Is there anyone here still thinking Manchin and Sinema are going to support BBB?

[berni_mccoy]

Because if there is, it’s time to wake up.

These two senators have NOT been negotiating in good faith.

[Bettie]

1. I never thought they would

and now it is a sure thing that they won't.

Waiting and watching for all those who say these two will support it....I'm sure they will be here any minute to explain it all.

[TheBlackAdder]

46. I think they both want to foster a Trump Authoritarian State, as their actions seem to transmit.

.

Their goal seems to be common, weaken Biden and by extension strengthen Trump and the GOP.

.

[FoxNewsSucks]

2. But..... but...... He said he was.....

I just saw him say it on the TV machine!

[crud]

4. and he obviously doesn't want to negotiate in public

How dare you even ask a question?

[ColinC]

3. Nope. And all the premature "this is a victory" articles didn't convince me, either

[Walleye]

5. I've heard enough. I'm going for a walk while I still can

[XanaDUer2]

47. Hi, Walleye

Have a good walk. Took one myself.

[Walleye]

49. Thanks, A walk, shower and a laundry.Now British crime dramas on PBS

Feel much better.I gotta stop fretting about stuff I can’t do anything about. We just have to do our best to stay in good health.

[XanaDUer2]

50. We do. Which British show?

I love Midsomer Murders.

[Walleye]

52. Shakespeare and Hathaway is over, now watching Father Brown, Midsomer is next

[XanaDUer2]

53. Love them all nt

[qazplm135]

6. someone's been lying

either he's been lying about things with his colleagues or they've been lying to us about the optimism on being close, as if they were wishing it into existence or trying to pressure Manchin.

I suspect it's a little of both. Manchin gives them some reason to hope, but hasn't actually done anything to indicate he's close to being on board.

We have three options at this point.

1. Ask Manchin what he will agree to right now in reconciliation. Write that bill. Then come to him with possible add ons. Keep trying until you run out, then pass whatever that bill is.

2. Give up on reconciliation and pass BIF and try again later.

3. Pass nothing.

Quite frankly, 2 and 3 are formulas for failure. Three makes no one happy. 2 pisses off progressives and you cannot win without progressives moderates, you can't. Just like progressives can't win without you, you can't win without them.

That leaves 1. Which...sucks...but it's the best of a bad set of choices.

[CousinIT]

7. NOPE. I believe McConnell made some deals w/ them when Dems took the senate

1. Don't modify the filibuster in any way
2. OBSTRUCT BBB and most/all other Dem agenda items, including voting rights.

[Irish_Dem]

14. Yep. Turtle and Putin fingerprints all over this mess.

[PoliticAverse]

8. Manchin just made an announcement...

See it here:

[berni_mccoy]

20. That's why I made my OP

[FoxNewsSucks]

26. I was wondering. . . .

[CrispyQ]

9. The only thing the two are good for is the majority in the senate.

We worked so hard to get Ossoff & Warnock elected & then these two privileged jerks fuck everything up. This is the type of shit that demoralizes voters & keeps them away from the polls.

[Chille]

38. it is upsetting

Hi everyone,

I'm at a loss to what's going on and I'm looking for others to share my thoughts with.
Here's to DU!

[SergeStorms]

40. Welcome to DU, Chille!

Getting Democrats to agree on anything has been likened to herding cats. I don't think it's quite that bad, but it can be difficult at times.

We'll get it together sooner or later.

Welcome, and jump right in, don't be afraid to add your two cents to any conversation, and have fun.

[Chille]

45. Thank you 😊 nt

[CrispyQ]

48. IMO, this stunt Manchin pulled today was a giant fuck you to the Democratic Party.

The Virginia race is tomorrow & he goes on the national stage & disses dems? WTF? And what a coward to do this when Biden's out of town. Just a low-class asshole.

Welcome to DU!

[MoonRiver]

10. No

[hamsterjill]

11. Not me

I think they are doing exactly what they are being told to do and Dems are still trying to be “nice”.

To me, it’s been obvious that they are saboteurs.

[turbinetree]

12. I want the two bills to be brought forth and see "who votes for it and against it...

and just for record I stand with the Progressive caucus......

[Mary in S. Carolina]

13. After 2022

when we win 52+ seats in the Senate, they will both be irrelevant and worth nothing to Corporate America

[FBaggins]

15. I'm not sure that we'll ever get a chance to find out

nt

[berni_mccoy]

16. If you don't see it now, you never will

[FBaggins]

17. We'll see

I suspect that we'll get a BIF vote and put them to the test.

[BradAllison]

18. BBB doesn't exist anymore

They fucking gutted it.

[Etherealoc1]

19. Smh...gut the bill and then refuse to vote for it..

....hmm where have I seen that move before?🤔

[Drunken Irishman]

21. No. Biden needs to pull the bill.

It's a complete and utter disaster for his presidency right now. Cut his losses, pull the bill, hold a press conference and lay the blame at Manchin's feet.

[WA-03 Democrat]

32. Yes

[Dave says]

33. I agree

I fear we’re looking at a 2010 disaster all over again.

[Drunken Irishman]

39. No. This is worse.

At least the Democrats got something out of the 2010 disaster by passing the ACA.

As it stands right now, they're looking at getting crushed without getting anything out of it.

[Dave says]

44. You are right

[JustAnotherGen]

22. I'm more concerned

About them supporting lifting the filibuster to pass the Voting Rights Act.

If BBB fails - it gives us a few more Senators - and makes both of them irrelevant.

[berni_mccoy]

23. Again, that's not going to happen with Manchin and Sinema

[JustAnotherGen]

55. How do you know?

Sinema may be the easier target here - she needs non white voters to win.


If what you are saying is true - then DU can just cease to exist. There will never be another Democratic Party member elected in America.

[Celerity]

41. IF BBB fails completely we are staring at a bad, bad 2022 defeat (plus Manchin and Sinema are very

likely NOT going to support a carve-out to the filibuster for voters rights, further driving in coffin nails)

If BBB fails - it gives us a few more Senators

surely you forgot the:

[flying_wahini]

24. Is it just me? I think it would be a LOT easier to find Republicans that will vote with us and

Forget these clowns? For all the wasted time and effort they could have just paid someone off.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

35. No Republicans will vote for it.

It's all 50 Democrats, or it won't happen.

[czarjak]

25. Standing strong when you're wrong isn't just for Republicans anymore.

[Jon King]

27. Lawrence O'Donnell predicted last week Manchin would do exactly this.

Lawrence is an expert at reading politicians. When his guests were excited early last week that Machin appeared to not object to the $1.75 trillion, he said just wait. He said Manchin would wait for the cameras and when the bill seemed to be progressing, he would say he had a problem with it.

Sadly it will very likely cost the Dems Congress next year and may even hand Trump back the White House.

[jmbar2]

28. Nah. He's been paid off.

Will take the money and retire rich. Cares nothing about anyone else.

[bluewater]

29. K&R

[demosurvivor]

30. I trust these two

about as far as I can throw my car. And they are helping destroy our democracy along with Trump.

So much for winning the House, Senate, and White house, eh? I am extremely dissapointed in our political system.

Then there's this..... Manchin: I care about my 10 grandchildren. I can't do this to them...... This is total bullshit. No one in the past has ever stopped a bill from passing by using the grandchildren as an excuse. If anything, they should use the grandchildren as a reason to pass these bills. Go back to the 10 trillion we started with and lets go UP from there. For the GRANDCHILDREN!!! There's only a few that actually care about the future of this planet and it's inhabitants, and they have clearly said so.

[Celerity]

42. now now, those Manchin grandchildren need those tens of millions of dollars from

[634-5789]

31. AMEN!

[LiberalLovinLug]

34. Sinema: I'm ready now Joe! Go ahead and kick the ball!

[hibbing]

36. Nope n/t

[Celerity]

37. he likely wants that remaining $550 billion for green energy mostly yanked from BBB, the same way he

absolutely GUTTED the BIF, stripped an absolute shit tonne of direct climate change $$'s and tax credits out


we already said bye bye to almost 80% of the bi-partisan bill's new spend/tax incentives

The Infrastructure Plan: What’s In and What’s Out (it's brutal)


Biden's original proposal:





What was left after Manchin, Sinema, and the so-called 'moderate' Rethugs (the very ones that Manchin and Sinema constantly hype as needing to be catered to) took a 2.05 trillion USD hatchet to it:

[budkin]

43. Nope

They want it dead. Period.

[bluestarone]

51. Maybe just maybe someone has something BIG

On Joe's wife? (never know i guess)

[aurora the great]

54. No. What?

[Voltaire2]

56. They will vote for the final bill.

That bill will be a total of 100B all for new weapons systems for cops.