They've identified the Oxford, MI high school shooter

[Siwsan]

Ethan Crumbley. 15 years old with claims of being bullied. And they took a whole lot of guns from his family home. My gut says this is going to be a very difficult case. Not proving he did it, but the back story.

I'll post the link from the New York Post, if you want the details.

https://nypost.com/2021/12/01/michigan-school-shooting-suspect-identified-as-ethan-crumbley

[SoCalDavidS]

1. Fucking Gun Humping Pieces Of Shit Parents

Of course, NOTHING will happen to them.

Just waiting for the trial where he can essentially claim that being bullied gave him the right to go wild with a gun his parents likely gave him.

Edit: Prosecutor is considering charges against the parents. We'll see I guess, but I'll still be shocked if they were anything serious. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[Dorian Gray]

2. It's not going to be that difficult

Gun loving murderer.

[Siwsan]

4. I hope you are right but it's that gut itch that tells me the parents will be the problem

They took a WHOLE lot of guns out of that house. And the kids social media posts seem to show he was very familiar with them.

[llmart]

9. I want to know more about the father than the kid.

"whole lot of guns"

[BlackSkimmer]

3. I'm guessing rich parents with high powered attorney.

Just a guess.

[Siwsan]

7. From looking at the house - not rich.

That can be a pretty ritzy area and this house looks pretty middle class

[Bernardo de La Paz]

11. Guns aren't cheap. "they took a whole lot of guns from his family home." House looks small. . . . nt

[Siwsan]

14. Yea, this whole thing just gives me a hinky feeling

No doubt more info will come out about the parents.

And from the photos, that kid hardly looks 15. It's going to be interesting if neighbors start speaking out. This case might reverberate for quite a while.

[maxsolomon]

20. Rittenhouse spent his Pandemic Stimulus check on his MSSA.

People have their priorities - his parents prioritized firearms, not high-quality european cookware (to pick a recent example).

[llmart]

13. That's actually lower middle class for that area.

At one time, I think Oakland County was one of the wealthiest counties in the U.S.

[Siwsan]

18. That was kind of my feeling, too

I grew up in a community that is VERY similar in size and demographics - a place where a whole lot of auto industry salaried workers and executives lived. I guess it all depends on the location of the house. We've got houses like that located within the city limits of Grand Blanc (where I grew up, just south of Flint) and they are pretty nice homes. But if they are out in the township, they might be nice but definitely far lower in value.

[gldstwmn]

22. It doesn't matter. The same contingent that helped Rittenhouse

will back him up too.

[Siwsan]

24. I don't know - this shooting wasn't overtly politically involved or motivated - that we know of

I don't think we will see a lot of compassion, understanding or sympathy from the locals or anyone else, towards this kid and his family.

They might defend the dad's right to have the guns (if they are all legal) but there's no defending this kid using a handgun to slaughter unsuspecting classmates.

[gldstwmn]

70. I hope you are right

[WarGamer]

33. not a chance.

[TexasBushwhacker]

47. Weapons could have been passed down through the family

One of my brothers has one or our grandfather's deer rifle and an itty bitty 22

[BlackSkimmer]

97. Oh, I know, I've since learned I was way off.

Basically, what they call “ white trash” which is a term I despise.

This kid looks to have had a very rough childhood. The whole thing is sickening.

[bronxiteforever]

96. Some people are so fast to post their guesses.

[dalton99a]

5. Kick

[Klaralven]

31. Nerdy lower class kid bullied by the rich kids and the jocks.

[llmart]

6. Interesting tidbit

An Instagram account bearing Crumbley’s name, which has since been deleted, had the phrase “’Now I am become Death, the destroyer of world’. See you tomorrow, Oxford” written in the biography section, according to Fox 2 Detroit.

I wonder if any of his classmates read that on social media and if they did, did they report it to anyone?

[Siwsan]

10. They are saying some kids begged their parents to let them stay home, yesterday

I come from a family that was pretty educator centric. My dad's 30+ year career was spent in education as a teacher, coach, athletic director, vice principal and principal. My late sister was a music teacher. I was a Naval "A" school instructor and my brother is a school bus driver.

This is just the scenario I now worry about affecting my brother.

[llmart]

15. I worry too.

My one and only granddaughter just started kindergarten. My daughter lives only eight miles from this school but not in Oxford. They live in a very upscale neighborhood. What sort of a world are we leaving our children?

[SheltieLover]

48. I've read many stayed home due to this murderer's soc media posts

WTF were the authorities?

[llmart]

55. Also, where were the parents of the students who said they didn't want to go to school that day?

If your child came home from school saying something like this, wouldn't you contact all sorts of people, starting with the school administrators and police?

[SheltieLover]

82. Absofuckingloutely!

[llmart]

84. Just heard on the local news that the parents met with school administrators that morning.

Apparently he had been talked to on Monday about some of his behavior. He also preplanned this massacre.

[SheltieLover]

85. Meeting the day before as well!

[llmart]

86. In listening to the prosecutor...

sounds like they're going to go after the parents too.

Love how she used the words "gun control" in talking about what comes after.

[SheltieLover]

88. I just posted link to article post

Glad gun control was mentioned & that parents will be charged!

[llmart]

89. Yes, I read your link.

I was watching WDIV and the prosecutor's press conference.

[SheltieLover]

90. Ty for sharing!

[SheltieLover]

87. Link

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216102753



Left the meeting & murdered immediately thereafter! 🤬

[Jedi Guy]

76. Unless someone tells them about it, how are they supposed to know?

It's not as if the authorities are routinely scanning through the Instagram (or whatever) accounts of 15-year-olds. If it transpires that someone did alert them and they did nothing, that's a whole other ball of wax.

[SheltieLover]

83. If students saw it, they should have reported it

[Jedi Guy]

95. I agree.

But asking "where were the authorities?" when we don't even know for sure if they were alerted doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I would hope that the students who saw it would have either alerted the authorities or, at the very least, told their parents. But I haven't seen any reporting to the effect that law enforcement was told about the threat and did nothing about it. If it turns out that's the case, seems to me there'll be lawsuits galore.

[brush]

8. How is it a difficult case? He did the killing and shooting, and is in custody.

That's not how to combat bullying.

[Siwsan]

12. Just a gut feeling about the parents - can't explain it beyond that

I hope I'm wrong and the kid just cops to what he did but I think this bullying accusation is going to make this a messy case.

[llmart]

16. I have the same feeling.

My gut feeling is that if he was bullied and his parents knew that, the father went out and bought this gun for the kid's protection.

[brush]

32. Seriously? Parent bought a gun for the kid to protect him from bullying?

Was being shot at by another kid with a gun part of the bullying?

Let's use some common sense on this. Ya don't combat bullying by shooting and killing. Period.

[llmart]

42. I have no idea if what I feel is true or not.

But if you think this is such a far-fetched notion, then you apparently haven't been paying attention to our country lately. Or do you think all fathers are like Ward Cleaver?

[brush]

75. What are you saying? What does that even mean? Some fathers are reckless...

assholes? Of course some are. Who's the one not paying attention? The killer kid still should be prosecuted. And it was just announced that charges of murder and terrorism have been bought against the killer.

[llmart]

80. I was responding to your comment "Seriously?"

I thought you were indicating that a father wouldn't go out and buy a gun for his kid. I'm on the same page as you are with regards to the bullying excuse.

[d_r]

69. At a school here

a high school girl caught with a knife in school. Her parents had told her to carry the knife for her protection.

[PTWB]

23. Bullying isn't a legal defense.

Perhaps bullying is a moral defense in the afterlife (if you believe in such as that), but not a legal one.

[brush]

25. Nah, he was caught with the gun after killing 3 and wounding many others.

No getting around that.

[Siwsan]

26. I guess we will all just have to wait and see

Hopefully it is cut and dry, and ends with justice

[brush]

38. No coddlng of killers. From the Rittenhouse case we see the results of that sentiment.

[Siwsan]

40. We will just have to see how much more information comes out.

I saw a photo of the ARMLOADS of guns they removed from that house. I've been trying to find it, again.

I'm already forming an 'armchair analyst's' idea of the family dynamics.

[brush]

44. Guns being in the house doesn't absolve the killer. It just makes it...

likely that the parents may be charged.

[Volaris]

28. It shouldn't tho...

'But other kids were mean to me in HS '

so fuckin what?; welcome to the club. It might be heartless of me, but FUCK this kid and his hurt feelings. LOTS of kids are bullied in HS, because children generally are selfish pricks. NO SYMPATHY for this fucked-in-the-head, mass murderer.

OR for his parents, who CLEARLY were not capable of guiding their child through this time in his life and giving this kid even a modicum of a Moral Compass that says 'no, little johnny, killing other humans IS WRONG just because your feelings got hurt.'.

Fuck this kid.
He can do 20 years, and STILL have a productive life in society when he gets out (meaning, he can educate himself inside, and then get a job when he gets out and pay income taxes for 30 years).

Cold? Yes. But he killed 3 people who now, wont EVER get to pay income taxes.
Or go to college. Or get to fall in love. Or get married, and make babies and be parents.
FUCK this kid AND his parents.

Rant Off.

[brush]

34. Exactamundo. Put the killer in prison where he belongs. What is with...

this coddling of killers? Has the Rittenhouse jury's sentiments invaded DU?

[Volaris]

43. Its 110% OFF TOPIC, but I'm watching season 9 of Dexter, (it's great, BTW)

And I'm looking forward to seeing how an actual lunatic, handles a kid that ALSO might be actually crazy as all fuck.

There are yeses, and there are DEFINITIVE NOs.

Understanding THE DIFFERENCE, kid, is the Very Important Key..

As an aside, Jennifer Carpenter needs an award for her performance in this..shes fucking NAILING EVERY SCENE SHES IN.

[MissB]

52. Four

Right? Four died.

[Volaris]

74. I'm not sure.. 3 dead on the scene from what I understand, and 8 more injured

If one more died in the hospital, that's New Information and thank you for keeping me informed !

[MissB]

91. Yes mid morning they announced a 17-yo had died

So very sad.

[Jedi Guy]

78. Agreed. I was viciously bullied through most of my school years.

It got better in high school, but elementary, middle school, and junior high were extremely unpleasant. It never occurred to me to get hold of a gun and go sort my bullies out, though. And this was in southern Mississippi, so guns aren't exactly hard to find in those parts. Hell, I babysat for a couple who probably had 100 guns between them, so if I'd wanted one, getting it would have been pretty trivial.

I think part of the issue is that it's very difficult to escape your bullies these days. When I was a kid, once I was home I was safe. Now bullies have all kinds of additional avenues to ply their loathsome craft thanks to the blessings of social media and ubiquitous Internet availability. A kid's only way to be safe is to basically wall themselves off from the world once they're home, which doesn't help their mental state.

But yeah, I agree that being a victim of bullying isn't a license to grab a gun and ventilate your tormenters.

[MissB]

49. Not really.

Kids that are bullied don’t usually murder 4 classmates. Not how that works at all.

He’ll be charged as an adult. From my viewpoint, that’s unfortunate because I do not believe that should be the case.

At any rate, the kid is going away for a long time. This is nothing like the Rittenhouse case.

[Sunsky]

17. Bullied

Give me a break. Being bullied does not justify murdering innocent people. So, was this the reason his dad bought the gun on Black Friday?

[Siwsan]

19. I'm trying to remember what other shooters used that excuse

And you are absolutely correct - it's no excuse. BUT the 15 year old brain is far from fully developed and we don't know what kind of family influences might be involved.

[Sunsky]

41. I don't think he will tug at the heartstrings of any juror

with that one.

[Torchlight]

46. Two months ago in Arlington, TX a school shooter used bullying as his justification.

Weird-- I was following that story pretty closely, and though only two months ago, it seems years and now I can barely remember any details of it.

[Gore1FL]

66. The Columbine killers were said to have been bullied.

Though, because they offed themselves, this obviously wasn't used as a defense.

[TheBlackAdder]

21. Bullied? Everybody gets bullied, even the jocks. Everyone has weaknesses that get to be exploited.

[RANDYWILDMAN]

29. one of the saddest comments I have ever read.

nothing justifies the shooting.

Schools need to do more to prevent bullying and THEY KNOW IT, some do, some don't for sure.

[TheBlackAdder]

30. Nothing does justify the shootings. The sad part is it was rumored and nothing done about it.

[inthewind21]

37. It just amazes me

How shocked everyone interviewed is that something like this happened. Is the event itself shocking, yes, yes it is. But can anyone seriously say that the whole country is not just waiting around for the next one. This is what happens when you put a gun, or two or twelve in EVERYONES hand. No one should be surprised at all.

[DeeNice]

27. "...seized evidence, including what appeared to be several long guns."

"Investigators searched Crumbley's home in Oxford on Tuesday evening and seized evidence, including what appeared to be several long guns. "

[link:https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/15-year-old-oxford-high-school-shooting-suspect-charged-as-adult|

[SYFROYH]

35. So young, literally and metaphorically. I grieve for the victims too but this pic makes me sad

[BeyondGeography]

39. Lemme guess, he sucked at sports and the girls didn't like him

What else is new besides families feeling entitled to arsenals of weaponry?

My 70s boyhood would probably have been a lot different with that in the mix.

[Sunsky]

45. Not a current picture

The more recent picture I saw had him sagging (pants below his butt) with a gun tuck in the waist of his pants.

[Volaris]

50. Nope, fuck that kid.

EVERYONES sophomore pic looks like that. If he had had the mental capacity (given to him by his parents), to just...BE for another 5 or 10 years, he could have had himself a quite normal life.

I'll say it again, fuck this kid, and fuck his parents.
That's all.

[MissB]

53. Yes. I wish they wouldn't try him as an adult

I hate that kids murder. His frontal lobe probably wasn’t fully developed and his parents clearly sucked at keeping him in check, though teenaged angst is a thing.

I’m not excusing him. I just view teenaged murderers in a different category as those of adult murderers. He’ll be punished regardless.

[AngryOldDem]

67. Nope.

Killed four classmates, knew what he was doing, boasted about Dad getting him a Sig Sauer.

He is the last person I feel sorry for here.

[Torchlight]

36. I kinda figured it would be either the bullying or mental illness routine used by the media

The Sentencing Project has suggested that for-profit newsworthiness is less determined by a crime's novelty or typicality than by whether it could be "scripted using popular stereotypes to instill fear and reinforce those same stereotypes, thus creating a self-fulfilling prophecy within the targeted bubbles of agreeance."

[Johnny2X2X]

51. 15 year olds and guns...

I grew up around guns, my friends all came from hunting families. I went hunting and shooting with all kinds of teenagers and I can say this confidently, 9 of 10 teenagers should not be trusted with a gun, period. We did more stupid shit with guns out in the woods than you can imagine. Gun safety goes right out the window for 90% of teenage boys the second adults aren't around. Even if they aren't going to go shoot up their school, kids are doing stupid stuff with guns when adults aren't around. Lock your guns up and only let you children use them with your supervision.

And there's a sort of amnesia that happens to parents too. Some of these friends with kids now trust their kids with guns, I remind them of the idiotic things we did with guns in the woods and they claim their kids are responsible and wouldn't do that stuff. Yeah, right.

And something too many adults aren't honest with themselves to admit is this, many of us are too emotional to be armed. I will never carry a gun, because I do not want to shoot someone over something petty. I'm honest enough with myself to know that's a possibility. Most people aren't.

I hope his parents are both charged.

[llmart]

61. Good post and absolutely true.

I've also known grown-assed men who can't be trusted with guns either. One of my brothers who never knew how to shoot a gun went with another brother and his friend hunting. The younger brother told me that the older one had too much to drink, decided he wanted to shoot a gun and hit a big boulder where the bullet ricocheted and came a little too close for comfort. All three of my brothers are drinkers, so there's that.

[uponit7771]

64. Yep, but the judge over the Rittenhouse case indicated that the laws in WI leaned towards it was ok

.... for 17yr olds carrying ar-15, fully loaded wearing body armor to walk down city streets.

To this second I'm still blown away at that boneheaded decision.

No way teenagers touch any guns unless there is an adult supervising them really really close by

[d_r]

71. You are so right

[pinkstarburst]

54. I am sickened by some of the responses here

Everyone is looking at the pictures of this kid, who YES, physically is a white, young-looking baby-faced teen, and boo-hooing over bullying, and how sorry they are for him.

I just can't even.

FOUR KIDS ARE DEAD because this individual decided to commit mass murder yesterday. The fact that he has a baby-face should not matter. The fact that he is claiming to have been bullied should not matter. If you have been bullied, you talk to the counselor, you talk to the principal, you get your parents involved, you switch schools, you homeschool. Bullying sucks. Bullying is unfair. I was bullied too. I think MOST PEOPLE were bullied by someone in high school. The answer is not mass murder and bullying is not an excuse for mass murder and to take the attention off the victims is just yucky.

[Siwsan]

56. Just taking it from a physiological direction, his brain is about 10 years shy of fully developed

Importantly, that involves the part of the brain that controls the full ability to understand consequences. I'm not excusing him. At 15, I knew killing someone, no matter how heinous they were is wrong, and I'm a sexual abuse survivor. I also didn't grow up in a house full of guns being taught who knows what about when and how it's permitted and excusable to use them.

This kid needs help. Incarceration and help. And if he has any siblings, they should be removed from that house, ASAP.

The school needs to double down on encouraging kids who feel bullied to report it and the bullies need to be held to account. It shouldn't be up to the victim to adapt to the aggressor.

[pinkstarburst]

62. So why all the threads attacking Kyle Rittenhouse

who reasonably was defending himself (though no one should have been at a riot and no one should have had guns) and why all the boo hooing over this kid who slaughtered 4 of his classmates who were just trying to sit in their math class?

From where I'm sitting, what the kid yesterday did was a whole lot worse than what the kid did in Kenosha a year ago. So I'm just finding the physical bias factor quite interesting.

[llmart]

65. Someone else mentioned that those are old pictures too.

I'm sure there are more recent pictures of him out there. Teenagers these days have all sorts of pictures of classmates on their cell phones. Why aren't we seeing a picture of him that's more current? Maybe tonight's local news will have one.

[LisaL]

79. No way the kid with ears is the same kid.

The eye color is not even the same (blue for the kid in your post and brown for the kid with glasses).

[Sunsky]

94. You may be correct

Last edited Wed Dec 1, 2021, 08:40 PM - Edit history (1)

I'll delete the post but as a mom to a 15-year-old, I don't believe he looks like the pictures the media and some here want us to see. Those pictures look like the videos I've seen on YouTube before the kid hit puberty.

Just as I've suspected, this is not the "innocent looking little Johnny" some here wanted to portray.

Link to tweet

?t=vgp2Fk72U3D9BWthnej4Fg&s=19

[Sunsky]

68. Same here

This was not a spur-of-the-moment/impulsive act. The kid planned this, if we should believe the social media page being distributed, he called himself "black death" and claimed that death was coming to Oxford. I understand brain chemistry and developmental processes. This is no excuse for mass murder. A reasonable person of his age would not take this route (bullied or not).

[Johnny2X2X]

57. Family seems normal

Mother is a Trumpster though.

https://www.reddit.com/r/OxfordShooting/comments/r67w8b/james_crumbley_correct_me_if_im_wrong/

[Siwsan]

58. I have no doubt this family will have quite a back story

Their lives are all ruined and I have zero sympathy for them.

Hopefully if there are other kids, they've been removed to a safe location.

[Johnny2X2X]

60. She wrote a blog about voting for Trump in 2016

Basically the poster child for Trump voters. Uninformed and looking for someone to blame for her own place in life.

[Siwsan]

63. It looks like the dad was pretty continuously changing employers

His FB page is still up, and reddit has quite a bit that is shining a not so flattering light on the parents.

[llmart]

73. Normal? Did you read her blog letter to trump?

She's got a filthy mouth. Apparently the father was married once before and has to pay child support. Does that mean he has other kids? He's had a stroke and can't work so she supports them on $40K a year? This was probably written in 2016. Where'd the money come for all the guns?

[d_r]

77. According to reddit

This is the mother's blog from 2016

https://justagirlgoignthroughthisworld.wordpress.com/2016/11/11/dear-mr-trump/

This is father's Facebook
https://m.facebook.com/jcrumbley

[Baked Potato]

81. That blog is the ramblings of a textbook 'mark' of a conman.

She turned all of Dump’s warts into diamonds just waiting to be picked.

[sanatanadharma]

59. A kid grew up in a culture...

This kid grew up in a culture that extols the gun, sells the gun as entertainment, promises most everyone (and in this culture some say everyone) has the right to have, keep, bear arms and shoot bullets (some in this culture argue against any limits on how many or how fast).

So, yes, it always just one troubled or angry or disillusioned or sick individual.
One troubled, angry, disillusioned, sick individual who grew up in a sick gun-culture country.

But it is never due to America's dripping gun culture! Dripping

[rockfordfile]

92. He's just another rittenhouse. A 15yr

A loser with loser parents giving him a gun.

[Torchlight]

93. A ridiculously ironic excerpt from the mom's alleged blog dated Nov. of 2016.

My parents teach at a school where their kids come from illegal immigrant parents. Most of their parents are locked up. They don’t care about learning and threaten to kill my mom for caring about their grades.