If I live to be 100, I will never, ever understand the conservative mindset

[CatWoman]

I've been watching You Tube videos of several segments of the Arbery murder trial.

Greg and Leigh McMichael (the father of the man who killed Ahmaud Arbery and his wife) are staunch Trump supporters.

Greg is in poor health, having had two strokes. Leigh is a cancer survivor. In 2009, McMichael and his wife filed for bankruptcy due to overwhelming medical bills from his surgeries as well as bills from his wife's cancer treatment. McMichael also suffered two heart attacks.

They didn't even own the home they lived in Satilla Shores. Their landlord testified in his defense during his bond hearing and she is letting the family live there rent free for the time being.

Yet when Trump came into office, his main priorities were the dismantling of every program Obama had set in place that greatly benefited the McMichaels' -- most notably the Affordable Health Care Act.

The one law that Trump did manage to sign into law was that big giveaway to corporations, million and billionaires.

If anything the passage of that law negatively affected the McMichaels' as it raised taxes on the middle class.

Again, I'll never understand these people.

Is the hate really worth it????

[guillaumeb]

1. Racism, and "owning the liberals" are seen as positives.

There are millions just like them. They are not rich, they will never be rich, but they can find the money to buy weapons.

And in an economic sense, they have fallen behind permanently.

But someday, they will win that big lottery prize and become millionaires.

“If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.”

LBJ.

[amb123]

12. John Dickinson from the musical "1776"

"Most men with nothing would rather protect the possibility of becoming rich than face the reality of being poor. And that is why they will follow us *singing* to the right, ever to the right, never to the left, forever to the right."

[guillaumeb]

36. Exactly. eom

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

58. As much as I love that film and

as many times as I've seen it, I never quite caught that line.

[Vinca]

2. And people like this are not just Trump "supporters." They worship the guy. How did a washed up,

bloated, orange television performer become the object of their adoration? I'll bet anything they were sending him money - as instructed - before they were paying any bills. Owning the libs can't possibly be worth losing your home, your medical care and your freedom. The old man will take his last breath in prison knowing his wife will be depending on the kindness of landlords to keep a roof over her head.

[oldsoftie]

61. Because he's the greatest con man the US has ever seen.

Madoff ran a Ponzi scheme. Totally different

[louis-t]

74. Madoff was still a con man.

I have a saying. "Bernie Madoff WISHES he was as big a con man as Trmp."

[oldsoftie]

77. But Madoff had a long time rep for bringing good returns. Why follow trump?

people gave Madoff money because they thought he was a smart investor. And he WAS at one time.
Companies give money to politicians all the time expecting a "return".
But why would so many people buy trumps BS AND send him money they'll never see again?

[louis-t]

81. Perception is reality.

He made people believe he was successful. If you are shitting in gold toilets, you must be successful, right? He told people he was a 'self-made man'. He wasn't. He told people he was a billionaire. He isn't. If your name is all over buildings and golf courses, those businesses must be making money, right? They aren't and never were. He tells you he's a 'deal-maker' and a 'great negotiator'. He is the worst anyone has ever seen. Smart people that got involved with him were opportunists, and most have his number now. Anyone left who still worships him is either really stupid or still think they have something to gain by clinging to his wreckage.

[Hortensis]

3. Know what you mean, for sure. But fwiw, conservatives have been studied

extensively from various disciplines. Psychology, and sociology, political science, anthropology, history, etc. Plenty is known.

[certainot]

17. well established that fear or need to avoid certainty more than liberals

there are other factors of course but authoritarianism is sometimes measured with the Uncertainty Avoidance Index or UAI

the sex on the wrong brain theory suggests authoritarianism is a heritable mostly 'old world' masturbation problem that basically makes the taliban, proud boys, nazis, trumpers - masturbation cults. on a simplistic level their need for certainty results from mixing impatient satisfaction-demanding impulses with parts of the brain involved in logic, problem solving, etc. thinking becomes foreplay and the brain just want to get it over with - with finality, certainty etc.

in the 'old world' civilizations humans have been selecting for higher sowb (authoritarianism as a survival advantage in times of conflict brought on by higher population densities, for instance) and to help humans simplify and judge the world in absolutes (black white, good bad) to help them reduce the fear and stress of the uncertainties represented by humans who are different. and that might be exacerbated if the 'other' is from 'new world' background where recent ancestors and cultures were more accepting of natural uncertainty, less fearful generally, etc

females generally have less sowb/fear of uncertainty so that may be why authoritarians, cons are so misogynistic....

[Backseat Driver]

55. Is this even real? How did you come upon this "theory"

I went to your link; there's even a disclaimer at the bottom of the book graphic regarding the lack of educational credentials of the author whose name when googled did not reveal a hit or summary within several pages unlike the UAI index and the general all purpose information on the Wiki...Perhaps this comment is better served under "Creative Speculation..."? with a link back to the OP. Unless your answers here would point to better citations, I'd have to declare this "book" about the theory major misinformation. I also mean no offense because that "theory" I did find fascinating, at the very least. I've known many "lefties," "southpaws," and stories about early correction of handedness.

[certainot]

56. i know its a bit shocking but why not. who can get the research grants to check it out? there's

a lot of research out there already to reinterpret.

the book is cartoon-like science fiction comedy

and the part in the koran, dictating, to warriors fantasizing about dozens of virgins waiting for them in heaven "man can only have sex with his wife and that which the right hand possesses" - how can that possibly work except to expect poor and young guys to know they have to cheat with their right hand and then it's less bad - increasing the guilt and sexual repression - and then combine that with polygamous society and you've got a bigger pool of potential authoritarian certainty-addicted warriors

[Demobrat]

4. The hate gives them a way to channel their fear,

anger, and disappointment in a way that makes them feel less impotent.

[Texaswitchy]

5. Trump was and is their great white hope.

Even if he is a Yankee con man.

[Skittles]

6. the ability to look down on others overrides common sense

it definitely seems that way to me

[Ocelot II]

7. LBJ figured it out years ago:

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

[msongs]

8. I don't like/want it so therefore you can't have it either nt

[Deuxcents]

21. Sums it up for me

[lastlib]

9. John Kenneth Galbraith (my favorite economic thinker) explained them quite well:

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”

"A liberal does the wrong thing for the right reason. A conservative does the wrong thing for no reason at all."

"Their philosphy serves to protect them from the painful job of thinking."

The man had a brilliant capacity for boiling it all down to just a few words.

[CatWoman]

13. damn that's deep

thanks

[Stuart G]

15. One word describes it all.........this is the word, "selfishness"

....Repeat:.....SELFISHNESS... is all you need.

[Hotler]

71. To me, selfishness is the cornerstone of the GOP, from there they lay down

racism and hate. We don't hang selfishness around their neck enough when we talk about them. Same with fascist.

[paleotn]

27. That he did. Perfectly explained.

[OMGWTF]

29. Seen on a bumpersticker at Yellowstone NP about 15 years ago --

Annoy a Republican; help someone.

[StClone]

33. That is so on it made me hurt then laugh.

Stated so well and clearly.

[FrankTC]

41. I Thought Adam Smith Covered This

I’m not sure why Galbraith didn’t appreciate that Adam Smith provided capitalism’s justification for selfishness a hundred years earlier: Everone’s pursuit of their own individual profit ultimately benefits the whole. This is the Invisible Hand, and why Geed Is Good. Actually my guess is that Galbraith was well aware of the Adam Smith proposition but didn’t agree with it. Maybe someone on DU can clarify.

[lastlib]

54. Galbraith taught economics at Harvard--

In his book/PBS series, The Age of Uncertainty, he did a chapter/segment on Adam Smith, mercantilism, and capitalism. Yeah, he knew Adam Smith forward and backward. He was to some extent an author of FDR's New Deal, so he knew the Great Depression's legacy of capitalism run amok, and how disastrous it was. From that viewpoint, he was pretty much a Keynesian on steroids and vitamins. His book The Affluent Society, a post-Keynesian bible of sorts, greatly influenced JFK and was a seed for his anti-poverty programs.

Hope that explains a little bit.

[malthaussen]

64. It goes back quite a while before Adam Smith.

It's a proposition that is highly influential in political theory, finding expression in the US in Federalist #10. One of the earlier expressions in English is "The Fable of the Bees," or "Private Vices, Publick Virtues" by Bernard Mandeville.

It comes not so much from a justification of greed, as an unwillingness to believe that God (or Nature) would be so cruel as a rigorous examination of the economic system would indicate. Thus, there must be some sort of "greater good" being served. Adam Smith enlarged on this idea in The Theory of Moral Sentiments, where a mechanism similar to the Hidden Hand prompts people to act morally even when it would be to their immediate advantage to be immoral.

-- Mal

[lastlib]

82. Wealth of Nations was published in 1776.

I haven't studied the subject more than superficially, so I defer to your sagacity.

[Redleg]

79. This is a over-simplification of Adam Smith

It has been a while since I have studied The Wealth of Nations. Smith uses the term "invisible hand" exactly one time in the entire work. To my recollection he doesn't say or even suggest that "greed is good." Many people might be surprised to hear that Smith had quite a few things to say about what he saw as unethical business practices, such as collusion among businesses, much of which get ignored by the people who remember Smith only for the invisible hand reference.

I saw Smith as more of a person describing how the economy works. He cautioned about the extreme division of labor leading to terrible conditions for the worker. He cautioned about landlords extracting too high of rent. He cautioned about blindly following one's self-interest without taking into account the effect on the larger society.

I close with a quote from Adam Smith from the Wealth of Nations:

"All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind."

[malthaussen]

85. An example of people distorting a message for their own purposes.

If they can take it out of context as well, so much the better.

I've spent a little time with Adam over the years, and I've come to the conclusion that he was probably appalled by his own conclusions: that what worked best to maximize economic output also worked to degrade and subjugate the workers. WN shares some ideas with The Theory of Moral Sentiments, in that Smith (and others of the same school of moral philosophy) were confronted by the thorny problem that there was really no material reason to act morally (or for the good of mankind). Since at the same time they believed in a benevolent deity (or natural force, since most of them were one stripe of Deist or another), they needed to come up with a reason why people would be motivated to act for the benefit of society, or anyway why their selfish actions would redound to the greater good. The idea of some hidden agent or the prompting of sentiment (or conscience) was very popular in the 18th century. Once the Utilitarians got hold of the idea, they could use more practical reasons to promote benevolent behavior, rather than relying on vague sentiment.

-- Mal

[Septua]

44. It's a little over my head...

..but I can't agree selfishness alone, explains the current situation. I still blame it on (some) people's refusal or inability to accept change and adapt.

[griffi94]

76. This is anecdotal, however

It has been my personal experience that if you listen to a conservative (family, friend, co-worker) long enough,
before very long their philosophy comes down to, "I work hard" and, "nobody ever gave me anything". As the adult offspring
of conservative republicans, I've never exactly understood their gripe. My parents would say that their taxes subsidize welfare (welfare to them means being lazy), but they don't really lose anything by paying taxes. They still have more than enough money.

One of my grandparents was an FDR Democrat and he summed it up rather nicely, "A republican is somebody who can't enjoy his food unless somebody else isn't getting enough to eat".

[keep_left]

10. Reminds me of the FReeper morons...

...and many other members of the Trumper posse. I remember many years ago someone posted pictures of a FReeper "conference" or something, and so many of them were in obviously very poor health, low-income, etc. But dumping on "those people" is what really gave them all a charge that evidently made it all worth it.

[Tommymac]

11. Ignorance kills.

I can almost guarantee these type folks (in general, not so much the examples)) were low achievers.

They probably have spent 60% of their waking lives glued to the TV.

Hoping they would win the lottery.

Resenting anybody who actually had gumption and paid attention to their teachers.

Hating anyone of color who had the will, strength, energy and temerity to advance in society.

They spent their lives of laziness being spoon fed everything from Gerber's to Gun's.

Perfect targets for KKK attitudes, Putin propaganda, and TFG's scams.

I have NO Sympathy for any of them.

In this case they raised and enabled a cold blooded murderer.

[dchill]

19. "...from Gerber's to Gun's." - There's a quotable!

[OMGWTF]

30. Throw in some smug Xitian righteousness and you're there.

[Tommymac]

45. Right on. nt

[SCantiGOP]

14. The only explanation is Racism

No matter how badly their lives had turned out, they could feel secure in their delusion that they were “better” than all the black and brown people they saw around them. They felt they were entitled to that superiority, and it defined their self-image.

[Beartracks]

16. Conservatives are the entitlement society they claim to despise.

And they are, most definitely, elitists.

========

[larwdem]

70. agree

I have been saying that a long time, elitists = real Americans. They hate, city people, black people, brown people, gay people,
dems, liberals, progressives, They think they are better then us.

[CatWoman]

35. Hey Strom Jr

[SCantiGOP]

52. Hey CatWoman

How ya doing?

[CatWoman]

57. *sigh*

my face has broken out in hives

[elias7]

59. That's the thesis of "the sum of us", by Heather McGhee

[dlk]

18. Fear and anger short-circuit a person's reasoning ability

Republicans have been nothing short of brilliant (in an evil way) at stoking fear and anger, which then translates into votes, even when it’s against the voter’s best interest. Afterward these same voters are reluctant to admit they were manipulated and often double down.

[KT2000]

20. McMichaels know

they are at the bottom of the ladder. The self-esteem they need is acquired through their hatred of those they consider below even them. It makes them feel better about themselves if their bigotry is held universally. They are not truly at the bottom.

[CatWoman]

32. what gets me is they acted as if they owned the neighborhood

and didn't even own the house they lived in.

[BlueJac]

22. Please don't try...

That could mess up your mind!

[Paladin]

68. +1,000,000.

Don't waste your time on these ignorant, hateful people. Spend your time and efforts on those who are deserving of it.

[Throck]

23. Would you consider watching paint dry instead?

[kimbutgar]

24. I have a right wing sister in law who is against government handouts, ACA medical care and raising

The minimum wage. She’s 63 and lives paycheck to paycheck but she votes repuke every time and believes she is successful because she pulls herself up by the bootstrap and she’s a hard worker!

[Demobrat]

42. Will she turn down social security and Medicare?

Has she saved enough living paycheck to paycheck to fund her retirement? Will she have to work until she dies there?

Something tells me this one will not be feeling so smug in a few years.

[kimbutgar]

49. She has to work until she drops dead

Never made enough to get good social security.

But gub’nit handouts for her. She does though stand to inherit some when her mother passes on.

[paleotn]

25. One thing missing from your analysis....

brown people. All of their woes, real and imagined, are due to brown people. Doesn't matter if there's zero logic behind it, that is what they believe. Trump and the GQP hates brown people, thus, they're not only Republicans, but Trump Republicans. OH!... and the libs. They hate the libs because libs love brown people. In fact, they believe we libs want to "replace" the McMichael's and others like them with brown people.... some how, some way. Not sure how that actual works, but there it is. Magat logic in a nutshell.

[OMGWTF]

26. And now they're committing mass suicide to "own the Libs"

These are not smart people. This is the Dunning-Kruger Effect in action.

[Cosmocat]

28. I have been telling people its cultural for decades

All the high fallutin talking points in the 90s were always bullshit, then 9-11 took the veneer off it.

The media circle jerk that 45 was about "economic security" was bull shit, as was referring to these hill fucks as "privileged."

They could give a shit about their well being, they let them selves be skull fucked by right wing media their entire lives and know only one thing, the evil liberal boogyman is the sum total of all that is wrong in the world, they are the only true christians and anything is justified in the holy war against liberals

[Ron Green]

31. Read George Lakoff.

He explains a bunch of it.

[Rhiannon12866]

34. They listened to what he said rather than watching what he did.

That has to be true of anyone who still supports TFG, he did nothing to benefit the people, he just stoked up resentments and anger.

[CatWoman]

37. all the while lining his pockets

[Rhiannon12866]

39. That's the only reason he "ran," all his "business" deals failed and he needed money

He never wanted or intended to do the job - and he didn't - he was only after the campaign contributions. And now he says he's running again just to stay out of jail, he figures he can just "pardon himself. "

[Kablooie]

38. Absolutely it's worth it.

Their hatred makes them feel superior to those they hate.
It's the only thing in their life that gives them a little self respect.

They would rather glory in hatred than pay their bills or feed their children.

[traitorsgalore]

50. Exactly right, conservaterds have pathologically low self-esteem

They're mentally ill, that's why people don't understand it.

[Johonny]

40. Generally shown "conservatives" are about group think

It's more important to feel like they belong to a group than any policy. You could argue they're a cult. Most belong to more than one exclusive group; born again, proud boys etc . . . What's important to conservatives is that they cross all the Ts in being part of the group. Policy comes a long distant second. This is why they're such suckers for the conservative's brand. It tells them what to watch, what to listen to, who is "good", what to wear . . .

[Solly Mack]

43. You and me both.

I know what they think and I know all the reasons why they think that way but I'll never truly understand it. It simply does not make sense to me.

They take a simple 2+2 and turn it into a negative because acknowledging the answer as 4 means they lose something.

And that's just mind boggling. Nothing about them makes sense. None of their reasons why make sense.

[Buckeyeblue]

46. The party of No

No equality
No Safety Net
No Science

[DFW]

63. That has aptly described them for over a decade. There's no business like NO business.

If Ethel Merman were still alive, she would have put it this way:

[JI7]

47. They blame minorities for their shitty conditions in life

[In It to Win It]

48. I don't understand what they want and why they want it.

Most days, I'm not in the mood to discuss politics so I don't engage but when I'm in the mood, I'm ready to dismantle any ridiculous conservative argument that's presented to me... and I've heard some stupid shit.

[Polybius]

51. Abortion, God, guns, and gays

Those are the only issues the right-wing truly cares about. They will vote against any politician who disagrees with them on these four issues.

[hunter]

53. It's the kind of stupidity that harms one's own self as well as others.

From Carlo M. Cipolla's five basic laws of stupidity:

1.Always and inevitably, everyone underestimates the number of stupid individuals in circulation.

2. The probability that a certain person (will) be stupid is independent of any other characteristic of that person.

3. A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses.

4. Non-stupid people always underestimate the damaging power of stupid individuals. In particular, non-stupid people constantly forget that at all times and places, and under any circumstances, to deal and/or associate with stupid people always turns out to be a costly mistake.

5. A stupid person is the most dangerous type of person.

True bandits are actually quite rare.

Steve Jobs was a bandit. He's dead.

Many stupid people consider themselves bandits, believing themselves masters of getting away with stuff.

Trump is the all time hero of stupid people because he fucked Stormy Daniels for 13 seconds.

No actual porn star hero ever got away with that.

I'm sure there were many times the former first lady fantasized about 13 second fucks. Let's get this over with.

[randr]

60. The all see themselves as "victims"

All their energy is spent supporting and perpetrating their "victim-hood"

[secondwind]

62. Three letters: G O D

HE is their excuse for doing everything they do.......... and they are not apologetic about it.

[twodogsbarking]

65. "Liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."

Lenny Bruce.

[malthaussen]

66. Thread is full of many differing explanations...

... none of which is likely to result in the understanding you crave.

I'll add my own two cents: imagine, if you will, a person convinced he is being deprived of what he deserves by machinations and powers beyond his ken. Any proposed change is then suspicious, as it will be believed to be yet another underhanded plot to deprive him of even more. He knows only one thing: that the liberals are the ones stealing from him. They steal his money, his dignity, and his sense of self-worth. Therefore, any triumph over them is to be celebrated: "they" haven't "gotten away with it" this time. (remember George Zimmerman saying "They always get away with it" when he was chasing down Trayvon Martin?) You can see this mindset in the anti-vaxxers, who are convinced that the vaccine is some kind of "plot" which they are much too clever to fall for. But if you expect a coherent explanation of the "plot," you'll be disappointed.

-- Mal

[Farmer-Rick]

75. This is the best explanation so far.

It puts it in perspective of the stupid person.

Also their resentment is constantly stoked by propaganda that directs them to the wrong targets.

[TigressDem]

67. It's the koolaid. THEY are why rich people can't save you. It's their fault.

We need all that extra money to run charities.

Also in some families where the programming is ongoing it's like trying to unteach a cat not to react to a laser light. so much of what they think and believe is instinct now.

My Son's in-laws are from Southern roots. His FIL was a good union guy until Reagan busted his union. Even though because of the union and having to work in a second field he is making MORE in retirement, somehow that's the DEMS fault. That he had to leave job as airplane mechanic.

IF you can blame someone, you aren't looking at your own stuff.

[Act_of_Reparation]

69. It's astonishingly simple, really.

"I am worthless as an individual so I live vicariously through my associations, however tentative, and whatever petulant displays of dominance I can eke out on the easy targets I encounter"

The conservative in a nutshell.

[world wide wally]

72. Because it is easier to live in a small mind than a larger one.

Fewer questions to answer and fewer obligations to other people. If they can just block out these challenges, their lives become simpler. After all, quality of life is just a matter of opinion.

[sop]

73. Never underestimate the power of propaganda: "Information, especially of a biased or misleading

nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view." People like the McMichaels, constantly bombarded with unrelenting rightwing propaganda, tend to believe whatever they're told.

It's not something rational, it cannot be explained or understood. Instead of trying to understand why people believe the right's propaganda, we should expose the objectives of those who disseminate the propaganda.

It's always about consolidation of power, using the age-old strategy of "divide and conquer." In recent years it's been people like Rupert Murdoch, a billionaire media owner paying millionaire broadcasters to convince middle and working class viewers to blame the poor and minorities for all their problems.

[oldsoftie]

78. Thinking the 75M who voted for trump are ALL "conservatives" is a mistake.

I see it here all the time; lumping them all in one bag; racists, misogynists, etc. People on DU are informed on politics 12 months out of the year. The voters who decide elections dont pay much attention to it. But they DO pay attention to gas & food prices.
And dont forget that a number of Trump voters were also Obama voters.

[cstanleytech]

80. The Republican Conservative mindset is like concrete.

Its thick with excellent stopping power towards things like compassion, empathy and generosity but its very porous and willing to let things seep through without blinking an eye like corruption, racism, hypocrisy, cronyism as well a treason but only when its a Republican caught doing it.
If its a Democrat that gets caught though it then becomes suddenly very thick and develops excellent stopping power.

[11 Bravo]

83. That just means you're sane, CW.

[moondust]

84. Selfish little despots full of hate.

Latching onto a bigger despot with big name recognition who stokes their hate apparently makes them feel like they're getting somewhere. Some Germans probably understand it.

[Lucinda]

86. GOP voters have been lied to by over 30 years by media figures like Hannity and Limbaugh

They truly believe the lies...
All the crap on the airwaves was never challenged because of the ending of the FCC Fairness Doctrine in the late 80's. So... these folks believed everything they have been told for years now. Logic told them that what they have been told must be true or people wouldnt have been allowed to say it on radio and tv.

Going back even further - Organized women's groups in the South after the Civil War actually skewed the truth about the war in printed textbooks.

There have been decades and decades of lies planted into the GOP psyche on many fronts. It's all come out in the open now.

They have been programmed.