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Trump is running a shadow.govt..statement just released about "my envoy ambassador" (Original Post) Demovictory9 Nov 2021 OP
Uh...WTF? 634-5789 Nov 2021 #1
His delusions continue vlyons Nov 2021 #2
Question is....will anyone do anything about it? paleotn Nov 2021 #3
no way he wrote that. who did? IcyPeas Nov 2021 #4
Logan Act JustAnotherGen Nov 2021 #5
It is kind of irrelevant SCantiGOP Nov 2021 #22
And Candidate Reagan conspired with Iran to undermine President Carter. Marcuse Nov 2021 #26
Not to mention recently when the Trump campaign conspired with the Russian government cstanleytech Nov 2021 #34
It was known. cloudbase Nov 2021 #31
I think you're right SCantiGOP Nov 2021 #37
That's exactly what I thought, that Nixon was secretly negotiating with the Vietnamese Rhiannon12866 Nov 2021 #39
I used your info in JustAnotherGen Nov 2021 #42
He could very well be in violation... SergeStorms Nov 2021 #23
It's not TFG JustAnotherGen Nov 2021 #41
This message was self-deleted by its author cstanleytech Nov 2021 #33
This is really pushing the boundaries of what's legal. He is so far out of bounds that it's crazy. CaliforniaPeggy Nov 2021 #6
THIS malaise Nov 2021 #9
Thank you, my dear malaise. ♥ CaliforniaPeggy Nov 2021 #11
I ask the same thing each and every day... Rhiannon12866 Nov 2021 #40
Trump's Deep State blm Nov 2021 #7
also see comments here Grasswire2 Nov 2021 #8
Thx Demovictory9 Nov 2021 #15
What TFG has is a BlueIdaho Nov 2021 #10
As a fundraiser, no doubt. wnylib Nov 2021 #25
You nailed it! BlueIdaho Nov 2021 #36
His qualifications are that he drives a GMC? keithbvadu2 Nov 2021 #12
He can send all the idiots he wants to Polly Hennessey Nov 2021 #13
He also has FelineOverlord Nov 2021 #14
Yep. others have been tweeting out his message..an admission parlor and other sites Demovictory9 Nov 2021 #21
From where, His Eminence's Royal Mar-A-Lago Compound? bucolic_frolic Nov 2021 #16
Like Napoleon, he should go rule his Elba IronLionZion Nov 2021 #17
he lies about everything. spanone Nov 2021 #18
Then maybe his shadow AG should do something about his insane delusion Harker Nov 2021 #19
I think this would qualify as evidence... SergeStorms Nov 2021 #20
It's a good thing he's so clueless and out of touch. Kaleva Nov 2021 #24
In what U.S.A. is it legal for an ex-President to impersonate a current president? CCExile Nov 2021 #27
Exactly! Duppers Nov 2021 #38
what he did serves two purposes onethatcares Nov 2021 #28
The emperor not only doesn't have any clothes,... LudwigPastorius Nov 2021 #29
He is only relevant as long as his BS is repeated, ignore the flushed turd here & everywhere else. n yaesu Nov 2021 #30
Cue Republican condemnation in 1, 2, 97, 4511, 76899999 .... . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2021 #32
He has never given up the Presidency HighFired49 Nov 2021 #35

JustAnotherGen

(31,828 posts)
5. Logan Act
Thu Nov 11, 2021, 04:15 PM
Nov 2021

I think he's in violation of it . . .

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/LSB/LSB10058


The Logan Act, which has been the subject of much recent debate, generally makes it illegal for U.S.
citizens to engage in unauthorized diplomacy with foreign countries with intent to “influence the
measures or conduct” of a foreign government or to “defeat the measures of the United States . . . .”
Prosecutors have only brought two Logan Act indictments since its enactment, neither of which led to
conviction. As stated by one commentator, the Act has been called a “dead letter,” an “anachronism,” a
“curious federalist antique,” “the most moribund of federal statutes,” and an “eighteenth century relic that
slumbers in splendid disregard.” Others have noted that the statute is not completely moribund—the State
Department has occasionally enforced the Logan Act’s prohibitions by way of passport suspensions and
travel restrictions, and there has been a successful court martial of a U.S. serviceman for conduct of the
kind barred by the statute. But regardless of the debate over the Logan Act’s precise history, its sparse use
in its intended criminal context is undisputed, which raises significant legal questions for Congress.



History - sounds like what Grenell did - only he's not even an elected official -


Background:
The Logan Act has its origins in a late-18th century foreign policy conflict with France
during the Federalist-dominated John Adams Administration. George Logan, a member of the opposition
Republican Party, traveled to France to meet with French ministers and to attempt to reduce the tensions
between the two countries. This trip met with a backlash back home, particularly among the Federalists
who controlled the government. Upon Dr. Logan’s return, Congress passed what would come to be
known as the Logan Act in an effort to criminalize any future “private diplomacy.”

Since the Logan Act’s enactment in 1799, there apparently have been only two prosecutions under the
statute, neither of which led to a conviction. In 1803, a grand jury indicted a Kentucky farmer named
Francis Flournoy for writing an article in the Frankfort Guardian of Freedom arguing for a separate
Western United States allied to France. The case went no further than the indictment. Then, in 1853, one
Jonas P. Levy was “arrested and held to bail” under the Logan Act for having written a letter to the
President of Mexico. This case, as well, was ultimately dropped. It appears that no indictment under the
Logan Act has been brought in the 165 years since

SCantiGOP

(13,871 posts)
22. It is kind of irrelevant
Thu Nov 11, 2021, 06:13 PM
Nov 2021

I think the only time it would be used is if someone in government, maybe in the minority party, were to sit down with another country and try to negotiate a deal contrary to what the actual government was trying to accomplish. We now know that Nixon told the Vietnamese that they would get a better deal if they waited for his Administration to get elected instead of taking a deal with the Johnson Administration. Had that been known at the time and proven it would have been an obvious violation.

And I remember when Jesse Jackson went to Syria to free an American airman who had been shot down over Lebanon. The Reagan Administration did not agree to his action, and a lot of right wingers wanted Jackson arrested. After his effort was successful and he returned with the American prisoner, no one mentioned pursuing the matter further.

cstanleytech

(26,293 posts)
34. Not to mention recently when the Trump campaign conspired with the Russian government
Thu Nov 11, 2021, 07:13 PM
Nov 2021

and then oddly enough after Trump won the sanctions against Russia enacted by the US were oddly blunted.

cloudbase

(5,520 posts)
31. It was known.
Thu Nov 11, 2021, 06:50 PM
Nov 2021

Johnson and the powers that be didn't publicize it because doing so would have let the world know that we had Thieu's entire world bugged so thoroughly that he couldn't fart without us knowing.

SCantiGOP

(13,871 posts)
37. I think you're right
Thu Nov 11, 2021, 09:12 PM
Nov 2021

I remember that now.
I think the Logan Act was needed at a time when a good portion of the people in the newly constituted country wanted to reunite with England, but not sure it is practical to enforce it today. Besides, we have about 25 more serious and direct crimes that should be used to convict the Orange Usurper.

Rhiannon12866

(205,467 posts)
39. That's exactly what I thought, that Nixon was secretly negotiating with the Vietnamese
Fri Nov 12, 2021, 01:24 AM
Nov 2021

Which succeeded in thwarting LBJ's peace efforts. And the result was that thousands of troops on both sides died unnecessarily in the continued years of fighting. And Nixon had no government standing - but that was 50 years ago, too late now to prosecute him. But it's not too late to prosecute TFG - for so many, many illegal acts.

JustAnotherGen

(31,828 posts)
42. I used your info in
Fri Nov 12, 2021, 06:08 AM
Nov 2021

Correspondence to my Senators and Rep yesterday - asked for a response.

Either repeal the Logan Act or Grenell should be arrested by the FBI.

A private citizen cannot negotiate with foreign governments.

And the foreign government needs to be "dismissed" by this Administration.

They are too stupid to negotiate anything with.

But if you are correct - then we shouldn't have this law. It's as stupid as the two Antebellum relics: Electoral College and the Filibuster "rule" (not a law).

SergeStorms

(19,201 posts)
23. He could very well be in violation...
Thu Nov 11, 2021, 06:13 PM
Nov 2021

of the Logan Act, but who would enforce it?

Trump thinks he's completely above the law, and I've seen no evidence to persuade me he isn't. Our Attorney General has shown no inclination to hold him, or his cohorts, responsible for anything.

Thanks for posting the information concerning the Logan Act. It saved me from looking it up.

JustAnotherGen

(31,828 posts)
41. It's not TFG
Fri Nov 12, 2021, 06:02 AM
Nov 2021

It's Grenell.

And - yes. I wrote emails to my Federal Reps yesterday and clicked "I would like a response."

Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #5)

CaliforniaPeggy

(149,627 posts)
6. This is really pushing the boundaries of what's legal. He is so far out of bounds that it's crazy.
Thu Nov 11, 2021, 04:17 PM
Nov 2021

He must be stopped.

WHY HAVEN'T WE STOPPED HIM ALREADY?


BlueIdaho

(13,582 posts)
10. What TFG has is a
Thu Nov 11, 2021, 04:27 PM
Nov 2021

Snapshot of somebody - back to camera - strolling near a one lane port of entry. This is nothing but bullshit clickbait nonsense. Is there a picture of foreign officials sitting at a table with his “envoy” flanked by flags and the usual props? No.

This photo could have been staged at one of the border crossings in rural northern Idaho where I live. For me it’s easier to believe he’s making shit up… again.

wnylib

(21,484 posts)
25. As a fundraiser, no doubt.
Thu Nov 11, 2021, 06:16 PM
Nov 2021

Last edited Thu Nov 11, 2021, 10:27 PM - Edit history (1)

If he was really sending a private envoy, Biden would be on him for it. It's one kind of interference that Biden would never tolerate.

But if he only claims to be doing it, then it's fraudeulent fundraising that probably nobody will pursue him for.

Polly Hennessey

(6,798 posts)
13. He can send all the idiots he wants to
Thu Nov 11, 2021, 05:03 PM
Nov 2021

to any border. So what! It only matters if we give it our attention. Maybe inattention will help him wither away.

FelineOverlord

(3,580 posts)
14. He also has
Thu Nov 11, 2021, 05:05 PM
Nov 2021

His “War Room” tweeting out his Veterans Day message

A way of getting around his Twitter ban. Let’s see how long it stays up.


Demovictory9

(32,457 posts)
21. Yep. others have been tweeting out his message..an admission parlor and other sites
Thu Nov 11, 2021, 06:04 PM
Nov 2021

Cant compete with twitter

bucolic_frolic

(43,176 posts)
16. From where, His Eminence's Royal Mar-A-Lago Compound?
Thu Nov 11, 2021, 05:47 PM
Nov 2021

Isn't secession illegal? Shouldn't the rebellion be put down? He must still be getting counsel from Ghouliani, who had representatives of the City of New York overseas. Seriously acting in the name of the US without authorization is not something you or I could do ... the Feds would arrive promptly ... or the medics. I mean WTF?

IronLionZion

(45,450 posts)
17. Like Napoleon, he should go rule his Elba
Thu Nov 11, 2021, 05:50 PM
Nov 2021

or in this case he can go live on his buddy Epstein's island until he is convicted of his many crimes and sent to prison

Harker

(14,022 posts)
19. Then maybe his shadow AG should do something about his insane delusion
Thu Nov 11, 2021, 05:59 PM
Nov 2021

that he's "running" anything other than his mouth.

SergeStorms

(19,201 posts)
20. I think this would qualify as evidence...
Thu Nov 11, 2021, 06:04 PM
Nov 2021

for involuntary observation in a mental health facility of the state's choosing.

Oh, that's right....he's in Florida. From what I've seen there aren't any mental health facilities in the state. If there were the state's population would drop lower than North Dakota's.

You can bet TFG is up to something else over there. If he's telling you to look in one direction, be sure to concentrate on the opposite direction.

Kaleva

(36,307 posts)
24. It's a good thing he's so clueless and out of touch.
Thu Nov 11, 2021, 06:16 PM
Nov 2021

It's pretty much impossible to formulate plans based on fantasy that would have a chance to succeed in the real world.

onethatcares

(16,169 posts)
28. what he did serves two purposes
Thu Nov 11, 2021, 06:32 PM
Nov 2021

he sits behind a desk in mar a lardo and says something to piss us off, we take the bait and run with it.....he wins.

he sits behind a desk in mar a lardo and says something to get his base up and send him money......he wins.

How do we beat that down? The f ing media eats this shit up for ratings cause they win either way.

He's not running anything and his "envoy" is a nothing burger.

LudwigPastorius

(9,155 posts)
29. The emperor not only doesn't have any clothes,...
Thu Nov 11, 2021, 06:39 PM
Nov 2021

he's not the fucking emperor.


Trump is absolutely gibbering & barking insane.

HighFired49

(351 posts)
35. He has never given up the Presidency
Thu Nov 11, 2021, 07:20 PM
Nov 2021

Not long ago, Mark Meadows told CNN that TFG has been meeting with his "cabinet". I thought that maybe it was just the furniture..
. .. Guess not.

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