More than a third of white students lie about their race on college applications

[Ex Lurker]

white privilege means lying about your race when it's comvenient

https://thehill.com/changing-america/enrichment/education/577722-more-than-a-third-of-white-students-lie-about-their

A survey from Intelligent found that 34 percent of white students who applied to colleges and universities falsely claimed they were a racial minority on their application.

The publication found that 81 percent of students who faked minority status did so to improve their chances of getting accepted. Fifty percent of students who lied said they did it to get minority-focused financial aid.


Most students, 48 percent, claimed to be Native American on their application. Thirteen percent falsely marked that they were Latino, while 10 percent falsely claimed to be Black. Nine percent of those surveyed lied that they were Asian or Pacific Islander.

For the most part, Intelligent found, these white students tended to get away with their lies. About 3 in 4, or 77 percent, of white applicants who faked minority status on their applications were accepted to those colleges.

[Sympthsical]

1. This isn't white privilege

That term really needs to have some meaning. Seems like anything disliked is white privilege now.

Trying not to be white is pretty much the opposite of the term.

[EarlG]

16. The students aren't "trying not to be white"

A system was put in place to create a more level playing field for minority students, because white students already had a big advantage when applying to colleges. White students then abused that system in order to continue to keep the playing field tilted in their favor.

"For the most part, Intelligent found, these white students tended to get away with their lies. About 3 in 4, or 77 percent, of white applicants who faked minority status on their applications were accepted to those colleges."

White privilege.

[Ex Lurker]

17. Exactly NT

[Sympthsical]

27. By this standard, anything a white person does is privilege

If a white person makes sure someone knows they're white because they perceive it will give them competitive advantage, that's white privilege.

If a white person marks down non-white because of a desire for competitive advantage, also white privilege.

Create a system that is easily gamed, people will game it. Especially in an area as competitive as college admission. That doesn't make it white privilege. It just makes the people who cheated assholes.

[EarlG]

32. What's that saying, "When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression?"

Previously the system was structured in favor of whites and against minorities, so white students would find it much easier to get into college than minority students.

The system was then adjusted in an effort to achieve a level playing field, so that minority students would not face an uphill battle vs. their white counterparts.

White students are now abusing the new system in order to tilt the playing field back in their favor. The result is that once again, white students have an advantage and minority students face an uphill battle.

Plus, the white students face no punishment for doing this, in fact they are rewarded by getting into college (and taking a placement that should have gone to a minority student).

"Create a system that is easily gamed, people will game it." Sure, but it's white people who are doing the gaming and being allowed to get away with it.

(Unless the assumption is that it is *minority* students who actually gamed the system in the first place, and these white students who are getting into college under false pretenses are merely trying to right some kind of injustice...?)

[Dr. Strange]

34. But this is the literal opposite of white privilege.

The idea of white privilege is that while there might be different reasons for not being admitted to college (like low grades or poor test scores), a white person will not be denied on the basis of their race. Only marginalized communities will face that prospect. Ironically, telling white people to give up their privilege could involve claiming to be a different race.

White students are now abusing the new system in order to tilt the playing field back in their favor. The result is that once again, white students have an advantage and minority students face an uphill battle.

Plus, the white students face no punishment for doing this, in fact they are rewarded by getting into college (and taking a placement that should have gone to a minority student).

Since we don't have racial quotas in college admissions (these are explicitly illegal), the only significance of this situation would be if you had a white person who would not be admitted if they claim they are white, but who would be admitted if they claimed to not be white. And that scenario might be possible--but it would be the exact opposite of white privilege.

[wellst0nev0ter]

60. This is the white privilege

Plus, the white students face no punishment for doing this

Or in other words, 77% are still allowed to go to college, even though they lied on their application.

And this is especially heinous since they gamed a system that is supposed to help correct the effects of white privilege.

[Dr. Strange]

86. But how do we know?

If you have applicants of different races applying and lying about their race, and everyone except the white applicants were being punished, then I would certainly call that white privilege. But does anyone get punished? I don't know of any instance of this.

So if no one is getting punished, then is it really white privilege for whites to avoid punishment?

[wellst0nev0ter]

87. First you should give me an instance of a non-white applicant lying about being white

Then we can discuss this intellectual exercise.

[Dr. Strange]

91. Why?

We don't even have an instance of a white applicant lying about not being white. I don't know how serious to take this survey, especially considering they specifically avoided asking anyone who wasn't white.

The only actual case I know of where someone lied about their race on an application was Mindy Kaling's brother. (An Indian lying about being black.)

[wellst0nev0ter]

92. If you can't specify any data supporting your claims, then your intellectual exercise is moot

Take care.

[Mossfern]

93. My daughter was Valedictorian of her class

She had a 4. something GPA, perfect scores on one SAT and almost perfect on the other,was active in extracurricular activities, interned with the local congressman, several scholastic awards including National Merit Scholar, volunteered locally...and was rejected by most of her top choices. She even called the dean of admissions of one school to know why she wasn't accepted. The dean pulled up her record and told her that he couldn't figure out why. She complained to me that it was probably because she was a white Jewish girl from the Northeast.

It eventually turned out fine- she was accepted to John's Hopkins on scholarship and PhD from UC Berkeley - her absolutely favorite school.

I have absolutely no issue with CRT, but I believe that the negative consequences to some in order to make up for abuses of others in the past, and in many places in the present, need be addressed as well.

Please pardon any weirdness in my post - it's the vodka.

[BlackSkimmer]

52. Yes. nt

[live love laugh]

30. But would they have been accepted anyway?

Sounds like they were academically eligible.

Their lies just seem to be a right wing tactic to muddy the waters.

[fulllib]

39. It absolutely is.

White people taking what isn't there's is exactly white privilege.

Stop arguing about terminology anyway. it may "seem like anything disliked is white privilege," but that's only because white privilege is systemic and all over the place.

[Caliman73]

44. It does have meaning.

The White privilege isn't the lying on the application. The White privilege is the not getting in trouble when it is found out that they lied. Lying used to be a serious matter on University Campuses. The White students understand that under representation of racial minorities has been a consideration in the application process so they are now using it to their advantage and when they are caught, they are not getting consequences.

Privilege is basically, in very simplistic terms, "Getting the benefit of the doubt" especially when that benefit is not earned. For example, let's say I work in a company for 15 years. I am always on time, never waste time, always receive the highest rankings on my evaluations and am widely respected by my colleagues and management. Let's say something goes wrong on a project in which I was involved that 4 other staff were also involved. There isn't a clear idea of who was responsible for the problem but the other workers are relatively new and 2 of them have been known to make mistakes. Who would be the least likely suspect of the 5 workers? Likely me, because I have earned the reputation for solid work over a 15 year career with the organization. People would likely assume it was one of the other 4 workers. That is earned privilege.

White privilege and male privilege is seen as "Unearned". You get the benefit of the doubt simply because the color of your skin. If something is stolen and there are 3 White suspects and 2 Black suspects, chances are high that the focus will be on the Black suspects because the going notion is the Black people are more likely to behave criminally. It would likely not matter that the 2 Black suspects have NO criminal history while the White suspects do. They just get the benefit of the doubt.

[tirebiter]

2. Which is why I include my id #

When I say Native American. One of my bosses used white out to eliminate that. Poetic injustice.

[Iggo]

83. Lol...whiteout.

[multigraincracker]

3. Science says the concept of race is invalid.

But who cares what Anthropologist and Geneticist prove to be true.
Might be better to look at other variables like culture, economic conditions and results of bigotry.

[ShazamIam]

15. Income, I think CA has switched to a system that prioritizes income over race because

research had shown poverty was the great barrier to scholastic success.

[Act_of_Reparation]

82. Racism is real, even if race is not.

That's why race has to be considered in the admissions process.

[Dr. Strange]

4. I don't think that's white privilege.

white privilege means lying about your race when it's comvenient

White privilege means that being white is always convenient. That any inconvenience you may experience in life may be due to many factors, but being white is NOT one of them.

[cinematicdiversions]

74. Apparently that is not accurate in academia. NT

[walkingman]

5. I'm not really sure what to think about that. Like so many programs set up

to help people it is abused or "played" by those participating. In reality it appears that the colleges don't really give a shit.

[jimfields33]

25. What can they do? They don't have pictures to show their face.

How are they to know what the race is. Mostly they go by SAT and grade point average and perhaps some activities and volunteer work. I think it’s impossible to tell from a four page application the race of somebody.

[fulllib]

42. Kick them out for lying on an application is obvious

In addition, misrepresenting themselves on a financial contract or application ought to be fraud of some kind.

[cinematicdiversions]

75. How could you prove someone lied about their race? NT

[Lancero]

85. Depends on what race they're claiming.

Native heritage is rather easy to confirm via Tribal IDs.

[PoliticAverse]

6. Racial fluidity in action...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_fluidity

[GregariousGroundhog]

88. I had not heard of the term racial fluidity before, but that concept actually makes some sense

For example, my mother is 1/4 Native American and qualifies for a yearly per capita payment from her tribe. I doubt she would list herself as Native American on an employment application or census questionnaire. She grew up in a predominately white suburb though, and not on the reservation like my grandmother did.

As for me, even though I'm only 1/8 Native American, what if I had been born and raised on the reservation? Would I still have been able to associate myself as Native American, even if I don't qualify for the per capita payment?

[PoliticAverse]

90. Absent some objective criteria as to what counts as what race, we are just left with what people say

(or think they are).

[CTyankee]

7. I like the response one hopeful student wrote in "human" in the Race category...

[multigraincracker]

9. That is the only

true answer.
Plus one for that student.

[janterry]

19. This is what Richard Dawkins does

Race, he said correctly in his recent interview, is a social construct.

[JustAnotherGen]

21. That's great

But it minimizes how much faster and higher the minority student, in a red line by design underfunded school district, had to run and jump to even be able to apply.

[CTyankee]

55. And that is deliberate, and precisely why white segregationists have done it in the first place!

[multigraincracker]

8. Much like President Obama,

I’m half Irish. People say he is Black and I’m White. We are all on the Gray scale, just different points on that Bell Curve. Words are symbolic and not the thing.

[PoliticAverse]

11. Shouldn't it have been O'Bama then? n/t

[Dr. Strange]

13. Okay, that's a time out for you.

[multigraincracker]

49. No one is more Irish than O'Bama

as the Pub Song goes.

[PoliticAverse]

50. Ha!...

[multigraincracker]

53. TY.

[cinematicdiversions]

10. As many pointed out this is the opposite of white privilege

Of course how exactly does one prove one is not a member of a minority group. Charlie Sheen is Hispanic for example as is Cameron Diaz. Hispanics are often white appearing. Many African Americans are also white appearing. How exactly is a college or university supposed to tell?

[PoliticAverse]

12. The same way one prooves one's gender? n/t

[janterry]

69. lol

[fulllib]

40. Taking what belongs to minorities is trading on your white privilege

[Wingus Dingus]

14. Time to stop racial considerations on applications

for college and aid, then. It's being gamed, and it wasn't ever really fair anyway. Admissions need to be based on academic standing, SAT/ACT, and aid should be based on need.

[JustAnotherGen]

20. Then many minorities

In underfunded communities (Mississippi, Arkansas, Oklahoma, etc. etc. ) will be left out.

There is still segregation in the South - and by virtue of Red Lining - everywhere in America. In the South, blue state money is taken to fund Christians schooling - and they deliberately underfund public schools, while also suppressing the votes of parents.

I don't agree with punishing black, latino, and indigenous students because a few white folks are breaking the law.

This was a big issue in Elizabeth Warren's campaign.

I personally believe that was is on the birth certificate is what you go with.

[MichMan]

22. Does the birth certificate rule also apply to gender?

[Ex Lurker]

29. your transphobia is showing nt

[Torchlight]

31. This may help you to understand. I came across it the day I signed up here.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215969127

[JustAnotherGen]

70. Yes

Gender on the application?

I'm also not aware of any affirmative action for women that resulted from the Civil Rights Act. We don't even have an ERA.

Birth Certificate and Census are the root of Reparations via Tax Breaks. Folks better get used to it.

[cinematicdiversions]

73. Woman are the vast majority of college students

Any affirmative action would decrease the amount of woman in any particular college.

[Wingus Dingus]

24. I don't believe it should be a factor anymore.

It's time for everyone to compete at the same level. This means Asian Americans will most likely benefit, but fair is fair.

[JustAnotherGen]

72. Really - hmmmmm

What about Trade Schools?

What about Home Loans?

What about Car Loans?

What about Red Lined homes?

Can we please have reparations now - just give those of us whose parents, grandparents, ourselves on the US Census as negro from 1930 to 1970 a 32 years 5% tax break . . .

That money can be used for tutors and private charter schools to ensure that black children have a the same advantage as white kids in suburban school districts.


Deal? Give me my tax break now. Only for 32 years, we can trace people via census, automatic sunset. Example - I'm 48 without children. So when I die - it sunsets out.

My brother's oldest daughter is 28. When she's 60 - she would stop receiving the tax break. Her children would not be eligible - as her father was not on the Census in 1971.

It's simple - and makes up for the 'head start' that was given to white Americans - who can cheat at this level, people think its 'cute', and not face any criminal consequences.

If they are using this to get Federal Loans - throw their asses in the slammer now.

[Wingus Dingus]

76. I'm OK with the reparations/tax break as you describe, as well as

disenrolling anyone who lied on their applications or charging anyone who used fraudulent means to obtain state or federal aid. But racial identity as a factor in being granted (or denied) pretty much ANYTHING needs to start going by the wayside. Jobs, schools, loans, etc.

[cinematicdiversions]

77. Honestly there is also no way for a home loan company to know what race you are.

Its not like this is 1975 where you walk into a bank and talk to a loan officer. If it wasn't for government reporting requirements race simply wouldn't be on the application. (And honestly it shouldn't be).

[PoliticAverse]

35. I just checked an official copy of my birth certificate, and "SEX" is on it but race is not.

(City of New York)

[Retrograde]

54. Mine don't even have that

(Yes, plural). The certificate they gave my parents when I was born just has my name and date of birth. The certificate they send me when I wrote for one says something to the effect that they have a record of my birth in the city, with again just my name and date of birth.

(City of Buffalo, NY, which for some reason doesn't like to emboss documents. One of my sisters' birth certificate is embossed - her twin's isn't.)

[JustAnotherGen]

71. My race is on mine

But my blood type is not.

It's also on my brothers. . . My dad was playing war games when he was born (1971) and my mom's parents were with her in Kentucky from California. White mother, white grandparents - my brother who looks like Cory Booker has white on his Birth Certicate.

Race is not 'fluid'. Race is not merely a 'social construct'.

We can always look at the individuals race, and their parents' and grandparents' race on the US Census - and find the sneaky little cheating bastards that way.

[cinematicdiversions]

79. Mine is from Northern Ireland

It doesn't have race either... but it does have religion...

[totodeinhere]

61. Those students who lie on their applications should charged just like Lori Loughlin and those other

rich parents were for cheating on admissions.

[fulllib]

41. Academics and "merit" don't work

Academics, merit-based, or only allowing students that 'earned it,' are exactly how we ended up with a racist education system. It's because whites gamed the system that we ended up with racial quotas in the first place.

[sinkingfeeling]

18. This is the result of the American mindset: grab everything for yourself, even if it means lying and

cheating. I'd bet at least 60% of those who lied on their applications also claim to be 'good Christians' .

[WhiskeyGrinder]

23. White privilege is knowing you'll be questioned less about false claims, even (or perhaps

especially) about race.

[JustAnotherGen]

26. This is why any free college

Funding has to be put on the back burner - until we truly fix the Red Lining issue in America.

It has a direct impact on black, latino, and indigenous students ability to even APPLY. I don't know about 'white privilege' but it sure as shit is lying on an application. The should have to submit a birth certificate and that will fix the issue.

I also don't think much has changed since 1991 when I was a Freshman at private university.

Perfect Score ACT
1580 SAT
Top 5% of a private prep school graduating class

Black and Female
Affluent family

I got in because I was better than everyone else.
I didn't get 'free money' because of the color of my skin - I received a small academic scholarship, but did not qualify for the federal grants, or even the unsubsidized stafford loans (still a thing)?

Yet at least once a semester I had to point this out in a Political Science class - normally to a white kid from Quebec, or Appalachia, or New York City who got to get into the discounted book line in the bookstore each semester.

I've had it - not with the OP - just with the arrogance of these people.

I disagree with punishing minority students because white students are cheating cheaters who break the rules and LIE on their college application.

Cheaters may eat better, but the Honest sleep better.

[Cobalt Violet]

28. Whites stealing from Natives.

Same old story. There is nothing they won't take. Sickens me to see some here justify it.

[hunter]

51. My wife's father is largely Native American.

His parents spoke Spanish, having family on both sides of the U.S. Mexican border. The border split many indigenous communities, and many indigenous people in the U.S.A. were forced across the border into Mexico by violence. My father-in-law was born in the U.S.A..

I have a niece and a daughter-in-law who have tribal identifications.

None of them grew up immersed in Native American culture and haven't explicitly claimed that minority status in their education or workplace. But they have had that status assigned to them by college programs and workplaces that want to demonstrate some kind of diversity in their selection and hiring process.

Nevertheless, claiming to be black or Native American because of some supposed great grandmother (who probably passed as white herself) is "stealing."

I'm white, mostly Scandinavian, some of it by way of England and Scotland. I've got some Jewish and Irish ancestors as well, but the last of them did not want to be identified as such because of the extreme prejudices against them here in the U.S.A. in their time.

The only time I'm Irish is Saint Patrick's Day and that's because I'm one of those idiot tourists who has kissed the Blarney Stone. Otherwise I wouldn't claim to be Irish or to seek some benefit by it. I was born white in the U.S.A. and grew up in a community that was 99% white. That makes me white.

[Stinky The Clown]

33. Were I a prosecutor I would charge these miscreants with some for a grand theft (felony)

They are in essence stealing from minority students.

[maxsolomon]

36. Lying is unethical.

Leave the box unchecked if it offends you so much, you privileged shits.

[janterry]

47. The students who responded to this survey were paid

about 35 cents. These are people that do tiny jobs - gig work online. They work to build up a few dollars as a pay out.

[maxsolomon]

57. So they're just fucking with the results for fun?

I guess that makes sense.

[janterry]

59. oh, I don't know that

I'll bet this is a problem. It's just that a convenience sample of kids who probably don't have much money (by a lot - these are kids earning literal nickles and dimes).

I'd say it's an interesting result and we'd need more research - through better methods - to see how bad the situation is.

[Takket]

37. So this article leaves out an important point

The 77% that get away with lying… do they get away with it simply because their statement was never verified, or do they get away with it because someone found out they lied and said “you’re white. It’s all good”

Because that is a big difference.

[Dr. Strange]

38. My guess...

they get away with it because the college is in a awkward position. There are two possibilities:

The student would have been admitted anyway, so the lie didn't matter. If the college punishes the student, it will be for lying about race (even if there were no consequences). If this was a public institution, then we get the interesting constitutional question of whether the state can force someone to claim to be a race if that person doesn't want to.

Or the student would not have been admitted if they identified as white, which while acceptable from most of our points of view here, would contradict the narrative of white privilege. And this would set up another constitutional question of whether it's okay to discriminate explicitly on the basis of race, which most colleges tend to want to avoid.

[janterry]

46. They used a company that pays people by the survey

I linked to it below. It's interesting data. But not very comprehensive.

[drexelkathy]

43. Personally, i hope my son doesn't even want to go to college

I find it ridiculously expensive and truly a waste of money for many individuals.

In my opinion, we have degraded a bachelor's degree to the equivalent of a high school diploma when even a receptionist job now asks for them...and with the cost of these degrees, we have young adults carrying mortgage payments of monthly debt

I hope my son takes the path my husband has. Trade and/or own a small business. No debt starting off adult life (because despite saving for any college he may want while he was in the womb...its going to be ridiculously expensive when he gets there)

I find it sad that individuals are lying. I wonder if the colleges even care anymore...I've seen so many of them grow and expand and lower admissions standards for the sake of adding more students and more money.

As long as the "narrative" continues to be that in order to be successful in adult life, one needs a college degree...we will see the value of degrees decrease, the costs continue to be high...and individuals lying, etc. to attain the slot at the "best" college. And driving for "free" college will only make the value of a bachelor's degree even more watered down.

[hunter]

66. I'm a complete sucker when it comes to my kids.

I'll always support them in their endeavors, but never without them first suffering my own stories.

They were straight A honors students in high school and have very respectable university degrees obtained with very serious scholarships.

My own path down that road was an absolute horror show. I quit high school at sixteen. Nevertheless I have a very respectable university degree as well. But that was very hard won and it's possible I haven't applied it as well they have their own.

I'm just a crazy homeless guy who got lucky. Maybe my kids will take me in the next time I fall.

Tradesmen or academics, it wouldn't have bothered me any which way they bent so long as they were happy.

Among my siblings it's a curious thing that the two high school dropouts have the university educations.

[janterry]

45. This title is wrong; 1/3 of students do not lie

1/3 of students in the study sample (an online convenience sample) lied about their race.

We don't know how to generalize that data. We do know that this study indicates that lying takes place in admissions. We also know that this study suggests that the problem might be widespread.

We can't say more than that. (More data would have to be gathered).

They used this platform to gather data: https://www.pollfish.com/
So, these were students who wished to take a mobile survey

The n was 1,250 white college applicants ages 16 and older

It looks like those that use the app are remunerated a small amount (and then take lots of surveys, to build up their payout).

The data is interesting. Just not quite as explosive as the title would suggest.

[PatSeg]

89. Thank you, that makes more sense

[Klaralven]

48. Colleges should require DNA analysis instead of self-identification

[Steelrolled]

63. I think it's be hard to find a geneticist willing to provide the DNA criteria to determine race.

[Klaralven]

64. 23andMe, Ancestry, MyHeritage, etc do it all the time.

[Steelrolled]

65. They tell you what your race is?

I kinda doubt it.

[Wingus Dingus]

81. They tell you where they think your DNA is from.

They don't come out and say what your race is. My ancestry report seems pretty accurate based on everything I know about my family (Eastern and Southern European--Italy/Poland), and yet almost 20% of my results I would not have guessed: Jewish, Cypriot, Iranian, Greek, North African, etc. Super interesting (to me), but that's about as useful as it gets. I think if anyone tries to use their report as the basis for racial identity for actual government benefits, they'll be disappointed. Seems mostly for entertainment/hobby value.

[hunter]

67. Sadly needs a sarcasm tag...

... since all humans are one race and so much depends on the culture you were born into and how you might "pass" in the dominant culture.

People who have always passed as "white" within the dominant white culture shouldn't be claiming to be something else, at least not without some caveats.

My niece once pulled her literal Indian card when she forgot to renew her fishing license and still she felt bad about that, even though her DNA and appearance doesn't pass as white. She is however a graphics artist living in white world and she wasn't fishing for sustenance, she was merely trying to impress a date.

I have some experience growing up torn between two worlds, in religion and sometimes sexuality, but I've always been very obviously white.

[cinematicdiversions]

78. I don't think science is going to back you up on that.

Would you require the same for gender?

[Orangepeel]

56. some number of that 48% are ignorant about what "Native American" means

and think it means born in America. It sounds ridiculous, but high school students from schools that aren't allowed to mention race are ignorant about a lot.

[ecstatic]

58. I bet they don't lie on job applications.

[Steelrolled]

62. I imagine few colleges would question it

even if the student seems obviously white. It just takes one case where the obvious white kid is really not white. Do you want to be that administrator called out in a viral tweet?

Reminds me of Rachel Dolezal, the white women who identified as black and became president of NAACP in Spokane, and might still be there if it wasn't for her meddling (and white) parents.

[Demovictory9]

68. some colleges ask for the tribal affiliation now... so many claim native american status

"what tribe are you registered with?

[PatSeg]

80. Extraordinary statistics

It is remarkable that it is so many.

[janterry]

84. I posted where they came from

they are extraordinary for a reason........