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(4,175 posts)vlyons
(10,252 posts)nt
paleotn
(17,930 posts)IcyPeas
(21,884 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)I think he's in violation of it . . .
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/LSB/LSB10058
The Logan Act, which has been the subject of much recent debate, generally makes it illegal for U.S.
citizens to engage in unauthorized diplomacy with foreign countries with intent to influence the
measures or conduct of a foreign government or to defeat the measures of the United States . . . .
Prosecutors have only brought two Logan Act indictments since its enactment, neither of which led to
conviction. As stated by one commentator, the Act has been called a dead letter, an anachronism, a
curious federalist antique, the most moribund of federal statutes, and an eighteenth century relic that
slumbers in splendid disregard. Others have noted that the statute is not completely moribundthe State
Department has occasionally enforced the Logan Acts prohibitions by way of passport suspensions and
travel restrictions, and there has been a successful court martial of a U.S. serviceman for conduct of the
kind barred by the statute. But regardless of the debate over the Logan Acts precise history, its sparse use
in its intended criminal context is undisputed, which raises significant legal questions for Congress.
History - sounds like what Grenell did - only he's not even an elected official -
Background:
during the Federalist-dominated John Adams Administration. George Logan, a member of the opposition
Republican Party, traveled to France to meet with French ministers and to attempt to reduce the tensions
between the two countries. This trip met with a backlash back home, particularly among the Federalists
who controlled the government. Upon Dr. Logans return, Congress passed what would come to be
known as the Logan Act in an effort to criminalize any future private diplomacy.
Since the Logan Acts enactment in 1799, there apparently have been only two prosecutions under the
statute, neither of which led to a conviction. In 1803, a grand jury indicted a Kentucky farmer named
Francis Flournoy for writing an article in the Frankfort Guardian of Freedom arguing for a separate
Western United States allied to France. The case went no further than the indictment. Then, in 1853, one
Jonas P. Levy was arrested and held to bail under the Logan Act for having written a letter to the
President of Mexico. This case, as well, was ultimately dropped. It appears that no indictment under the
Logan Act has been brought in the 165 years since
SCantiGOP
(13,871 posts)I think the only time it would be used is if someone in government, maybe in the minority party, were to sit down with another country and try to negotiate a deal contrary to what the actual government was trying to accomplish. We now know that Nixon told the Vietnamese that they would get a better deal if they waited for his Administration to get elected instead of taking a deal with the Johnson Administration. Had that been known at the time and proven it would have been an obvious violation.
And I remember when Jesse Jackson went to Syria to free an American airman who had been shot down over Lebanon. The Reagan Administration did not agree to his action, and a lot of right wingers wanted Jackson arrested. After his effort was successful and he returned with the American prisoner, no one mentioned pursuing the matter further.
Marcuse
(7,487 posts)cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)and then oddly enough after Trump won the sanctions against Russia enacted by the US were oddly blunted.
cloudbase
(5,520 posts)Johnson and the powers that be didn't publicize it because doing so would have let the world know that we had Thieu's entire world bugged so thoroughly that he couldn't fart without us knowing.
SCantiGOP
(13,871 posts)I remember that now.
I think the Logan Act was needed at a time when a good portion of the people in the newly constituted country wanted to reunite with England, but not sure it is practical to enforce it today. Besides, we have about 25 more serious and direct crimes that should be used to convict the Orange Usurper.
Rhiannon12866
(205,467 posts)Which succeeded in thwarting LBJ's peace efforts. And the result was that thousands of troops on both sides died unnecessarily in the continued years of fighting. And Nixon had no government standing - but that was 50 years ago, too late now to prosecute him. But it's not too late to prosecute TFG - for so many, many illegal acts.
JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)Correspondence to my Senators and Rep yesterday - asked for a response.
Either repeal the Logan Act or Grenell should be arrested by the FBI.
A private citizen cannot negotiate with foreign governments.
And the foreign government needs to be "dismissed" by this Administration.
They are too stupid to negotiate anything with.
But if you are correct - then we shouldn't have this law. It's as stupid as the two Antebellum relics: Electoral College and the Filibuster "rule" (not a law).
SergeStorms
(19,201 posts)of the Logan Act, but who would enforce it?
Trump thinks he's completely above the law, and I've seen no evidence to persuade me he isn't. Our Attorney General has shown no inclination to hold him, or his cohorts, responsible for anything.
Thanks for posting the information concerning the Logan Act. It saved me from looking it up.
JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)It's Grenell.
And - yes. I wrote emails to my Federal Reps yesterday and clicked "I would like a response."
Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #5)
cstanleytech This message was self-deleted by its author.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,627 posts)He must be stopped.
WHY HAVEN'T WE STOPPED HIM ALREADY?
malaise
(269,040 posts)My dear CaliforniaPeggy.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,627 posts)Rhiannon12866
(205,467 posts)blm
(113,063 posts)Grasswire2
(13,571 posts)Demovictory9
(32,457 posts)BlueIdaho
(13,582 posts)Snapshot of somebody - back to camera - strolling near a one lane port of entry. This is nothing but bullshit clickbait nonsense. Is there a picture of foreign officials sitting at a table with his envoy flanked by flags and the usual props? No.
This photo could have been staged at one of the border crossings in rural northern Idaho where I live. For me its easier to believe hes making shit up
again.
wnylib
(21,484 posts)Last edited Thu Nov 11, 2021, 10:27 PM - Edit history (1)
If he was really sending a private envoy, Biden would be on him for it. It's one kind of interference that Biden would never tolerate.
But if he only claims to be doing it, then it's fraudeulent fundraising that probably nobody will pursue him for.
BlueIdaho
(13,582 posts)Just another phony grift from that lying gasbag.
keithbvadu2
(36,823 posts)His qualifications are that he drives a GMC?
Polly Hennessey
(6,798 posts)to any border. So what! It only matters if we give it our attention. Maybe inattention will help him wither away.
FelineOverlord
(3,580 posts)His War Room tweeting out his Veterans Day message
A way of getting around his Twitter ban. Lets see how long it stays up.
Link to tweet
Demovictory9
(32,457 posts)Cant compete with twitter
bucolic_frolic
(43,176 posts)Isn't secession illegal? Shouldn't the rebellion be put down? He must still be getting counsel from Ghouliani, who had representatives of the City of New York overseas. Seriously acting in the name of the US without authorization is not something you or I could do ... the Feds would arrive promptly ... or the medics. I mean WTF?
IronLionZion
(45,450 posts)or in this case he can go live on his buddy Epstein's island until he is convicted of his many crimes and sent to prison
spanone
(135,844 posts)Harker
(14,022 posts)that he's "running" anything other than his mouth.
SergeStorms
(19,201 posts)for involuntary observation in a mental health facility of the state's choosing.
Oh, that's right....he's in Florida. From what I've seen there aren't any mental health facilities in the state. If there were the state's population would drop lower than North Dakota's.
You can bet TFG is up to something else over there. If he's telling you to look in one direction, be sure to concentrate on the opposite direction.
Kaleva
(36,307 posts)It's pretty much impossible to formulate plans based on fantasy that would have a chance to succeed in the real world.
CCExile
(469 posts)Duppers
(28,125 posts)onethatcares
(16,169 posts)he sits behind a desk in mar a lardo and says something to piss us off, we take the bait and run with it.....he wins.
he sits behind a desk in mar a lardo and says something to get his base up and send him money......he wins.
How do we beat that down? The f ing media eats this shit up for ratings cause they win either way.
He's not running anything and his "envoy" is a nothing burger.
LudwigPastorius
(9,155 posts)he's not the fucking emperor.
Trump is absolutely gibbering & barking insane.
yaesu
(8,020 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(49,002 posts)HighFired49
(351 posts)Not long ago, Mark Meadows told CNN that TFG has been meeting with his "cabinet". I thought that maybe it was just the furniture..
. .. Guess not.