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Tanuki

(14,924 posts)
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 04:58 PM Nov 2021

The risks of homeschooling

https://www.harvardmagazine.com/2020/05/right-now-risks-homeschooling

"A RAPIDLY INCREASING number of American families are opting out of sending their children to school, choosing instead to educate them at home. Homeschooled kids now account for roughly 3 percent to 4 percent of school-age children in the United States, a number equivalent to those attending charter schools, and larger than the number currently in parochial schools.

Yet Elizabeth Bartholet, Wasserstein public interest professor of law and faculty director of the Law School’s Child Advocacy Program, sees risks for children—and society—in homeschooling, and recommends a presumptive ban on the practice. Homeschooling, she says, not only violates children’s right to a “meaningful education” and their right to be protected from potential child abuse, but may keep them from contributing positively to a democratic society.

“We have an essentially unregulated regime in the area of homeschooling,” Bartholet asserts. All 50 states have laws that make education compulsory, and state constitutions ensure a right to education, “but if you look at the legal regime governing homeschooling, there are very few requirements that parents do anything.” Even apparent requirements such as submitting curricula, or providing evidence that teaching and learning are taking place, she says, aren’t necessarily enforced. Only about a dozen states have rules about the level of education needed by parents who homeschool, she adds. “That means, effectively, that people can homeschool who’ve never gone to school themselves, who don’t read or write themselves.” In another handful of states, parents are not required to register their children as homeschooled; they can simply keep their kids at home.

This practice, Bartholet says, can isolate children. She argues that one benefit of sending children to school at age four or five is that teachers are “mandated reporters,” required to alert authorities to evidence of child abuse or neglect. “Teachers and other school personnel constitute the largest percentage of people who report to Child Protective Services,” she explains, whereas not one of the 50 states requires that homeschooling parents be checked for prior reports of child abuse. Even those convicted of child abuse, she adds, could “still just decide, ‘I’m going to take my kids out of school and keep them at home.’”...(more)

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The risks of homeschooling (Original Post) Tanuki Nov 2021 OP
An acquaintance of ours Turbineguy Nov 2021 #1
I worked in a museum once.. luvs2sing Nov 2021 #2
Homeschool Busterscruggs Nov 2021 #3
Homeschooled or not, are you saying that students who are advanced should not be able Celerity Nov 2021 #18
Those students would Busterscruggs Nov 2021 #22
That will never happen en masse, and for that I am grateful. You have no right to yoke Celerity Nov 2021 #34
my kids are not your kid's teachers. or some kind of leavening for the masses. mopinko Nov 2021 #53
And montessori Dorian Gray Nov 2021 #54
and here's where i step into the rly hot water. mopinko Nov 2021 #56
I love Montessori Dorian Gray Nov 2021 #70
probably the best school ever- mopinko Nov 2021 #71
Dewey and Montessori Dorian Gray Nov 2021 #72
"Bring their intelligence to the lower class"? Act_of_Reparation Nov 2021 #78
The problem with putting kids ahead is the age really matters...I think there should be courses that Demsrule86 Nov 2021 #51
Oh, I agree on homeschooling. Not at all a proponent, especially the US RW religion-driven model. Celerity Nov 2021 #55
It is a horror...and it creates adults who are not ready for the 21st century and will not do well Demsrule86 Nov 2021 #67
Unless the home institution has a teacher with a background in elementary education no_hypocrisy Nov 2021 #4
Not true Shrek Nov 2021 #6
Who taught him and what were his/her/credentials? no_hypocrisy Nov 2021 #10
My wife did most of the work Shrek Nov 2021 #49
From where? paleotn Nov 2021 #19
University of Kansas n/t Shrek Nov 2021 #48
That's wonderful. paleotn Nov 2021 #61
+1000 paleotn Nov 2021 #21
The public school teacher's main problem is coping with a couple dozen students Klaralven Nov 2021 #24
Not to argue but what does your post have to do with the other #21? JanMichael Nov 2021 #27
A bachelor's degree is not needed to teach small numbers of good students elementary school Klaralven Nov 2021 #31
not necessarily, one of my sons went to kindergarten already reading at a second grade level. demigoddess Nov 2021 #35
People arren't surprised when the winner of the national Spelling Bee turns out to be homeschooled.. A HERETIC I AM Nov 2021 #5
"...idiots teaching the ignorant to become morons." phylny Nov 2021 #30
The last research I saw on this was from the late '90s. Igel Nov 2021 #36
My brother and his wife homeschooled their 3 boys through the Elementary years. A HERETIC I AM Nov 2021 #40
Neither want students to think for themselves treestar Nov 2021 #74
A wide variety of forms of home schooling zipplewrath Nov 2021 #7
Should not be allowed, period relayerbob Nov 2021 #8
Sorry Bob. You are simply uninformed about every aspect of vanlassie Nov 2021 #13
My uncle smoked 3 packs a day and lived to be 98 jcgoldie Nov 2021 #38
Especially the socialization KT2000 Nov 2021 #15
It's important to know early on that you are at the bottom of the pecking order Klaralven Nov 2021 #25
I don't understand KT2000 Nov 2021 #42
Probably that school socialization is bad treestar Nov 2021 #76
A sibling of mine was a "home fooler" due to drugs. JanMichael Nov 2021 #29
True, we would not let parents self-doctor treestar Nov 2021 #75
My grandnephew was homeschooled for a few of his elementary grades Klaralven Nov 2021 #9
I have known a few people who were homeschooled and were way ahead of where they would have been milestogo Nov 2021 #11
We home schooled our daughter ... NQAS Nov 2021 #12
Not necessarily a fan of home schooling, TNNurse Nov 2021 #14
I quit wondering years ago onethatcares Nov 2021 #16
K and R x 1000000 BadgerMom Nov 2021 #17
Really depends on the home. Xolodno Nov 2021 #20
My husbands nephews wife is a product of homeschooling kimbutgar Nov 2021 #23
Let me count the ways I disapprove of the whole idea of homeschooling... Hekate Nov 2021 #26
I knew a couple who home schooled their three kids. shrike3 Nov 2021 #28
i hate to tell y'all this, but public schools destroy a lot of kids. not just fail them, destroy. mopinko Nov 2021 #32
I knew a couple who homeschooled three kids. shrike3 Nov 2021 #39
and i can rattle off a dozen kids in my hood who are in prison. mopinko Nov 2021 #50
My cousin is part of a Quiverful religious cult-like group JCMach1 Nov 2021 #33
Is this DU?!? jcgoldie Nov 2021 #37
That's a lot of words with no evidence that you have vanlassie Nov 2021 #43
passing knowledge of homeschooling? jcgoldie Nov 2021 #46
i want the public schools to have all the resources they need. but they dont deserve a monopoly. mopinko Nov 2021 #52
You don't make schools better by keeping your kids at home jcgoldie Nov 2021 #58
you dont know what you are talking about. mopinko Nov 2021 #59
More right wing bullshit jcgoldie Nov 2021 #62
well, i can tell you how it worked here, but you will stick to your dogma. mopinko Nov 2021 #64
I was homeschooled vercetti2021 Nov 2021 #41
too many parents are receiving misinformation about the safety and efficacy of public schooling cadoman Nov 2021 #44
I know more about what's good for my children Zeitghost Nov 2021 #69
Translation: We academics know better than parents what's best for their children Ex Lurker Nov 2021 #45
Parents know better than people educated about every subject jcgoldie Nov 2021 #47
Kids do need to know other adults treestar Nov 2021 #79
They also need to get to know other kids jcgoldie Nov 2021 #80
I've always felt the real reason for homeschooling hate... LiberatedUSA Nov 2021 #57
I think parents should be free to choose to home school their kids. Wingus Dingus Nov 2021 #60
well, in that the school model was to train factory workers, no it doesnt matter anymore. mopinko Nov 2021 #65
School was such a big part of my life, and shaped me into who I am today, for Wingus Dingus Nov 2021 #66
you're making a huge assumption. sitting at the table- mopinko Nov 2021 #68
My kids were always home schooled and they're fine Laurelin Nov 2021 #63
I have friends (lefties) who are homeschooling, Raine Nov 2021 #73
My stepdaughter home-schooled her four children throughout the elementary years. Aristus Nov 2021 #77
With the options now, I know my mother wouldn't have "homeschooled" me. moriah Nov 2021 #81

Turbineguy

(37,383 posts)
1. An acquaintance of ours
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 05:06 PM
Nov 2021

homeschooled their son. He has a tough time keeping a bottom-of-the-heap job. He would have had an advantage, if only Sarah Palin had become president......

luvs2sing

(2,220 posts)
2. I worked in a museum once..
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 05:09 PM
Nov 2021

where we had homeschooled high school students as “interns” every now and then. They were the most poorly adapted kids I’ve ever known.

 

Busterscruggs

(448 posts)
3. Homeschool
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 05:10 PM
Nov 2021

Really hurts the rest of the school system because with every child removed from public, there is funding needed by the teachers, the unions and the school to function properly that is taken away. Also, homeschooled children are at a distinct unfair advantage over public when they enter college or the workplace since both regard homeschooled children to a greater regard than public. I had to go to a local university to have my identity verified for a new employer. The ladies behind the counter were clearly annoyed that a homeschooled freshman was testing out of all of her prerequisite classes. She shouldn't be allowed to do that and take the required classes.

Celerity

(43,624 posts)
18. Homeschooled or not, are you saying that students who are advanced should not be able
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 07:55 PM
Nov 2021

to test out of lower level classes??

Why would you ever want to hold back advanced students?

Also, your arguments seem to also be be applicable as to being against (talking primary and secondary schools now) private (which are called public schools in the UK, where I went to some) schools, as many (not all) give a superior education to many (again, not all, of course) public (called state schools in the UK) ones.

If I am misunderstanding what you are saying, then I apologise in advance.

 

Busterscruggs

(448 posts)
22. Those students would
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 08:40 PM
Nov 2021

Bring their intelligence to the lower class. Spread the wealth if you will. Private schools are a whole other topic but I feel that all education should be in the public realm so that opportunity is available across the board. Why should the wealthy be allowed the better teachers and the rest left with the average in public?

Celerity

(43,624 posts)
34. That will never happen en masse, and for that I am grateful. You have no right to yoke
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 11:08 PM
Nov 2021

academically gifted children with that burden of responsibility. They are not some sort of experimental plough horses.

As for private schools, many less well-off students qualify for financial aid and/or academic scholarships.

Finally

Why should the wealthy be allowed the better teachers and the rest left with the average in public?


This is far from just in the private school realm, especially in the US. Many US public school systems would be negatively impacted as well.

If you want to quickly flush the entire Democratic party down the electoral loo (from local, to regional, to state, all the way up to federal levels), then by all means, advocate for seizure of all school-related funding revenues and mandate that they be equally distributed, regardless of how much taxes (especially local) families pump in.

mopinko

(70,274 posts)
53. my kids are not your kid's teachers. or some kind of leavening for the masses.
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 08:56 AM
Nov 2021

but you know where that model works well? homeschool.

mopinko

(70,274 posts)
56. and here's where i step into the rly hot water.
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 10:25 AM
Nov 2021

in IL, we dont allow the big for-profit outfits in, but we have a lot of charter schools.
there are a couple montessoris, i think. and a lot of other great concepts. the teachers union has a charter for a leadership school for girls. there are several arts based schools. the university of chicago runs several neighborhood schools. there's a k-12 science and math acadamy around the corner form me that is on the u.s. news list of the best high schools in the country. there's even a school called namaste.

this discussion is too often on a theoretical level that ignores the failings of the common schools.
people get bent w me about this. but the suicide rate of teenagers is part of this discussion and i will not ignore it.

Dorian Gray

(13,514 posts)
70. I love Montessori
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 05:12 PM
Nov 2021

But that’s a discussion for another thread perhaps. But I love reading other peoples perspectives about education/charters/alternative schools, so thanks for sharing.

mopinko

(70,274 posts)
71. probably the best school ever-
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 05:28 PM
Nov 2021

the lab school at the u of chicago. the homeschoolers i knew read dewey, who founded the u.
the lab school is dewey in practice. the obama girls went there. the graduates are some of the best and brightest in the city.
at the core is the idea that children learn best when they follow their curiosity. sooner or later, they learn all those things that we test them on. but in the meantime, they learn how to learn.

waldorf is in that mold as well.

Dorian Gray

(13,514 posts)
72. Dewey and Montessori
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 10:11 PM
Nov 2021

have some ideas in common, but Montessori is more regimented than schools in that follow Dewey's pedagogy. Or Waldorf, even.

A lot of public schools in Brooklyn are taking some of the more progressive educational ideas and implementing them in their schools, which I'm happy to see. Would love to see more uniformity in schools rather than in a classroom here or there, though.

For my daughter, the mixed age classroom has been an amazing gift.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
78. "Bring their intelligence to the lower class"?
Mon Nov 29, 2021, 12:12 PM
Nov 2021

Dude, don't get me wrong. I'm all for an egalitarian education system. But that's some twisted-ass logic there.

Demsrule86

(68,734 posts)
51. The problem with putting kids ahead is the age really matters...I think there should be courses that
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 08:49 AM
Nov 2021

accommodate these kids at all grade levels. Also, the way I taught is everyone got the same curriculum (unless there was some disability). Grades were based on the level of mastery...there was one standard for a 'C' another for an 'A'...you would be surprised how well-motivated students who had to work harder for one reason or another than others in the class excelled in this sort of environment. And the kids who had a great background or were gifted could also receive appropriate instruction...and of course, it allowed for remedial work.

I had a mentor in my first teaching job ( I had been working in research and selling pharmaceuticals before teaching for a number of years) who taught me this method and it worked beautifully. Unfortunately, schools are a one-size-fits-all right now and it simply doesn't work. The California idea to stop teaching calculus and or higher math is a perfect example. It is a very bad idea. Now, homeschooling doesn't work because past a certain level, most parents simply can't teach their kids well and many don't have the commitment.

They park the kids in front of the computer mostly. And abusive parents hide behind homeschooling. I knew a family where the mother was too lazy to drive her kids to school so she 'home schooled' them. She didn't want to meet the testing standards in Ohio so she chose a Texas curriculum that was pretty much useless as it was not accreditated. The older child couldn't even get into hair-dressing school and can't pass a GED. And Ohio got in big trouble for the corruption in the Homeschooling area...ECOT.

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/columns/2021/03/04/theodore-decker-ohio-defunct-online-charter-school-ecot-still-fighting/6876002002/

Demsrule86

(68,734 posts)
67. It is a horror...and it creates adults who are not ready for the 21st century and will not do well
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 02:35 PM
Nov 2021

in most cases...we agree for sure.

no_hypocrisy

(46,244 posts)
4. Unless the home institution has a teacher with a background in elementary education
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 05:19 PM
Nov 2021

and proficiency of all subjects including remedial reading and writing, and has all necessary teaching materials, and has learned how to THINK, homeschooling will be deficient. That child will not be able to navigate through college, provided s/he is accepted.

Shrek

(3,986 posts)
6. Not true
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 05:39 PM
Nov 2021

My son was home-schooled and has two college degrees (one in Business Administration with a concentration in IT, and the other in History).

He finished both degrees in 4.5 years and was hired immediately after graduation.

no_hypocrisy

(46,244 posts)
10. Who taught him and what were his/her/credentials?
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 06:10 PM
Nov 2021

What materials were used?

Did you follow a program?

Shrek

(3,986 posts)
49. My wife did most of the work
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 08:28 AM
Nov 2021

I helped out with math, science, and technology.

We also joined a group of other home-schoolers that met a couple of times a week for group lessons, field trips, etc.

paleotn

(17,990 posts)
61. That's wonderful.
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 11:16 AM
Nov 2021

And you guys should be congratualted. But for every kid like your son, there's a Madison Cawthorn who's grossly unprepared since they're taught little beyond bare bones basics, with a ton of religious gobbly gook. This country does a terrible job when it comes to policing home madrasas vs. home schooling, due to the idea that supposedly every parent knows what's best for their children. No, many do not and their children suffer for it.

paleotn

(17,990 posts)
21. +1000
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 08:02 PM
Nov 2021

There are very good reasons why primary and secondary school teachers are required to complete a bachelors degree + in order to teach in pubic schools. In VT, public school teachers are licensed. Home schoolers...not so much. And people wonder why we end up with home schooled morons like Madison Cawthorn.

 

Klaralven

(7,510 posts)
24. The public school teacher's main problem is coping with a couple dozen students
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 08:58 PM
Nov 2021

Teaching the curriculum to a couple of willing, well disciplined students is not so tough.

Teaching in a large classroom with many students who'd rather be doing something else, and a few students who are continually disruptive, as well as a great deal of variation in intelligence, preparedness and talents, is a very difficult job.

That and coping with teacher-teacher and administration politics.

JanMichael

(24,897 posts)
27. Not to argue but what does your post have to do with the other #21?
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 09:22 PM
Nov 2021

They were talking about credentials to teach not class size or specific school politics.

 

Klaralven

(7,510 posts)
31. A bachelor's degree is not needed to teach small numbers of good students elementary school
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 09:33 PM
Nov 2021

Mine had one year of "Normal School" beyond high school for the first few grades.

demigoddess

(6,645 posts)
35. not necessarily, one of my sons went to kindergarten already reading at a second grade level.
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 11:39 PM
Nov 2021

And he knew geography of the US when he was 3. Mostly because I read to him before bed and talked to him about his puzzle. Another son was in gifted programs but they purposely held the kids back. they would put him in average math group to make them look better than they really were. gifted kids are used in alot of ways to make the school look better. Have a ton of stories to tell.

A HERETIC I AM

(24,380 posts)
5. People arren't surprised when the winner of the national Spelling Bee turns out to be homeschooled..
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 05:20 PM
Nov 2021

but the idea is extremely popular with hardcore fundamentalist Christians, and it seems to me it becomes a case of idiots teaching the ignorant to become morons.

As the article states, there isn't even a requirement in many states that the parent even graduated High School, so how can someone so obviously unqualified possibly teach a child properly?

A significant number apparently believe the Bible is not only a history book, but a scientific text as well, and as such, are raising a generation of children not suited for much else than becoming pastors.

Igel

(35,380 posts)
36. The last research I saw on this was from the late '90s.
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 11:43 PM
Nov 2021

About half of the homeschooling parents were Xians of some sort, with that as their motivation for homeschooling. Most weren't that "fundie". They just didn't approve of the values that came with the content.

The other half were progressives, with *that* as their motivation for homeschooling. They weren't necessarily socialist. They just didn't approve of the values that came with the content.

Humorously, the researcher thought one of the groups close-minded and bigoted, the other wise and enlightened. (I'll leave it to your imagination as to which fell into which camp. This was the person behind a PhD dissertation at UCLA. Which makes me think I should check up on her career, see how she's doing these days.)

A HERETIC I AM

(24,380 posts)
40. My brother and his wife homeschooled their 3 boys through the Elementary years.
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 01:09 AM
Nov 2021

Last edited Sun Nov 28, 2021, 03:55 AM - Edit history (1)

and they are both liberal progressives, so I grant you it isn't strictly Christians.

What was interesting is my brother told me that once they were on the various national mailing lists as homeschoolers, they were inundated with creationist and other Bible based curriculum solicitations!

This was all in the 90's and my sister in law passed away about 10 years ago, but she was very well educated and had an extraordinary mind, so the boys did benefit greatly. They went to Public School from Jr. High on.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
74. Neither want students to think for themselves
Mon Nov 29, 2021, 12:01 PM
Nov 2021

They see it as indoctrination. Jesuits had a saying about that. Yet some of them will look at ideas outside the indoctrination box eventually.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
7. A wide variety of forms of home schooling
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 05:43 PM
Nov 2021

But I've spoken to college professors that claim they can quickly spot the properly home schooled children because of their superior performance. Home schooling can be done well and doesn't have to require a highly trained parent. But the state does need to monitor these children's progress. Regular testing should be required on mandatory curriculum topics. The same really should go for many of these "Charter" schools as well.

relayerbob

(6,561 posts)
8. Should not be allowed, period
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 06:08 PM
Nov 2021

VERY few parents are capable of being a teacher, and certainly not of all the disciplines requires to achieve a modern education. And complete lack of normal socialization and interaction with other kids??? Utter lunacy

vanlassie

(5,693 posts)
13. Sorry Bob. You are simply uninformed about every aspect of
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 07:26 PM
Nov 2021

correctly done homeschooling. As a lifetime member of a subculture that includes many homeschooling families, I have seen many many well adjusted kids and eventually, adults. They are welcomed into Cal Berkeley, USC, the NY Ballet, have rewarding careers, and are very nice people. They are musicians, writers, scientists. There is no way to paint them with your broad brush.

KT2000

(20,596 posts)
15. Especially the socialization
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 07:34 PM
Nov 2021

Some are disabled by their inability to socialize when their first encounters with those other than their family members happens after they are out of the homeschooling orbit.
Crazy dysfunctional families will homeschool to hide their problems. There is then no escape for the child.

KT2000

(20,596 posts)
42. I don't understand
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 02:01 AM
Nov 2021

The first day of school for kids, they look around to see where they fit in. No one has to tell them.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
76. Probably that school socialization is bad
Mon Nov 29, 2021, 12:05 PM
Nov 2021

because it teaches you to know your place in the "corporate system." There is a sentiment out there that public education is meant to teach the students to be good followers of the capitalist system.

JanMichael

(24,897 posts)
29. A sibling of mine was a "home fooler" due to drugs.
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 09:26 PM
Nov 2021

Took 4 years for Florida to figure that out. Damage done though.

 

Klaralven

(7,510 posts)
9. My grandnephew was homeschooled for a few of his elementary grades
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 06:08 PM
Nov 2021

It was under the Pennsylvania home schooling program and it seemed well organized. His mother was working from home, and she had the flexibility to monitor his progress, help him if roadblocked, and generally keep him on track.

Subsequently he did well in public high school.

He just got his associates degree and landed a good job in IT.

milestogo

(16,829 posts)
11. I have known a few people who were homeschooled and were way ahead of where they would have been
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 06:21 PM
Nov 2021

if they have attended public school. Academically, if not socially.

NQAS

(10,749 posts)
12. We home schooled our daughter ...
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 06:54 PM
Nov 2021

For two years - middle school. She got into and graduated from an Ivy League school.

I don’t think we can take credit, though. She’s always been a self-starter and driven.

I can see their points, though.

TNNurse

(6,929 posts)
14. Not necessarily a fan of home schooling,
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 07:30 PM
Nov 2021

but I do know of great successes. I think they are some really terrible failures as well.

onethatcares

(16,195 posts)
16. I quit wondering years ago
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 07:38 PM
Nov 2021

where this dumbness, ignorance, and lack of skill came from.

I quit when I realized there isn't any changing or educating the home school teachers.

That brings us to today in the unUnited States of America.

BadgerMom

(2,771 posts)
17. K and R x 1000000
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 07:47 PM
Nov 2021

I’m a retired middle school language arts teacher. My grandson was homeschooled from grade 7 on. He has a high school diploma but is almost illiterate. His mom, my stepdaughter and his home schooler, did not have a BA at the time. She and my son-in-law get their opinions from Fox and the Mormon church. We must stop the attempts of the right to break the back of public education.

Xolodno

(6,406 posts)
20. Really depends on the home.
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 07:59 PM
Nov 2021

If the parents are pouring into their child's education, it could be a good thing. Not just doing the basic, but enhancing by taking them to museums, etc. It becomes not a 7 am to 3 pm job, but 24/7.

Flip side, I have also seen too many use home school to deny education because of their "religious values". And often, they get taught only the basics, if that. Actually know of one couple that is dodging CPS because their children are not being taught enough. Where they are at now? No clue, and haven't seen them in years.

kimbutgar

(21,229 posts)
23. My husbands nephews wife is a product of homeschooling
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 08:43 PM
Nov 2021

She was raised in an authoritarian household where Dad was the father of he who must be obeyed. Her husband my husband’s nephew also had the same type of father. They are raising both their boys 5 and 7 and she is pulling them out of charter school( grrrrrr) for homeschooling. I am a credentialed teacher so I gave her two teacher websites with lesson plans for Math and Science. Neither parent has ever attended college. I asked her about her kids getting socialization skills but she felt they would turn out alright with homeschooling. And ironically she doesn’t cut the boys hair and they both have long hair now.

I fear for those kids. But they live in Arizona and l live in California and I see them once a year. They are nice boys but quiet and have to obey Mom and Dad or else.

Hekate

(90,901 posts)
26. Let me count the ways I disapprove of the whole idea of homeschooling...
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 09:04 PM
Nov 2021

Actually, I’ll refrain from my enumeration, except to say public tax-funded education is foundational to a democratic and cooperative society, and if parents choose private, parochial, or home schooling they should STILL pay their taxes.


shrike3

(3,829 posts)
28. I knew a couple who home schooled their three kids.
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 09:23 PM
Nov 2021

Everything went great with the first two. Both completed school early, did well in college and launched successfully into their lives and careers.

The third became a homebody, preferring her parents' company to anybody else's, frightened of the world. Don't know what ultimately became of her.

I think it really depends on the child and the family.

mopinko

(70,274 posts)
32. i hate to tell y'all this, but public schools destroy a lot of kids. not just fail them, destroy.
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 10:28 PM
Nov 2021

i love how folks blame the ills of conservatism one the small percentage that homeschool, and ignore the damage done to kids in public schools by bullying, authoritarianism, prejudice, all manner of sicko, etc.

i homeschooled my 4 kids for 8 yrs. the 2 that spent the longest in hs- very successful. it was a bit bumpy for a while, but 1 has a phd in theoretical math. the other spent some time in college, did well, but now runs a restaurant.

the other 2- a hot mess. one attacked and bullied, and never recovered. the other bullied and treated like a freak because of her chronic illness. living on disability.

we like to think when public schools fail, they leave kids at zero. they dont.
they leave too many hanging from the ceiling fan.

shrike3

(3,829 posts)
39. I knew a couple who homeschooled three kids.
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 01:07 AM
Nov 2021

I mentioned them above. The eldest two were very high achievers. The youngest became a bit of a shut-in. Don't know what ultimately happened to her. I think homeschooling is good for some kids, not for others. Like everything else.

I live in an industrial area. I have been told by local employers that prospective candidates can barely read, can't use a ruler, can't fill out a job application. Sad.

JCMach1

(27,581 posts)
33. My cousin is part of a Quiverful religious cult-like group
Sat Nov 27, 2021, 10:36 PM
Nov 2021

And, frankly, the type of homeschooling that happens in these situations is essentially brain washing...

Forget about social contracts, the Commons, tolerance and Civic Education.

It's a recipe for Theocratic, anti-democratic fascism. Oh wait, we are there almost already...

jcgoldie

(11,656 posts)
37. Is this DU?!?
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 12:00 AM
Nov 2021

WTF is going on with this trainwreck thread? Do we not agree on some basic ideological presuppositions as Democrats? Do we not share some basic belief that government can be a tool for the betterment of society? That we can structure society through government to be more egalitarian and improve the lives of the least fortunate of its members? Do we not think that children have a right to some sort of socialization outside the home and that opportunities should be available to them outside the limited choices of their parents in a liberal democracy? That schools perform an important civic duty in teaching kids not just overt curriculum but more importantly how to deal with other people... how to appreciate concepts like diversity and multiculturalism? The basis of a liberal arts education has always been creating well balanced and rounded citizens for a democratic society... that is a controversial concept at times when juxtaposed with European educational systems which specialize at a much younger age... but now many of us are just ok with taking those choices out of the hands of students before they ever enter school? I'm having issues with the ideology displayed throughout this thread.

vanlassie

(5,693 posts)
43. That's a lot of words with no evidence that you have
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 02:50 AM
Nov 2021

even a passing knowledge of lived homeschooling. Good grief.

jcgoldie

(11,656 posts)
46. passing knowledge of homeschooling?
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 03:13 AM
Nov 2021

I'm a high school teacher. I have a passing knowledge of what public education is like. And 20 + years of dealing with 100 kids a year or so. You did not address a single point.

mopinko

(70,274 posts)
52. i want the public schools to have all the resources they need. but they dont deserve a monopoly.
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 08:51 AM
Nov 2021

and anyone who thinks govt school should be mandatory for every single kid, can fight me.
my long term homeschoolers excelled. the kids i sent to school in primary grades were badly damaged.
bad schools dont leave kids at zero. they leave them damaged and sometimes dead.

a lot of wingnut homeschoolers end up in a bad place, ignorant and unready for the world.
but ya know what? i live in chicago. and most of the ill educated people around me went to cps.
same w most of the population of cook county jail.

jcgoldie

(11,656 posts)
58. You don't make schools better by keeping your kids at home
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 10:49 AM
Nov 2021

And you don't broaden the perspective of your kids either. All these anecdotal arguments about "my kids were homeschooled and turned out great" do not address the actual argument any more than saying you know someone who smoked 2 packs a day and lived forever. Your argument is verbatim conservative argument for vouchers for the last 50 years to undercut public schools in the same way that they want to privatize the post office and everything else.

mopinko

(70,274 posts)
59. you dont know what you are talking about.
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 11:10 AM
Nov 2021

maybe you keep hearing that because you are speaking doctrine, while those of us that did is are speaking from experience.
and yes, it is an area where there is broad overlap between left and right. that ought to tell you something.

and just ftr- the s word. every homeschooler hears it from every single person. imho, what goes on in schools is anti-socialization. the stripping of individuality. the smoothing off of the edges to make all pegs fit the same hole.
i can tell you about my kids. but you can look at the stats. public schools fail children every day.
heard of the school to prison pipeline? yeah, that's real. teen suicide rates.
the advocates of govt schooling like to pretend that their failures leave kids at zero. they dont. for many it ends at the morgue.

we dont need more smooth, round pegs.

jcgoldie

(11,656 posts)
62. More right wing bullshit
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 12:42 PM
Nov 2021

There is not overlap between the left and right on the issue of public schooling. "Public schools are failing our kids" is right out of the playbook for the right as is catch phrases like "school to prison pipeline." In the extraordinarily rare cases where parents are educated and balanced enough to provide their children with comparable curriculum to what they receive in school by people who received bachelors and master's degrees in each specialized subject that they study, the kids still miss out on the more important aspect of socialization that they get in school. Shielding your kids from other types of people out of fear does not do them any favors later in life or prepare them for life in a multicultural society.

mopinko

(70,274 posts)
64. well, i can tell you how it worked here, but you will stick to your dogma.
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 01:36 PM
Nov 2021

i'll say this tho. my son, who started all this, is on the spectrum. aspbergers wasnt even a word when i looked at him and said- he is educating himself. if i feed his curiosity, answer his questions, treat him fairly, which he demanded and would not have gotten in school, the pros will outnumber the cons.
i actually have a broad education. it wasnt hard. and it worked. phd in theoretical math.
you will find that a great many of the lefty homeschoolers have neurodivergent kids.
they just.dont.fit. and they are too special to toss into the grinder.

you also assume that these kids arent around others. that's absurd. most hs kids are way more comfortable around people not their own age. almost all have social networks. ones where kids arent treated like cattle.

cadoman

(792 posts)
44. too many parents are receiving misinformation about the safety and efficacy of public schooling
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 03:02 AM
Nov 2021

There is simply no better choice for your child to receive a top notch education than your local public school. Expertly trained professional teachers. A curriculum crafted by the top experts at the DoEd. Teachers who are willing to give your kids frank and scientifically backed information on reproductive health. And most importantly a safe place for your children to avoid being mind-controlled by religious nutsos and conspiracy theorists.

Frankly, the evidence shows that home schooling, in almost all instances, borders on a form of child abuse. As more parents pull their kids out due to misinformation, it's our responsibility to crack down on rampant home schooling fervor.

A good place to start is a DoEd crafted training program that home schooling parents must pass. We have mandatory college for barbers but somehow parents can educate their kids without training and a license?

Zeitghost

(3,877 posts)
69. I know more about what's good for my children
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 03:43 PM
Nov 2021

I know more about what's good for my children than anyone, period. Treating them like little identical drones isn't right for everyone, how could it be with millions and millions of school aged children.

My kids are in public school, one we sought out specifically. But I'm not arrogant enough to say the choice I made for my children, who I raised is the right one for children I've never met.

Ex Lurker

(3,816 posts)
45. Translation: We academics know better than parents what's best for their children
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 03:05 AM
Nov 2021

It may not be what she means but it's how it comes off. Stuff like this is what gets Republicans elected. Even people who don't homeschool take umbrage at being dictated to, especially by the intelligentsia.

jcgoldie

(11,656 posts)
47. Parents know better than people educated about every subject
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 03:22 AM
Nov 2021

And kids need more of their own family and less exposure to other types of people. That is a Republican talking point. It gets Republicans elected as you said because it is the essence of conservatism

treestar

(82,383 posts)
79. Kids do need to know other adults
Mon Nov 29, 2021, 12:13 PM
Nov 2021

and learn various ways of coping with things. That's the trouble with so much of the nuclear family. You'll get your parents' neuroses and only know their way to cope. That is how it worked better in the old days when the whole village know all the kids.

jcgoldie

(11,656 posts)
80. They also need to get to know other kids
Mon Nov 29, 2021, 01:40 PM
Nov 2021

Kids of other races, ethnicities, socio-economic strata, religious backgrounds. Some school districts are obviously much more diverse than others but the more practice kids get negotiating relationships with people who are not like them in multitude of ways, the easier they will transition to adulthood and the less fear they will have of others.

I consider myself fortunate to teach in a very diverse district where kids come into contact with a lot of other types of people from the time they are kindergartners. I feel like I have an extra appreciation for those opportunities based on my own experiences. For my first 13 years teaching HS I was in a small rural district in a small town. The student body was 98% white and overwhelmingly Protestant Christian and low income. There were so many great hard working kids whose very first exposure to other types of people came when they got cast into the mixing bowl as college freshmen with a ton of academic pressure to negotiate simultaneously. Many hard working kids I saw experience culture shock and end up back in the small town atmosphere a year later with zero economic opportunities. I felt it wasn’t even fair to them.

 

LiberatedUSA

(1,666 posts)
57. I've always felt the real reason for homeschooling hate...
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 10:42 AM
Nov 2021

…was a large percentage of homeschooling is in rightwing homes, and many would prefer to put a stop to that and force those kids into public schools.

Wingus Dingus

(8,059 posts)
60. I think parents should be free to choose to home school their kids.
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 11:10 AM
Nov 2021

That said, I think it's a weird practice, unless the parents are skilled at teaching and have some good reason not to trust local public schools with their children. For example, kids that have special learning needs or have trouble with relentless bullying could benefit. But school, with other adults teaching and other children learning/interacting, prepares you for a lifetime of having to cope with situations and groups that can't be simulated at home or in "extracurricular activities". I guess you can be homeschooled and then get a work-from-home job and never really interact with other people and coworkers, except on social media or zoom--maybe that's where we're headed anyway. Maybe socialization and learning how to function and pay attention in large groups doesn't matter anymore.

Wingus Dingus

(8,059 posts)
66. School was such a big part of my life, and shaped me into who I am today, for
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 02:29 PM
Nov 2021

better or worse. So many experiences, both good and bad--so many classmates and teachers. Some very good friends growing up, kids from other backgrounds and family situations whom I never would have gotten to know without attending school (both Catholic and public). I think of that now, how a large part of my personality and my life's education came just from the EXPERIENCE of attending a building with hundreds of other kids everyday, dealing with each other, learning from each other. Navigating the expectations, personalities, and fairness/unfairness of teachers, trying to earn the grades.

My world would have been so very tiny and unfulfilling had my mom just sat me down at the dining room table or tv (or computer, nowadays) and tried to teach me herself for years on end. She's a good person but I needed to experience something bigger, something connected to society. Unthinkable now to not have all those experiences to look back on--and I haven't even addressed actual academics.

I understand there are children who have bad experiences and/or don't thrive in a school situation, but I genuinely believe that's a relatively small number of kids.

mopinko

(70,274 posts)
68. you're making a huge assumption. sitting at the table-
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 02:54 PM
Nov 2021

sitting was all but outlawed in my school. except in the car on the way to the museum or the library or...

long ago i heard albert shanker say that the most important organ for school kids inst their brains but their butts. i never forgot that.

Laurelin

(538 posts)
63. My kids were always home schooled and they're fine
Sun Nov 28, 2021, 12:56 PM
Nov 2021

I have no degree in education. I even made up my own curricula. They both did extremely well in their respective universities (summa cum laude -- straight A's actually-- with double major in liberal arts for one, magna cum laude with double degrees in science and a subsequent DVM for the other). They went to two different flagship state universities (not in Alabama) but were offered scholarships to excellent private universities that I didn't feel like paying for. Scholarships don't cover everything.

They get along well with people of all ages.

If you think they'd have been better off in a terrible Alabama public school with low graduation rates and class sizes of 50, that openly taught that women should submit to men and evolution is a myth because God created the world in 7 days, then i disagree. Of course I could have sent them to the private school that taught the same BS and was openly white supremacist but had higher graduation rates, but I chose not to do that either.

I loved my public school education. Thank you, Maryland.

Raine

(30,541 posts)
73. I have friends (lefties) who are homeschooling,
Mon Nov 29, 2021, 02:19 AM
Nov 2021

the kids are doing great. Their cousins are homeschooling with them so plenty of socializing with them. They are also learning another language (Japanese) they wouldn't be learning that in a regular school in the elementary grade/classes.

I had forgotten my Sister in Law homeschooled her son, she had to take him out of public school because he was bullied so badly. He's all grown up now and doing fine, has good job and a family of his own.

Aristus

(66,481 posts)
77. My stepdaughter home-schooled her four children throughout the elementary years.
Mon Nov 29, 2021, 12:09 PM
Nov 2021

They finally started going to public school when they hit junior high age.

But you never saw a group of four more poorly-socialized, badly-behaved, dependent, un-self-confident kids in your life.

moriah

(8,311 posts)
81. With the options now, I know my mother wouldn't have "homeschooled" me.
Mon Nov 29, 2021, 01:47 PM
Nov 2021

Yes it would have been a charter she chose, but it's our state's "Virtual Academy" -- free to any student in the state, presumably teaching to standards, and presumably teaching history/science w/ at least some accuracy and without religious bias. A bonus I would have loved -- it lets students work at their own pace, so if they are more advanced in one subject than they are in others they can move faster in it.

A lot of our barriers in the two years she officially "homeschooled" me before I went back into public school were in finding curriculum that my single-mom-with-a-job could teach/grade (even though I was pretty much teaching myself from the books) that wasn't overtly religiously biased. It was especially difficult as I was aware/old enough to be pissed off to read a history book that said the belief in "Manifest Destiny" was a good thing because it spread Christianity.

But yes, she would have LOVED the "virtual schools" that exist (though I'm more talking about programs that were designed from the start to be virtual-learning, not what most students who had to "go virtual" during this pandemic have experienced -- school districts are designed for in-person learning).

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