Question about Epstein and Maxwell

[Effete Snob]

I’m puzzled by the Maxwell trial, and would like to hear an answer from a subscriber to the “Epstein didn’t kill himself” contingent.

My understand of this widely held belief is that after Trump’s DoJ went through all of the trouble of arresting Epstein and shining a national spotlight on him, instead of just bumping him off or kidnapping him elsewhere, they then decided to kill him. The reason for killing him was to prevent the disclosure of secrets he knew, even though he would most certainly not be testifying at his trial.

If that’s the case, then why are “they” allowing a trial of Maxwell to go forward? And don’t tell me “it’s now a different DoJ” because she was arrested in July 2020 - seven months before Trump’s term ended - and was thus in custody under Barr’s DoJ for longer than Epstein was.

Wouldn’t Maxwell know the same stuff that Epstein was supposedly killed to cover up?

A subsidiary question would be whether Garland is aware that Barr had Epstein killed or if he’s in on it too, but I’ll save that one.

[Grasswire2]

1. can't answer the questions.

It's a big, dirty, complicated club and we ain't in it. The American people suffer from so many secrets held from us.

How can we properly consent to be governed, when material information that would affect our votes is held from us in perpetuity? That's my question.

[Effete Snob]

7. Okay, so the whole thing is a pointless scam

…and it doesn’t matter who is elected. Do I understand you correctly?

[Grasswire2]

14. No.

I just wish for more transparency and fewer secrets kept from the people.

To wit: The recent failure to reveal the JFK info. What the heck?

And every time I see certain senators on TV, they are in front of a camera to tell us that we people should be seeing this "shocking" and that "horrifying" classified information.

There's too much of "comity" and "bipartisanship" and "traditions" in people at the top.

[leftstreet]

2. Once they raided Epstein's home and got all the evidence

...nothing really much mattered

Both Epstein and Maxwell could have nattered on all day about things they knew, but without evidence it would just be salacious gossip

Which is why I kinda figure he did actually kill himself

[Effete Snob]

8. So there are no living victims?

Like “Jane” who testified yesterday, none of the victims are going to mention other people?

[leftstreet]

15. Without pics, video or audio recordings no one cares

(Seems if any of the victims had that we'd have heard by now)

As for the power of victim testimony, ask Christine Blasey Ford how that worked out.

Like I said, once they raided his home and got what they needed they were done with the whole thing

[2naSalit]

12. What if she had...

a cache of blackmail evidence stashed away, or the real stuff the authorities are looking for? It could be the other way around is all I'm saying, I am disgusted by the whole thing and I hope she ends up in prison for a long time. I just wish her partner didn't get the cheapskate's exit.

[Haggard Celine]

3. That's a good question.

Unless Maxwell has witnesses who will back up her testimony, she needs proof. Maybe Epstein had that proof and Maxwell doesn't. He was able to serve only a light sentence when he was caught before, and that was presumably because he had people pulling strings for him. It could be that the people who pulled strings before were afraid of doing it a second time, so he was blackmailing them. Maybe they aren't as afraid of Maxwell as they were of Epstein. This is all hypothetical, but a possibility.

[Effete Snob]

5. What testimony?

Maxwell is unlikely to testify. The best way to get someone NOT to testify is charge them.

But are you suggesting that none of the victims recall being coerced to engage in abuse with all of these supposed powerful people? (With the exception of Virginia Giuffre, although Prince Andrew has no actual power)

[Haggard Celine]

13. I'm not sure what Maxwell's strategy will be in this trial.

If I were her attorney, I would try to cast her as another victim of Jeffrey Epstein. I'd say that she was under his spell and devoted to him and he used her. I'd say that Epstein threatened her and used his wealthy, powerful clients to scare her into silence. Then I might put her on the stand and have her up there crying and begging forgiveness. Who knows, it might win over a couple of jurors.

Her attorney will want to be able to name names in this trial. He won't need to actually name them, just threaten to name them. That might be enough to get a good deal from the prosecution. Of course the victims recall being with these famous people, but will they be willing to say so? They'll be afraid to tell what they know and besides, they won't want to help Maxwell in any way.

[RockRaven]

4. To take your question seriously, not that I endorse this position, those people *could* say that

while Epstein and Maxwell both knew the same dirty secrets, only Epstein had proof to back it up. "They" don't need to take the risk of silencing Maxwell if she doesn't have the same video/audio tapes, etc. that Epstein had accumulated and hidden somewhere that nobody but him knows about or could access. Any accusations on her part which can't be corroborated by other evidence won't save her, or truly imperil others. It will look like a sleazy person trying to get themselves out of trouble by accusing every famous/powerful person she can think of.

[again, I'm not endorsing this position/idea, but it seems to me like people could easily convince themselves that this explains the difference]

[Effete Snob]

6. What about the victims?

I never understand why proof of the cabal requires videotapes, while ordinary witness testimony, such as will be heard in Maxwell’s trial, is sufficient.

[RockRaven]

10. Tin foil hat answers: most victims won't cooperate because they don't want to be dragged

through the mud by the defense attorneys and media, or let their family/friends/coworkers know they were abused (sex shaming and victim blaming), or they didn't know who the men were who assaulted them, or they are afraid of the costs of even successfully defending defamation suits from their assailants, etc.

They will have a dozen reasons.

[brewens]

9. It's possible Epstein pulled a Hermann Georing. He had as much reason to kill himself

as anyone else that ever committed suicide behind bars. The suspicious shit could have been Epstein himself setting it up so he'd have the chance to kill himself.

[Irish_Dem]

16. Maxwell has agreed to a cover up, but Epstein didn't??

Maxwell won't name names, but Epstein was going to sing?

Maxwell is not stupid, she saw what happened to Epstein.

Not saying it is true, but would explain the difference.

[Effete Snob]

17. "Maxwell won't name names"

But Maxwell isn't the only person involved.

The victim who testified so far this week affirmatively stated she was not coerced into abusive activity with anyone other than Epstein.

Was she lying?

Several of the victims have testified multiple times, been involved in the production of documentary films, etc.. The only victim who mentions a handful of not-so-stellar figures such as Prince Andrew, is Virginia Giuffre.

Apart from Giuffre, are the other victims lying?

[Irish_Dem]

18. The other victims are scared?

Let's be honest. The rich and famous usually skate in terms of sexual scandals.
Do we really think Prince Andrew will be dragged away in handcuffs and go to prison?

Epstein sold minor children to very wealthy and famous men for sexual purposes.
This is a fact. There have been enough reports about activities on his private island to confirm.

These wealthy men are very well connected politically.

Does anyone really think they will ever face justice?

Epstein's "suicide" was both a way to shut him up and to warn off any other witnesses.

Bill Barr's mysterious visit to Epstein in jail.

Jail guards who were very sloppy in their work guarding a high risk and high profile prisoner.

Sorry to be such a sceptic, but I did quite a bit of forensic work before I retired.
Connecting the dots and understanding the criminal justice and political system are fairly easy in the sad Epstein saga.