Michigan Shooter's Parents Had Been Called Into School That Morning: Sheriff

[RandySF]

The shooter who allegedly killed four students and injured seven, including a teacher, at Michigan’s Oxford High School was previously flagged by administrators for “behavior in the classroom that they felt was concerning,” Oakland County Sheriff Mike Bouchard said Wednesday.

Authorities have identified the suspect as 15-year-old sophomore Ethan Crumbley. His parents had been brought into the school the morning of the shooting for a face-to-face meeting about their son’s behavior, according to Bouchard. He would not disclose what the behavior was, and police were not informed about any potential issues prior to the tragic event.

At a separate Wednesday press conference, Oakland County prosecutor Karen McDonald told reporters that Crumbley has been charged as an adult with one count of terrorism, four counts of first-degree murder, seven counts of assault with intent to murder, and 12 counts of possession of a firearm. More charges may be added later, said McDonald.

McDonald said evidence shows Crumbley started planning the attack “well before the incident.”




https://www.thedailybeast.com/ethan-crumbley-identified-as-oxford-high-school-michigan-mass-shooter

[WhiskeyGrinder]

1. This whole thing is really heartbreaking.

[ck4829]

2. Sounding increasingly likely the parents may face some charges of their own

[Johnny2X2X]

3. Mom was a Trumpster

Here she is blogging her support in 2016.

https://justagirlgoignthroughthisworld.wordpress.com/2016/11/11/dear-mr-trump/

[Wingus Dingus]

11. Yikes. She's a mental case all on her own.

[VMA131Marine]

28. She raised a killer!

[LastDemocratInSC]

31. And she also can't spell.

Look at the URL for her blog.

[Horse with no Name]

34. She was so worried about Hillary

That she raised a mass murderer.

[dalton99a]

36. +1. "Grab Me!"

[secondwind]

39. Wow! I can't believe what I just read... lol

[Dan]

40. Wow

[Skittles]

46. that kid never had a chance

imagine being raised by someone like that

[IzzaNuDay]

48. Just curious, about the author

How was this linked back to the mom? Written by someone with a few cans short of 6-pack!

[Thomas Hurt]

4. Terrorism...what is up with that.

[brush]

8. You don't think scaring the crap out of a whole school of people is an...

act of domestic terrorism?

[Tommy Carcetti]

13. Depends if there was a greater agenda at play.

Terrorism carries that connotation to it.

[brush]

14. Oh please. The greater agenda was to shoot and kill. Mission accomplished...

or they wouldn't have charged the killer. Also see post number five.

[Tommy Carcetti]

19. Then that would seem to be a case of deranged mass murder.

Much like Sandy Hook or Parkland.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

20. The word has a definition, you (and the authorities) can't just ignore it ...

Shooting and Killing people alone doesn't make something 'terrorism'.

If they're charging him with terrorism, there must be some indication that this was meant as a political statement of some sort.

That's the 'greater agenda' that's required to meet the definition of the word.

[ck4829]

25. It's a word that went from self-described label to something you apparently need government

permission to use to label someone else.

The laws of space and time aren't going to be played like with putty if we say "terrorism" for a range of things, civilization is not going to collapse.

Really, if you want to get down to the nitty gritty, it's a social construct full of psychological, social, and political factors that provide heavy influence into who and what is or is not a terrorist attack (Which is equally important).

This is shown in kind of like how the government has to be dragged kicking and screaming to call the Ku Klux Klan or the Atomwaffen Division terrorist groups but had absolutely no problem doing the same for a couple of environmentalists who burn some hummers. And there was James Comey wringing his hands on whether to call Dylann Roof a terrorist (And if he wasn't then who is?)

[Hugh_Lebowski]

30. Who the hell 'self-describes' as 'terrorists'?

Who are you talking about?

They always speak of themselves as Freedom Fighters or Protectors of The Faith or some other shit, NEVER 'terrorists'

Unless it's CLEARLY discovered that this kid meant his attack to be some sort of political statement ... he won't end up charged with 'terrorism' before the court, nor will it be something he pleads guilty to in his plea bargain.

Guess we'll see who's right down the road

[ck4829]

49. Historical

One example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Nikiforova

James Hoskins was also a self-described terrorist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WCPO-TV#1980_hostage_situation

[Torchlight]

17. Seems reasonable to suggest he intended to intimidate many of his schoolmates

One of the foundational legal definitions of domestic terrorism is "to intimidate or coerce a civilian population."

That however, is federal law and I don't know what specific addendum or redaction to that the state may have made.

[Tommy Carcetti]

21. Well, any act of violence is going to have the effect of intimidation.

But was there a cause greater than himself that he sought to intimidate in the name of, or was it just a matter of personal vengeance/revenge? There's the distinguishing line.

[Torchlight]

23. I'm sure that distinguishing line will be made plain as time goes on.

But still... it seems quite reasonable to me to suggest he attempted (rather successfully) to intimidate more than just the students/staff he was allegedly bullied by and sought revenge against. Also, as far as I read, intimidation does not legally require a cause to be considered as such.

[Thomas Hurt]

18. Every violent crime scares the crap out the direct victims and anyone witnessing it.

Are you saying all crimes without a racist, political, religious component are the same as fascist, or jihadist terrorism?

[ck4829]

9. Huh, not just for Muslims. Deserves it.

[sarisataka]

15. It is an unusual charge

However if he put stuff on social media that his actions had a broader cause (even if only in his mind) he might very well meet the definition of terrorism.

[Gore1FL]

24. The incident fits because of the way it is defined in MI law.

750.543b Definitions.
Sec. 543b. As used in this chapter:
(a) "Act of terrorism" means a willful and deliberate act that is all of the following:
(i) An act that would be a violent felony under the laws of this state, whether or not committed in this state.
(ii) An act that the person knows or has reason to know is dangerous to human life.
(iii) An act that is intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population or influence or affect the conduct
of government or a unit of government through intimidation or coercion

It seems (i) and (ii) have it covered.

Link to PDF where the above info was obtained

[sarisataka]

26. It needs (iii) however

To be terrorism. "that is all of the following:"

[Gore1FL]

27. I stand corrected.

I missed the "all."

[TheRickles]

38. But it has to include all three elements, and there doesn't seem to be a governmental target here.

And "civilian population" is probably intended to mean a town or a city, rather than a school. But we shall see.

[Gore1FL]

45. I completely missed the "all" when I posted.

good catch.

[ck4829]

50. Well, a school is an organ of the government. It could fit.

[Johnny2X2X]

5. The behavior

It involved him bringing a severed deer head to school and writing a threat next to it.

[Grasswire2]

10. is that true? nt

[sarisataka]

12. Do you have a link?

I read earlier today the sheriff said that was an unrelated incident.

[RockRaven]

6. Is this the one where the father bought the gun like a week before the killings?

[RandySF]

7. Yep

[Crunchy Frog]

16. The parents should really be charged as well.

As far as I know, the kid didn't own the guns. Somebody left them unattended where an unstable teenager could access them.

[Zeitghost]

22. Does MI

Does MI have storage requirements? We do in CA, or at least a form of it. Any firearm owner that does not properly lock up their guns can be charged, but only if the gun is used in a crime.

[Kaleva]

42. If the shooter is not an adult, gun owner could be held liable

"You may be criminally and civilly liable for any harm caused by a
person less than 18 years of age who lawfully gains unsupervised
access to your firearm if unlawfully stored. As such, a trigger lock,
gun case or other device designed to prevent unauthorized access to a
firearm is strongly recommended."

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/msp-203_-_PDF_286476_7.pdf

However, Michigan does not have any specific laws concerning storage of guns but you could be charged with other crimes connected to it.

[NowISeetheLight]

29. Gun Control is Impossible

IMO. There are just to many guns out there to manage anymore. No new gun control law would’ve prevented this, or Parkland, or Sandy Hook. I’m just being realistic.

I’d favor two new laws. 1) Making parents/individuals who allow access and don’t secure guns subject to the same criminal penalties as the shooter. The parents can then make their own decision if they want to ignore the law or follow it. But in the end it’s up to individual responsibility. 2) Mandatory manslaughter conviction if someone doesn’t secure a weapon resulting in a child’s death.

Hold the gun owners responsible. That is probably the best we can hope for. At least then we’d have some accountability.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

32. I guess you don't see the inherent dichotomy of your post?

"No new gun control law would’ve prevented this"

"I’d favor two new laws"

And you think it's at least possible ... these new gun control laws COULD prevent a non-zero number of similar instances in the future, right?

Due to making gun owners accountable, right?

[kcr]

33. Agree with you re your proposed laws

And, I would put them in the category of gun control.

[maxsolomon]

35. The laws don't PREVENT rampage shootings. They would 1. reduce the frequency and 2. punish them.

That's what you propose: penalties for abetting a rampage shooting, or any shooting.

Welcome to DU.

[NowISeetheLight]

47. That is what I would hope would happen

My hope would be at least a few of the parents would secure the guns.

[moreland01]

37. Wondering

how long until his trumper mom hires Rittenhouse's lawyers.

[johnthewoodworker]

41. I come from Rittenhouse/Republican murder state of Wisconsin. This shooter should

go to court, lie and cry in the courtroom, and be released by judge so he can be home in time for dinner. Murder is the Republican gift for everyone.

[milestogo]

43. He was in trouble but nobody thought to ask where the gun was.

[Kaleva]

44. Apparently, authorities removed many guns from the home.