An easy, no cost way to reduce right-wing extremism in the military and veterans

[maxrandb]

The DOD needs to remove Faux News and Hate Radio propaganda from the Armed Forces Broadcast network.

Look, I've been at Navy commands where some dipshit, wingnut, Retrumplican fuckstick Department Head, Leading Chief Petty Officer, or Leading Petty Officer have mandated that the TV in common areas be tuned to Faux News.

Hell, I walked into the base gym in Lemoore, CA in 2002. Gym had 5 TVs, all tuned to Fox News.

That shit, and radio programs like Zombie Rush, Hannity, Beck and Savage have no business being broadcast to the military.

My brother was radicalized from driving a delivery truck and listening to Hate Radio all day. Like an addict, he started on Hate Radio and eventually ended up on the Alex Jones crack-pipe.

I don't need to imagine what this propaganda can do to the military, I've seen it firsthand.

I am glad I retired, or I'd be going to Courts Martial for throwing Dogging Wrenches through television sets.

[The Magistrate]

1. It Would Be Wise, Sir

[Maraya1969]

47. Here is their phone and contact information. Maybe we all should let them know.

1-800-698-2411 Edit - this is the wrong number. It is to the VA
How do I email the Department of Defense?

Contacts. News media representatives with questions for the Department of Defense may reach the DOD Press Office by calling [phone] or by sending e-mail to [e-mail]. A duty press officer is available by phone 24 hours a day.


https://dodcio.defense.gov/Contact/



EDIT: I found this also from NPR: "NPR compiled a list of individuals facing federal or District of Columbia charges in connection with the events of Jan. 6. Of more than 140 charged so far, a review of military records, social media accounts, court documents and news reports indicate at least 27 of those charged, or nearly 20%, have served or are currently serving in the U.S. military. To put that number in perspective, only about 7% of all American adults are military veterans, according to the U.S. Census Bureau."

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/21/958915267/nearly-one-in-five-defendants-in-capitol-riot-cases-served-in-the-military

[lambchopp59]

66. Done, and emailed pentagon link to family to do so as well.

Both my surviving ex-military relatives have expressed this exact concern. Both Democrats, they have very few maintained contacts with their ex-service buddies due to this exact brainwashing syndrome they witnessed.

[Hoyt]

2. Honestly, don't think people are radicalized by white wing radio/TV.

Have to lean that way to be "radicalized."

[Walleye]

6. Maybe not radicalized, but heavily reinforced

[Alexander Of Assyria]

7. No, radicalized is correct. Hate speech is targeted propaganda, the bullseyes are

all those sad folk too stupid to know they are stupid, or so mentally unstable a couple of nudges pushes them over the cliff.

4 nightmare years just past ought to prove the point.

[BlueJac]

8. When that is all you hear, you can't hear anything else!

[Hoyt]

9. If it is all they hear, they are hanging around the wrong people. They need to do a better job

of weeding out enlistees.

[Hulk]

33. Red rural ameriKKKa hears ONLY reich wing media

I have driven east to west and back across the US, I've driven 8+ times from central Mexico to Oregon....and I re-iterate: Once you leave major metro areas, ALL YOU GET is fox, reich wing or evangelical bat-shit noise. That is pumped in their heads, with NO contrasting media.

ALL motels and hotels have fox-propaganda in the line up, and often in the lobby and breakfast areas. Damn few offer MSNBC, or ZERO with Free Speech TV.

This is why rural ameriKKKa is red. They aren't all stupid or racist, anymore than we city slickers are; but when you ONLY hear the voice of reich wing hate and misinformation....you become "indoctrinated", and you are warned to avoid opposing information...just like we were threatened with visiting a protestant church when growing up Catholic.

It ain't their fault. It's ALL THEY HEAR.

[Tumbulu]

41. YES!!!!!

This is all they hear and why are we still having to argue about this after what has gone on?

Why has this been so ignored? This has been going on for 35 years now, and still, Bloomberg and all these political campaigns ignore this.

I agree with the OP that the cheapest way to fix it is to get rid of it polluting the minds of those most vulnerable.

[pfitz59]

65. My sons were raised in Blue coastal cities, grew up hearing Liberal voices.

I took them on a road trip to Indiana and back. They were appalled at the AM radio selections.... Rush, Rush, Rush and Rush clones. For 5 thousand miles, round trip! Eaves-dropping on conversations at diners and Cracker Barrels became a sport. The 'Libtard Hate' was everywhere. A very different America. We were all relived upon our return to Seattle.

[Hulk]

71. Exactly!

This is my point. Progressive media doesn't reach these Americans. They hear one voice of misinformation and lies...vile gQp propaganda.

The DNC needs to pick up the tab for progressive radio across rural America. If they don't...no one will. And it will lead to our peril as a nation.

[lambchopp59]

67. Amen to this

I also have to occasionally drive long distances through the southwest and become enraged at the sensible radio-free zones. I'll give RW radio credit for helping to keep me awake on long drives, but making sure I've taken my blood pressure pill to do so.
I've lost count of how many times I've listened to some diatribe from unexceptionally angry-sounding pundits, always goes like this:
Pundit makes point 1: methinks: "okay, sounds reasonable"
point 2: " a bit jaded, but ooookay..."
point 3: "what idiotic listener can't perceive he's just totally jumped the train of logic here, dammit?!"
Once the pundit just starts pounding in the illogical conclusion, I'm awake and done listening to the drivel.
Recent example:
1: "Everybody in California buying electric cars"
2: "But they have to charge the battery and don't they know it all comes from fossil fuel generators?"
3: (as pundit pontificates on about "liberal futility" of that point) I'm driving past a huge housing project in the California desert all with solar panels reflecting the sun.
Okay I'm awake now, back to my music player.

[robbob]

36. If propaganda didn't work...

why would they spend so much money slinging it?

[Hoyt]

39. Has the white wing media ever changed your position on anything? Not me.

You have to be susceptible to that junk.

[Tumbulu]

42. Yes, and almost everyone is susceptible when driving trucks

or doing other labor with a radio on.

This should not need to be argued about.

The OP is correct .

[Hoyt]

52. Never changed my mind when I drove a truck.

[Tumbulu]

63. Well good for you

I really do not understand your point.

You don’t seem to believe anything anyone had to say about this.

[Hoyt]

70. Well, my experience is that white wingers don't become that way from listening to radio/tv.

They listen because they are white wingers.

Now, if you or some other DUer turns on white wing radio and becomes a raving trumpster, please let me know and I might modify my opinion.

[Tumbulu]

72. I would say that your experience is muted

And that by refusing to believe the stories of other members who have been telling personal experiences on the matter for decades now, you lose out on expanding a point of view.

So, my experience is different than yours. And to ignore the political ramifications of this kind of propaganda blasted out to service members in their workplace remains suicidal.

It was funded by Republican operatives 4 decades ago. And it has proven to be highly effective.

It should never have been ignored or dismissed.

[robbob]

53. The point is,

There are many, many people who are “susceptible to that junk”, and there is absolutely no reason to be forcing service men/woman to listen to that treasonous swill.

[SouthernDem4ever]

48. you underestimate the gullibility and ignorance of many people

[Hoyt]

51. Are you gullible? I'm not and I bet the vast majority of Democrats and Dem

leaning people aren’t either.

Either one is a vile bigot or not. Fox News, etc., won’t make one a trumpster.

[dlk]

55. Unfortunately, when it comes to our brains

If we hear something often enough, it becomes part of our memories and we tend to begin to believe it, whether it’s true or not.

[Hoyt]

56. Live in the South, hear a lot of stuff I don't agree with. I'm assuming you

don’t believe a lot of stuff you hear (like this maybe). I think those that believe in white wing BS were like that before hearing it. I don’t think most people are as stupid as some here do when it comes to determining truth and BS. Now whether they care, is a different discussion.

In any event, if enough military members objected, the FOX news would be changed or something non-political would be displayed.

[dlk]

57. It's called the Illusory Truth Effect

There’s evidence people tend to believe false information if they hear it repeated often enough.

[Hoyt]

58. But you have to be a tuned to that crud to listen repeatedly. Robert Kennedy, had he

lived, wouldn’t have listened to that junk “repeatedly.”

Did you have to hear Rush Limbaugh, trump, Miller, etc., “repeatedly” before you tuned them out?

The only one’s listening to that crud are proud — or latent — white wingers.

Not sure what “effect” you call that.

[dlk]

60. I know what you've saying

Unlike you, some people are just much more susceptible to propaganda, and only a light rinse in needed for their brainwashing.

[Hoyt]

61. Can't deny some people are susceptible. Plus, even one or two % is significant

nowadays. I get it.

[olegramps]

68. I have numerous relatives in the South. They already thrive on racism. It only provide justification

However, I do believe that it can inspire more violence. It begins were early in childhood and young children spew the same hatred as their parents who encourage it by their own actions and total lack of condemnation of overt hatred. Although there has been improvement, it actually reserved for the public area. At home and when confined to friends and family is overt. To object in this arena will result in expulsion and ridicule such as being called a "N" lover and even physical attacks. The result is that even though people from young kids to adults who are not racist remain silent in order for acceptance. It is a very hard nut to crack.

[Permanut]

3. K & R from a Navy vet..

Thanks for posting; It's important for us to know how far the cancer has spread.

I didn't see any of this in the 60's; of course i was riding around on a tin can in the Atlantic with no TV. And no cell phones, no email, no computers, you know, the dark ages.

[CrackityJones75]

29. Saw plenty of it in the 90's

[summer_in_TX]

62. It barely existed anywhere in the '60s.

Ownership laws kept the number of stations owned by the same corporation down. There were laws requiring over-the-air broadcasters to serve their communities by ascertaining the issues of importance and then providing them with the opportunity to hear contrasting views on those issues. They were required to meet public interest standards.

License renewal was every three years, so there was an opportunity to hold bad actors accountable. Especially whip

But mainly there wasn't the consolidation of ownership that now allows toxic garbage to be spewed out to infect a lot of people. A local station might put out racist garbage but it was limited to that locale. No internet!

[panader0]

4. The mention of Lemoore brings back memories.

I had a civilian job there as a contractor removing old furniture and installing new stuff
in the barracks. They sure have a lot of morning fog there, And I think the highest land around
was the highway overpasses.

[maxrandb]

10. Yeah, when people here on the East Coast talk about fog

I tell them; "you don't know fog".

The central valley in CA is the only place where my kids schools had fog delays. I can remember driving Hanford-Armona Rd in the morning and having to turn down the radio, roll down the windows and listen for traffic before going through an intersection.

When they cancelled or delayed flight ops, we used to say; " all weather aircraft, fair weather pilots".

[bluesbassman]

11. The entire Central Valley. Lived in Denair for a year.

Couldn’t say how many times the tule fog would be so thick I couldn’t see past the hood of my car. Scary part was people would still drive down Highway 99 and I-5 doing 60-70 mph in it. Insanity.

[LuckyLib]

30. I'd drive at 35 mph with hazard lights flashing, sure I

was going to be rear-ended at anytime. Fog right up against your windshield.

[maxrandb]

40. At night was the worst

It was like trying to drive with sheets on your windows.

I remember hearing about multiple deaths due to a 70+ vehicle pileup near Visalia. I never understood how that could happen until I drove in the tule fog myself. Seriously scary, white knuckle shit.

[CrispyQ]

5. That's an excellent idea. Ban it from our universities, too.

Our side has ignored & continues to ignore right-wing, hate radio. It's stupidity on our part & I don't get it.

My mother was radicalized when, after a spell of bad luck & bad decisions, she got a job where they listened to hate radio all afternoon. In about 18 months I hardly recognized her. All the problems in her life, & pretty much the world, were the fault of "the goddamned liberals," & the Blacks & Hispanics & gays & feminists. She passed in '07 & I often wonder if our relationship would have survived the Obama presidency. She would have loved Sarah Palin & the tea party & she would have been in my face about it. We were not on a good trajectory.

[LymphocyteLover]

15. Yes, exactly-- it's so frustrating!

So sorry to hear of your mother.

[pillbug]

12. Would an anti-extremism oath or amendment or affirmation (or, at least, a universal memo) help?

The US armed forces oath is: "'I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.' (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962)."

Sure, "joining an insurrectionist, paramilitary, white-nationalist so-called 'militia' is RIGHT OUT" is implied in the language re. "all enemies, foreign and domestic", but maybe this should be reinforced with an amended wording with more explicit language or a second oath or legal affirmation that all active & reserve forces could be forced to sign (or resign their commissions, etc.).

Failing that, the military could at least send every active & reserve forces a memo making all this unambiguously clear, and listing some samples of unacceptable white-supremacist, white-nationalist, Christian-nationalist, accelerationist, and/or fascist orgs: the KKK, Proud Boys, 3%, Boogaloo Bois, Patriot Prayer, etc. & et. al.

What do you think?

[maxrandb]

45. Folks are already rejected for enlistment or commissions for affiliation with hate groups

and I had multiple briefings and stand-down training sessions on how extremism, hate, racism, etc., are incompatible with military service and the Oath we all take.

Part of the problem is that disciplinary action is not usually taken until someone acts on their extremism.

That's why there needs to be a cleansing of this from the ranks.

The military has the names of those active duty folks that joined the Oath Keepers. They need to be brought up on charges.

Since there is currently no UCMJ Article that deals with extremist activity, you can use Art 92 (Failure to Obey an Order) and Art 134 (General Article that deals with anything detrimental to good order and discipline).

A lot of these military extremist are just "followers". If nothing happens to them, they will continue on and it will spread. Take a bunch to NJP, or Courts Martial and start taking money, rank and handing out Dishonorable, "Big Chicken Dinner" and Other than Honorable discharges, and the followers will learn that they better take a different path.

[seta1950]

13. You're so right

At the local Coumadin clinic where I take my husband, tv was loud and on faux news, I couldn’t take it, I asked the receptionist to turn it off or turn it down, it’s not been on that propaganda channel since, instead they have it on local tv channel. We have to speak up.

[LymphocyteLover]

14. WHY WHY WHY hasn't this been done already???

[mn9driver]

16. AFRTS was carrying conservative hate radio and TV when I was in-35 years ago.

Nothing has changed, except the variety and poison level has increased. Fox News didn’t even exist when the right wing brainwashing started.

[fescuerescue]

17. I think it's a little deeper than TV sets

[cbabe]

18. Blaring at airports, too.

I asked ticket agents to turn it off. They had no control but offered me a quiet room. Wonder if it is one of the reasons there are so many violent outbreaks on planes lately.

[BlueSky3]

19. You know,

there are universal remotes that fit on your key chain that allow you to turn a TV off at a distance….very useful in doctors’ office waiting rooms.

[FoxNewsSucks]

59. You can also get an IR dongle

that attaches to your phone and becomes a universal remote to change the channel.

Some public system setups disable channel changing by the TV, but you can still turn it off.

https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Wireless-Set-Top-Box-Conditioner-Projector/dp/B07ZQFNPFC/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=zaza%2Buniversal%2Bremote&qid=1634613472&sr=8-3&th=1

That has saved me from enduring so much bullshit for years.

[jaxexpat]

20. In 2001, Fox news was the only station on the base. My son in law was at

Spangdalem AFB, Germany and told me that Fox and Limbaugh were the openly preferred source of English speaking broadcast throughout the USAF. It was even required to be offered on the cable for off base housing. Lots of things were pretty obvious even then. The future was clearly going to be a challenge for progressives.

[jaxexpat]

21. In 2001, Fox news was the only station on the base. My son in law was at

Spangdalem AFB, Germany and told me that Fox and Limbaugh were the openly preferred source of English speaking broadcast throughout the USAF. It was even required to be offered on the cable for off base housing. Lots of things were pretty obvious even then. The future was clearly going to be a challenge for progressives.

[OMGWTF]

22. Fux News is banned in Australia and NZ for being a propaganda network.

[onenote]

37. Not true.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fox-news-banned-australia-new-zealand/

[Mr. Ected]

23. Hasn't FOX already been legally deemed to be "entertainment"

And not news?

Seems no one in the military would have a legal quarrel that they are being denied news reports if their channel is recognized to be opinion-based rhetoric.

Decades of fascist propaganda helped deform this nation.

[onenote]

38. No. Urban myth.

https://mtsu.edu/first-amendment/post/2194/dismissal-of-consumer-protection-suit-against-fox-news-affirmed

[NQAS]

24. Great idea

You mentioned your delivery truck driver brother. Do drivers for FedEx, UPS, Amazon, USPS, and the like have radios in their vehicles? If so, there's another place to "turn it off." Remove the radios.

[Bear Creek]

25. I've worked with exNavy

For 30 years and almost all of them fit your description to a T. All of them even after 30 years out of the Navy are still that way.

[Pepsidog]

26. This must be done. Fox is corrosive.

[CaptainTruth]

27. There is a rich & powerful right-wing propaganda machine in this country...

...that is brainwashing people for their own benefit (power & wealth) & we should be doing more to expose it & show people how they're being used as tools.

It's some of the most effective messaging I've found with right-wingers. "Why do you believe that? Because a very rich & very powerful right-wing propaganda machine wants you to believe it. They want to use you for their own gain & you're letting them do it. Stop being gullible. Stop being their tool. Stop letting them do it to you."

[Percy]

28. I agree completely. The way fox is set up is no different than brainwashing in cults.

I mean that seriously. Trigger an emotional response through fear and then offer a solution in the guise of saving America. In the case of fox and right wing radio they groom people to blame and to hate the favorite target at the moment - women, minorities, immigrants, progressives, whatever is convenient.

The military should be broadcasting any political programs at all regardless of the leaning. People can listen to that stuff on their own time if they want to.

Fox and right wing radio do radicalize people, as we're seeing right now. Listen to them long enough and after a while it's no different than brainwashing.

[maxrandb]

46. They are very good at radicalizing people

while convincing them that they came to their fucked up beliefs all by themselves.

"See, you're so smart, you don't need some rich, pampered elitist telling you what to believe" - Not rich, pampered, or elitist Tucker Carlson and Rush Limbaugh

[hadEnuf]

31. Fox and hate radio are radicalized right wing propaganda aimed at impressionable young men and women

The total idea of the military is compliance and 100% devotion to duty. No matter how phony it is, Fox and hate radio constantly praise the military and expound a bullshit sense of comradery with them, while radically marginalizing Democrats, liberals or any other non-right wing parties.

Fox and hate radio are specifically broadcast in the military to brainwash whomever they can. Whoever allowed this knew exactly what they were doing.

[70sEraVet]

32. I remember that during the Sandra Fluke vs. Rush Limbaugh

When Limbaugh was calling her a slut and a prostitute on his radio program, there started to be a serious movement to stop military bases from carrying his broadcasts.
https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2012/0308/Does-Rush-Limbaugh-belong-on-armed-forces-radio-Criticism-mounts

I think he finally was forced to issue an apology to her. But his damage was already done.

[Initech]

34. The bigger problem is social media.

I knew people who once considered themselves liberal and progressive, and they have been flipped and radicalized on social media. Once they were attending protests, now they're on the Alex Jones crack pipe.

Yeah hate radio is a big problem, but social media is even worse.

[FakeNoose]

50. Definitely true for anyone under 30

The old folks might go on Facebook for pictures of their grandkids, but not much else. The olds are home watching Faux Noise all day long. Working people (while driving around) listen to radio, maybe. I never did, but I'm not part of their weirdness anyway.

I'm going to agree with you that social media has done a shocking amount of brainwashing on mostly younger folks.

[Historic NY]

35. Put the Disney Channel in its place.

[Tumbulu]

43. I could not agree with you more!

Just horrific that this has been going on for so long.

It will take a generation or more to undo the damage, if that is even possible.

But this is a start.

[onenote]

44. AFN is not available in the US

So, what you're complaining about is the availability of Fox News on cable or satellite services available on military bases. Blocking Fox from the line up on those services would (a) violate the terms of the agreement by which the military gets cable or satellite service and (b) violate the first amendment.

So it probably wouldn't be a no cost way to reduce extremism.

Would you similarly propose that a member of the military who lives off base in a private residence be barred from watching Fox News? Would you demand that the government monitor all internet usage by members of the military (and veterans) so that they don't access fox news online?

[maxrandb]

49. Private residence is fine

Do whatever they want within the law.

Having it broadcast on military bases, and on ships infers legitimacy and support.

The military has tons of connections and contracts with the private sector.

We would draw the line and cancel those contracts and connections if they were detrimental to good order and discipline.

You can go to Hooters, or a bar with Confederate Flags in the windows, you just won't find those on military installations.

[zentrum]

54. Destroying the Country.

Oh, the tragic irony.

[Sherman A1]

64. They should only be tuned to AFN

Armed Forces Network, nothing more. What people listen to or watch on their own time is up to them, but the taxpayers should not support propaganda.

I would also believe that some classes in spotting propaganda and false narratives in the news would be helpful.

[sarchasm]

69. My gym doesn't allow ANY news channels.

It's the #1 reason why I go there.