All 14 smash-and-grab suspects are out of jail, mostly because of no-bail policies

[IcyPeas]

All 14 smash-and-grab suspects are out of jail, mostly because of no-bail policies; one is a juvenile https://t.co/EyQGXN1N4z

https://abc7.com/smash-and-grab-robberies-follow-home-lapd-chief-michel-moore/11295639/

Link to tweet

LOS ANGELES (KABC) -- Los Angeles police have arrested 14 suspects in connection with a series of smash-and-grab robberies at local stores last month.

Police say there were at least 11 such robberies around Los Angeles in the week leading up to Thanksgiving, resulting in the theft of some $338,000 in retail goods.
Many of them involved flash mobs who swoop in quickly to a retail store, like Nordstrom at the Grove, smash glass cases and grab as many items as they can before fleeing.

The 14 arrests were linked to five such incidents. Three arrests resulted after a long, high-speed chase in which officers caught the suspects with car full of stolen merchandise.

Police acknowledged that after the arrests, all 14 suspects are now free again, under no-and-low bail policies that have been enacted in Los Angeles County recently. At least one suspect was a juvenile.

[ExciteBike66]

1. Do retail theft suspects need to remain in jail pending trial?

[Skittles]

2. this is hardly shoplifting

this is organized crime

[ExciteBike66]

3. Depends what they were charged with, it seems to me

I haven't found any stories about the specific charges against the 14 who were released pending trial.

[Volaris]

40. Ehhhh...ok, on balance, I'll grant that these were NOT random events...

Totally they were organized.

However...if Rittenhouse can post bail for shooting 3 people and killing 2 of them, I'm actually not concerned that some property thieves can walk around free until their court date.

That's just me, and you can yell at me for that position, its ok lol!

[Skittles]

41. Rittenhouse should have been kept in jail

and these folk should be have only been bailed out

[Volaris]

42. Yes, he fuckall should have.

Even then, property crime is not quite the same as homicide.

Yes, it's a felony amount. Nobody was killed during their robbery of corporate property.

I might feel different if it were 14 houses they had burgled...

[Voltaire2]

43. It is still shoplifting.

Last edited Sat Dec 4, 2021, 10:54 AM - Edit history (1)

Retail theft. Despite the manufactured panic, this is not a new phenomena nor is it a reason to get rid of bail reform.

[JustAnotherGen]

4. Not in NJ

It's handled in the municipality.

About 2016?2017? When part of my scope of work at VZW was fraud, theft, post Fraud freight review -

We had a mini mob theft at one of our stores in Florida. 5 young women overwhelmed our very tall, large store manager 1st thing in the morning.

They were free awaiting a trial. That said . . .

Two Fed Ex workers stole 2.1M in devices based in Killeen TX and they got a slap on the hand.

338K isn't going to send them to jail for the rest of their lives.

Not happening.

I'm so glad I don't have that function at my current employer. Depressing.

[FBaggins]

5. In many cases, yes

Some guy grabbing a box of perfume and running? No.

But those involved in organized “smash and grab” “flash mobs” that include violence or threats of violence, connections to organized crime, and threats to public safety (long high-speed chases evading police)?

Yeah… someone like that should be detained pending trial or at least have substantial bail.

[greenjar_01]

9. Those *alleged* to be involved in...

[cstanleytech]

11. This is a it more serious than someone walking out of WalMart with a TV.

[iemanja]

35. They should be on bail.

Not just running around.

[Voltaire2]

45. Bail criminalizes poverty.

[pazzyanne]

6. When are we going to learn "hand slaps" lead to more crime?

From "smash and grab" mobs to 4 years of ignoring what the former occupant of the White House did only produces more of the same behaviors. I truly fear for the future of this nation.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

15. We're not going to learn that, because harsher punishments do not lead to less crime.

[PTWB]

19. Is that entirely true?

Do you suppose that there would be zero additional crime if we removed all punishments?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

20. It's an assertion supported by many studies.

We know what causes crime; removing punishments without addressing the things that do cause crime would not reduce crime.

[PTWB]

21. Would removing punishments entirely cause an increase in crime?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

23. That I don't know.

[Act_of_Reparation]

33. Irrelevant.

No one is suggesting there be no consequence for crime. The debate is over what consequence should entail.

[iemanja]

37. I think Whiskey Grinder is.

but you'd have to ask him. I agree with him on most things, but not this.

[PTWB]

38. Well if punishments don't deter crime, as alleged, why have them at all?

[Voltaire2]

51. Note that the original issue here is bail.

If you agree that bail is a form of punishment then you would also have to agree that it is imposed on people who are accused, not convicted, of a crime.

[iemanja]

36. yes

The reason people are doing these flash grabs is because they get away with it.
They don't need the shit they are stealing.

[Nixie]

48. What caused the organized smash and grabs?

“We know what causes crime.”

[cinematicdiversions]

24. In reality though someone in prison is by definition not in public committing mayhem.

Thios simple logical point is one thing often glossed over by such studies.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

25. No, but they may be committing crime in prison.

And of course the studies look at the aggregate, not the individual.

[cinematicdiversions]

26. I certainly would rather they commit their crimes out of the public sphere.

Criminals are the reason you have crime such as rape and robbery. If you remove the criminal element, you eliminate most if not all of the crime.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

28. "If you remove the criminal element, you eliminate most if not all of the crime."

But there are still rapes, robberies, assaults and murders in prison. Crime in the model we have now is not necessarily "removed" -- it's simply foisted upon victims some feel are more acceptable than those in the "public sphere."

And that's only assuming a criminal is caught, tried and imprisoned in the first place, of course, which is the minority of violent reported crimes.

[Voltaire2]

44. Bail is punishment before conviction.

It’s another example of the criminalization of poverty.

[pazzyanne]

46. I still believe people need to be held responsible for their actions.

Taking responsibility for the choices you make is no longer a "thing" in the USA. I'm tired of the privileged getting special treatment, i.e. our former president for example. For all the illegal stuff he has pulled, and he walks away because of money and privilege.

[Voltaire2]

49. You do understand that people accused of a

crime ought to not be punished for that crime before they are convicted, right?

[pazzyanne]

53. You misunderstand what I said.

I am including people who avoid taking responsibility, not only crimes.

I understand you perfectly. You are focused on criminal acts only.

[bucolic_frolic]

7. If you can steal democracy you can sure knock over a local big box store

That's all this is, copycat in a different venue.

[pazzyanne]

47. + 1 nt

[johnthewoodworker]

8. As a resident of Republican/Rittenhouse murder state of Wisconsin I would suggest all

criminals go to court, cry your eyes out, and they'll release you for dinner.

[Orangepeel]

10. Are the suspects a threat?

It isn’t appropriate to keep them in jail because the crime they are accused of committing is bad. A suspect should be held without bail if they are likely to flee before trial or likely to be a danger to others while out.

People shouldn’t be punished for a crime before they are tried and convicted, even if the public and/or police think it is highly likely they are guilty. That’s what a trial is for.

[cstanleytech]

13. You could argue that someone that murdered their spouse in a fit of anger is no longer

a threat due to the spouse they were angry at being dead, so should they be released?
In the end what needs to be taken into account is both the severity and the motive and this was a premediated crime not for food but for $$$$.

[Orangepeel]

30. my issue is with locking up someone who isn't guilty

accused people are not guilty in the eyes of the law unless and until they are found guilty in court. They shouldn't be punished before that, even if the public and/or police firmly believe they are guilty.

Denying bail because the alleged crime is premeditated or whatever when the accused is not a flight risk or a likely threat is about punishment. The accused should inly be locked up if there is a public safety issue, not because they are probably bad.

[cstanleytech]

31. If this was a case say where someone got drunk, got in a fight and punched a person in the face

or a kid caught walking out of a store with a 5 dollar comic book or say a women that left a store with some bread and peanut butter to try and feed her young children I would agree.
Why? Well the first because if they are drunk they are not completely in their right mind and the other because the theft is a minor theft at worst and the last is because its clearly the act of a desperate woman trying to feed her children.
This though does not come close to any of those scenarios.

[USALiberal]

12. Why are there not other charges for a "high-speed chase"???

[LymphocyteLover]

14. I would note that if the culprit was a white collar executive who stole millions

they would not be in jail awaiting trial.

[leftstreet]

27. +1 They should have traded retailer's stock on inside info

They're just kickin it old school!

[cstanleytech]

32. That exec should be though and if they want out they should be putting up a shit ton of

personal collateral.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

16. Really looking forward to these tough-on-crime policies cracking down on rampant theft!!!!!!!

[Voltaire2]

50. Nobody cares, only affects wage slaves.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

17. California's between a rock and several hard places.

We've read for a long time of how overcrowded CA's jails and prisons are and I believe they're under court order to remedy that problem.

Then came the pandemic and tough economic times. Humanitarian reasoning demands you don't kill someone with COVID as a result of being locked up for a bar fight. Hence, the zero bail provision so both rich and poor are released to avoid the virus.

But some in the public sector demand these smash-and-grab criminals be locked up and their cell key thrown in the ocean. Their anger is understandable because everyone is trying hard to rebuild the economy, including getting retail outlets reopened and particularly for the holidays.

It may be possible for a judge at some point in the judicial process to at least put some of these thieves on home incarceration.

Quite a pickle they're in.....

[IcyPeas]

34. yes, but since CA passed Prop. 47 which turned some felonies into misdemeanors

these criminals know they can rob up to $950 and get a slap on the wrist for it.

you are right, one of the reasons it passed was to free up jail space but I don't think they predicted this part of it.

https://www.courts.ca.gov/prop47.htm

Shoplifting. The proposition added Penal Code section 459.5 to create a new misdemeanor offense called "shoplifting," punishable by up to 6 months in county jail. Shoplifting would be defined as "entering a commercial establishment with intent to commit larceny while that establishment is open during regular business hours" where the value of the property does not exceed $950. Any other entry into a commercial establishment with intent to commit larceny is burglary. Any act of shoplifting as defined above must be charged as shoplifting. No person charged with shoplifting may also be charged with burglary or theft of the same property.
...
Petty Theft. Proposition 47 added Penal Code section 490.2 to expressly define petty theft as “obtaining any property by theft where the value of the money, labor, real or personal property taken” does not exceed $950. This new definition of petty theft applies notwithstanding Section 487 “or any other provision of law defining grand theft.” (Pen. Code, § 490.2(a).) As such, the new definition of petty theft appears to apply regardless of how specific categories of property are treated under separate statutes. This new provision is not applicable to any theft that may be charged as an infraction “pursuant to any other provision of law.”

[soryang]

18. smash and grab?

looks like burglary of commercial structures to me. also because it is carried out by more than one individual at a time, conspiracy to commit. can be charged as a misdemeanor or felony. max sentence three years.

[Baitball Blogger]

22. Before you all freak out, is it possible that the movements of these people are

being watched in order to find the others? Life will be uncertain for them, since their co-conspirators will assume they're wearing wires.

[LeftInTX]

29. Yes, I hope they at least have ankle monitors...I have no problem with low or no-bail

But I would hope they have ankle monitors

[Wingus Dingus]

52. California needs to get it together. Warning people not to always be "staring at their phones"

and making sure they're not being followed home from shopping? It's just as well I can't afford to live there, sounds like mayhem.

[gulliver]

54. If convicted, suspend their right to use phones or other devices used for robbery for a year

That might put a big damper on the smash and grab idea. Give them something like one-year suspended prison sentences (misdemeanor) on the condition that they surrender the devices used to conspire and commit the crimes and do not obtain or possess new devices with similar capability.