General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow stupid is Trump - Interesting article
Last edited Thu Nov 11, 2021, 01:15 PM - Edit history (1)
Trump's stupidity, his inability to accept his own loss in the election, his withdrawal into a fantasy reality in which he could reverse the results, and his willingness to listen to other morons who encouraged that idiocy all of these things are deeply intertwined. It's true a less foolhardy Republican president would be more competent at governing. But this president would also be far more capable of accepting a political loss, not to mention other inconvenient aspects of reality. When it comes to evaluating fitness for high political office, such a capacity should be considered an absolute bare minimum.
We have trouble acknowledging this because it's challenging to grasp the depth and precise character of Trump's imbecility. It's not that he lacks an education, or that he doesn't have certain talents in abundance above all, the ability to tap into and exploit the prejudices and fears of a culturally alienated and resentful segment of the electorate. Trump's stupidity has different sources. It arises from emotional defects. He is so incapable of accepting failure that he warps reality around himself, constructing alternatives to the way the world is and then plunging into them, no matter how fantastically daft they happen to be. That makes Trump's idiocy next of kin to outright delusion.
https://theweek.com/politics/1006906/trump-the-idiot
Walleye
(31,028 posts)Justice matters.
(6,933 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)tRump would be indistinguishable among a hundred million Americans.
Oh. Well... Let's not dive down that one even if it currently seems like it.
It does occur to me that he's never had to stand in lines like most people. Those could be considered struggles he's missed.
Notably, though, researchers have not identifiedhaving to go to work, juggling bills, and standing in lines as underlying causes of personality disorders. Now, childhood traumas, abuse including sexual and verbal among others, genetics, yes.
Walleye
(31,028 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)It's not that normal life doesn't help people develop. But privileged lives produce their own expanding experiences, and those tend to produce some useful anxiety and stress also.
Intellectually, though, tRump's privileged world has always been far larger than most people's, with many more interesting, mind-expanding experiences, including everyday exposures to the kind of intelligent, high functioning people who find their way to those levels of society. Kids who grow up with real estate magnate fathers and to top schools that demand performance usually have a big advantage in intellectual (or at least fund of knowledge) development over kids whose fathers drive forklifts or process healthcare claims. But not Donnie.
And the same for adulthood. Millions/billions of people do the same relatively simple jobs each day for years, go home to the same home, same weekend activities, same shows on the TV, same local circle of friends. It's wonderful that we can be very happy with those lives, but privileged lives normally come with greater intellectual stimulation, much greater variety of experiences, higher levels of expected performance, and more new challenges. Also greater happiness-producing feelings of security. Most privileged people do fine in spite of their deficit of inadequate-income struggle. Not tRump.
Let's face it, privileged lives just don't correlate with greater numbers of socio/psychopaths. tRump's family is not typical.
Bottom line, I just can't imagine that tRump'd be a normal, unstupid person if Fred tRump did drive a forklift and Donnie had to work (struggle) to save enough money to train for a welder's certificate before settling happily into the normal struggles of family life. Or that he'd consider doing that for a moment when he could prey on people instead, a skill he started developing as a child.
Walleye
(31,028 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)typical of psychopaths, for just one part of a normal person.
If adults accepted that common personality disorders were very real, more people might have wondered if they were seeing pathological levels of vindictiveness and cruelty combining with megalomania, rage -- and the power of the presidency.
People who see him as essentially normal but badly behaving of course wouldn't wonder if he's been exacting vicious revenge on an entire nation for disrespecting him, perhaps especially "his people" who've been failing him constantly. tRump has always been obsessed with revenge and raled about the need to retaliate many times harder. His public statements have frequently revealed an eagerness for violence completely lacking the constraints of humanity.
So might "stupidity" in handling the pandemic, and mishandling of many smaller problems, be something dreadfully more if what we were seeing was a vicious psychopath "getting even 15 times harder"?
Speaking of his people, how about unhinged vengefulness of a leader bent on both destruction and power reflected in 50 million obedient followers currently turned against everyone else?
Walleye
(31,028 posts)The problem is theyre getting back at us for things that have only happened in their imagination
underpants
(182,826 posts)Donald Trump is many things, but he is first and foremost a moron.
Great opening line
brer cat
(24,576 posts)thenelm1
(854 posts)I mean Reagan and Shrub? Both mental midgets. And each one in turn is dumber than the last.
Patterson
(1,530 posts)wnylib
(21,485 posts)pull the strings in the Republican Party.
jaxexpat
(6,833 posts)A downward sloped straight line is the connection of the vertically charted IQ of Republican presidential candidates along their timeline. It's useful for pre-explanation of how the GOP will run a planarian as their 2040 candidate. This, after running a congressman from Texas, an actual elephant and a rather intelligent praying mantis (Not necessarily in that order and the congressman still contends the planarian cheated on his shape placement exam).
I'm a Gemini
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,123 posts)Think back to Jamuary 20, 2017. He sent little Sean Spicer out to lie about the crowd size of the inaugural, as he lied about all crowd sizes. Then he proceeded to thrive on regular rallies no other president would dare have while in office. Why? Because he isn't a politician and his idiot followers have no clue about proper protocol or what true patriotism is. Or that Hitler was likely his inspiration.
Given the state of the formerly Grand Old Party, who are the morons?
Demovictory9
(32,457 posts)mahina
(17,665 posts)Right up there with it was the best of times it was the worst of times.
sanatanadharma
(3,707 posts)An entire political team in America is deplorably delusional.
They warp reality around themselves, constructing alternate worlds of desire, belief and illusion, then claiming to be the only ones who know truth, they plunge into self-deceptions no matter how fantastically daft they happen to be.
Some are deluded, most are delusional, claiming truth to be non-existent and the imaginary to be reality.
certainot
(9,090 posts)the sex on the wrong brain theory suggests most humans have some of that but some humans have inherited a greater susceptibility to it because it benefited their ancestors more in terms of competition and survival in crowded environments, as opposed to more natural less crowded environments (ie. old world Columbus vs new world natives).
two of the symptoms are the Certainty Deficit Disorder (CDD) and greed. authoritarians have an irrational fear uncertainty so bad that they crave ideologies and leaders to create certainty. since nothing is certain they are driven by fear of nature's unpredictability, 'chaos', disorder, etc., to learn to deny reality.
the reaction to climate change is an example. it's easier for those with bad sowb to deny global warming outright than to accept and contemplate the uncertainties, complications, changes, challenges, and opportunities it represents.
it was a design flaw - humans have a brain with two hemispheres that interact and have some functional specialization, and two hands, but only one sexual organ. we just need some sex ed
Buns_of_Fire
(17,181 posts)If daddy hadn't left him $400 million, he wouldn't qualify as a third-shift manager at the local hamburder joint.
Ronald McDonald may be a clown, but he's got standards.
mopinko
(70,121 posts)malaise
(269,050 posts)He's a fucking lunatic
malaise
(269,050 posts)Jon King
(1,910 posts)And never pays any price for a lifetime of ripping people off. America, go figure.
Submariner
(12,504 posts)what I do when I hear he is out golfing, is cherish the thought that maybe, just maybe, a jet on runway approach over one of his golf courses will drop one of those giant blue chemical toilet icebergs and crush his flabby ass dead on the back nine.
packman
(16,296 posts)ShazzieB
(16,420 posts)3catwoman3
(24,006 posts)...a fitting end.
Dark n Stormy Knight
(9,760 posts)on the golf course would be poetic justice. And with no one to blame but TFG himself & God.
With your scenario, the pilot, the airline--and, somehow Hillary and/or Obama--would be blamed.
However, it is otherwise an even more fitting demise for that pos. I vote yes!
Buns_of_Fire
(17,181 posts)By Executive Order, Governor Ron DeShithead would proclaim that Trump International Country Club in Lantana would henceforth be known as the Trump Memorial International Alligator Preserve.
alfredo
(60,074 posts)The fads take forever to act. If a Republican wins in 2024, he will be pardoned of all federal convictions.
msfiddlestix
(7,282 posts)I wonder what the pay is for publishing an Op-Ed with content that's been written a million times before by just about as many writers?
hmm...
packman
(16,296 posts)msfiddlestix
(7,282 posts)apparently it's a lucrative business.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Is something we just experienced. We kicked him out, not liking it. So why we would return him again to the WH being a worry is mysterious.
bucolic_frolic
(43,177 posts)"that history book on the shelf, it keeps repeating itself!" - ABBA
500 years after the Enlightenment we are still grappling with how to reign in hierarchies and executive power in all its manifestations. We're like giant ant or bee colonies. There's always a pyramidal social and ruling structure. The subconscious and the collective unconscious intertwined and predestined.
paleotn
(17,931 posts)beer hall putsch taking over the government of Bavaria. The idea, however, isn't delusional or stupid, just poorly executed this time. With the right planning and support, it very well could have succeeded. And 1/3 to 40% of the populace would support it wholeheartedly.
Ray Bruns
(4,098 posts)"It arises from emotional defects. He is so incapable of accepting failure that he warps reality around himself, constructing alternatives to the way the world is and then plunging into them, no matter how fantastically daft they happen to be."
That is not stupidity. It is narcissistic personality disorder.
sarge43
(28,941 posts)JohnnyRingo
(18,636 posts)It's too easy to brand Trump at once as an evil genius and a simple minded jack ass. Pick one.
I believe the traits people mistake as idiocy stem from an illness that disallows him from seeing reality.
As evidence I recall just 5 years ago when he was campaigning. He was able to construct meaningful sentences and thoughts. His personality won over millions who saw themselves in him. It was when things started going to hell that he seemed to lose touch and state absurdities that could be mistaken for stupidity.
No, DJT is smart and crafty at the things he does, it's just that governing isn't one of those things.
ShazzieB
(16,420 posts)I agree that his mental illness (malignant narcissism) prevents him from using whatever intellect he has in an effective way. I also believe that his intellect is average at most, and probably on the low side of that (based on what we know of his educational history). It's a deadly combination for the office he held (and wants to hold again), in which high level decision-making skills are of critical importance.
Midnight Writer
(21,768 posts)Johonny
(20,851 posts)However, he's very much a one act pony. His bit wore thin on me early in 2016. The one bit is all he's got and it's not even very convincing. Is he stupid, he's as dumb as a rock. I mean, he knows next to nothing about any subject not related to himself.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)....in the way the article says. Trump knows he lost. In the same way the Tobacco Companies knew smoking caused cancer. Same way the Coal Companies knew they were causing climate change. The big lie serves him. He can keep the division stoked, destroy Democracy (the destruction of which serves any King) and he can be an aggrieved White Victim, which keeps the headlines enflamed.
He has no idea how to govern or actually do anything. But he's a Media-Savant. A TV performer first and foremost. Smart enough to be acting out a script that has the majority of us in terror of him.
FakeNoose
(32,645 posts)Does that make him a moron? Maybe ...
He's also a malignant narcissistic sociopath, so he believes his own lies and he doesn't care who gets hurt in the process. Chump is a warped, defective human being. Most people on the planet can't related to how twisted and malformed his soul is, so we assume that he's stupid because he can't see it himself. We assume that he would "fix himself " or seek psychiatric help if he could understand how messed up he is. But that would be the path of a rational person, and that's not what we're dealing with here.
After the last 5 years of Chump, I now understand that he's a real-life version of Hannibal Lector, without the messy cannibalism. His self-delusion, manipulation and evil greed are a perfect storm of bad qualities that we never want to see in someone who leads this country. Like Hannibal Lector, there is cunning and intelligence co-habiting with the evil. I no longer believe Chump is stupid. He's something to be feared and loathed, not pitied.
Paladin
(28,264 posts)For allowing this hateful madman to attain so much power and do so much damage. I have cans of tuna in my pantry with more intellect and common decency.
Escurumbele
(3,395 posts)He is a mafioso, his hang of corrupt republicans feel he tapped on a formula to gain popularity and votes, I think that at the end of the day they will be proven wrong, 30% is not enough to win.
Martin Eden
(12,870 posts)TFG is woefully ignorant, but he is not unintelligent.
Among his mental defects is the confidence he already knows better than the so-called experts. This means he has no inclination to study and learn complex subjects or objective facts.
The plain "truth" of the matter is that TRUTH matters not a whit to this malignant narcissist. His public pronouncements reflect whatever serves his immediate needs, even when this means fabricating lies out of whole cloth.
Shockingly, (regarding the susceptibility of American voters to such rhetoric) his pervasive mendacity along with his malicious bigotry have served his political career very well -- propelling him to the White House in 2016 and sustaining his grip on the Republican Party, which is conforming to the character of this would be tyrant.
Donald Trump is egregiously unfit, both mentally and morally, for any public office -- bit he and the Party he leads remain a looming threat to seize the power of our federal government and to expand their existing control over state governments and elections across the country.
TeamProg
(6,139 posts)Escurumbele
(3,395 posts)I don't agree that a smarter republican should be nominated by their party. trump's only accomplishment, which is not good for the country, was to make public the weaknesses of the USA constitution, he has taught corrupt republicans how to ignore the rule of law, and the fact that "no one is above the law" is a myth because anyone with power IS above the law. Anyone smarter than trump, which is not very difficult to find, corrupt like trump will take advantage of everything bad he/she learned during the past four years while trump was vacationing at the White House and spewing hate, so if republicans take power expect the USA to become a totalitarian regime, things will get very ugly, and those who think they prefer a right-wing regime will be sorry they ever said that.
The majority of the country has caught up to the fact that trump is an idiot, that is why he lost in 2020, his only supporters represent 30% of the country, hillbillies and ignorant voters, so in that respect, if trump is not in jail by then for his crimes before-during-after his stunt at the presidency, I hope he gets the nomination because he will loose again.
jmbar2
(4,890 posts)It would take some intelligence to think up all the scams he's been involved in, even if they mostly failed.
If you look at all the businesses, plus all the nefarious plots and lawsuits, the complexity of his world is unimaginable for most people. I know his sons aren't that complex. Who thought all this up and made it happen?
(From 2016)
Kaleva
(36,309 posts)If one watches old interviews of Trump, he comes across as articulate and educated.
Politicub
(12,165 posts)I don't see the point in endless articles that talk about how dumb he is or how he is mentally ill. Is this news to anyone who gives a damn?
The truth is, Trump has a feral intelligence for drawing attention to himself and grifting people. We lose sight of this at our peril.
He used these talents to win the presidency, and he's still damaging our democracy.
That's the reality in which we find ourselves. Articles that point out how awful and twisted Trump is accomplish nothing in the long run. At least they don't seem to be accomplishing much of anything. The thing that has worked against Trump most effectively is his boorish behavior, which ended up getting him banned from social platforms.
OverBurn
(950 posts)we're supposed to be having over him. The "stupid" idiot may be President again. We still haven't seen his taxes. All the lawsuits don't seem close to putting his lying, cheating, "stupid" ass in jail.
I just hope I live long even to see him penniless, in jail and then dead. I think less and less it'll ever happen.
twodogsbarking
(9,759 posts)He is a man with no limits. Incapable of human qualities.
He knows everything. A stable genius. Trump.
Grins
(7,218 posts)That implies an excuse.
Hes not stupid; he is deliberately and colossally cruel, vindictive, spiteful, avaricious, and more, all in service to himself.
iemanja
(53,035 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)to be in prison soon. And forever.
An even better scenario: he leaves this dimension altogether.
azureblue
(2,146 posts)Trump is an entitled frat brat, born on third and thinks he hit a triple. Thinks like a sixth grader. He thinks he is smart because he has money, but all he is a person who gets his way through bullying and bullshitting.
zaj
(3,433 posts)... Trump and the GOP are just living in it.
Just like GWB, Trump is an empty vessel that can be steered to their very smart, abusive and tyrannical ends.
FakeNoose
(32,645 posts)... so he's really doing their evil dirty work for them. I sure hope we find out that Bannon takes money from Putin too, because that would something he'd (probably) go to prison for.
dobleremolque
(492 posts)OMGWTF
(3,959 posts)Quote by William T Kelly, former professor at University of Pennsylvania, Wharton.
Kingofalldems
(38,458 posts)Don't underestimate him. And his followers for the most part are idiots for sure.
gulliver
(13,186 posts)Hell, Trump's kinda stupid, true. But so what? He's a whole lot worse than stupid. He's rotten.
Upthevibe
(8,052 posts)NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)The media obviously was mesmerized by Trump in 2016 and gave him 24/7 coverage for over a year. When Hillary made news, it was only for something negative. Trump managed to keep it close enough in September & October of 2016 to steal it away at the last minute.
Then, in 2020, despite a mediocre economy his 1st 3 years and colossal screw ups with covid response in his last year, he barely lost to Biden. Yes, he lost by 7 million votes, but several Biden won states were extremely close.
Skittles
(153,169 posts)they'll keep doing it, too
Tommymac
(7,263 posts)And he is supported by the establishment 1% Dean, just like in the movie.
He is the evil epitome of the 'Me Generation'.
He is the result of the Movement Conservative initiative.
He was their plan all along - or someone just like him.
Than You Raygun. Thank You Rush. Thank You Bush family. Thank You Ayn Rand. Thank You Koch family. Thank You William Buckley. Thank You George Will. Thank You Newt. Than You Cheney. Thank You Rummy. Thank You Nixon. Thank You Jessie Helms. Thank You both-side apologists. Thank You Corporate Media. Thank You Fox News. Thank You Klan. Thank You everyone on the Right who has enabled the Destruction of the US Constitution.
Thank You 1%. Thank You all.
iemanja
(53,035 posts)when it comes to taping into and exploiting the worst traits among Americans. That's how he came to power.
We could face him again in 2024. I don't think calling him an imbecile helps prepare us.
Mr.Bill
(24,301 posts)Last edited Thu Nov 11, 2021, 08:05 PM - Edit history (1)
and has known and been around him her entire life. Her professional opinion of him is that his emotional development was arrested at age two and a half. I agree and would also add that he is profoundly stupid. He surrounds himself with evil people who have learned to manipulate him. It's no accident his CFO was indicted before he will be. His only value to the republicans is that he will sign anything they put in front of him without even being able to read it well enough to comprehend it.
In 2016, he discovered the largest criminal gang in the world who now owns him. We know them as the republican congress.
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)ymetca
(1,182 posts)I read that somewhere. Fits for him and many others who always want to be in charge.
I have a brother-in-law who has something similar - was diagnosed once with some kind of "defiance disorder", which means he absolutely believes he's always the smartest person in the room. And when he dimly recognizes he might be in company with folks much smarter than him, he sweats profusely, gets angry, and has to leave. Then he fumes in his mind for the rest of his days and cannot come to any other conclusion than all those people deserve revenge.
Not sure how it happens, but it starts really, really young.
Skittles
(153,169 posts)what is truly alarming is how many people BELIEVE in this seriously mentally ill man
XRubicon
(2,212 posts)Rhiannon12866
(205,467 posts)While in traffic today I was behind a vehicle at a light which sported a "Trump 2021" sticker...
Blue Owl
(50,414 posts)Topics that his pea brain thinks will make him appear smart, and he believes nobody notices how stupid he actually sounds
Aussie105
(5,401 posts)as the first person whose brain died 50 years before his body.
During those final years, he is unpredictable, destructive and delusional. America, defend yourself!
Demovictory9
(32,457 posts)SouthernDem4ever
(6,617 posts)Trump has always been an idiotic con-man.
bullwinkle428
(20,629 posts)because of "stolen election"/MAGA/gas prices/"freedom"/yadda-yadda-yadda...
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Psychology classes show videos of disordered people for students to observe. We've had a national 6-year-old video playing out as we watch, and most of the nation would fail even the simplest quiz on what we've seen.
The widespread rejection and denial of even the existence personality disorder is extremely striking.
The electorate as a whole has not just failed but refused to learn a critical lesson. Why?
This article managed to completely avoid any discussion of what are clearly multiple mental dysfunctions, manifesting as effective "stupidity." Why is tRump almost completely disinterested anything he doesn't see as about him? We can see how it makes him "stupid," all right, but why is were 100,000 deaths of no concern (or possibly even satisfying?) until a projected 200,000 threatened his reeelection? Why does he routinely sabotage his own interests to take pleasure in cruelty to others? Mental health professionals know.
And if we understood that disordered anger and malice are driving this fraction of a human being, maybe we'd be able to start understanding how this effectively both stunningly stupid and brilliantly effective man is able to cause 100 million Americans to reflect his disoder. Maybe more people would be afraid as we shouold be.