Before Dismissing 2-Month Sentences in the January 6 Cases

[MineralMan]

as next to nothing, please take a few minutes to imagine yourself in a prison cell for two months. We're not going to see long sentences imposed on most of the 1/6 defendants. Instead, most will receive short ones like that 2-month sentence given to one offender yesterday. Those sentences will probably seem too short to most of us. They seem too short to me, too.

However, I have never been in jail or prison. Still, when I contemplate spending time in a cell, I realize that I would certainly not consider two months in one as a trivial punishment. It would be a complete reversal of my normal life. I would not have access to the internet. I would not be able to sit and watch the morning or evening news and discuss stories with my wife over coffee. I would not be able to get in my car, as I will this morning, and go to the supermarket to pick up the things I forgot to buy on Wednesday. I would not be able to pat my dog on the head or pet my cat as she sits in my lap.

Instead, I'd be sitting on a thin mattress in a tiny cell, with nothing to do but contemplate the combination toilet and sink just feet away from me. I'd be eating whatever passed as food there. I would not have a TV or a daily newspaper. Two months of that would certainly feel like a much longer period of time.

Yes, those are short sentences, but they are jail or prison sentences, nevertheless. Most people have never been in jail. Most of those who participated in that insurrection have not, either. They're not going to be happy at all during their stay at the Graybar Hotel. Nope. They will reflect on their punishment and wonder why they participated in that in the first place. Most will not repeat that behavior.

No, the sentences don't seem long enough, but there it is.

[shelshaw]

1. And it looks great on a resume too!

[MineralMan]

2. Yes, there's that, too.

[padfun]

12. Just don't put it on the resume.

No one ever finds out unless you are going for a high security position, which most people don't.

[TwilightZone]

19. That's not true.

I did some consulting for a company that does background security checks. Many companies check every potential employee, starting at entry-level. Many more check everyone from low-level management up.

Apply for a manager position at a McDonalds and they're probably going to run a security check.

[padfun]

25. True, but most won't go for those kinds of jobs

And if you did consulting then you know damn well that any check is only for felonies.

These insurrectionist are pleading to misdemeanors.


Edit: I mean most of these people are Walmart types. They aren't going for any decent job

[Hortensis]

32. Rent/lease checks also? Generally speaking, criminal records

may not only close off a lot of job opportunities, pushing people into jobs with smaller or more marginal companies, including some that have trouble getting and keeping employees, but narrow options for where they can rent. Plus, they often have to pay higher prices for some things, like car leases.

Btw, many do or did have decent jobs and presumably need them in order to continue decent lifestyles.

Legal bills? Not all will be covered by fickle fellow "patriots" as attention shifts elsewhere.

[padfun]

35. I had several misdemeanors, including intent to sell marijuana.

Yet I got a Real Estate license, got a MCSE, and worked as a supervisor at a computer manufacturer.

I also got a Government job and a security clearance, however on that one, I did list a few (not all) misdemeanors just in case.

[LiberalFighter]

39. You used the past tense and

likely would be more difficult now.

[padfun]

42. I don't doubt that

Back then, there were no camera's, computers, etc.

It would be harder now days but there are still plenty of jobs these Walmart types can get.

[COL Mustard]

58. A Misdemeanor Isn't Generally Disqualifying For A Government Job Or A Clearance.

A felony, OTOH, is disqualifying for a Government job (at least Federal) and probably for a clearance, depending on the circumstances. But it's better to report it than to have the investigators find out about it during the investigation. That will never go well.

[Hortensis]

94. :) Voice of experience nevertheless. However, ...!

Applicants are passed over all the time for many reasons, no need to have a check on the prior record box combined with a guideline ruling any who checked that box out.

My own varied past includes a period reviewing and rejecting or forwarding applicants on for preliminary job interviews at a university. Even a little competition for a job means some have to be passed over.

[yardwork]

34. Not true at all. Most employers do criminal background checks.

Applicants are asked if they've been convicted of a crime, and if they lie, that alone is grounds for termination.

[Ocelot II]

44. They do now that background searches are all computerized.

Even twenty years ago I had to await the completion of a background check for a job that didn't involve high security. If you want something more professional than Walmart greeter they are likely to check you out. In my state there's a public database that anyone can access in two minutes that contains all criminal and civil records, even speeding tickets.

[paleotn]

48. Nope. Criminal convictions is part of the basic background check.

As a hiring manager, I've had a couple come back bad on the criminal convictions side, giving me a tough decision to make. And that's not for positions requiring any kind of security clearance. It's just the basic background review done for just about every job short of bagging groceries or flipping burgers.

[Traildogbob]

80. Some may

Lose their jobs when asking for two months off for prison time for insurrection and trying to overthrow the government and shutting in democracy. Not ALL bosses look kindly on that.

[Demsrule86]

91. People who lie about felonies get caught.

[treestar]

108. Then there is a gap

which raises curiosity.

[COL Mustard]

56. And There's The Loss Of Income

And the inability to pay your bills, and a million other little things that will be disrupted. Too bad they didn't think about that stuff before they tried to overturn the election.

Sympathy? Look in the dictionary, between s--t and syphilis. It's in there!

[vlyons]

65. my thought exactly

A jail conviction forever on their record. And employers do check for that. Just wait until they try to get a home loan, or refinance an existing loan. Do you think a current employer will hold his job open? A jail conviction is the gift that keeps on giving.

Personally a 2 year sentence seems about right to me.

[True Blue American]

74. That was my first thought.

[leftieNanner]

3. And don't forget the indignity

of the strip and cavity search you must undergo when you walk in the door.

I don't think I would do very well there either MM.

[MineralMan]

5. Indeed. There are lots of indignities to be

endured. It's not a nice place to be at all.

[secondwind]

4. I have always seen it this way also, MineralMan........

Sitting in a small cubicle for any length of time is a nightmare... Just ask Derek Chauvin... and he's only been in jail a few months.

[MineralMan]

7. True. I know we're all angry about those who

participated in that riot or whatever you want to call it, but most there did not do anything violent or dangerous to others, actually. I watched the whole thing unfold. Those who caused harm to others, naturally, need much longer sentences, and we're starting to see those being ordered in some cases. That's good, but there are still going to be plenty of people who get short stays in the slammer, based on what can be proven in court.

[Lucky Luciano]

64. The 2 months misdemeanor is fine as long as they are also charged

…with the more serious crime of sedition.

This was an attempted coup in addition to trespassing.

[IrishAfricanAmerican]

6. Agree except...

They will reflect on their punishment and wonder why they participated in that in the first place. Most will not repeat that behavior.

I believe that will be true for some, maybe even many but a lot of them are so hypnotized by the incessant RW propaganda hose, they will remain "true believers" and continue to push forward in their plan to "take back America" whatever that means to them. This level of religious fervor and racist indoctrination is powerful, bad medicine and it is not easily dealt with. In those cases even a 2 year sentence would probably do more harm than good, further radicalization would no doubt take place the longer those types were incarcerated.

[MineralMan]

10. Well, while there in jail or prison, they're going to be pretty

isolated from the constant feed of incitement, I think. There won't be any rallies with speakers exhorting them to action.

Every case is unique, though. Some will figure it out. Others will not, and will leave their cells just as stupid as they were when they entered them.

[IrishAfricanAmerican]

15. If it's prison...

there are gangs in prison. Plenty of influences for these types.

It it's jail, there usually is television.

[ratchiweenie]

84. That's true and much of the time is in the common areas. My son has been in jail ( he's bipolar)

and he says most of the people there are very right wing. He keeps his mouth shut at all times. Many of those people will be heroes in jail and will be given lots of special treatment by the guards and other right-wing, white supremacist jail mates. The food will suck but they will have commissary account. They will be able to call their families often and they won't be terribly isolated. It won't be fun but it won't be prison.

Wish it was actual prison time but alas, it's not.

[IrishAfricanAmerican]

92. Yup.

That's spot on.

[Mr.Bill]

101. I hear that some federal prisons

don't take very good care of their golf courses or tennis courts.

[ratchiweenie]

122. Too funny.

[padfun]

8. I've been in jail several times

And it is a piece of cake. It's not prison, which needs a year or more, and most county jails out west feed quite well.

The most I ever did was 3 months so that wasn't bad. The best eating jails were Eureka CA, Bisbee AZ, and Santa Barbara CA.

It's been more than 35 years now but according to my nephew, they haven't changed. If these guys didn't have a job, then they just got a free stay with good food, especially if it is a fed jail, however most feds sent their guys to the county jails since they feds don't have small time jails.

[MineralMan]

11. Well, you have far more experience than I do, certainly.

[IL Dem]

54. I wouldn't say jail is a piece of cake.

My son was in a county jail for 16 months awaiting trial on his charges. The jail is in the basement of the courthouse. He never saw the outside at all that whole time. His mental health took a beating. I was unable to post bail. He is now in a minimum security state prison and the conditions are much better for him.

Governor Pritzker signed a bill that will eliminate cash bail for most non-violent offenders. Unfortunately, it was too late for my son.

[GoCubsGo]

9. Also, kiss good-bye any privacy one might have.

None of that in a prison cell, especially if you have a cellmate.

Martha Stewart served for three months in what's considered a fairly cushy place, by prison standards. That experience was enough to change her for the better. One can only hope these prison terms have a similar effect on these traitors, as short as they are. I don't think most of them are getting assigned to "Camp Cupcake" like Martha did, either. They'll be a lot worse places, most likely.

[MineralMan]

14. I'm not sure where federal convictees serve short sentences.

I would guess that they get remanded to jails in local jurisdictions, since the federal government doesn't really operate jails - just prisons. At least as far as I know.

[Seiad]

13. I spent just under a week in a jail cell...

.... 35 years ago. You are absolutely correct. Mid 80's. Times were different then. It definitely played a roll in changing my direction in life. Don't want to ever do that again, obviously. It's a cold, unsympathetic, stark, I could go on, reality that I'll never forget. Vividly.

[MineralMan]

17. Thanks for sharing your experience.

That's how I imagine being in jail to be, although I have no experience with it.

[LakeArenal]

16. Prison is a lot different than jail.

Prison is much worse.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

18. 💯 % agree. The foot soldiers of fascism get these sentences, the commanders, much more.

[MineralMan]

22. Well, as disorganized as the January 6 riot was,

there really weren't all that many "commanders," I think. As I watched things unfold that day, it occurred to me that we were lucky that it was pretty much just an unorganized rabble. If there had been real organization, things would have been much, much worse.

There were a few small groups that were acting together like a military platoon. Most of the crowd, though, had no leadership and no real idea of what to do next. As people swarmed into the Capitol, I saw a lot of the participants standing and just looking around aimlessly. They got in and then it was, "What now?"

It reminded me a lot of some of the large street antiwar protests I was part of back in the late 1960s in the DC area. I wasn't any sort of leader, but was more of a producer of posters and slogans, but I was on the scene during the protests. Most of the attendees had no idea of what to do. They were there in the same mood as people at a rock concert are there. They provided numbers, but were completely unorganized. I saw it as a real problem, since nobody had any real control over the situation if things heated up. So, at the actual protests, I was usually somewhere at the rear of things, most of the time.

[NH Ethylene]

49. Good points.

I went to DC for a Vietnam Peace Moratorium and was (willingly) swept up in a crowd to storm the Justice Dep't to free Bobby Seale. Of course, we didn't even get close before tear-gassed into eye-stinging submission, but had we actually arrived and entered the building, I would have been just like many of these 'swept up in the moment' participants (minus the hateful agenda, naturally), looking around and wondering what happens now. Punishment would have been warranted, but not years in prison, surely.

It's hard to look at things objectively when great passions are ignited, which happens when there is a violent threat to your government and way of life. Kudos to you for doing that with this thread.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

55. Yes, agree, aside from the kill pence chants as they tried to find him with a gallows

for him preconstructed outside, from where nearby their dear leader had egged them in and on.

That was organized.

[MineralMan]

78. Not necessarily. It's very easy to get a chant going in

a crowd of protesters of any kind. One person can get it started. I know, because I was a chant leader in many DC antiwar protests. I even wrote a couple of them. The crowd follows along very easily. The crowd wants to make noise and a chant leader takes advantage of that very simply.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

102. Probably not kill the vp or anyone else chants in Congress tho?

[MineralMan]

103. No, none of that.

[erronis]

85. I took Alexander of Assyria's "commanders" to mean the top brass. trump and people around him.

Altho I doubt my dreams will come true.

Penalties:
- 1 year in jail (or prison) for each death during the insurrection. For all leaders (trump, bannon, miller, many others)
- 6 months for aiding and abetting and encouraging the insurrection.
- Stiff financial penalties for news groups and social media platforms that helped foment this discord and rebellion.
- Forfeiture of all weaponry by any participants in the insurrection - whether or not sentenced to jail time.
- Permanent marks on their criminal records.
- Sanctions against the foreign leaders who promoted this activity. (Yes, we know who you are.)
- Sanctions against the oligarchs that fed this insurrection - both US and foreign
- Loss of travel privileges to and from the US (passports, other travel documents)

OK, I got carried away in my little wet dream....

[ShazzieB]

88. That was my impression as well.

There were a few small groups that were acting together like a military platoon. Most of the crowd, though, had no leadership and no real idea of what to do next. As people swarmed into the Capitol, I saw a lot of the participants standing and just looking around aimlessly. They got in and then it was, "What now?"

Aside from the small groups you mentioned (the Proud Boys, et al.), I believe most of those people went to the Capitol simply because Trump told them to. Remember how he said he was going with them? I can't remember the exact quote now, but it it was clear to me that most of them assumed he'd tell them what to do once they arrived.

A certain percentage went in there with murderous intent and were armed accordingly, but I think most went there just because TFG told them to, with no clear idea of what was supposed to happen.

[Walleye]

20. Maybe if you're young not too bad but, if you are way past halfway in your life

You don’t want to waste any of the time you have that. I know I spent two nights just in a hospital not too long ago, and it freaked me out, and I was treated very, very well, and the food was not that bad. And at least the bathroom was private

[TwilightZone]

21. I spent a weekend in jail at age 15.

It was enough to convince me to avoid any behavior that would lead to that again.

For some, this will be a big deal, especially people like the Texas real estate agent who claimed she'd never go to jail. It's going to be a shock to her previously-cushy life, and she is not going to have a pleasant experience.

[MineralMan]

24. Yes. The pampered and privileged are not going to enjoy

their jail experience. That's putting it mildly. Imagine a Karen in jail. Uffda.

[COL Mustard]

62. Well, For The Karens,

The manager is always close by!

[BigMin28]

23. If they get 2 months

Do they have to serve the full 2 months, or is there a possibility of early release?

[MineralMan]

26. I don't know, actually.

I'm not sure how that works at the federal level.

[padfun]

28. It depends on if you want to become a trustee.

You will do some work but it usually cuts your sentence by a third. 9 weeks would only serve 6 weeks.

and if they have been sitting in jail, they will get time served.

[gulliver]

27. Punish the Republican Party with the two-month sentences given to their "spokespeople"

Constantly ask every Republican politician what they think of the two-month sentences. Keep reminding people of who the Republicans are in bed with (but don't invite to hang out at their homes). The people actually getting the two-month sentences have nothing to lose.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

29. Plus all the repercussions of crim record, plus many are one paycheck away from bankruptcy. However

However, that real estate agent who went to the insurrection by private jet and claimed to be too white and blond to be incarcerated, ... she will use it to advertise her business.

[MineralMan]

31. Plus, if you have a job and are gone for a couple of months,

you probably won't have that job when you get out. Most businesses aren't too happy when an employee can't show up for a month or two, it seems to me.

Personally, I think that real estate agent is not going to do well with her jail time. People with excessive privilege usually don't. It can be a real wake-up call, I imagine.

[yardwork]

30. To me, the constant danger would be terrifying.

Danger from other inmates, danger from guards.

And they'll have criminal records for the rest of their lives. Most employers - contrary to the fond beliefs of these self-described "freedom fighters" - are reluctant to hire people convicted of violent crimes.

Their lives are changed forever.

[MineralMan]

33. I think so, too.

The more you have to lose, the more you do lose, I imagine. For the average person, the jail or prison environment is so foreign to them that they will have a real shock facing them.

[twodogsbarking]

36. Are they eligible for work release?

[MineralMan]

38. I don't know, actually.

I suspect, though, that short jail terms don't usually provide enough time for such programs to be part of the situation.

I'm not really familiar with federal jail procedures for short misdemeanor sentences. I don't think there are a lot of federal jails. Most facilities are prisons, designed for longer terms of imprisonment.

Perhaps they contract short sentences out to local jail systems. But, I don't know.

[twodogsbarking]

79. It is a bit like prison-lite.

[Ocelot II]

37. I have visited a couple of prisons to see clients years ago,

and if I'd ever been inclined toward a career in crime in the first place, just those few visits - one of them to a "nice" minimum-security federal prison; the others a not-so-nice state prison - and that was enough to convince me that I didn't want to do anything that carried the slightest risk of even a short stay. If you haven't seen the inside you don't know how grim it is, even these days. It's not the Bastille or Alcatraz but it's pretty nasty. These "patriot" wannabes are in for a huge shock, and that two-month sentence will be a long, miserable two months.

[MineralMan]

41. Yes, I agree. While serving on a county grand jury for a year,

one of our mandated jobs was to inspect and investigate the local jails and prisons. I was part of that committee, so we visited all of them, including the state prison and the mental hospital where people were confined by the stated. Not nice places at all. Not places I would ever want to be, as you said.

[unc70]

50. Bastille was relatively nice

Relatively few prisoners, mostly prominent and wealthy. They could bring their own furniture, some even had servants with them.

[Ocelot II]

52. Prisoners, even important ones, don't get to do that any more.

I hope TFG will learn that through direct experience, though that might be a vain hope.

[FakeNoose]

68. Haven't the Repukes changed all of that? Many federal prisons are privatized now

For all I know, maybe some state prisons are also privately managed.

I believe the old system of federal prisons has been outsourced to private industry. At least that's what they were/are trying to do, just like they want to privatize the public schools and the U.S. Postal Service. It's just one more reason why we can't allow the Repukes to manage the federal government ever again.

[erronis]

86. That's a really good point. Corporatists run the joints so money will definitely grease the wheel.

I know my little state (VT) spends way too much money sending many of our convicted to out-of-state facilities in places like Mississippi, Tennessee (running out of letters). I'm sure that the Corrections-Corp-of_America (or whatever it has rebranded itself as today) will accept cash from some inmates for certain privileges. However I'll bet they'll be smart enough to only accept cash (hard $$$$s) from the trump family - up front.

[George II]

40. Most of the people commenting and bashing these sentences, and the proceedings in general....

....have zero knowledge or experience in the law.

As for your main premise, I doubt I'd be able to survive with my sanity even one night in jail, much less sixty or more.

[MineralMan]

43. Exactly so.

The closest I have ever been to anything like that was Basic Training in the USAF. Didn't like that one bit.

[George II]

69. Try spending four hours at my in-laws on Thanksgiving!

[MineralMan]

76. LOL. Sadly, my wife's parents are gone, as are mine.

[Progressive Jones]

105. Are you, yourself, a lawyer, or a judge? nt

[Alpeduez21]

45. I could two months standing on my head

Yeah, the time off work would be a problem maybe lose a job. Sure the discomfort of jail would suck mainly the noise level. The threat of violence. I get that. If you can't do two months you can't do much. You put your head down, you keep your mouth shut, eat whatever is fed to you, stand where your told to stand. Things could go south real fast but too bad you shouldn't have been part of a coup attempt.

I am peeved at how leniently these white conservative criminals are getting treated.

[Ocelot II]

53. Maybe you could but I doubt most of these patriot wannabes could.

They think they're special. They won't keep their mouths shut or their heads down, and they might discover the hard way that their cellmates don't share their opinions.

[Wednesdays]

87. Indeed, a heavy percentage of prison population is of POC

Who would not take kindly to cell mates associated with the Proud Boys.

[COL Mustard]

66. It's Also The Complete Lack Of Control Over Your Own Life

As I understand it, every day in prison starts with a headcount at 0600 and there are random headcounts throughout the day. Meals are served when they're served. And there's a guard patrolling at night, so your sleep will probably not be great, especially on the thin mattresses you have. No sleep number there!

[pandr32]

46. A good reminder

There is also the quick return built into a prison sentence once that is on one's record in case they repeat criminal behavior.

[Orrex]

47. Each should get the maximum fines & jail time allowed by law

And fuck the misdemeanor charges that some are getting.

Two months behind bars will be hard on them? Good. Give them 120 months.

[bigtree]

51. correct

...a month is like a lifetime.

Two...?

Weekends can break you down, as well.

[gab13by13]

57. From what I heard

they are putting them in the same area of the prison so they can plan the next violent act.

[bucolic_frolic]

59. I agree with a government as good as its people, making neither martyrs nor examples

but taxpayers got stuck with the cost (so far), and common criminals will compare their sentences to these privileged slobs for decades to come. You couldn't do this stuff at your local Walmart and walk away any time soon.

[paleotn]

60. Noise. The big thing is noise, or so I hear....

Pardon the pun. If one is use to sleeping in complete quiet, that's going to change. Prison is noisy 24/7. Unless one spent time in the Navy as I did, with a 6' x 2.5' x 1.5' rack and near constant activity, it's going to be a tough, tough adjustment.

[tblue37]

61. And, of course, the U.S. Is notorious for the deplorable conditions in most of our jails

and prisons.

[essaynnc]

63. are these misdemeanor or felony charges??? nt

[Bucky]

83. They'd be felonies. They attacked the capital, it wasn't just light vandalism

[appleannie1]

67. Then too, if looking for a job in the future, they will have prison time on their resume'.

So the future expanded sentence could be life altering.

[cate94]

70. The complete lack of privacy

Would drive me mad.

[kcr]

71. I agree. Two months is not nothing.

I can't imagine doing a day let alone a month or two. I imagine it would feel like years. Not that I think they don't deserve more. Just to say I hear where you're coming from.

[captain queeg]

72. I've spent a couple days in jail. For me it was terrible.

But I suppose it depends on your personality, current life style, age and health. The last time I was older and really in poor health so it was miserable. Talking to others there, they all said prison was easier. I think maybe because you got out of your cell for awhile every day. For me confinement was rough, since I’ve always prioritized freedom in my life. The guys that had past experience didn’t seem to take it too hard but didn’t sound like they had regular jobs and stable home life. I know I’d never want to go back.

[bluestarone]

73. True words. HIS life will definitley change. (he loves his freedom i'm sure) PLUS i'm not sure but

If he continues his behavior THIS can be repeated?

[Aviation Pro]

75. I don't know if credit ratings are affected

But insurance companies run full background checks nowadays. Good luck getting mandated insurance at a reasonable price because you're now considered a risk.

[jmowreader]

77. Spot on, except for the sitting-on-a-mattress part

You’d be working the shittiest job you can imagine. Most of these idiots are going to spend those couple of months walking down the shoulder of a freeway with a garbage bag in one hand and a pair of long tongs in the other.

[Elessar Zappa]

81. I can tell you from experience

that you’re correct. In my wilder days, I had a couple of four day stints in the county pen. Not fun at all. I was freezing the whole time, the lights were on 24/7, there was no clock, I had to go #2 in front of my cellmate and the guards on the outside. They were the longest pair of 96 hour periods in my life. I kissed the ground when I was released.

[Bucky]

82. I wonder how many end up joining Aryan Nation type gangs

I mean, I of course hope they don't get along. But some will. Some will get more radicalized.

[old guy]

89. The people we're talking about here

are not like normal people. They went there because they thought there would be no consequences for their actions. With these light sentences, they think they are right. Two months in jail may be a deterrent for me or you but I doubt it will be for them. The repubs are calling them patriots and going to jail will be the high point of their lives.

[Demsrule86]

90. And most are being charged with a felony which is on your permanent record.

[Kaleva]

93. A link to an article talking about consequences of a misdemeanor conviction

https://time.com/76356/a-misdemeanor-conviction-is-not-a-big-deal-right-think-again/

[MineralMan]

95. Thanks. That spells a lot out.

[Kaleva]

96. A federal misdemeanor conviction isn't a joke or slap on the wrist.

[Mr.Bill]

98. I don't want them put in jail to punish them.

I want them in jail because they are a danger to my way of life and my personal safety. They all need to be kept in a cage for a very long time.

[MineralMan]

99. They won't be, though.

Don't expect it.

[Mr.Bill]

100. I know.

They will all be out before the next presidentiial election.

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

104. These fascists need to be kept off the streets for at least a year.

As soon as they are out after their little slap on the wrist they will be quietly going underground plotting to help overthrow our democracy again.

If they would have captured Speaker Pelosi, they would have executed her in an orgy of manic blood lust, if they didn't just beat her to death on the spot after they got hold of her.

2 months is not near enough to teach them the lessons they need to learn.

You are clearly a nice person, Mineral Man, but with all due respect, naive about the undying love for their unspeakably wicked fuhrer. They worship him, and will continue to do anything for him, including give their life for him.

For genuine redemption and repentance to occur, empathy and a genuine change of heart are necessary. Fascists are not like liberals/progressives. They are the same people who assisted Hitler in creating an evil society dedicated to world domination and the extermination of anyone who is not like them.

For them, the crime is not the harm they cause to others. For them, the crime is getting caught at it.

Sounds harsh, but fuck these insurrectionists who had their "best day of their lives" moment of Kristallnacht. They saw their comrades beating the shit out of the Capitol police, and breaking into the Capitol, shouting "Hang Mike Pence" and "Where's Pelosi?". Yet they pressed onward. The only reason most of them did not commit acts of violence is that they were not presented with the opportunity to stomp the heads of police who stood in their way.

There would have been a much different outcome if the police had not been able to contain them, and there quite possibly could have been a slaughter, a mass murder of our elected representatives. Look what they did to the Capitol police. I have no doubt they would have done the same to our elected Democratic representatives. Thank all that is good in the universe that the police were able to contain them before they had a chance to beat innocent people to death, in service to the fascist lord and savior who they worship.

And now they are going through the justice system, pretending to be contrite, going to court and telling the judge

"We didn't know".

Fuck them. They are Nazis waiting to happen, and I'm never forgetting what they did of January 6th.

[MineralMan]

106. So, you would prefer some sort of extra-judicial punishment?

How does that work, exactly, and how does it help maintain a civilized society?

At what point do we adopt the tactics of the right-wingers and give up on the rule of law?

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

112. No. Simply charge and convict them for obstructing impeding a Congressional procceeding.

A person who corruptly or by threats or force obstructs or impedes a Congressional proceeding faces up to five years in prison. If the act involved domestic terrorism (acts that appear to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion), the penalty increases to an eight-year felony and up to a $250,000 fine.

(18 U.S.C. §§ 1505, 2331 (2020).

https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/federal-crimes-trespass-on-the-u-s-capitol.html

[MineralMan]

113. I'm quite certain that the DOJ is familiar with that statute.

Why aren't people being charged under it? I don't know, and I also don't know that nobody will be charged under it. Do you know? If so, how?

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

118. I don't know. All I know is that history teaches us that it is an enormous mistake

for legal authorities to mollycoddle fascist criminals.

[treestar]

114. What evidence is there that they would have killed Pelosi?

I don't recall that liberals were all for punishing people for what they might have done.

[treestar]

107. People who are in jail always wants to get out

as soon as possible, and cannot think of anything else. It is not as easy as it sounds to people who have never had to even think of ever being there.

[MineralMan]

109. Yes. I'm sure you're right.

As I said, I've never been jailed, but I can imagine the extreme mental stress of being confined and losing my freedom to do as I please. That's partly why I'm a law-abiding person, although my upbringing also plays a role in that.

Being in jail or prison is far from a pleasant, rewarding experience. That is as it should be, I think.

[treestar]

110. I'm amazed that as liberals we are being so punitive minded

Usually liberals are for rehabilitation.

All the wishing they can now not get a job, and will lose their job. That makes them desperate and they will only be more convinced that society is against them.

[MineralMan]

111. There is a fine line between us and them, I think.

We need to notice where that line is drawn and pay attention to where we are standing, it seems to me.

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

115. I'm not punitive minded in almost all cases.

However, attacking the Capitol and disrupting Congressional proceedings, with the intent of overthrowing democracy and a legitimately elected government, with the goal of ending democracy and installing a fascist dictator as POTUS, is a gravely serious matter.

That's right up there with rape, murder, and child molestation, in terms of seriousness.

These people believe in fascism and dictatorship, so much so that they attacked the seat of the United States government in order to bring their beliefs to fruition.

How much rehabilitation does it take to kill an idea?

[treestar]

117. Can they have intent to overthrow the government

when it was impossible for them to do by what they were doing? Or, if they intend to do it that way, when it was impossible, they are more stupid than anything else.

An intent like that would be much more insidious and could only be carried out by deep operatives. Someone like Cheney might be more likely to do that. In fact, I think that gang was trying to get the electorate to go along with it after 911.

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

119. Yes, they can have intent to overthrow a government when it is impossible

to do it. Stupid is not a valid excuse for an individual trying to overthrow the government, as a person actively taking part in an attempted insurrection.

I have several friends who did stupid things, like driving while drunk, who got way more jail time than these insurrectionists are getting.

[Kid Berwyn]

116. Gee. A man simply disrupted a BLM auction...

…and Tim DeChristopher got jailed for 21 months.

The Jan. 6 rioters wanted to disrupt Congress to overturn an election.

Traitors, IMO, deserve a more severe punishment than jail time. Otherwise, they’ll keep trying to overthrow the government.

[uponit7771]

120. If these people were black... Do I even need to finish

[MineralMan]

121. No, of course you don't need to finish.

We all know that.