Yes World, It's That Bad Here in America--and Worse: Pavlovitz

[edhopper]

https://johnpavlovitz.com/2021/12/01/yes-world-its-that-bad-here-in-america-and-worse/

I sadly agree with him. This is the crux of the matter:

Yes, it’s the complete bastardization of the rule of law and the systems of protections our forebears put in place to avoid putting our nation in such peril—but it’s our coworkers and uncles and classmates who don’t seem to give a damn about that.

Yes, it’s one political party’s sociopathic lack of empathy and their unrepentant viciousness—but it’s the people we’ve shared Thanksgiving dinner with and served on mission trips alongside, who share their venom and boost their signal.

Yes, it’s Republican politicians’ incessant attacks on LGBTQ people and immigrants and Muslims and the sick and the vulnerable—but it’s the once kind-hearted people we love, who have been so poisoned by partisan talking points and perverted Christian theology that they celebrate all of it.

[malaise]

1. That's about right

Get thee to the greatest page - MUST READ

[brush]

2. Yes, and it's very sad. It's likely too late to pull republicans back from their...

susceptibility to lap up, believe and act on the many conspiracy theories and disinformation campaigns they eagerly fall for.

[Doc Sportello]

3. Spot on and will resonate with so many people

People who I used to think were decent people even though I disagreed with them I now want nothing to do with.

[Mr. Steve]

4. Me too.

I am in the same situation with several family members no longer welcome at my door. Fortunately, I am in Colorado and they are in New Hampshire.

[Evolve Dammit]

9. I think many of us have lost family in the last 5 years. Can't reach them. Welcome to DU

[Doc Sportello]

19. Faux News, the RW oligarchs and the rest have broken this country

Whether it's a family discussion, talk at the dog park, business dealing or any other part of everyday life, their sickness has to intrude as they try to justify it. It's a screwed up way to live. Fortunately for me, family isn't like that. Sorry for your situation but welcome to DU and the like-minded folks here.

[Buckeyeblue]

37. Yes. Acquaintances and local businesses

There are people we used to socialize with that we are no longer willing to. There are businesses we used to frequent but I won't give them a dime of my money. The family is the toughest part. Visits are cordial and quick.

I'll be honest, I'm not sure where the country goes from here. I suspect it'll survive. There are enough challenges that the country will need to face in the coming years with global warming, a potentially heavy handed China and a destabilized Russia, along with continued economic disparity, that splitting the country won't be feasible or sustainable. We'll be like a married couple that would prefer to divorce but can't afford to.

But I could be wrong.

[Doc Sportello]

38. Yeah I don't know where this is going either.

I don't see how it's feasible to go on like this without something terrible happening. I also don't see how the country can be split. Do people in Austin or Atlanta want to be part of an apartheid like state in the south?

But I'm old so it will be for others to deal with in the coming years.

[plimsoll]

5. One of the people who actually speaks to the perverted theology.

My one question is when do you acknowledge that they’re no longer Christian?

[PatrickforB]

12. When they become dominionists. Definitely.

When they adopt the libertarian, "Why should I pay anything for you? I'll cheerfully watch you starve as long as I'm not taxed to pay for any program to help you. You should be pulling yourself up by the bootstraps!" rugged individualist mentality we have been so carefully coached into having. 'For if ye have done it to the least of these my brothers and sisters, then ye have done it unto me.'

I'd put the 'prosperity Christianity' into that boat, too. Because we should be trying to serve the Divine in the best way possible, and to my mind that involves trying to organize ourselves so that everyone has enough. Silly me, it has always bothered me that 25,000 people STARVE to death daily on this earth. We have no excuse for letting that happen. I suppose the reference for this is the Sermon on the Mount section of Matthew, and the Book of Acts.

Same with hate of Muslims, LGBTQ, all that. The hate is a 'sin' in that it keeps them separate from unity with the Divine will. Goes back to the passage in Matthew where it says, "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?" That is a perfect definition of karma.

I guess it all boils down to the old Golden Rule - Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Anyone who forgets that, who pointedly does not live by that, has erred and that error (sin) separates them from being one with the Divine will.

That's my stab at it, as clumsy as it may be.

[modrepub]

17. On The Libertarian

I'd go full in because economically, the suburbs and urban areas are more economically active (and generate more tax revenue) than the rural areas. I'll leave it to you to figure out which party controlled areas, therefore, contribute more to federal and state tax revenue.

Go ahead, make taxing a zero sum game. All taxes stay where they are generated. There will be wide swaths of this country with an inability to maintain basic infrastructure. Guess which party will be in control of those areas? The closest analogy I can think of is the person who puts a few bucks in the church till on Sundays and demands to be the church deacon.

While I wouldn't think myself very nice for going to this extreme, I'd settle for local matches on state and federal monies. People really don't know just how much they depend on government services until they aren't there. Republican mantra seems to be why pay for something when you can just take it from someone else.

[plimsoll]

20. I think it extends to a lot of the Biblical literalist groups as well.

Having grown up in a Unitarian household I got used to hearing "You just pick and choose the parts of the Bible you like." As I got older I realized that everyone does that, and the parts you choose says more about you than it does God. Many contemporary fundamentalists choose the most vindictive parts of the Bible they can find to focus on. Gods wrath is a big deal and they are prepared to work "gods will" as long as it's brutal to people they fear.

I think it's a syncretic religion, one that uses the Bible as justification for it's behavior. It has the words, but none of the intent.

[edhopper]

22. Given the history of Christianity

they fit right in. They are Christians, just as liberal theologians who want to care for the poor and embrace diversity are Christians as well. The problem is defining Christianity as anything put the belief in Christ. That can lead to as many different positions as there are churches.

[plimsoll]

27. 10 years ago I would have agreed.

And frankly that is a nearly unassailable position, but at some point you have to ask if Christ, let alone god actually engages in actions that would be considered crimes against humanity if committed by human beings. As I said in another response, it seems to be a syncretic religion, it's joined the worst aspects libertarian thought with a vengeful god.

I've said this before and it really riles some people, but in fact they own that trademark of Christian now, I just don't think it means the same thing that it used to or that others assume it does.

[edhopper]

28. Being an atheist

my opinion of God and Christianity is not the most favorable. But I would say these rethought are hurting the brand.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

30. I stopped being xtian

When I read the bible cover to cover,and the nuttiness and abuse in the assemblies of god church pushed me away from religion.

[edhopper]

31. Glad you

thought your way out of it.

[plimsoll]

33. In the strictest sense,

I'm an atheist. Agnostic is more like it. I can't prove or disprove the existence of any god. There are definitions of god that I would accept. It rarely aligns with what other people mean by god. (lower case usage deliberate.) This however get's back to my original point, I'm not convinced they even worship the same god. They don't start out with an understanding of what Christianity is, so they accept what they are told is Christian. In most respects modern Christianity seems very Orwellian, the words surrounding Christianity have been co-opted, so even your statement about believing in Christ fails to make a meaningful definition anymore. If Christ can be anything, then being Christian lacks meaning.

Oddly the very complaints you hear from conservatives and Christians about "relativism" and tradition are the very things they practice or pervert.

[edhopper]

34. This is largely true

They fail to understand how recent their literal translation of the Bible is.

[ffr]

6. Kentucky. It all centers right now around that scumbag of a man, Mitch McConnell.

A Stalinistic leader of the GOP horde, a collection of losers and wimps with no backbone, only a lust for power and greed.

[KS Toronado]

7. Moscow Mitch has had a lot of help

[Tommymac]

8. Don't post on FB much anymore - but this one is going there

Mainly so my global family sees it and understands how bad it really is here.

(I have one good friend in the Ukraine, I'll admit they have it MUCH worse then us right now. Thank God For President Biden.)

Of coarse, if only one of the RW nut jobs (family and friends) who follow me (admittedly not many anymore) pay attention and actually read the article, maybe it will penetrate their selfish version of Reality and cause them to actually use their critical thinking skills.

Thanks for the link.

[olegramps]

10. I do not have any Republican friends. A few who are at best barely acquaintances.

I used to consider a few Republicans as friends. No longer. How can I be friends with people who are destroying the nation that I served to protect when I joined the Army? They really have not changed but are just revealing their deep-seated hatred and prejudices that they silently harbored. This is just a massive coming out party that was fully sanctioned by Trump's election as president.

Will they like blind fools actually destroy the Republic? I don't have any greater insight than anyone else. However, it reminds me of a story in Jewish literature in which a man on a boat started to drill a hole under his seat and when the passengers protested, he said that it was his right since he paid for the seat. But they replied yes, but the water that will rush in will drown us all. The Republicans have hijacked the government by taking advantage and abuse of the very freedoms and rights it guarantees its citizens. It is like a Greek ironic tragedy in which the greedy acquisition of power leads to self-destruction.

[usaf-vet]

11. So what is the way out of this maze of disbelief? Give me a touch of hope that there is at least one

.. least one path leading to sanity.

[edhopper]

23. Until enough people in Red States

wake up to the true nature of the GOP, I fear there is little we can do. They are in the midst of stealing this country.

[usaf-vet]

26. Well if i were a drinker I would be looking large stiff Vodka & Club Soda right now.....

.... so high test coffee will have to serve.

Ouch! I believe you are actually right on target.

I'm reminded of my four years in the south when more than one true red neck told me that they never lost the civil war just the "first" battle and they would be back.

[lambchopp59]

13. Dunning/Kruger on full display

Dolts incapable of recognizing how idiotically childish their "piss on Biden" bumperstickers make them appear. Boldface idiots I Xray at work sick as can be, getting intubated, some who STILL won't get vaccinated after discharge because Fuckface Carlson continues to bamboozle them.
Our local poster child for this ilk got arrested for drunk driving last weekend.
Go figure.

[slightlv]

14. Damn, that was a good reading!

From line one to the final line... he validated everything I have felt since TFG came down that stupid escalator. I don't ask my brother who he voted for. I'm afraid of the answer. Whenever we've discussed politics, we've never agreed on anything in the past. He's a one issue voter - 2nd amendment... period. (sigh)

But I do feel blessed in that I have a large group of friends who've been together for nearly 30 years now as a group. We're of like mind spiritually, politically, and we've shown time and again we'll do whatever needs to be done for one another. With aging parents and grandchildren and great-grandchildren now, the whole group gets together as a whole less frequently; but when we do, we pick up as though no time has passed, even if it might have been 5 or 10 years since we've seen one of us. That's why I feel blessed, between my "chosen" family and my real-life sister, I've managed to maintain sanity.

I do hope some of them are planning an intervention, however, when SCOTUS hands down their decision classifying women as slaves of the state. Or, at least come up with the bail money I'll need when I lose it at that point!

[FakeNoose]

15. Suddenly the foreigners have no interest in coming here any more

Why is that?

[cilla4progress]

16. This won't speak to all here, but it may speak to some...

and I only bring it up because Pavolovitz - a minister (former minister?) himself - talks in his post about the betrayal in religious communities.

I have resumed attending my LIBERAL religious faith community - the Unitarian Fellowship where I live.

It has been sooooo welcome and healing. If you know anything about Unitarianiasm (or Unitarian Universalism) it has no dogma, accepts a multitude of religious identities, including earth-based, as well as LGBTQ. It's not perfect, but it aligns with my progressive political beliefs. I don't want to wax on overly long here, you can look it up.

All I want to say is I'm so glad I found my way back, as it is a community of intelligent, caring, liberal, open-hearted people where I feel safe, comforted, and welcome. It is also an INTENTIONAL community, which means a lot to me. I don't have to do the dance of "do they want to be friends or not." Last Sunday our speaker was a local Native American woman talking about reparations and other issues. We were all humbled. It's Zoom church, still, for now. Tonight we are co-sponsoring the film "Gather" and a follow-up discussion with our local museum. https://gather.film/

OK - SO NOW I RESEARCHED PAVLOVITZ AND HE IS A UNITARIAN. Shiver me timbers!

https://smashinginterviews.com/interviews/authors/john-pavlovitz-interview-how-christians-got-god-wrong

[Martin Eden]

18. "We are in a Constitional crisis and a family emergency"

John Pavlovitz is a voice in the wilderness who needs to be heard by more people who call themselves Christians.

[Loge23]

21. By and for the people

We can and should blame the GOP for much of this mess, but as this essay points out - it's us that are at fault and by "us" I mean the people of this country. It should be pointed out that there's actually very little "marching and protesting and working and resisting in the face of this monumental and historically malevolent national political cancer..." going on to any great extent or effect. Indeed, in Florida we'll probably be either arrested or shot for protesting anything counter to the doofus governor's will.
It's the people who vote for monsters like #TFG or MTG or Boebert. It's the people who continue to support TFG for another run in 2024. It's the people we know, or used to know.
Some say it's 30% of us, a figure I disagree with. I think it's much higher, but then again, I live in Florida. But even in my old hometown in NYC (not Manhattan), my brother who's still there reports that almost the entire neighborhood has gone to the dark side.
I have said this before, but it's sadly true: the country is hopelessly broken and we're living through the ruins.

[edhopper]

24. I agree it is much higher

the last election showed us that too many in this country will vote for a Republican no matter how horrible that person is.

[SunImp]

25. So true

[Demovictory9]

29. K&r

[Poiuyt]

32. I think there's more than just regular citizens who have turned to the dark side...

I think a lot of Americans are just ignorant of what's happening. Or, if you're a while middle class person, you see what's happening, but figure that since it doesn't affect you, you don't need to get up in arms about it.

[burrowowl]

35. Amen! You tell it like it is!

[KY_EnviroGuy]

36. K&R. Good article. John hit a lot of nails on the head....

on a cancerous process many of us have been observing for decades (for me, since Nixon).

America had better wake up. Republicans and other right-wing elements around the globe are systematically destroying almost all normal human interrelationships: brotherhood, friendship, community, unity and even charity.

They are doing this purely for the sake of greed and the wealthy's thirst for power, IMO. Everything else they talk about is just a smoke screen.

KY......