I have a freind who's

[I_UndergroundPanther]

All upset because a 800 or so pound statue of Thomas Jefferson has been taken down in new york.

Is this bullshit?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

1. Well, it depends on what you think about having statues of slavers standing in city hall.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

2. I myself see no problem with it

Being removed.

My friend idolizes him says he paid his slaves a wage and the slave woman he supposedly was in love with sired his kids.

I think her idolizing him has blinded her to his actual legacy.


She called me all hysterical about it.

She needs to learn a lot more about thomas jefferson and recognize he's been whitewashed.

[Sneederbunk]

3. Jackhammers for Mt. Rushmore?

[I_UndergroundPanther]

8. Add some

Native American heroes and black heroes to it that did good to this country and it would be better.

[brush]

10. Now you're talking.

[Sneederbunk]

14. Be careful mixing Native Americans and Blacks

Some Native Americans owned black slaves and some Blacks (Buffalo Soldiers) participated in the genocide of Native Americans. Awkward.

[Sanity Claws]

4. Tell him about the Teddy Roosevelt statue in front of the Museum of Natural History

and watch him get more upset. https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/21/cnn10/roosevelt-statue-new-york-moved-north-dakota/index.html

[I_UndergroundPanther]

5. I hung up on her

She said 2 things that really pissed me off it was so disgusting.

First of all shes in denial about how more black people are likely to get shot by cops. The next thing is she says black on black shootings is it wrong ,I said yes,

White on white shootings are they wrong
I said yes.

I tried to tell her black people are more likely to get shot than white people are.

She denied this fact.
I told her dont you think cops should be made to have better standards than joe Q public does
Because of thier position of power?

She said no.

She quickly tried to claim citizens had the same power as cops have.


I told her the south lost the civil war and need to grow up and accept defeat. It happened hundreds of years ago.


Then she told me black people need to get over slavery because it was hundreds of years ago.

Thats when I said ugh. I give up and hung up on her.

She's repeating white racist shit.

Disgusting. Thought she was a better person than that.

[brush]

11. I don't know if that friendship is worth saving. She sounds extremely uninformed...

about so many issues like the nation's history, race relations, attitudes towards Black people, and about Jefferson's hypocrisy.

[brush]

12. Thanks for posting. I viewed that statue on your link and my jaw dropped.

It's pure white supremacy. The nation's racial attitudes were so fucked up back then...not that we've gotten rid of white supremacy now but at least it's not so in our face in public art as it was back then.

I will never get the need to feel superior to other humans. We're all of the same species and so-called "racial characteristics" are just adaptations to climate, nothing more.

[Woodswalker]

6. Right wingnuts

Wouldn't know what to do with themselves if it weren't for the phoney rage they spew

[I_UndergroundPanther]

7. She believes crap on utube

And apparently has no critical thinking skills
And is a fucking racist.

Not answering any of her calls from now on.

[Claustrum]

9. LOL... I bet they didn't even know the statue was there if it is not being taken down n/t

[melm00se]

13. Jefferson on slavery

Jefferson was a complex and contradictory man when it came to slavery.

Yes, he owned slaves.
Yes, he had children with one of his slaves.
Yes, his father-in-law was a slaver.
Yes, he made off the backs of his slaves

BUT

- He also considered slavery was a “moral depravity” and “hideous blot”.
Sources here and here
- Slavery offended his enlightenment senses (source here)
- he drafted laws outlawing the importation of slaves here and here
- He signed the Act Prohibiting Importation of Slaves the second the Constitution allowed for it (signed 1807 and took effect January 1, 1808 to avoid issues with Article 1, Section 9, Clause 1).
- He drafted a passage in relation to slavery (but it was struck during the debate on the Declaration). Here is what he wrote:

He has waged cruel war against human nature itself, violating its most sacred rights of life and liberty in the persons of a distant people who never offended him, captivating & carrying them into slavery in another hemisphere or to incur miserable death in their transportation thither. This piratical warfare, the opprobrium of infidel powers, is the warfare of the Christian King of Great Britain. Determined to keep open a market where Men should be bought & sold, he has prostituted his negative for suppressing every legislative attempt to prohibit or restrain this execrable commerce. And that this assemblage of horrors might want no fact of distinguished die, he is now exciting those very people to rise in arms among us, and to purchase that liberty of which he has deprived them, by murdering the people on whom he has obtruded them: thus paying off former crimes committed again the Liberties of one people, with crimes which he urges them to commit against the lives of another.

Jefferson was a man of his time with monumentos aspirations for Man.

[brush]

15. In other words he was blatant hypocrite. He couldn't force himself to live up to his own belief.

As for him being a man of his times, there were many other men of his time who had other attitudes.

Let's be real and cut the whitewashing.

[melm00se]

17. You mean

New Englanders like Adams et al?

Many of them made their fortunes in being part of the 3 legged trade:

Molasses ==> Rum ==> Slaves.

[brush]

20. Many were in that category. Sure, but a man of such high-flown ideas as Jefferson....

living in direct contradiction to them is quite disappointing.

[Tomconroy]

16. Jefferson was the co-founder of the Democratic Party. He founded

Last edited Wed Nov 24, 2021, 01:13 AM - Edit history (1)

It with James Madison when they took a sailing voyage up the Hudson River searching for butterflies.
The statue is a plaster replica of the original bronze statue that is on display in the nation's Capitol. The copy will be on display in the lobby of the New York Historical Society.
Somehow I think Jefferson's fame will outlast that of the nitwits who decided to do this.

[Klaralven]

18. It was intended to honor Jefferson's commitment to religious freedom.

The statue was donated to the city in 1834. It was commissioned by a U.S. Navy commodore to honor Jefferson’s commitment to religious freedom.

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2021/11/22/thomas-jefferson-statue-removed-from-new-york-city-council-chamber/

[Monohull]

19. Removing statues and monuments is ridiculous.

The solution is more statues and monuments of those that countered and changed the horrible ways of the past.

Those who erase history are doomed to repeat it.

[BumRushDaShow]

21. No one is "erasing" this slave owner

He was President and will forever be part of American history. The statue, an "object", is being moved elsewhere. A statue of mayors of NYC would make more sense in a NYC City Hall.