General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAfghanistan Near Collapse
Afghanistan Near Collapse
October 24, 2021 at 3:50 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 88 Comments
https://politicalwire.com/2021/10/24/afghanistan-near-collapse/
"SNIP.....
Afghanistan will shortly collapse into chaos unless the international community acts rapidly, Swedish and Pakistani ministers warned on Saturday, CNN reports.
......SNIP"
Wingus Dingus
(8,059 posts)making the trains run? Who knew?
paleotn
(17,970 posts)Kind of like the dog that caught the car. OK, now what do we do?
joetheman
(1,450 posts)Wingus Dingus
(8,059 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,713 posts)pwb
(11,291 posts)No war for you anymore.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)They suggest direct to individuals economic aide as well as support of NGOs and working around the talisman. They also suggest that world needs to set up conditions for the Taliban to participate on the world stage.
JI7
(89,271 posts)Even at the lowest levels of it .
Yes, we can try to help but whoever does will likely be killed and the ideology would not allow that help.
JustAnotherGen
(31,903 posts)Human beings who want to help will lose their lives. They won't accept it.
They want 'money' and 'inclusion in the global economy' without basic human rights for all citizens.
lindysalsagal
(20,733 posts)Sorry. I'm not buyin'.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)That's different from accusing CNN from wanting more war. I understand, throwing money at a confused situation isn't necessarily a good thing, but neither is withholding it across the board. Anyone, any entity that can demonstrate the ability to avoid a humanitarian crisis must be heard. Blanket rejections of their offers don't help.
lindysalsagal
(20,733 posts)Just like their arab neighbors.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)Moral standards are based upon what YOU can do, not what other people can do. If we can help in a humanitarian crisis, we should. It isn't always easy to know what that is. Aid groups that go into countries with disasters have to do very specific evaluations of what money they should spend IN country (and potentially cause inflation and shortages) and what they should bring in from outside (but not cause the collapse of local markets and suppliers). Yes, the Taliban should be circumvented at every opportunity. But people should be helped at every opportunity as well.
lindysalsagal
(20,733 posts)zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)Afghan civilians that have nothing to do with the Taliban will die in great numbers due to starvation and abuse in the mean time.
meadowlander
(4,406 posts)Thomas Hurt
(13,903 posts)JI7
(89,271 posts)Bucky
(54,068 posts)This cluster isn't even Trump's legacy. He essentially entered hand-off talks with the Taliban indistinguishable from Biden's policies.
It's Dubya's legacy. We had a comparatively small window (maybe 3 years) in which to install a reasonable moderate (by Afghan standards) regime that could manage the infrastructure and aid needed to put the country into a stable state. Bush instead threw most of the Afghan resources into the Iraq distraction. The resulting negligence allowed the Taliban to rebuild and dig in.
This country was never going to look like the elite Kabul region did in the 1970s -- But a gradual and peaceful easing of women's social status, if done through the established regional clans and leadership elite was possible. It would've taken a LOT of bribery and ignoring a LOT a corruption, but a less violent path was possible 18 years ago. The October 2001 invasion was a teachable moment. But we blew it. Bush blew it.
cadoman
(792 posts)Look, I know there are piles of natural resources there, and seemingly good amounts of people that could be imported as and/or converted to slaves to extract those resources, and it'd be great to protect the opioid industry from Taliban interference, but maybe for once in our nation's history we should take the high road and let the Afghans run Afghanistan? Tell the billionaires to fuck off? It's a core reason the nation put the Democratic party in charge to begin with.
JI7
(89,271 posts)enough proof we can't. And too many muslims use it to blame "the west" instead of admitting Islamic extremism is the problem.
JI7
(89,271 posts)on the Taliban "victory" in Afghanistan.
lindysalsagal
(20,733 posts)Bucky
(54,068 posts)His hand helped drive out the Americans, as it did the Soviets and British before. God quite demonstrably loves and protects their land for them as a reward, presumedly, for living by their version of Shariya law and keeping the corrupting beauty of their women away from the weak eyes of the men. God drove out the infidels in a week. Do you seriously need more proof?
maxsolomon
(33,400 posts)they broke it; they bought it.
orwell
(7,775 posts)...you break, you take.
Enjoy your "nation building"...
Ritabert
(669 posts)Pakistan hid the Taliban. Let them and Turkey, Turkmenistan, Iran, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan chip in.
marie999
(3,334 posts)If no one attacks it then it is just a bunch of tribes who hate each other.
Delphinus
(11,840 posts)you might be right.
Now if they would let people leave who want to, that would be good.
harumph
(1,915 posts)Let it collapse. Let the immediate surrounding countries step in or face
millions of refugees. Namely, China and Pakistan. Pakistan has played us for a fool many many years.
In Afghanistan and elsewhere in this world
cruelty is a fait accompli. It's going to get a lot worse in the next 20 years with climate change and
The wealthy in our country have no intention
of stepping up to plate. It's going to be a fucking mess for everyone so get ready or give up.
GoCubsGo
(32,094 posts)It's about to revert to what it was prior to decades of Western interference: A collection of tribes, who often don't get along with each other, surrounded by a bunch of countries.
dalton99a
(81,590 posts)A land where different tribes live.
Let them figure it out
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)Especially women and children who behave in such ridiculous manners such as learning to read and write. There are organizations that are attempting to make things better. Not governments, not even intelligence agencies. But Afghans and other NGO's that deserve support, even if you don't like the Taliban.
roamer65
(36,747 posts)The Chinese can have both Afghanistan and Pakistan.
They already have Pakistani PM Imran Khan in their hip pocket.
JustAnotherGen
(31,903 posts)Have to figure this one out.
Goodheart
(5,345 posts)People will suffer, no doubt, and I feel bad for that.... BUT
MORE will suffer in the long term if we relieve the Taliban of economic pressure and social unrest. It's time for Afghans to rise up on their own accord.
Xolodno
(6,401 posts)..."be careful what you ask for, you just might get it".
They will eventually get bailed out, but not after making serious concessions to China and Russia for its mineral wealth. They fear ISIS just as much as anyone else and that group will slaughter them as well. They don't play by any rules.
They want international recognition, but don't want to change their ways. It doesn't work that way. And I'm certain that a lot of smarter Afghans bailed on the country during the withdrawal or prior, creating a huge brain drain.
twin_ghost
(435 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,460 posts)FakeNoose
(32,767 posts)I haven't heard that they want our help. Nor should we feel we need to give it to them.