Joe Manchin NEVER INTENDED to let BBB pass in any form. He wants ONLY the BIF passed.

[CousinIT]

And NOTHING else.

[FBaggins]

1. How will we ever know?

Unless someone holds a vote on the BIF

[qazplm135]

5. lol

translation: I agree with Manchin. We don't really need BBB, I just want BIF.

[FBaggins]

7. Well... if your translation of his position is as accurate as your guess at mine...

... then we'll have BBB done pretty quickly.

[qazplm135]

8. you've posted more than enough

to know your position, despite your protestations otherwise...be keep being like Manchin if you want.

[FBaggins]

9. As I implied above

You're apparently lousy at this.

You aren't even close. I just call 'em like I see 'em.

[bluewater]

12. lol "How will we ever know?"

Last edited Mon Nov 1, 2021, 04:25 PM - Edit history (1)

You are absolutely correct!

That's a real knee-slapper!

It's like we all weren't watching Manchin "negotiate in ggod faith" all last month and then throw up more "concerns" to block the Build Back Better reconciliation bill today.

[FBaggins]

26. Looks like we'll find out soon enough

Progressives are now saying that they'll pass BIF and trust the President to close the deal with Manchin.

[Celerity]

27. +10000000000000000

[berni_mccoy]

2. Agreed

[ColinC]

3. Pull the bif and start over. This time start the reconciliation negotiations at 20T

He wants to say there are political games being played? So let's play them.

[FBaggins]

10. Which you think results in what?

Hasn't he made it clear that we don't have any leverage over him?

I thought that it has been clear for months... but surely you can see it now?

[ColinC]

13. He was adamant at getting the bif through, and it isn't happening unless he can compromise

...by voting for the reconciliation. Not passing anything would be as big a loss to him as it would be for the president but he still thinks he can get things exactly his way.

So to answer you question, it would result in sending a clear message to Manchin that he isn't actually in charge, and he doesn't actually call the shots. Or he can just do it the easy way and vote for both bills. His choice.

[FBaggins]

17. I don't think that I would make that bet

We'll see soon enough.

[ColinC]

21. Same. Although I don't see a ton of good options if he sticks to his way or the highway

So I would hope he somehow just turns into a reasonable person overnight.

[FBaggins]

25. Maybe not "good options"... but there's a clear option

.His way.

Progressive Caucus Chair Jayapal To Manchin: "We Intend To Pass Both Bills"

Progressive Caucus Chair Rep. Pramila Jayapal told CNN Monday afternoon that the House Democrats will let President Biden "handle" Sens. Kyrsten Sinema and Joe Manchin and vote yes on both the "Build Back Better" bill and the bipartisan infrastructure bill this week.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2021/11/01/progressive_caucus_chair_jayapal_no_comment_on_manchins_shell_game_statement.html

So BIF passes and we'll find out whether he's been telling the truth - rather than just assume that he's lying.

[ColinC]

31. Oh he isn't lying, he still hasn't committed to voting for it.

Unless you count the fact that every time his new conditions are met, he still won't commit to it.

[ColinC]

32. But to add that even if he doesn't vote for it, he is in a place where

It wouldn't be a lie. Since he never has said he will vote for it. At least not to the public.

[LonePirate]

4. Pass both or pass neither. We need to end his extortion of the Dem party.

[CentralMass]

6. Manchin's @$$ has been kissed enough.

[FBaggins]

11. What an ironic post

How do you define "extortion" if it doesn't include "pass both or pass neither"?

[LonePirate]

14. Manchin only wants BIF. He wants BBB to fail. If he won't pass BBB then his precious BIF should die.

He can be a team player and work for the good of everyone or he can go sit in the corner with nothing.

[FBaggins]

15. How strange

I could have sworn that it was President Biden's infrastructure bill.

Manchin wanted it separate for the same reason that Progressives wanted it in one package (to gain leverage over the rest of the package)... but it's hardly "his" precious BIF.

[qazplm135]

16. no it's Manchin's Bill

BBB is President Biden's bill. You seem confused.

[FBaggins]

19. I don't think I'm the one that's confused.

Or perhaps you're calling POTUS a liar?

FACT SHEET: President Biden Announces Support for the Bipartisan Infrastructure Framework

Today, President Biden and Vice President Harris announced their support for the Bipartisan Infrastructure Framework, the largest long-term investment in our infrastructure and competitiveness in nearly a century – an investment that will make our economy more sustainable, resilient, and just.

The President came into office promising to find common ground to get things done – and he’s delivering on that promise.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/06/24/fact-sheet-president-biden-announces-support-for-the-bipartisan-infrastructure-framework/

Yes... the President wants both... but it's flat untrue that he wants BBB and not BIF.

[qazplm135]

22. so he announced his support

for "his" bill? lol

Seems kinda redundant if it's "his" bill wouldn't ya think?

[qazplm135]

18. at least the same as

pass one or I won't vote for the other one.

[FBaggins]

23. As soon as someone says that... you'll have a point

All he's said is that he won't vote for something that isn't fully fleshed out and scored and that there are specific parts that he won't vote for. But leadership wanted his commitment now on an artificial deadline. A better Democrat would have found a way to give it to them since the President is on the world stage and tomorrow's election is potentially devastating if we can't pull off a win... but we don't have 50 better Democrats.

[qazplm135]

24. I get that you are doing an audtion for Manchin's press secretary

but nah.

[ColinC]

34. It's been what 6 months? Is asking for his commitment now really so much to ask?

Your point stands though: we don't have 50 better democrats and giving one up would be absolutely devastating given our pace of confirming federal judges.

[wellst0nev0ter]

20. Then we continue using that leverage against him

No BBB, then no BIF.

Pass the two bills as is, or burn the democratic party and Biden's agenda to the ground.

Let them try.

[FBaggins]

28. Nope

Link to tweet

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1455247141992022016%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.realclearpolitics.com%2Fvideo%2F2021%2F11%2F01%2Fprogressive_caucus_chair_jayapal_no_comment_on_manchins_shell_game_statement.html

Jayapal signals that Manchin's comments will NOT impact progressives. Says they will vote FOR the infrastructure bill and $1.75T plan

"The president says he can get 51 votes for the bill, we are going to trust him ... We're tired of continuing to wait for one or two people."

[wellst0nev0ter]

29. Sounds like progressives are ready to vote for both bills

Will Manchinema?

[FBaggins]

33. No - it sounds like the decoupling is complete

Progressives aren't accepting the President's "framework" (which presumably is what could pass the Senate) so they're going to add back in the parental leave, prescription drugs, and perhaps the immigration pieces... then pass both in the House and claim victory.

Then presumably the Senate will pass something closer to what was already agreed to and it will go to conference.

There's an outside possibility that "trusting" the President includes him holding off on signing BIF until the Senate comes closer.

[wellst0nev0ter]

35. Progressive have approached the holdouts

while the holdouts have played games.

No more.

[CentralMass]

36. The President and the other 48 in the caucus were onboard with the $3.5 trillion bill to begin with.

This whittled down bill was to appease Sinema and Manchin and now Manchin won't even vote for the gutted bill. Your logic escapes me.

[FBaggins]

37. The President also asked the House to pass BIF last week

And yet there was no vote.

now Manchin won't even vote for the gutted bill.

Perhaps you missed the last couple of days?

He didn’t say that he wouldn’t support the “gutted” framework. What he wouldn’t vote for was the newly un-gutted bill that progressives were pushing him to agree to (adding back in immigration, prescription drugs, and parental leave).

[CentralMass]

40. Manchin can go pound sand.

[LiberalFighter]

30. History will not look kindly on him.

May his children and family be permanently smeared.

[UTUSN]

38. K&R

[UTUSN]

39. K&R