why I just deleted two op's I posted on the secret ceremony Mormon video

[trailmonkee]

Last edited Mon Oct 22, 2012, 06:15 PM - Edit history (1)

(Note added at bottom)

It wasn't because I found out that the information was bogus. It wasn't because I felt that it was unfair for us to be posting this. And it definitely wasn't because I thought it was unfair politically.

I deleted them because, after some thought, I Realized I was propagating an old way of thinking.... That old way, is a way of seeing others as being separate from us.... Which is not what I believe. If enough people decided not to point the finger at another person and say that is not me.... Then we might start evolving as a people.

Sorry to get so sappy about this, but frankly, it hit me like a ton of bricks, I need to Feel like the information that I am spreading is moving us towards being an evolved species... Not the hateful, war-ing, selfish, greedy Beings we have been for millennia.

It's going to be tough Maintaining this Attitude for myself while posting because I get totally freaked out during elections... And it's very easy to get caught up in slinging whatever we need to sling at the other person in order to win. There is a lot at stake here but honestly, I don't want to win if we have to win by being Just as ugly and devolved as the other guys.

Wish me luck with this one?



Added note: I believe the actions of this religious organization and many other religious organizations are deplorable. Religion in and of itself has caused millions upon millions to suffer... However much of this suffering would've been eliminated, if these religions would've been inclusive and not separating out others. The whole idea of religion, for the most part, is to be in a group that is separate from others, everybody else is bad, we are fine.

I personally would feel better, focusing on the actions of these religions, how they hate and their Attitude of non-inclusion hurts others. Not how weird they look in their costumes and how bizarre their ceremonies are?

[msongs]

1. ummm a group that perceives itself as the "chosen people" IS different from "us" and should be

monitored, as you will learn from the door knockers who are peddling their religion because it is the best thing going around and all others are invalid.

the prophecies say one of the chosen will be president one day....and not just as a random event

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Nothing personal but you could be talking about Jews too

We are, after all not just the people of the book but the Chosen People.

Just an FYI.

[Ikonoklast]

9. I never personally knew or heard of one Jewish person that wouldn't discuss their faith with me

when asked.

In fact, a couple that I asked wouldn't shut up!

No secrets there.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. That is not the point

the point, oh never mind, the OP did make the point magnificently...

And of course you have never met a Jew OUTSIDE the US, or read accounts of Jews early in US History, where they were spoken off as secretive and all that.

But whatever, carry on.

[karynnj]

23. Depends what meaning of chosen you believe in

In reconstructionist Judaism the idea is that chosen simply means that Jews were the people who accepted the laws. In a way this could be analogous to Democrats who said that America is exceptional when it does exceptional things. In both cases, it is through "right" actions that the group has merit.

I agree with the op's logic in removing those posts.

[slackmaster]

6. Yes, we certainly should keep an eye on those so-called "chosen people."

[trailmonkee]

8. but that could have easily been me....that's what I'm saying...

If you put yourself in the other guys Shoes, you can see how they might be at fault, but they shouldn't be treated as not being equals...

Believe me, I think that there is ample justification for posting the videos and fighting fire with fire.... But we can be doing this forever, as I mentioned in my op, we've been doing this sort of stuff for millennia, and the only way to get out of the cycle, is to understand that we are all the same, period.

[Bluenorthwest]

39. But the folks you are defended spent millions to make actual law saying I am not

equal. They removed and barred us from actual legal rights. Yet you claim that if we discuss so much as the facts of their rituals, that is not equal treatment? They put my rights up for a vote, kid. But they must not be discussed? Some really inequal treatment you are dishiing out there. They get to advocate for the inequality of others, but those others must not so much as mention their rituals? How do you work that out?
Would you have refused to march in Selma for fear of making the Klan feel 'separate'? I'm guessing so.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. Forgive me, but Mormons were not the only ones to make

separate but equal laws... or perhaps I am off in my history.

And the KKK was an organization that did not rise from Mormonism.

be critical of POLICIES all you want, but there are things I will not join you in, like creation of the other.

Now I am sure you are proof positive that because of this I would vote for Romney? No, we differ in way too many policy positions, but it has zero to do with his religion and all to do with his policies.

The laws to keep the races separated in the South were passed by Southern Baptists in many a cases.

[riderinthestorm]

48. We are talking about Mormon actions today which Mitt Rmoney supports.

Church policies today that are discriminatory.

Calling out a hate group didn't used to be such a problem.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. Call then out all you want

I will NOT join you in hate. SORRY.

I will join you and others in calling out the POLICIES that are discriminatory, but you see, INSIDE their own faith, and their own churches, they are pretty much free and clear... SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

This is right now heading to the USSC over a certain section of the ACA most likely, regarding the Catholic Church.


Sorry if I find it comical to stand against a hate group by creating hate.

[OldDem2012]

59. When religious groups and/or cults start calling for the overthrow of the US Government....

....that's where I draw the line, and that's where I become HIGHLY critical of said group.

Thanks for giving me and everyone else who disagrees with you permission to speak freely on this issue. Your attempt to quash discussion on this matter is laughable.

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. Have a good life

and enjoy your hate. Goodbye.

I am not quashing anybody's ability to speak, but at this point, I shan't engage in your creation of the other, bye bye

(And for the record, the powerful Mormom Militia is posed to take over DC right now)

[zappaman]

84. "Have a good life"

The last resort when you realize you have lost the argument.

[GoneOffShore]

96. And that's the point that many are missing here.

If the Mormons fulfill their prophecy through Mittens all bets are off as regards separation of church and state.

[riderinthestorm]

64. So trying to educate DUers (or anyone) on their disgusting dogma is "hating"?

Oh they can be as free as they like in church. But the policies jumped the boundaries of the separation wall LONG ago. Mitt and Ann Rmoney haven't disavowed their church's actions. There's been no public pronunciation that their church won't influence their governance.

In fact, as just one example Mitt's record on women's equality in top positions seems to imply he DOES believe women are inferior (like his church teaches), just like the Catholic Church/Ryan's positions on birth control and abortion are completely synonymous in his legislative efforts.

[vanlassie]

66. Forgive me but how is shining a light on their beliefs and actions

"joining in hate?". It was necessary to shine a light in the haters of your people, wasn't it? How is this in and of itself hateful? We are the reality based party!

[GoneOffShore]

76. Lots of crickets.

[nadinbrzezinski]

77. Forgive me if I do not join you in the creation of the other

shine all you want... it is so damn funny... but I replace a few terms and what is posted here regularly could have been posted at Free Republic, you read right, a few years back about Obama.

Sorry, I find this disgusting.

Yes, I will fight the LDS (and any other denomination) at the POLICY LEVEL. I will not make fun of how they look, or their religious believes.

If you cannot understand why this is a problem, quite frankly it is an ugly problem. You are now engaged in the creation of the other. Enjoy that... I won't join you.

And damn it, you do not need to create a slew of reasons to vote against Romney, his POLICIES, his KNOWN POLICIES are enough to tell me I do not want to vote for him, and by extension his policies.

[zappaman]

86. How's the weather up there on that high horse of yours?

Cloudy?

[vanlassie]

97. Shining light does not "create the other."

If a very religious person, one who is a leader in his church, wants to be my country's leader, taking a close look at what it is he represents is my right and my responsibility. I am not making him ANYTHING by sharing what I found out.

I'm Not making him OTHER. But to be honest, from what I have been able to tell, the SECRECY of his church seems to me to be a deliberate "setting ones self apart..." as OTHER.

[nadinbrzezinski]

98. Could it be... that they are afraid of persecution since they were

victims of it? Nah, that could not be.

Not at all. I mean, we all know that minorities who have been subjected to significant amounts of persecution are always open and cheerful... yup, really.

Same as people did with Kennedy. And the, but the church is full of secrets... I have read the same exact crap, albeit in Spanish, over the Jewish Community in Mexico City. The exact same crap.

I disagree with the man on policy, I will not vote for the man, sorry if I do not join you in "shining light" and find that disgusting. I mean, we all know that the creation of the other never, ever leads to problems.

Have an excellent day.

The OP did well, learn from the OP.

[trailmonkee]

61. focus on the hate... not that they look different...

Question, do you think i should add a note to the op that i don't support the actions of the lds church? The whole point of my op was that we are trying to make them look different than us with these videos to make them out as freaks.... That's what I think is wrong with these videos. That's what made me feel uncomfortable. That's why I took down the Ops.

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. And I agree with you

some people, this is what is funny, are using hate, to speak against hate.

We have crossed some kind of rubicon here.

[riderinthestorm]

67. Those videos show women SHROUDED. The men are not. Its demonstrable proof women are subservient

are we not supposed to say anything about that? Its a church doctrine and demonstrably proven by Mitt's public and private service records.

Is pointing that out "hating"? Not only do the women "look" different in that video, Mitt also treats them different in real time.

But saying anything about THAT is hating huh.

Pointing out that gay people are not allowed in those ceremonies is "hateful"?

Frankly, if you are NOT speaking out about the Mormon stuff on that video, then I believe it shows YOU are the one who is moving away from progressive ideals.

[trailmonkee]

80. Definitely good point.

That can be one thing that can be taken away from this video that is positive, that they are Subverting women, And that is a problem with the religion as a whole. You don't have to watch these videos to figure that out. but frankly I don't think that's what these videos will do, I think it will just make Mormons look weird in the eyes of evangelicals. I don't think anybody else who really care.

[Angry Dragon]

2. There is a huge difference between having a belief than acting on that belief

If a person is a racist bigot and just holds that belief they hurt no one except themselves
If they act on that belief then they hurt others, that is when it is everyones' business.

If a person believes in a god and live their life based on that belief, so what. If that belief starts to be forced on others then the others have the right to slap that person and belief down.

That is the difference.

[PotatoChip]

5. +1

I totally agree.

[Cha]

12. Thank you, Angry Dragon... BIG DIFFERENCE.

[OldDem2012]

19. Bingo. Huge difference, especially if that belief involves....

...replacing our civil government with a Mormon government.

Not buying that, or the takeover of the US Government by any religious group.

[riderinthestorm]

26. Even more so when that belief involves blocking civil rights for Americans (GLBT) nt

[OldDem2012]

52. Agree 100%. nt.

[trailmonkee]

91. This video doesn't talk about That, or show that?

That's why I took it down, it's because I didn't feel like we were showing the problems with the churches inaction with others, And how hurtful they can be towards others, but how weird they look?

[riderinthestorm]

95. I will bet you $1 brazilion dolllars we will NEVER see a gay couple kneeling together

in front of the white suited man in a temple ceremony.

The video SCREAMS that out loud if you had any sensitivity to the LDS church and its despicable actions towards the GLBT community.

You don't think gays don't see that right away? Honestly, you don't see that right away?? Its visceral and ugly. And deserves commentary and public shaming.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Thanks

the creation of the other is precisely one thing I have been trying, unsuccessfully, to adress in the recent past and quite frankly gave up on.

[slackmaster]

7. Kudos to you, trailmonkee, for putting principle ahead of politics

My main objection to the videos is that they were made without the permission of the people whose private activities were recorded, but I absolutely agree with you about the backwardness of xenophobia.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. And wonders never cease

AGREED.

I admit the curiosity was there, but what I saw was part and parcel of US Religious history... big whoopy deal.

[Bluenorthwest]

22. Official LDS teachings until 1978 was that black people are inferior and hence denied

full participation in the world's doings. In 1978 Mitt was a 31 year old man with a high position in the church, he had taken that racist dogma to other countries as 'missionary' and he swore his belief that blacks are inferior again and again. I think that history of Mitt's, his own personal histroy, is very important. I also think that it is unlike Christian denominations as a whole.
Also, for me all their anti gay political activities when coupled with their secrecy makes them more of a lodge or club than a faith, I have no idea if they really have a religion in that Temple, I just see what they do in the world. Teach racism and bigotry, organize against others and boost the GOP. ARE they a religion? I have no idea. Their teachings sound like White Supremacy materials and Masonic mumbo jumbo tossed like a salad. I say they are a lodge, a club, a social group.
Mitt taught racism until he was 31. Big whoopy deal.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. And, i can point to other religious denominations

with similar ugly believes

[Bluenorthwest]

33. Then do so. Then point to the candidate for President from one of them who

was a 'missionary' who carried those ugly beliefs forth into the world, then was a leader in such a demonination preaching the inferiority of black people until he was 31 and the denom changed it's tune. Feel free.
That's what makes this important. A man who was an open racist until he was 31 is running for President. The religion really should not make that fact somehow protected and misty. He was a man who taught others that blacks are inferior from age 18-31, as a committed member of a racist lodge, or club. They call it a church, to me it is more like the Masons without the sense of irony. A lodge. The Mormon Lodge.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Should i mention to you the 1960 election?

Sorry if I shan't join you in the creation of the other....

[Bluenorthwest]

44. The LDS had me legally declared 'the Other' Nadin. Spent millions in your state to

revoke our rights. But that's of no concern, the real problem is criticism of them and their actions....
You said you had a list of other denominations with 'similar ugly beliefs'. I also asked you to point to ANY candidate for President who had been an open racist and advocated segregation until 1978 at age 31. You failed to show those things.
A racist and homophobic group is other from me. I am NOT that. They are that. I have zero problem standing separate from the Klan nor the LDS or any other bigoted group. I have no desire to make some show of accepting those who march against the basic human rights of others.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. Look I wil fighnt THEIR POLICIES

but I will not demonize them, different thing.

I also will vote for RIGHTS, not against rights.

But this is stupid to the nth degree and smacks of... ready for this? JFK is a Catholic and will have to obey the orders from the Pope.

FIGHT THEM AT THE BALLOT BOX, FIGHT THEM AT THE POLICY LEVEL, FIGHT THEM, but DO NOT MAKE THEM WHAT YOU WISH THEY WERE NOT MAKING YOU LIKE.

Now if you insist, consider myself your enemy... since I will NOT join you there. For the record, I will not join anybody making another group the other.

But I am your enemy... since I will not join you in this very dangerous fools errand. And you know what? I am proud to be one. You know why? I know where this foolishness leads to, no mater WHO does it.

[riderinthestorm]

51. JFK (and Biden) made specific assurances that the church and its theology were separate

from his governance.

Mitt Rmoney (and Ryan) have made no such assurances. In fact there is demonstrable proof of their church theologies are at work in their public political actions. From Mitt Rmoney's apparent lack of women in top leadership roles to Ryan's disgusting anti-choice legislative efforts, there's tangible evidence that these two men do NOT separate their religion from the state. In fact, they'd tie the two closer together stepping over important constitutional lines.

The Mormon church is a hate group. Calling them out for that isn't making them "the other" its simply pointing out facts.

[zappaman]

54. +1000 n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. Good bye

I will no longer engage the haters... and that is what you are doing... enjoy the hate.

(Perhaps it is coming from family history)

Good bye

[zappaman]

87. You leaving DU...

...yet again?!

[Waiting For Everyman]

53. WTF???

I hope you're not going to try to equate JFK's meticulous and directly stated separation of his religion from politics, with Mitten's Mormonism in any way, shape, or form? That would be not only fact-free, but highly offensive.

(I'd assume you must've meant Nixon's Quaker religion, except it's so obvious that didn't interfere with his warmongering at all.)

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. No, I am telling you what was said in whisper campaigns

everywhere...

Sorry, have a good life, enjoy the hate.

[Waiting For Everyman]

92. Nobody was whispering, direct questions about it were publicly stated -- and answered.

I remember the 1960 campaign quite clearly, including the debates. JFK was extremely open, sincere, and believable about his position on his religion... which is exactly the same as the one held by Biden today, as he just stated again in the VP debate. I also remember the Kennedy administration, and he kept to his word and kept religion out of governing -- that is why people became more comfortable electing Catholics to office as it is today. JFK opened that door by keeping his word, as others since then have NOT.

I've seen some cheap shots, but trying to equate JFK and Mittens is reaching way too far to make a point. I'll say it again -- OFFENSIVE!

[GoneOffShore]

74. Well put.

Unfortunately very few here are willing to answer the question you asked.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

13. Had no problem with the video but learned more from this one.

[riderinthestorm]

14. Mormons have an "us" vs. "them" mentality already. They've separated themselves

Last edited Mon Oct 22, 2012, 05:17 PM - Edit history (1)

And created "secret" oaths that violate the US Constitution. We used to be able to call out a cult and not be called "hateful, war-ing, greedy, ugly or devolved". Especially when this cult has propagated their own separateness themselves.

Frankly, the theology of this particular religion has serious implications for the United States. Until or unless Mitt Rmoney demonstrates that he could or would lead the country independently of his religion, I believe its fair game to scrutinize his Mormon faith.

Fact is, for one example, the Mormon faith believes women are second class citizens. In the video, the women are full veiled - shrouded like their second class citizens in Islam. Their dogma teaches them that women are NOT equal to men. Women cannot hold powerful top church positions. Mitt's history as governor and as CEO of Bain indicates that he not only believes that but its demonstrably proven in his tenure.

Furthermore the Mormon "church's" hateful direct actions to block civil rights for Americans (GLBT) means they deserve scrutiny and critique if valid.

[catbyte]

15. ALL religion is dangerous when mixed with politics. fair game.

[Callmecrazy]

27. All religions are political. So fair game all around.

[Angry Dragon]

38. Not all religions .......

[Blue_In_AK]

16. I see your point,

but I think there's some validity in pointing out the quirks of a candidate's religious beliefs in the interests of full disclosure. We certainly had no qualms about illuminating santorum's religious beliefs, for example. With Mormonism being such a secretive religion, it would seem to be our duty to expose it. I personally found that video troubling.

[Skidmore]

17. So, pray tell, waht is the "new" way of thinking.

I personally have no objection to letting people learn more about this religion. We know much about Catholicism and Protestantism in this nation, but little about Mormonism. I learned quite a lot from those videos. AND for the first time during an election, I'm not interested in fighting fair. We've done it for too long. Women and minority groups and the elderly and children all have too much to lose this round.

[VOX]

18. I hear what you're saying, but my faith in humans isn't strong....

Since the dawn of time, various groups of humans have forced themselves on what they perceive as "others," something less than human, killing them, enslaving them, occupying their lands, making them submit to dogmas, etc. History informs us that taking the higher moral ground could translate to self-destruction of a group.

While I applaud your noble effort to be a small part of the need to break this cycle, I believe that sometimes pushing back is actually the necessary path, even if it means there could be some tragic consequences in achieving the greater good.

Think of what was at stake in the American Civil War, for example. Or the defeat of Nazi Germany. In these and other cases, avoiding conflict would have had dire consequences for this nation and the world at large.

Would you consider the Southern Poverty Law Center's tracking and ID-ing hate groups to constitute an "unevolved" undertaking? As for the Church of LDS, it's important for all Americans to know and comprehend its history, practices and core beliefs. There's no harm in putting the information out there, and allowing for informed decisions.

[Bluenorthwest]

20. So that means that when the LDS says 'gays are the Other, judge them' you will

be unified with LDS? To show how equality oriented you are, you will defend those who attack equal rights? They are not me. I am evolved. Accepting a hate club is not evolution, it is just accepting a hate club. I will not wish you luck on accepting a hate club. Why? Because what you are actually doing is promoting a hate club, minimizing the actual harm they do to actual people by claiming it is all about those they attack 'accepting' them. Fuck that.
This is not an ashram, this is partisan politics, which is defined by opposing the other Party. To refuse to oppose them is to join them.

[trailmonkee]

75. Who the fuck said I'm unified with the LDS?

The only way we can beat these people is to not do what they do. They point fingers and say hey look at the freaks, they are different , that's why we should hate them. The videos that I've been going around have been doing exactly that, it's saying hey look at the weird ceremonies they have, and look at the weird outfits they wear.

There are much more substantive things we can do to combat the hatred of this religion and others. Pointing out how they look and how weird they are, just doesn't feel right to me, sorry man.

[RomneyLies]

21. The right wing forced their war on me.

There are no rules of civility in this war they started.

I aim to win this war, Fuck being nice to the bastards.

[Bluenorthwest]

24. This sounds odd, that the Republicans are not separate, but instead your good buds

to be protected from the evil liberals when they go forth to spread intolerance and bigotry....

[eShirl]

25. love

[Logical]

29. Well, you are not making any sense to me. I guess anti-gay religions should...

Not be called out either? Major fail on your part!

[trailmonkee]

34. Then we should focus on how its wrong to hate, not how weird they look

That's exactly what they do to us.

I am not at all trying to be self-righteous, This just feels better for me.

[Logical]

40. Well, then don't sy anything bad about the GOP either! n-t

[trailmonkee]

46. no way, the actions of the gop cause millions to suffer....

But I can give a flying fuck if they like nascar...

[Logical]

49. SaMe with religion!

[riderinthestorm]

55. And you don't think the actions of the Mormon church aren't making people suffer??!

Really??

Mitt Rmoney hasn't denounced ANY of those actions. Nor has he distanced himself from those actions. In fact, he has made absolutely no statements disavowing some pretty disgusting church policy or the church's influence on him if he should become president.

[Waiting For Everyman]

30. Fuck the Mormon mafia.

And the dressage horse it rode in on. They swear vengeance against this country. They openly state their will to take it over. They believe in forcing others to observe their beliefs (which are nuts). I believe in the separation of church and state, and the right of everyone to live free from the domination of some other self-important chump.

They are very separate and "other" from me, and they are very separate and "other" from my country, and that's THEIR decision which I will not pretend not to see, nor excuse it away. I have nothing in common with that mentality. We in the West have allowed bullyism to flourish and prosper since the 70's, and singing Kumbaya to it is a fool's errand. WW2 proved that to my satisfaction, as well as the political "bipartisanship" which has failed spectacularly for 40 years. The experiment time on that is over -- it's a flop.

Decide what you want, but I'm not with you on that.

[trailmonkee]

42. Your points are all well taken, but we shouldn't focus on How weird they are.

I wouldn't disagree with anything you Just said.

But they can be cured by exactly what I'm talking about.

If Mormons weren't to take Out the element of separation themselves, from their religion, it Would remove the hate, which is exactly what you're pointing out.

[krawhitham]

31. And people wonder why they win more than we do

[redqueen]

37. +1

[cthulu2016]

32. Castigating the LDS is more a step toward being an evolved species than not doing so

[trailmonkee]

56. focus on their actions instead.. not their ceremonies

Their stance on lgbt, etc is what needs to be pointed out, not that they wear wacky costumes and have scary bull statutes on their temples

[cthulu2016]

62. You are lecturing me about some position you've held for an hour?!

Last edited Mon Oct 22, 2012, 06:46 PM - Edit history (1)

[braddy]

83. LOL, good point.

[quinnox]

36. Frankly, all the mormon stuff is starting to smack of desperation

It's getting kind of embarrassing here IMHO. I'm seeing OPs like with the idea that its a bad thing that mormons give 10% of their income to charity, as if this is a terrible moral failing or something, lol. Or trying to make out mormonism as some kind of dangerous David Koresh like cult with secret plans to annihilate America. Meanwhile, in reality, most of the truly dangerous cults have been offshoots of Christianity, like the Branch Davidians. Or the people who end up doing mass killings for crazed religious reasons end up being Christians or other religions, its never the mormons. It has definitely become the silly season.

As someone who has been friends with a mormon for a very long time, I'm just shaking my head and feeling amused at some of this stuff.

[Angry Dragon]

41. A church is not a charity

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. yup

[OldDem2012]

65. Do the Mormons believe in replacing the US Government with one led by Mormons, or not?....

....Do you personally think that's okay, or not?

[quinnox]

68. I don't know, ask Harry Reid

He is a very high placed powerful Democrat and a mormon to boot. Maybe he is in on this conspiracy?

[riderinthestorm]

89. Reid (and JFK and Biden) has made specific assurances that church and state are separate

Paul Ryan had the same opportunity at the last VP debate to do the same and he declined. That leads me to believe by Ryan's (non) statements and his actions on abortion, birth control etc. that he does not believe in the separation of church and state.

Rmoney has also not made any statement that the Mormon church will be completely separate from his governance.

Reid has. Here's a recent example on same sex marriage (which the LDS vociferously opposes in theology and practice)

"‘I Believe That People Should Be Able To Marry Whomever They Want’ | Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV), who personally opposes marriage equality, has responded to President Obama’s embrace of same-sex marriage by issuing an extremely supportive statement reiterating that his private beliefs should not prevent people from marrying “whomever they want”:

“My personal belief is that marriage is between a man and a woman. But in a civil society, I believe that people should be able to marry whomever they want, and it’s no business of mine if two men or two women want to get married. The idea that allowing two loving, committed people to marry would have any impact on my life, or on my family’s life, always struck me as absurd.

“In talking with my children and grandchildren, it has become clear to me they take marriage equality as a given. I have no doubt that their view will carry the future.

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/05/09/481548/reid-marriage/?mobile=nc

[aletier_v]

93. "Rmoney has also not made any statement..."

" that the Mormon church will be completely separate".


ha ha.

Would it matter if he did?

You can't trust a single word he says.

[GoneOffShore]

71. I think that that is the point of all this

And the point that some folks are completely missing in order to not offend Mormons or members of other religions.

I'm seeing a lot of false equivalency and pole vaulting over mouse turds in order to not address the question of the cult of Mormonism and its stance on theocratic rule. There is a lot of denial because, "I know Mormons and they're not like that," and "What if we asked the same questions of Jews?" and "This is being divisive and taking us back to the days of the Know Nothings."

Bull shit.

The whole thing about Mitt and his clan is that they would appear to be true believers in "The White Horse Prophecy" and that LDS'ers are destined by god to take over the US. He has done nothing to deny this in any respect. It should be one of the foremost questions asked by us all.

[Jamastiene]

69. Lol, we'll all still be here when you run out of cheeks.

It is a shitty idea, but good luck to you anyhow. For the record, the Mormons have made the entire rest of the Earth and earthlings "the other." And they invested millions of dollars into Prop 8. Once they did that, that makes them fair game. End of story. For me, they are total assholes who have it coming for that shit alone.

[trailmonkee]

70. but they aren't all assholes, what they support is fucked up....

And they definitely aren't assholes because of the way they dress and because of their ceremonies.

I added a note at the bottom of my op because it seems like a lot of people really weren't understanding where it was coming from. I am no way support the actions of the church, I just don't want us to be in the same category as them pointing fingers at other people saying hey look at the Freaks.

[GoneOffShore]

72. I think you were wrong to delete the videos.

They really had nothing to do with the weirdness of the ceremony, but rather the intention behind those ceremonies.

[trailmonkee]

78. then that could be explained with words

The Video is an invasion of privacy. One person pointed out. And I don't see any reason For the videos other than to make Mormons look weird in the eyes of Christians. I think everybody else can give a flying fuck what they do and what they look like, but evangelical Christians will look at this and they will say these people are weird and I don't want to vote for Mitt Romney. That's why I think I was posting these videos in the first place, because somewhere in the back of my mind, I wanted evangelicals to see this, and discriminate against Mormons because the way they look at the way they have their weird ceremonies.

Just trying to take the high road here.

[GoneOffShore]

82. The theocrat wannabee's don't take the high road. And

Unless we thwart them before they get power, we'll never be able to thwart them. "The Handmaid's Tale" could well become reality.

[forestpath]

73. Mormonism is NOT a loving, positive belief system. It is an anti-woman, anti-black, anti-gay,

anti-democratic blight on humanity. I pretty much consider all Christian religions that way, although the Momon religion adds some extra layers of delusion on top of the standard Christian dogma.

I think organized religion is the most destructive force in the world, and I won't apologize for my opinion. I know there are many decent religious people but I will never understand the need so many have to filter their existence through what would be called science fiction or fairy tales if the majority of people were capable of thinking for themselves.

[Enrique]

79. fantastic post

i agree a million percent.

[trailmonkee]

88. Thanks, you would think that I just posted a picture of me eating a kitten.

I had no idea I would get such an intense response? I find it very telling that people are having a hard time distinguishing against peoples looks? And their actions?

The actions of the LDS church is what the problem is, not the video on how they dress and their ceremonies.

We should be pointing out how it's wrong for them to make other people feel like freaks, not pointing fingers at them saying hey look at the freaks?

[riderinthestorm]

90. You agree with me on their costuming for women in the videos in post #80

and the real time political implications but now its all back to this again?

Hypocrisy knows no bounds.

[Nye Bevan]

81. Good decision. If a Jewish person was running for President,

would people be posting and mocking videos of Jewish ceremonies? I don't think so.

[quinnox]

85. excellent point

and further, I really doubt the Jews would be called a cult either just because they happen to have a small amount of the total world population in terms of believers, just like the Mormons do.

[Floyd_Gondolli]

94. All religions are cults IMO

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't show their practitioners a basic level of respect. Anyway impressive OP.

[Generic Other]

99. I am more alarmed by their beliefs toward ME than their rituals

If they have a history of labeling me inferior by reason of race, gender, or sexual orientation, then I believe I have the right to criticize their beliefs. If they have a history of judging me and find me wanting for these reasons, I am entitled to judge them by their actions, their honesty, their treatment of their neighbors to judge them by their character.

When Romney said he favored making undocumented workers so uncomfortable that they'd "self-deport," it was a foreshadowing of how the "other" would be treated in America under a Romney administration sanctioned by the Mormon church whose doctrines he espouses. He is a bishop in the church. He is also a politician. He cannot separate church and state. At least, he doesn't seem inclined to do so.

That is their strategy practiced toward outsiders. Neither buy nor sell to them. Shun them. Make them too uncomfortable to stay. Today, Romney suggests this is how he'd deal with illegal immigration, tomorrow it is how he would deal with the 47%. And that is why I will speak out against Romney and his church's beliefs.