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brooklynite

(94,727 posts)
Sun Nov 21, 2021, 02:35 PM Nov 2021

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Why Democrats' 'Talking Points Are Not Enough'

New York Times

Last year, after Joseph R. Biden Jr. won the Democratic presidential nomination, a group of progressive lawmakers rallied around him to project party unity at a critical time.

More than a year later, as the president seeks to pass a robust spending package of social policies that represent the bulk of his domestic agenda, many of the same leaders are looking for a return on their political investment.

In an interview with The New York Times, Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York, one of the country’s most prominent progressives, questioned whether Democratic leaders and the White House understood the scope of the demands coming from the party’s base.

The interview has been lightly edited and condensed for clarity.
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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Why Democrats' 'Talking Points Are Not Enough' (Original Post) brooklynite Nov 2021 OP
*Before the Virginia elections, it was very clear that our help and our participation was not wanted elleng Nov 2021 #1
It sounds as if there is some definitional confusion. lapucelle Nov 2021 #2
And in the Ohio 11 Primary LetMyPeopleVote Nov 2021 #17
Is this a more refined way of saying the Biden Plan is really just Hortensis Nov 2021 #3
K & R Thank You. Now, Fact-Checking their legislative voting record...um. No 🙄. Budi Nov 2021 #5
I just read something about radical-leaning thinking. betsuni Nov 2021 #9
Spot on. Hortensis Nov 2021 #16
FDR quote: betsuni Nov 2021 #18
:) Perfect. Reminds me that TR and his progressives were supposed to Hortensis Nov 2021 #21
Lunatic fringe is a gift to Republicans. betsuni Nov 2021 #27
TY empedocles Nov 2021 #10
Lots of pronouns in this thread Tetrachloride Nov 2021 #4
When I refer to Democrats or the Democratic Party I use the pronouns "WE" and "US". George II Nov 2021 #7
My Congressperson Rosa Delauro is a member of the Progressive Tomconroy Nov 2021 #6
She's an amazingly accomplished woman, very popular. When I first moved up here... George II Nov 2021 #8
Can somebody explain the logic here? LudwigPastorius Nov 2021 #11
It doesn't help at all. And I doubt she speaks for all progressives. Demsrule86 Nov 2021 #13
I think the BBB bill will pass the Senate but without the Tomconroy Nov 2021 #15
Moderates gave us the house...there are a handful of Squad members. Demsrule86 Nov 2021 #12
It was the moderates who tried to oust Pelosi. Elessar Zappa Nov 2021 #14
We wouldn't even have Cha Nov 2021 #19
Simple truth. As for Nancy, ambitious conservative blue dogs Hortensis Nov 2021 #20
Thanks for the history Cha Nov 2021 #26
I don't have a problem with all the moderates. Elessar Zappa Nov 2021 #23
Good! Cha Nov 2021 #25
There were lots of better names for them, but moderates isn't one. OnDoutside Nov 2021 #24
Because the only guy that matters is Joe Manchin BradAllison Nov 2021 #22

elleng

(131,100 posts)
1. *Before the Virginia elections, it was very clear that our help and our participation was not wanted
Sun Nov 21, 2021, 02:55 PM
Nov 2021

or asked for, which is fine. I’m not here to tell people how to run their races. But at the same time, to consider the members here that have some of the tightest relationships to our political base as just a uniform liability — and not something that can be selectively deployed, or consulted, or anything — I think it’s just sad. I think it was a mistake.

And we saw a big youth turnout collapse. Not a single person asked me to send an email, not even to my own list. And then they turn around and say, “It’s their fault.” When I think it was communicated quite expressly that we were unwelcome to pitch in.

The idea that we just accept a collapse in youth turnout — and essentially turn it into a self-fulfilling prophecy — in times when races are decided by such narrow margin points: I think it’s ill advised.'

lapucelle

(18,319 posts)
2. It sounds as if there is some definitional confusion.
Sun Nov 21, 2021, 03:07 PM
Nov 2021

Didn't the sophomore representative from NY-14 hold campaign events with the Democratic candidate in Buffalo's mayoral race?

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
3. Is this a more refined way of saying the Biden Plan is really just
Sun Nov 21, 2021, 03:57 PM
Nov 2021

Last edited Sun Nov 21, 2021, 04:32 PM - Edit history (1)

half a bowl of shit? Because it sure sounds like the same agenda to me.

Speaking of talking points not being enough (freudian-ish a bit?), those who call themselves Progressive but inexplicably refused to vote for the giant infrastructure and jobs bill are reportedly having trouble explaining themselves to the satisfaction of their genuinely progressive constituents.

All those paying any attention at all know that we're achieving more progressive goals right now than in the past 30 years and more! -- historic gains -- and that we're fighting for every inch we can get.

Want to understand the kind of oppositional behaviors that can turn "Progressive" into an oxymoron? Ask political psychologists. They're experts on radical-leaning and extremist political groups, who're drawn to them, and why they fail.

Voters can do with just knowing that, in over 130 years of active federal-level progressivism, factions unable to accept the compromises required by representative government of, by and for ALL people have NEVER achieved progressive change. Their score card: 0.

This isn't how it's done.

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
5. K & R Thank You. Now, Fact-Checking their legislative voting record...um. No 🙄.
Sun Nov 21, 2021, 04:30 PM
Nov 2021

Holee shit. it's getting deep.

Thank you, Hortensis.
You've put it in terms that makes sense.

The legislative voting record speaks for itself.

⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️

"those who call themselves progressive but inexplicably voted against the giant infrastructure and jobs bill are reportedly having trouble explaining themselves to the satisfaction of their genuinely progressive constituents."


Want to understand the kind of opposition that can turn "Progressive" into an oxymoron? Ask political psychologists. They're experts on radical-leaning and extremist political groups, who're drawn to them, and why they fail.

"Voters can do with just knowing that, in over 130 years of active federal-level progressivism, factions unable to accept the compromises required by representative government of, by and for ALL people have NEVER achieved progressive change.

Their score card: 0.

They're not the ones."

-----


betsuni

(25,612 posts)
9. I just read something about radical-leaning thinking.
Sun Nov 21, 2021, 07:47 PM
Nov 2021

Stunning overconfidence followed by failure leads to blaming others (always the Democratic Party). If you believe you're right and 90% of the American people support the revolution, failure is not because of voters.

Overconfidence leads to three mistakes:
Rejecting compromise to seek a revolution
Purity testing to vilify those who disagree
Slanderous myths to defeat the Democrats

Radicals want fundamental change and believe the only way is through revolution, liberals want fundamental change and believe this requires continuing incremental change and occasionally big incremental change. Liberals see this as a strategic difference but radicals are so convinced that only they are right and it's obvious they are right and everybody knows it, that if there is disagreement it's not strategy but corruption, immorality, or evil.

Radicals reject compromise for two reasons: getting the whole pie is the only righteous thing to do, and that rejecting half the pie makes it more likely to get the whole pie. Score card: 0.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
16. Spot on.
Sun Nov 21, 2021, 10:51 PM
Nov 2021

Rejecting half never gets them the whole pie, of course, but acting as spoiler throwing elections to Republicans is justified as righteous striving, and apparently also serves as a booby prize.

betsuni

(25,612 posts)
18. FDR quote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021, 11:54 PM
Nov 2021

"A radical is a man with both feet firmly planted -- in the air. A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs, who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. A liberal is a man who uses his legs and hands at the behest of his head."

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
21. :) Perfect. Reminds me that TR and his progressives were supposed to
Mon Nov 22, 2021, 11:05 AM
Nov 2021

have politicized the term "lunatic fringe"; and FDR's New Dealers, also plagued with hoards of upside-down wannabe revolutionaries, also used it.

"Lunatic fringe" had originally been inspired by an edgy new style of bangs, not seen by all as flattering. Those who hated walking forward, especially in women!, reportedly likened them to the hacked-off hair of women in asylums.



These days I wouldn't doubt it for a minute.





betsuni

(25,612 posts)
27. Lunatic fringe is a gift to Republicans.
Tue Nov 23, 2021, 01:25 AM
Nov 2021

Just saw an interview with one who supported the BREATHE act last year, interviewer asked the representative to explain why. Closing all federal prisons? "But in ten years!"



It was as if she hadn't read the bill, couldn't say anything coherent. This is fine for an activist, not fine for a legislator. "Talking points are not enough" indeed.

 

Tomconroy

(7,611 posts)
6. My Congressperson Rosa Delauro is a member of the Progressive
Sun Nov 21, 2021, 04:49 PM
Nov 2021

Caucus. She stays in it so she can tell her best friend in Congress Nancy Pelosi what a hardcore of at most 30 progressives are up to.

George II

(67,782 posts)
8. She's an amazingly accomplished woman, very popular. When I first moved up here...
Sun Nov 21, 2021, 05:39 PM
Nov 2021

...(temporarily, 34 years ago!) I was in Middletown, which is now Courtney's District. It looks like it'll be in DeLauro's District once the minor redistricting is complete.

We moved closer to Hartford in 2020, and have been in Larson's District since then.

I really like Larson, but would love to have DeLauro as my representative.

LudwigPastorius

(9,170 posts)
11. Can somebody explain the logic here?
Sun Nov 21, 2021, 09:28 PM
Nov 2021
She (AOC) said the reason the Progressive Caucus voted for the bipartisan infrastructure bill, which passed and was signed into law this month, were promises from President Joe Biden, House leadership, and other Democrats. Some liberals voted for the infrastructure package only after Biden and other Democrats assured them the social spending bill would pass.

"So if those promises don't follow through, it's going to be very, very difficult for them to get votes on anything moving forward, because the trust that was already so delicate will have been broken," Ocasio-Cortez told The Times.


https://www.businessinsider.com/aoc-social-spending-bill-doesnt-pass-trust-broken-among-democrats-2021-11

First of all, she voted against the infrastructure bill after the Senate passed it and sent it back to the House...as did Omar, Tlaib, and Pressley.

And second of all, if Manchin, or Sinema, or both of them, derail the Build Back Better Act, how is it helping anything for AOC and the progressives to then refuse to vote for any more Democratic House bills?
 

Tomconroy

(7,611 posts)
15. I think the BBB bill will pass the Senate but without the
Sun Nov 21, 2021, 10:29 PM
Nov 2021

Family leave provisions. I don't know what AOC will do when it returns to the House.

Elessar Zappa

(14,047 posts)
14. It was the moderates who tried to oust Pelosi.
Sun Nov 21, 2021, 10:04 PM
Nov 2021

Not the squad. I can’t forgive them for that, Pelosi is the best House speaker in history.

Cha

(297,643 posts)
19. We wouldn't even have
Mon Nov 22, 2021, 12:38 AM
Nov 2021

gotten the House in 2018 without the Moderates in Swing Districts campaigning on Health Care.. and flipping red seats to Blue.

Yeah, some of the Mods voted against Nancy and I bet Nancy knows why. In the end there were enough votes from All the coalitions to vote Nancy back in as Madame Speaker of the House.


Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
20. Simple truth. As for Nancy, ambitious conservative blue dogs
Mon Nov 22, 2021, 09:57 AM
Nov 2021

tagged #FiveWhiteMen lead the way, helping elect candidates who promised them to vote against Pelosi. I'd love to know what else Nancy knows. They failed, of course. And also got their moderate-conservative asses handed to them when two of them tried to run for the Democratic nomination.

Then of course the far left freshmen who claimed they'd promised their constituents to oust the Republican's most ferocious opponent in congress. Uhuh. Congressional observers now occasionally refer to them as the sabotage squad, only when something sparks it of course.

"In any other country, Joe Biden and I would not be in the same party, but in America we are."

Rep. Ocasio-Cortez, to NY Magazine during the 2020 primaries.

Since her current party, like Biden and Pelosi, is committed to liberal progressive principles and ideals, presumably it'd be socialist. Which explains her calls to grievance and disaffection at a time of great achievement, or especially. If the Biden Plan's social infrastructure bills were twice as big as they are, 25 times, they wouldn't be socialist and thus tragically inadequate. If she were in another party she could say so.

BradAllison

(1,879 posts)
22. Because the only guy that matters is Joe Manchin
Mon Nov 22, 2021, 11:45 AM
Nov 2021

And Joe thinks too many poor people are entitled. The question is who agrees with him? Post here if you've got the guts!!!!

If people here would just admit he's a no good greedy sonofabitch, they wouldn't come off so disingenuous that they seem to agree?.

People here don't like to hear it, but it's the truth.

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