General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRemember the armed robbery back in the 80s or 90s where the robbers had assault rifles
and body armor? The police had them surrounded but couldnt capture because the body armor was protecting them. The robbers fired hundreds of rounds. The cops had to go to a nearby sporting goods store and borrow some high powered hunting rifles. Im not sure if that was when high capacity magazines were still restricted. It seemed like law enforcements response was to acquire more powerful weapons. No laws were passed to limit private ownership of assault style weapons, body armor, or the ammunition that was developed to penetrate the Kevlar vests. Everyone just upped their game. Why would any hunter or sport shooter need these kinds of things?
Celerity
(43,399 posts)underpants
(182,823 posts)Who had only sidearms and shotguns.
I dont know if we ever heard why the two guys did this. Maybe it was a jewelry heist or something that went wrong.
The North Hollywood shootout was a confrontation between two heavily armed and armored bank robbers, Larry Phillips Jr. and Emil Mătăsăreanu, and members of the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) in the North Hollywood district of Los Angeles, California, United States on February 28, 1997. Both robbers were killed, 12 police officers and eight civilians were injured, and numerous vehicles and other property were damaged or destroyed by the nearly 2,000 rounds of ammunition fired by the robbers and police.
At 9:17 a.m., Phillips and Mătăsăreanu entered and robbed Bank of America's North Hollywood branch. The two robbers were confronted by LAPD officers when they exited the bank and a shootout between the officers and robbers ensued. The robbers attempted to flee the scene, Phillips on foot and Mătăsăreanu in their getaway vehicle, while continuing to exchange fire with the officers. The shootout continued onto a residential street adjacent to the bank until Phillips, mortally wounded, succumbed to a self-inflicted gunshot wound; Mătăsăreanu was incapacitated by officers three blocks away and subsequently bled to death before the arrival of paramedics more than an hour later. Phillips and Mătăsăreanu are believed to have robbed at least two other banks using similar methods for entry past "bullet-proof" security doors, taking control of the entire bank, and firing weapons illegally modified to enable fully-automatic fire. They were also suspects in two armored car robberies.
Standard issue sidearms carried by most local patrol officers at the time were 9mm pistols or .38 Special revolvers; some patrol cars were also equipped with a 12-gauge shotgun. Phillips and Mătăsăreanu carried Norinco Type 56 rifles (a Chinese AK-47 variant), a Bushmaster XM-15 Dissipator with a 100-round drum magazine, and a Heckler & Koch HK91 rifle, all of which had been illegally modified to be select-fire capable, as well as a Beretta 92FS pistol. The robbers wore homemade body armor which successfully protected them from handgun rounds and shotgun pellets fired by the responding officers. A law enforcement SWAT team eventually arrived with higher caliber weapons, but they had little effect on the heavy body armor used by the two perpetrators. The SWAT team also commandeered an armored car to evacuate the wounded. Several officers additionally equipped themselves with AR-15s and other semi-automatic rifles from a nearby firearms dealer. The incident sparked debate on the need for patrol officers to upgrade their firepower in preparation for similar situations in the future.
Due to the large number of injuries, rounds fired, weapons used, and overall length of the shootout, it is regarded as one of the most intense gun battles in U.S. police history. Combined, the two men had fired approximately 1,100 rounds in total, while approximately 650 rounds were fired by police. Another estimate is that a total of nearly 2,000 rounds were fired collectively.
snip
underpants
(182,823 posts)Thats a very complete Wikipedia post. Very interesting.
NickB79
(19,246 posts)And ALL ammo from hunting rifles will penetrate Kevlar vests. A regular hunting rifle with .30-30 or .30-06 rounds from 1920 would punch through one. They're only rated to stop handgun rounds and shotguns.
ripcord
(5,404 posts)The police had to go into a gun store to get AR-15s to combat the gunmen. Banning body armor would be impossible since Kevlar is easily available to anyone.
taxi
(1,896 posts)snip...
William Russell Matix and Michael Lee Platt are, without a doubt, cold-blooded killers. The bank robbers have no mercy. They don't just steal money. Even after getting bags of cash, they shoot -- and shoot to kill. They sometime dress in military gear, wear fatigues and war paint.
They shoot with high-powered weapons in broad daylight, and they don't care if there are civilians around. Get in their way, and they will cut you down.
The FBI report says they have two men on their radar, but they don't know much about them. When they begin robbing banks and armored cars in October 1985, it is the beginning of 18 months of fear for people who work and live along a stretch of Miami's South Dixie Highway.
https://www.local10.com/florida-files/2018/11/28/episode-one-april-11-1986-the-bloodiest-day-in-fbi-history/
blm
(113,063 posts)Stupidly assumed this country would be smart enough to outlaw copkillers bullets and prevent access to assault weapons for generations to come.
IcyPeas
(21,884 posts)I pass by that Bank of America occasionally and can't help but remember that shootout each time.
Walleye
(31,027 posts)1934 Hitchcock movie. London police had a criminal gang holed up in a house shooting Tommy guns at them. They went down the street and broke open a gun store to get some rifles.Hitchcock remade this film in the 50s with Doris Day, he always said that one was much better. But I prefer the 1934 version
Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)USALiberal
(10,877 posts)Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)USALiberal
(10,877 posts)Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,300 posts)back when this event occured, but California has (may have) laws against private citizens owning body armor and even bullet-proof vests. Also laws against body armor-piercing ammunition. But that isn't going to stop the bad guys from getting them. Lots of drugs are illegal also, but they are not hard to get.
Edit: I did a little googling, and it looks like body armor is legal here currently unless you are a convicted felon.
Here's some info on armor-piercing ammo:
https://www.chamberslawfirmca.com/are-armor-piercing-bullets-illegal-in-california/
NowISeetheLight
(3,943 posts)On one of those crime tv shows a few years ago.
madville
(7,410 posts)Most rifle rounds will defeat level II and III Kevlar vests in common use with law enforcement, they are used to stop common handgun rounds (9mm, .45, .38, etc). The rifle bullet itself doesnt matter much, FMJ, Hollow point or soft point. Its mostly about the speed of the projectile.
Military, SWAT teams, etc will have much heavier body armor designed to stop rifle rounds, these days they typically use ceramic plates in a carrier vest but they are too bulky and heavy for patrol officers to wear all the time. I imagine some departments now have that heavier armor available to patrol officers but theyd probably have it in the trunk of their car most of the time, but it would be available in a shootout situation like this.
This happened when the 1994 AWB was in affect but that didnt stop these guys from illegally modifying rifles and using high capacity magazines, the magazine ban back then was only on new ones available to civilians, existing pre-ban high capacity magazines were still readily available to everyone. Nowadays with 3D printing and semi-affordable CNC mills and lathes, making just about anything that could be banned isnt all that difficult. If youre robbing banks and murdering cops, a couple of extra weapons felonies tacked on arent much of a deterrent.
onethatcares
(16,168 posts)becoming evangelical preachers and fleecing their flock..