Joe Manchin's ugly new demands expose the absurdity of arbitrary centrism

[Celerity]

Last edited Tue Oct 19, 2021, 08:10 AM - Edit history (1)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/10/18/manchin-climate-reconciliation-child-allowance/

Sen. Joe Manchin III is very worried about the cost of passing President Biden’s agenda. But what about the cost of not passing it?

The West Virginia Democrat is making new demands that could badly impair our ability to combat child poverty and global warming, by shrinking two key components of the multi-trillion-dollar reconciliation bill.

Manchin’s new moves reveal the folly of arbitrary centrism. This posture is essentially that any effort to restrain liberal governance is an inherent good, with no serious acknowledgement required of the real-world trade offs it entails.

Manchin has told the White House that the expanded child tax credit (CTC) must be packaged with a work requirement and be capped at family incomes of around $60,000, Axios reports. This would dramatically downsize current policy, which temporarily expands the CTC to $300 per month for most American families.

snip

go to the link for much more

[Auggie]

1. Just 4:30 am and my head is ready to explode

[Celerity]

2. 13 33 here and my head is fine, I hope you feel better

[Mad_Machine76]

3. It seems more like

Manchin is obsessed with being a contrarian.

[FBaggins]

4. I doubt that dishonest attacks are likely to convince Manchin

Senate leadership has known since before there was a reconciliation bill... indeed, before the process even began... that Manchin opposed the climate policy preferences of the administration and that the family spending provisions (like the child tax credit) needed to be needs-based and therefore means-tested.

IOW - "Ugly" or not... they are hardly new demands.

[Celerity]

5. the CTC already was means-tested/capped, his letter he signed on July 28th was vague and contained

no specifics as to how low he would go, certainly not a 60% slashing downward, and certainly not a work requirement



the letter

https://static.politico.com/1e/ef/159cabd547868585f9b1a8f06388/july-28-2021.pdf

[FBaggins]

8. The point is still essentially the same

First, there were complaints that he was opposing the package size and wouldn’t give leadership a number to work with. Then the complaint was that all he would do is give them a number and wouldn’t tell us what specific policies he opposed. Now the complaint is that he just keeps adding to his list of demands?

Obviously, there's little incentive for him to give any specifics at all if it becomes clear that the only purpose for such calls is to drive pieces like this.

[Hortensis]

6. Maybe, but it's representative government in action. Not gone wrong.

It's unfortunate that we have tie in the senate that makes one vote so powerful. But sometimes that happens. Another time we're 5 senators down and just sit and watch while the Republicans run the board. The people speak.

As for Manchin, he's extremely well regarded by a majority of U.S. citizens residing in red WV. A popular moderate-conservative-leaning-blue governor, now senator whom they reelect by strong margins. THEY LIKE HIM!

Refusal to accept that the people of WV have the right to be represented as they choose would be rejection of representative government.

Negotiation of legislation that a majority of representatives can agree on is how representative democracy works. Always has been.

May not always be.

Because Trump and his trumpists hate representative government and intend to put an end to it. They believe people who disagree with them don't deserve to have a say and need to be stopped. By definition they'd despise "arbitrary centrism," whatever that might be, because ONLY their fascistic white nationalism is valid.

[Farmer-Rick]

12. Manchin's approval ratings have actually dropped

So he really isn't representing the voters of WV. If he keeps this up he risks losing a reelection bid.

"Recent polling shows that he is still above water on favorability. Overall, 42 percent of poll respondents say they approve of Manchin and 37 percent say they disapprove."

https://wvmetronews.com/2021/09/03/justice-and-capito-show-solid-approval-while-manchin-hangs-tight/

That was in September. I couldn't find one for October.

Also the majority of his constituency approved of taxing the rich for funding of this bill.

https://www.wvgazettemail.com/news/politics/poll-shows-wv-voters-support-using-tax-hikes-on-rich-corporations-to-help-pay-for/article_0df66787-202a-5b5e-8eb9-f20e0cd622da.html

But we all know It's not about representing the majority of voters. This is all about the filthy rich buying our representatives. The longer Manchin does this the longer the filthy rich get to keep their tax give aways. All the filthy rich need to do is delay, delay, delay. And they gain more wealth. And since the Democratic majority is so slim, all it takes is buying just one candidate with excessive campaign funds and they win, we lose.

In this oligarchy, money and wealth is political speech. Just ask the Supremes.

[Hortensis]

14. I'm sure Manchin's watching feedback from his state also.

If Manchin wanted to throw in with the filthy wealthy, he'd of course have taken the usual route in a red state of running as a Republican, and today the GOP would have 51 senators. As it is, he votes often against them.

We're all upset and anxious, but it's wrong, and...not fact-based, to choose to think that anyone who doesn't agree with everything as laid out in the original Biden plan must be corrupt or stupid.

Btw, millions looking at the Democratic passion for government handouts like to claim it's proof that we're corrupt, all of us with our greedy hands out for their money. If those who wanted to believe that needed further "proof" (they never do), they'd find it in our current outrage that the child tax credit won't be available to those of us in the affluent upper middle class, and beyond in some cases.

Not true, but...let's face it: an important reason for extending these goodies into the affluent range is to encourage them to vote Democratic. Some people get seriously displeased at being cut out of consideration after years of paying in big time, even when they know they don't need it. Just the way it is, the belief of some in the rightness of paying so much in taxes perhaps weak at best, maybe some just need to feel included, or respected. Whatever. Some would call this corruption, "bribing" people to vote Democratic. But, we do need every vote we can..."get."

Manchin, like all his colleagues on both sides of the aisle, knows all the reasons that the cap he wants lowered was set where it was, and a lot more.

[marble falls]

7. Joe Manchin represents nothing more than his investment in coal and other financial interests ...

... of his own and his family's. What makes him a Democrat? Is it even possible to bring him back or even into the fold of the Democratic Party and the values the biggest most most of us hold to?

[Raven]

9. I agree, and there is nothing new about this. These congresspeople have voted their

own personal interests and the interest of their corporate bed fellows for decades. What is different is that Manchin has such an outsized influence because of the Dem's slim majority.

[Beastly Boy]

10. Finally, a criticism of Manchin's ideology rather than his tactics.

Whether right wing, centrist or left wing, any dogma becomes arbitrary at some point. Manchin is no exception, and his tactics should not surprise anyone as being exceptional in any way.

The problem with Manchin is that he had grown accustomed to his tunnel vision after a long career in politics, not that he is out to dismantle Biden's agenda or that he is selling out to the right wing for personal gain. But this is by no means unique to Manchin. We should stop regarding him as an aberration and start treating him as a rule. Sure, this makes dealing with him a lot more difficult than just nudging him to fall in line, but understanding where he is coming from is likely to be more productive than shaming him.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

11. When he first started his demands, he said he was there "to represent my constituents."

I guess the people who voted for him like to be poor, because every policy in BBB that he objects to would cut child poverty in half, provide child care for working parents, expand the child tax credit, and provide for two free years of college to make themselves competitive in the workplace.

His positions are completely opposite of what his constituents really want, and aligns more closely to the Republican point of view. I was going to say "the Republican agenda," but the GQP has no agenda, only an obsession with defeating Biden at every turn, even if his proposals mirror those the Repugs have supported in the past.

He has objected to the cost of the BBB act, even though Biden has shown that it will be completely paid for by making corporations and the very rich -- both of which now pay essentially no income tax -- pay their fair share.

Manchin sounds like he's taking his marching orders from Moscow Mitch, who in turn is controlled by Putin, whose sole goal is to destroy the United States in every way possible. It would have been nice to have had a real Democratic majority in the Senate. Imagine all the good that could be done for everyone who's not in the top one percent. It would truly be a New Deal.

[Sneederbunk]

13. Elect enough Dem senators in '22 so this guy does not matter.

[Javaman]

15. can't have the poor with time to live, got to always keep them one...

...desperate moment away from losing everything.

that's the conservative way!

he is a despicable person.