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WhiskeyGrinder

(22,357 posts)
Tue Nov 9, 2021, 11:59 AM Nov 2021

There's Nothing Moderate About a Ban on Abortions at 15 Weeks

https://newrepublic.com/article/164261/mississippi-15-week-abortion-ban-texas

In 2010, Nebraska became the first state to pass a 20-week ban on abortion, but it certainly wasn’t the last. The law was soon emulated by several other states, including Idaho, Indiana, and Alabama. The real goal of those who pushed to codify the arbitrary 20-week mark as some sort of bright line—based on bogus science pushed by anti-abortion activists, who claimed a fetus could feel pain at that gestational age—was clear at the time and even more obvious now: It was meant, as one anti-abortion lobbyist put it, to “push the envelope” when it came to Roe v. Wade’s stance on viability.

These bans were unconstitutional and cruel—yet they were framed by their proponents as a reasonable, moderate compromise, seemingly supported by polls indicating a majority of Americans supported 20-week bans. (These polls are determined in no small part by their wording and framing. To quote the activist and writer Jenny Brown, one might of course get a different answer to these surveys if people were asked, “Do you think someone should be forced to carry and bear a baby against her will once she is 20 weeks pregnant?”)

As the Supreme Court, dominated by conservative, anti-abortion justices, is poised to hear oral arguments on Mississippi’s unconstitutional 15-week ban, a chorus of voices has emerged to say that banning abortions after three months is acceptable. But we should nip this foolish logic in the bud. A 15-week ban is not reasonable or moderate or a compromise worth swallowing, however reluctantly. Like any other ban at any point in someone’s pregnancy, we should recognize it for what it is—an assertion of the state’s power in determining when and how we’re made to have children, not a medical or moral middle ground.

(snip)

That these arguments were proposed just as Texas’s extremist abortion ban made its torturous way to the Supreme Court is no coincidence. Jezebel’s Susan Rinkunas wrote recently that if the court were to hear the cases together and only knock down Texas’s six-week ban, it would “look almost sensible to a certain segment of journalists and pundits—never mind that upholding a 15-week ban ignores 50 years of precedent and would eviscerate Roe without ever having to say it’s been overturned.” As Rinkunas put it, “It is not a compromise or a ‘win’ if the Supreme Court blocks one unconstitutional abortion law but upholds another. Allowing either of these laws to stand is a tragedy for abortion access.” The political rhetoric of compromise and moderation has become fetishized to the point of absurdity, and used to sell the entirely unpalatable. When it comes to abortion, we shouldn’t buy it.
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There's Nothing Moderate About a Ban on Abortions at 15 Weeks (Original Post) WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2021 OP
If we could all just agree 20 weeks is fair outside certain conditions like danger to mother Hugh_Lebowski Nov 2021 #1
Unfortunately, with abortion, a compromise mindset will always get you less than you hope for. WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2021 #2
I hear ya ... personally I think the least arbitrary date would be what is the earliest a baby has Hugh_Lebowski Nov 2021 #3
The least arbitrary date would be no time limit at all. WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2021 #4
Yeah, well, I think children are overrated, so ... fine by me :) Hugh_Lebowski Nov 2021 #5
What percentage of Americans support no restrictions at all? Polybius Nov 2021 #7
Seven states have no gestational limit. WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2021 #8
K&R Solly Mack Nov 2021 #6
evening kick WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2021 #9
 

Hugh_Lebowski

(33,643 posts)
1. If we could all just agree 20 weeks is fair outside certain conditions like danger to mother
Tue Nov 9, 2021, 12:25 PM
Nov 2021

or serious/dangerous fetal abnormality, and then THAT WAS IT?

We're DONE arguing over this as a society? It's settled? And then the steps are taken to make it easy to have done, basically everywhere?

I'd take that pretty happily.

Then again, I'm a dude, so ...

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,357 posts)
2. Unfortunately, with abortion, a compromise mindset will always get you less than you hope for.
Tue Nov 9, 2021, 12:37 PM
Nov 2021

20 weeks is just as arbitrary as 15.

 

Hugh_Lebowski

(33,643 posts)
3. I hear ya ... personally I think the least arbitrary date would be what is the earliest a baby has
Tue Nov 9, 2021, 12:43 PM
Nov 2021

been born, in the world, and lived to see, say, it's 1st birthday.

However, if it really would end the debate once and for all, and drastically improve access nation-wide, I could live with 20 weeks.

15 ... not nearly as easily.

 

Hugh_Lebowski

(33,643 posts)
5. Yeah, well, I think children are overrated, so ... fine by me :)
Tue Nov 9, 2021, 01:13 PM
Nov 2021

But there's zero chance of the sort of consensus I'm referring to happening with absolutely no restrictions on 'when/why'.

Not that it would happen ANYway, but ...

Polybius

(15,437 posts)
7. What percentage of Americans support no restrictions at all?
Tue Nov 9, 2021, 03:12 PM
Nov 2021

I just don't think that would fly in a general election, even if I agreed.

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