doing their donors bidding, not their constituents, plain and simple. They are risking nothing.
It is the courageous moderates in true swing districts who are supporting Bidens full agenda by supporting the two track process to pass the bipartisan bill after the reconciliation bill passes first.
Demsrule86
(68,347 posts)bluewater
(5,376 posts)He was the lone democrat to vote with all the Republicans against bringing the reconciliation bill out of committee.
He has opposed allowing Medicare to negotiate with the drug companies for lower prices and he has taken large contributions from Big Pharma.
He is also from a safe blue house seat in California, according to the reliable Cooks Political Report.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,362 posts)https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/08/24/susan-wild-josh-gottheimer-house-democrats-infrastructure/
Here are the others, with their 2020 margins:
https://www.rollcall.com/2021/08/24/standoff-by-moderates-highlights-democratic-rift-but-will-it-affect-2022/
Carolyn Bourdeaux, Georgias 7th District - 2020 D+6
Ed Case, Hawaiis 1st District - D+33
Jim Costa, Californias 16th District - D+19
Jim Costa, Californias 16th District - D+19
Jared Golden, Maines 2nd District - D+6
Vicente Gonzalez, Texas 15th District - D+3
Josh Gottheimer, New Jerseys 5th District - D+8
Stephanie Murphy, Floridas 7th District - D+12
Kurt Schrader, Oregons 5th District - D+7
Filemon Vela, Texas 34th District - D+14
So, as you can see, Gottheimers gang, with maybe the exception of Gonzalez, are all in comfortably safe seats, so there is no reason for them to obstruct Bidens agenda, other than to reward their donors, who have been lobbying them intensively.
Meanwhile, moderates in swing districts who won in 2020 by very narrow margins, are sticking their necks out, putting the countrys needs before their donors, and supporting Bidens full agenda.
Solly Mack
(90,740 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)decades, equal but not less. The same for President Biden.
TEN members out of 224 house Democrats and 2 out of 50 senators (48 Democrats, 2 indies caucusing with Democrats) are holding up these bills. TWELVE out of 274. Hell, the conservative blue dog caucus has far more members than that, but most of them are with us.
Krugman and all the others who smear our entire congressional delegation by implying most are conservative-leaning "moderates" "right of their party" can go fuck themselves. I question their motives in spreading this anti-Democratic Party deceit, to put it mildly.
The Magistrate
(95,237 posts)And doing so accurately. The Progressive caucus has compromised a great deal. The handful of 'moderates' you speak of will not settle for equitable compromise, they insist on getting far more than their due share. They think they are the only people who should walk away from the table happy. If they were right about the political moment, that would be one thing. But they are dead wrong about what the best course is. The full Reconciliation bill proposed by President Biden is the proper course, and what the 'moderates' seem insistent on will bring electoral disaster. Which the country cannot afford.
Celerity
(42,638 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)together as "moderates." It's not innocent. The Blue Dogs and Pelosi ideologically together?! (She's famous for her lifelong fight for her strong liberal progressive ideals.) Many stories also throw liberal Democrats in with moderate Republicans as "moderates." Whenever it fits their purpose.
The only Democrats they don't taint by association with conservatives are the farther left liberal Progressive caucus, 95 out of 224.
But others taint them by associating them with various anti-Democratic far-left elements outside the party, who also call themselves Progressives but have very different, usually hostile agendas.
And it's working -- everyone here should know that out of 224 house Democrats probably 210 support Biden's agenda. How CAN that be if the 95 New Dems being called "moderates" are opposed?
And in the senate 48 out of 50 support Biden's agenda.
We're being smeared by disinformation from both sides as 2022 and 2024 approach. And it's caught on.
The Magistrate
(95,237 posts)They seem to me apt and clear. The idea a Democrat can succeed individually by, shall we say, establishing him or herself as a bit to the right of those 'DC Democrats' persists in zombie state, but for more than a decade now has consistently failed in practice. To the degree that a member of the Democratic caucus obstructs President Biden from the right, from the water-it-down and do-less side, under the impression this will be to their individual political benefit, they are the persons Mr. Krugman describes, and who I condemn. If they are on board with President Biden whole-hog, they can anchor themselves anywhere they please politically, and no one from the left is criticizing them.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)liberal Democrats.
Every election we've lost has been because enemies succeeded in redefining political vocabulary to destroy belief in us.
Marthe48
(16,688 posts)n/t
Ford_Prefect
(7,817 posts)That is where we are NOW. Pretending that doing a little less is enough won't save us.
Who exactly do those particular moderates feel may be left behind This Time???
spanone
(135,632 posts)themaguffin
(3,805 posts)BeckyDem
(8,361 posts)The GOP has become an insurgent outlier in American politics. It is ideologically extreme; scornful of compromise;
unmoved by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition.
When one party moves this far from the mainstream, it makes it nearly impossible for the political system to deal constructively with the countrys challenges.
https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/lets-just-say-it-the-republicans-are-the-problem/
leftstreet
(36,076 posts)KPN
(15,585 posts)party who are putting democracy at risk during this most perilous time. They are putting self ahead of service to our country. Shame on them! Shame on those who defend them.
greatauntoftriplets
(175,694 posts)K&R.
Hekate
(90,189 posts)pecosbob
(7,502 posts)We will remember
The Magistrate
(95,237 posts)Always a shame when it does, but it has come to that.
"Which side are you on, boys, which side are you on?"