Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Sugarcoated

(7,724 posts)
Mon Nov 1, 2021, 02:09 AM Nov 2021

Antivax doublespeak

Conspiracy koo koo says:

"By definition, not a “vaccine” as it clearly does NOT “provide immunity”.

vac·cine
/vakˈsēn/
noun
a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease."

Like, huh? Hairsplitting? Gaslighting?

5 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

cadoman

(792 posts)
1. it's a semantic argument; is immunity a binary state? what word would they use otherwise?
Mon Nov 1, 2021, 02:53 AM
Nov 2021

I'd say the vaccines are a form of prophylaxis--a specific form that aims to produce an immune response. That immune response may not confer 100% "immunity" (meaning of "immunity" could also be disputed or more specifically quantified), but it was still an induced immune response and thus "vaccine" is the best word to describe these products.

Some gqp call them "gene therapy", but "therapy" should be used to describe treatment on a condition a patient is known to have. That is, you don't have "preventative therapy".

The semantic common ground you might be able to find with this person is:

"mRNA/adenovirus vaccine with X% efficacy" -- where the "X%" you've likely agreed to disagree.

Questions for them: What would you call these products if not "vaccines"? Are flu vaccines, with their lower efficacy, also not vaccines? Are vaccines in testing that had low efficacy or yielded bad side effects no longer "vaccines'? Does the word "vaccine" describe the method and intent of a product or its results? If a vaccine exists that confers immunity, but the target virus evolves to transcend that immunity, is the vaccine no longer a vaccine, or rather is it a vaccine that is simply no longer effective? etc. etc. etc.

Johonny

(20,851 posts)
4. Yup, heard that before. It's not a vaccine
Mon Nov 1, 2021, 10:16 AM
Nov 2021

It being loaded because there are multiple vaccines for Covid now.

Oddly they got their flu shot and don't seem concerned about it's lower protection for the flu than Covid vaccines have for Covid, but . . . they're not really arguing with logic now are they?

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Antivax doublespeak