General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRittenhouse is a bad liar.
He has a tell. He scrunches up his face and his voice gets squeaky. You see and hear this every time he claims he can't remember something.
The photographic evidence undermines his bullshit story of self-defense.
Walleye
(31,068 posts)AZSkiffyGeek
(11,093 posts)Kid's a fucking coward.
H2O Man
(73,630 posts)I was thinking the same thing watching him. I hope that the jurors thought the same.
He is a good example of a deeply disturbed individuak, with an external locus of control. He believed a gun, first aid kits, etc would provide him with power. A case of Dumbo's feather.
WestIndianArchie
(386 posts)Killer.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)No way would he have gone into the protest zone clutching his little medic bag without his big gun.
He felt like a MAN. Had someone taken that from him, hed have run like a scared squirrel.
H2O Man
(73,630 posts)He is not a good liar, which is interesting as he has been living a lie.
OLDMDDEM
(1,577 posts)I told my wife he was lying thru his teeth.
calguy
(5,335 posts)Although I didn't see that much of it.
Here's hoping the jury sees it the same way.
BlueTsunami2018
(3,505 posts)Ill be shocked if he doesnt walk Scott free. Everything appears stacked in his favor.
malaise
(269,211 posts)Last edited Wed Nov 10, 2021, 08:26 PM - Edit history (1)
during his confirmation hearing and that says something
Celerity
(43,582 posts)malaise
(269,211 posts)I'll never forget that day (even if I forgot her name for a moment)
madaboutharry
(40,231 posts)Maybe I am misremembering, but I think thats what happened.
Celerity
(43,582 posts)During Graham's speech, Alito's wife, Martha-Ann Bomgardner left her husband's confirmation hearings in tears, returning not long after.
https://crooksandliars.com/2006/01/12/martha-ann-bomgardner-leaves-in-tears
Anyone notice that Lindsey Graham seems to always be involved in something?
Wolcott: "If Alito is confirmed, Mrs. Alito and Judge Clarence Thomas's wife can commiserate by exchanging monogrammed crying towels as their men folk roll back women's rights and civil liberties and go duck hunting weekends with Scalia."
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)Fact is. few of us are body language experts.
He probably guilty. But I don't put much faith in armchair body language experts.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)There is absolutely no doubt he killed those men and wounded the other.
Thats been proven.
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)I haven't followed the case at all.
As I understand it, both parties were armed, but I really don't know any further details other than I'm supposed to root for the other guy.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)The one guy who lived was armed as well. Also claiming to be a medic.
The other two were unarmed. This stupid punk would never have ventured into that area without his big, bad gun. I think hell probably get off, but Ive no doubt his comeuppance will arrive eventually.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,047 posts)23 posted on 2021-11-10, by chuckee ( from front pages)
That's what I was thinking. He has such a good heart. Nothing,
absolutely nothing so far has set off an alarm in me to think that he's Bs'ing.
I'm praying for him. He needs our prayers for strength.
55 posted on 2021-11-10, by 1_Rain_Drop ("There will be
a smooth transition to a second Trump administration - Pompeo)
judge and jury just lets him walk out the back door.
One of the most compelling and convincing live witnessed Ive seen.
63 posted on 2021-11-10, by AAABEST (NY/DC/LA
media/political/military industrial complex DELENDA EST)
Disaffected
(4,569 posts)Trying to divine whether someone is lying by observation of body language is dodgy at best and not nearly reliable enough for determination of guilt or innocence (or, for that matter, selecting a jury).
For instance, consider the pressure a defendant charged with a very serious crime is under when being cross examined. Even though he/she may be telling the complete truth in response to a potentially damning question, the knowledge that so much depends on whether he/she is believed by the jury can make someone so nervous that they may stumble, misspeak or squirm in attempting to articulate an answer i.e. the same characteristics that may lead some to believe or at least suspect the defendant is lying or being evasive. This is one of the factors BTW that make polygraphs unreliable - the defendant, for similar reasons, may perspire and breath harder (thus causing blips on the polygraph) in answering a question even though he is telling the truth.
littlemissmartypants
(22,839 posts)It was one of the many jobs I had which helped me to work my way through multiple advanced degrees.
Here's my take:
https://democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16038044
hlthe2b
(102,411 posts)cues. For some it is instinctive. For others, they need to learn the cues.
This guy is lying through and through IMHO and assessment (with some prior training). I hope to see an official analysis by Body Language expert, Dr. Jack Brown--who has been known to weigh in on public figures' "performances" like this.
Disaffected
(4,569 posts)Why does that sound like hair & fibre or blood splatter evidence or, polygraph evidence?
hlthe2b
(102,411 posts)aspect of human interpretation. That said, it IS used all the time in voir dire by each side to choose those potential jurors to challenge. And in that context, it has been very well validated as a predictive tool. And whether you admit it or not, YOU use it, as least subconsciously, to react to others and to determine what is credible that you are being told and what is not. So, too will the jurors.
And yes, there are microaggressions, microexpressions that have been validated scientifically in terms of body language. You may think the entire fields of behavioral science and psychology are bogus, but sad for you if you do.
My field is medicine, but I have an interest and appreciation for other fields of science. If you are anti-science then you should bypass any posts I make. If you are bothered by my comment because I don't believe a word out of Kyle's mouth, well then, I suspect he's going to get off scott-free. So, not to worry. Just like George Zimmerman. So, if you want to buy his "performance" as real and feel sorry for him, so be it. I most certainly do not.
Disaffected
(4,569 posts)You seem to have me figured out, probably in the same manner you seem to believe I'm likely "anti-science" and feel sorry for the perp.
Whether or not it is used in court as "evidence", I still contend such subjective beliefs fall into the same rubric as the aforementioned hair & fibre analysis etc.
Other than that I'll have nothing more to say on the matter (other than to add, if I'm ever brought to trial for a serious crime I hope some of the posters to this thread and others are not on the jury).
hlthe2b
(102,411 posts)I get it. You don't understand what I am talking about, but instead of asking you become condescending. That tells me something but I will simply move on. Bye.
Tanuki
(14,923 posts)phony and contrived. Later, when I saw a video clip, it was even more evident. It was completely ludicrous, and I am also confident in my assessment.
WHITT
(2,868 posts)and a Really bad crier.
George II
(67,782 posts)...a hung jury.
That might be good, a retrial would not have this shitty judge.
dem4decades
(11,306 posts)And I don't have much hope for the jury either.
tiredtoo
(2,949 posts)to see if they were buying his fake cry.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)bullwinkle428
(20,631 posts)end up doing the same.
jimmil
(629 posts)his constant, "I felt it was a threat and my life was in danger," sounds like the same old gun toting trope used by the NRA when laws are passed allowing people to be armed on the streets. The kid went there with gun in hand to show those leftist what justice is and to prove what a man he is.
localroger
(3,634 posts)This kid is a fucking moron. It probably isn't helping that people he admires have been buying him drinks and propping him up as a hero in the time between his crime and the trial. He simply can't emote believably. He's a smug little punk who came to town to hunt black and liberal humans, and made a score and he's still fucking proud of himself for making a score. And he is confident his buds will get him out of this crime bidness because he's all white and heroic and male and shit.
KT2000
(20,590 posts)the judge will void the jury's decision and let him off as in not guilty.
madaboutharry
(40,231 posts)KT2000
(20,590 posts)judgment notwithstanding the verdict (JNOV) (from Cornell Law)
Primary tabs
A judgment by the trial judge after a jury has issued a verdict, setting aside the jury's verdict and entering a judgment in favor of the losing party without a new trial. A JNOV is very similar to a directed verdict except for the timing within a trial. A judge will issue a JNOV if he or she determines that no reasonable jury could have reached the jurys verdict based on the evidence presented at trial, or if the jury incorrectly applied the law in reaching its verdict. A trial judge may grant a JNOV in response to a motion for a judgment notwithstanding the verdict by the losing party, or in some jurisdictions like California, sua sponte. In a civil case, the judge can grant a JNOV in favor of both plaintiffs and defendants. Some jurisdictions require that a party preserve the right to move for a JNOV by moving for a directed verdict earlier in the trial. A motion for a judgment notwithstanding the verdict is often filed together with a motion for a new trial by the losing party in response to the jurys verdict. A judges decision to grant or deny a motion for JNOV is often reviewable on appeal. The Federal Rules of Civil Procedure have replaced JNOV with Judgement as a Matter of Law (JMOL).
localroger
(3,634 posts)If he's convicted his side can appeal, but the judge can't vacate the jury's decision.
KT2000
(20,590 posts)judgment notwithstanding the verdict (JNOV) (from Cornell Law)
A judgment by the trial judge after a jury has issued a verdict, setting aside the jury's verdict and entering a judgment in favor of the losing party without a new trial. A JNOV is very similar to a directed verdict except for the timing within a trial. A judge will issue a JNOV if he or she determines that no reasonable jury could have reached the jurys verdict based on the evidence presented at trial, or if the jury incorrectly applied the law in reaching its verdict. A trial judge may grant a JNOV in response to a motion for a judgment notwithstanding the verdict by the losing party, or in some jurisdictions like California, sua sponte. In a civil case, the judge can grant a JNOV in favor of both plaintiffs and defendants. Some jurisdictions require that a party preserve the right to move for a JNOV by moving for a directed verdict earlier in the trial. A motion for a judgment notwithstanding the verdict is often filed together with a motion for a new trial by the losing party in response to the jurys verdict. A judges decision to grant or deny a motion for JNOV is often reviewable on appeal. The Federal Rules of Civil Procedure have replaced JNOV with Judgement as a Matter of Law (JMOL).
tclambert
(11,087 posts)It didn't just magically appear when he supposedly felt threatened. That suggests premeditation. If he felt so scared at home that the crowd at the protest might turn on him he could have stayed home. Instead he went down there planning to shoot people.
MustLoveBeagles
(11,645 posts)He didn't bring the gun in from Illinois. The gun likely originated as a straw purchase by a friend of his that is a Wisconsin resident. I agree with the rest of your post. He went there looking form trouble.
IcyPeas
(21,910 posts)Link to tweet
?t=PXPLfH6ZIkkAAtCYXf7R3g&s=19
localroger
(3,634 posts)Dreampuff
(778 posts)Several people commenting on court TV apparently see things differently. I see him as a cold-blooded killer, a pathological liar, a bad actor, but he did learn all his lines well and keeps repeating them. His crying scene was pathetic, but the judge seems to have bought it.
Very narcissistic. He couldn't seem to grasp the question from the prosecuting attorney when he asked how the other person would feel with his gun pointing at them. He just kept saying that he was being threatened and didn't seem to understand others could feel threatened by him even after he had shot the first person. Keeping my hopes up the jury will see through him.
He's also done questionable things since the killings like going to a bar and drinking, legally because his mother was in there, wearing a nasty t-shirt, and having selfies taken with white supremacists. I looked up the political makeup of the area and it seems pretty evenly split so maybe there is hope.
Response to madaboutharry (Original post)
Dreampuff This message was self-deleted by its author.