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demmiblue

(36,858 posts)
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 09:56 AM Dec 2021

#BREAKING The Oakland county prosecutor will bring charges against the parents of the Oxford high...

Last edited Fri Dec 3, 2021, 12:49 PM - Edit history (1)

#BREAKING The Oakland county prosecutor will bring charges against the parents of the Oxford high school shooter. Details will be presented at a noon press conference. @WWJ950 @FOX2News





EDIT:

BREAKING UPDATE: Oakland Co. Prosecutor files involuntary manslaughter charges against suspect's parents in Oxford High School shooting. We'll have the live announcement here:



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#BREAKING The Oakland county prosecutor will bring charges against the parents of the Oxford high... (Original Post) demmiblue Dec 2021 OP
Good. The parents were called to the school the morning of the shootings to talk about their son. Botany Dec 2021 #1
But, but, their freedums. Baitball Blogger Dec 2021 #19
Hopefully their freedums will be short lived. KS Toronado Dec 2021 #25
What possible charges? Beakybird Dec 2021 #2
Not securing their weapons therefore negligence (?) MagickMuffin Dec 2021 #4
Nope. James48 Dec 2021 #10
Which is completely irrelevant to a negligent homicide Effete Snob Dec 2021 #15
If they are trumpers Turbineguy Dec 2021 #35
Duty of care standards are objective Effete Snob Dec 2021 #42
So it's perfectly legal to just leave your guns lying about? ck4829 Dec 2021 #16
Pretty much.... LeftInTX Dec 2021 #48
It wasn't the parent's gun. Kablooie Dec 2021 #58
Apparently they have an appropriate law and I say good. You don't take a disturbed kid Demsrule86 Dec 2021 #18
It seems that that some believe gun owners should have all rights and no responsibilities...well Demsrule86 Dec 2021 #21
If Michigan doesn't have a safe storage law, they don't have one! LeftInTX Dec 2021 #26
The presence or absense of a safe storage law is, as you suggest, irrelevant Effete Snob Dec 2021 #41
Well said. yardwork Dec 2021 #34
+1 LizBeth Dec 2021 #38
Reckless endangerment? Wounded Bear Dec 2021 #5
How about being morons who gave their 15 year old son access to a 9mm handgun. Ray Bruns Dec 2021 #7
Their clearly disturbed son... louis-t Dec 2021 #11
Involuntary manslaughter. n/t demmiblue Dec 2021 #39
That fits Beakybird Dec 2021 #45
They are charged, as I understand it, with involuntary manslaughter. Scottie Mom Dec 2021 #57
If anything good can come from this tragedy is sending the message that those enabling can be hlthe2b Dec 2021 #3
It can't come to soon for me...we will see how these gunner parents who use very poor judgement Demsrule86 Dec 2021 #24
What did they know? bucolic_frolic Dec 2021 #6
Apparently they have instructed their son not to cooperate with authorities Orange Buffoon Dec 2021 #9
But authorities will learn of their conversation with school officials earlier in the day bucolic_frolic Dec 2021 #13
How do you know what they are capable of? Demsrule86 Dec 2021 #27
That is what there son should do obamanut2012 Dec 2021 #20
That is not a crime LeftInTX Dec 2021 #22
This is what I am thinking. With 2 teachers overhearing something enough to concern LizBeth Dec 2021 #40
I'm not going to hold my breath. plimsoll Dec 2021 #8
If they can spring him, he will be on Hannity. louis-t Dec 2021 #12
I don't know about the parents. I hope they spend time in jail. But the kid's life is over. He will Demsrule86 Dec 2021 #29
maybe the silver spoon guy will bail him out n/t orleans Dec 2021 #30
Perhaps they can be charged as accessories to murder for providing the weapon. patphil Dec 2021 #14
No worries. I'm from Republican/Rittenhouse murderous state of Wisconsin. As I've johnthewoodworker Dec 2021 #17
Tucker Carlson will defend them! budkin Dec 2021 #23
A charming mother DeeDeeNY Dec 2021 #28
Good Bettie Dec 2021 #31
In the past few days there have been wnylib Dec 2021 #32
Just watch Traildogbob Dec 2021 #33
From what I've read, there needs to be MORE of this when it applies. nt oldsoftie Dec 2021 #36
BREAKING UPDATE: Oakland Co. Prosecutor files involuntary manslaughter charges against suspect's... demmiblue Dec 2021 #37
"LOL. I'm not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught." demmiblue Dec 2021 #43
It appears our judiciary isn't completely broken. gldstwmn Dec 2021 #44
I think it is a good legal strategy. Caliman73 Dec 2021 #46
Here is a link to the press conference blogslug Dec 2021 #47
People Control, Not Gun Control Sancho Dec 2021 #49
And why do they need guns in the first place? elias7 Dec 2021 #60
As it should be. Cha Dec 2021 #50
Charged with involuntary manslaughter struggle4progress Dec 2021 #51
Fugitive team searching for parents struggle4progress Dec 2021 #52
Attorney says parents headed back for arraignment struggle4progress Dec 2021 #53
Two attorneys say they are not fleeing struggle4progress Dec 2021 #54
Outstanding - should be done in all such cases packman Dec 2021 #55
Get ready for bizarro world level coverage of this latest media firestorm robbob Dec 2021 #56
Ironically, had they not run... joshcryer Dec 2021 #59

Botany

(70,510 posts)
1. Good. The parents were called to the school the morning of the shootings to talk about their son.
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 10:03 AM
Dec 2021

They could have told about the 9 mm automatic they had just bought and all of that bloodshed
could have been prevented. They were both gun nuts and Trumpers too.

MagickMuffin

(15,943 posts)
4. Not securing their weapons therefore negligence (?)
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 10:57 AM
Dec 2021


That would be my guess. But you'll find out soon enough.


 

Effete Snob

(8,387 posts)
15. Which is completely irrelevant to a negligent homicide
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 11:40 AM
Dec 2021

Criminally negligent homicide - variously referred to as "manslaughter" or "involuntary homicide" under different state codes - is a homicide that results from criminally negligent behavior.

Criminal negligence occurs when one does not exercise due care concerning a risk with a strong likelihood of resulting in death or injury.

A "safe storage law" has nothing to do with the duty of care required of a parent having a child with known issues and who does not take appropriate measures to keep that child from committing exactly the sort of mayhem which was reasonably foreseeable in the absence of those measures.

That has utterly nothing to do with the presence or absence of a safe storage law or regulation. Giving a firearm to your lunatic teenager who is inclined to shoot up the school is criminally negligent. Moreover, I don't believe it is unlikely to find out that a parent has a DUTY to know whether their lunatic teenager may be so inclined BEFORE giving them a firearm.

The parents supplied an instrumentality of mass murder to their lunatic child. It is unlikely that a jury is going to find that they did not know or have a duty to know their child was a nutjob.
 

Effete Snob

(8,387 posts)
42. Duty of care standards are objective
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 01:04 PM
Dec 2021

Regardless of what sort of people they might happen to be, the standard in these sorts of analyses is whether a person of ordinary reasonableness and prudence would have left a gun where this child can get at it. Obviously, we are going to learn more about the circumstances under which the child obtained or was even perhaps given the gun.

ck4829

(35,077 posts)
16. So it's perfectly legal to just leave your guns lying about?
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 11:41 AM
Dec 2021

So people can have like “little libraries” on their curbs but with guns instead of books?

LeftInTX

(25,363 posts)
48. Pretty much....
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 02:11 PM
Dec 2021

There are few laws regulating gifts and private sales, so this is entirely possible.

Theoretically gun sales are supposed to go through firearms check, but there is the gun show and gift loophole.

There are laws regarding firearm distribution to minors in states, so maybe that would fall under that law. In most states, it is OK for a minor to possess a firearm in the presence of guardian..(For hunting etc)

When I was a freshman in HS, the boys in my neighborhood were duck hunting. I was with them. That was the first and only time I fired a real firearm. We were both 14. This was in 1970 in Wisconsin. I think the gun was a .22 shotgun. There are different laws for different firearms however.

Demsrule86

(68,582 posts)
18. Apparently they have an appropriate law and I say good. You don't take a disturbed kid
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 11:52 AM
Dec 2021

target shooting and buy gun either for him or buy guns and allow access to him...the parents should be locked up in all these cases and then sued into penury.

Demsrule86

(68,582 posts)
21. It seems that that some believe gun owners should have all rights and no responsibilities...well
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 11:59 AM
Dec 2021

we have dead kids as a result of this sort of belief...I do not see what they did is any different than a person giving or selling another person a gun that is used in a crime. My friend is a cop in Newtown ( I went to High School in that area)...and let me just say that he told me the 30 kids gunned down by another lunatic teen whose dear Mommy bought him a gun (of course she was his first victim) were practically evaporated...they had to use dental records and DNA...first graders for God sakes. So, I don't really care what these imbecilic parents are charged with. It will never be enough. And I hope they spend some time in jail and are sued into bankruptcy.

LeftInTX

(25,363 posts)
26. If Michigan doesn't have a safe storage law, they don't have one!
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 12:03 PM
Dec 2021

However, I'm thinking the parents may have known that there son was in possession of a firearm. This would be different than a safe storage law.

 

Effete Snob

(8,387 posts)
41. The presence or absense of a safe storage law is, as you suggest, irrelevant
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 01:02 PM
Dec 2021

They are not going to be charged with violation gun storage regulations, if any.

They are going to be charged with criminally negligent homicide - under whatever title that sort of homicide is denominated under the laws of Michigan.

yardwork

(61,622 posts)
34. Well said.
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 12:16 PM
Dec 2021

The rights of gun owners are way out of proportion to everybody else's rights in this country. And I know many gun owners who agree that things are out of balance. Way too many irresponsible people running around with weapons of mass destruction and everybody walking on eggshells because of the gun lobby. Enough.

Wounded Bear

(58,662 posts)
5. Reckless endangerment?
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 11:00 AM
Dec 2021

Gross negligence?

We should have laws requiring safe storage and handling of firearms. Now, they are state based. Not sure what laws apply in this case.

Scottie Mom

(5,812 posts)
57. They are charged, as I understand it, with involuntary manslaughter.
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 09:48 PM
Dec 2021

Cal crim law definition is gross negligence causing death.

hlthe2b

(102,283 posts)
3. If anything good can come from this tragedy is sending the message that those enabling can be
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 10:54 AM
Dec 2021

(and will be) prosecuted.

Demsrule86

(68,582 posts)
24. It can't come to soon for me...we will see how these gunner parents who use very poor judgement
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 12:02 PM
Dec 2021

by even owning guns when they have a disturbed kid in their house feel when they are jailed and left penniless.

bucolic_frolic

(43,173 posts)
6. What did they know?
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 11:02 AM
Dec 2021

Did they know their son was in posssession? Or were they just negligent in not keeping it locked up? And what did they discuss in their meeting with school officials? From what I read I'm expecting defiance in the face of authority at all points, which the kid carried forth.

bucolic_frolic

(43,173 posts)
13. But authorities will learn of their conversation with school officials earlier in the day
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 11:24 AM
Dec 2021

I would suspect whatever impression they left will be difficult to hide behind, even if they weren't explicit. They are parents, they couldn't possibly have put him up to it.

obamanut2012

(26,079 posts)
20. That is what there son should do
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 11:57 AM
Dec 2021

There is nothing wrong with that. Lawyer up and keep quiet, let the cops and DA do their work.

Having said that, I hope the parents don't walk in free air again for many decades, and their son gets the help he needs and stays locked up for many years.

No one should ever be shamed for not cooperating with the cops if they are arrested, no matter what crime they did.

LizBeth

(9,952 posts)
40. This is what I am thinking. With 2 teachers overhearing something enough to concern
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 12:51 PM
Dec 2021

meeting, if there was any talk of shooting up school then I can see the parents being addressed if gun is sitting at home available and the parents took no action to investigate or ensure it was secure. Just curious what the start of all this was about.

plimsoll

(1,670 posts)
8. I'm not going to hold my breath.
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 11:13 AM
Dec 2021

I'm pretty sure the good people of Oakland county have adequate numbers of folks who hold the second amendment sacred to insure a mistrial.

And this is steps beyond sarcasm, but I'm sure that kid felt threatened. He needs a good go fund me page. I'm sure a church group somewhere will support him.

Demsrule86

(68,582 posts)
29. I don't know about the parents. I hope they spend time in jail. But the kid's life is over. He will
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 12:05 PM
Dec 2021

rot in jail...and as always in these situations, I am forced to conclude that these parents and others love their guns more than their kids. How sad is that?

patphil

(6,180 posts)
14. Perhaps they can be charged as accessories to murder for providing the weapon.
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 11:34 AM
Dec 2021

But, even if the parents haven't broken any laws, they could still be subject to a wrongful death suit.
What is it with underage kids and semi-automatic weapons in Michigan anyway?

 

johnthewoodworker

(694 posts)
17. No worries. I'm from Republican/Rittenhouse murderous state of Wisconsin. As I've
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 11:49 AM
Dec 2021

said before; go to court, cry on the stand, judge lets you get home for dinner.

wnylib

(21,479 posts)
32. In the past few days there have been
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 12:12 PM
Dec 2021

several threats of violence at various schools which, given the timing, appear to be either copycat actions or kids using the threat to close schools. Several schools have closed down due to these threats. One of them is in western NY state.

I was thinking today about how school shootings were not a thing when I was in school. I remember one boy in my junior high math class who set off a firecracker from his desk. Startled the hell out of us. The teacher immediately walked over to him and took him out of the classroom. Don't know what happened to the kid, but we never saw him in school again.

In today's school atmosphere, the kids would have assumed that the sound was a gunshot and would have fled screaming. The teacher would not have dared go near the kid, but would have got kids out of the room as quickly as possible. I sat near the back of the room, two seats away from the firecracker kid. If it had been a gun, I would probably not have escaped being shot.

Traildogbob

(8,746 posts)
33. Just watch
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 12:13 PM
Dec 2021

The hundreds of Millions of dollars poor in to defend the parents of a child slaughterer. With daily appearances on Fox News and the prolife network. Medals of Honor for all these 3 patriots. FreeDumb fighters. Free to kill in the name of Jesus and pro life.

demmiblue

(36,858 posts)
37. BREAKING UPDATE: Oakland Co. Prosecutor files involuntary manslaughter charges against suspect's...
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 12:48 PM
Dec 2021
BREAKING UPDATE: Oakland Co. Prosecutor files involuntary manslaughter charges against suspect's parents in Oxford High School shooting. We'll have the live announcement here:




Caliman73

(11,738 posts)
46. I think it is a good legal strategy.
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 01:39 PM
Dec 2021

I am not an attorney, but I think that it is a good strategy.

The parents will either have to take the heat for the kid, who will still get a significant consequence. OR The parents will have to throw the kid under the bus to save their own skins, cementing in most people's minds, what shitty horrible people they are.

Parents are the primary teachers of their children, at very least, prior to middle school. Research shows that parental influence fades around the time that children hit early adolescence, where friends and popular culture begin to make more inroads into a young person's decision making. Still, while parents can't know every single thing that their children are up to, they should definitely be checking up on them to make sure there isn't a problem with drugs & alcohol, bullying, risky sex, violence, etc...

The kid was posing and bragging about the gun on Facebook. Given that the gun was bought on Friday after Thanksgiving, the kid was waving it around on social media, then he took it to school and shot people, I would argue that a reasonable parent should have known that there was something wrong.

Given what we know about the mom, they can argue she was encouraging of the son's attitudes toward firearms. I am sure more will be found.

Sancho

(9,070 posts)
49. People Control, Not Gun Control
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 04:01 PM
Dec 2021

This is my generic response to gun threads where people are shot and killed by the dumb or criminal possession of guns. For the record, I grew up in the South and on military bases. I was taught about firearms as a child, and I grew up hunting, was a member of the NRA, and I still own guns. In the 70’s, I dropped out of the NRA because they become more radical and less interested in safety and training. Some personal experiences where people I know were involved in shootings caused me to realize that anyone could obtain and posses a gun no matter how illogical it was for them to have a gun. Also, easy access to more powerful guns, guns in the hands of children, and guns that weren’t secured are out of control in our society. As such, here’s what I now think ought to be the requirements to possess a gun. I’m not debating the legal language, I just think it’s the reasonable way to stop the shootings. Notice, none of this restricts the type of guns sold. This is aimed at the people who shoot others, because it’s clear that they should never have had a gun.

1.) Anyone in possession of a gun (whether they own it or not) should have a regularly renewed license. If you want to call it a permit, certificate, or something else that's fine.
2.) To get a license, you should have a background check, and be examined by a professional for emotional and mental stability appropriate for gun possession. It might be appropriate to require that examination to be accompanied by references from family, friends, employers, etc. This check is not to subject you to a mental health diagnosis, just check on your superficial and apparent gun-worthyness.
3.) To get the license, you should be required to take a safety course and pass a test appropriate to the type of gun you want to use.
4.) To get a license, you should be over 21. Under 21, you could only use a gun under direct supervision of a licensed person and after obtaining a learner’s license. Your license might be restricted if you have children or criminals or other unsafe people living in your home. (If you want to argue 18 or 25 or some other age, fine. 21 makes sense to me.)
5.) If you possess a gun, you would have to carry a liability insurance policy specifically for gun ownership - and likely you would have to provide proof of appropriate storage, security, and whatever statistical reasons that emerge that would drive the costs and ability to get insurance.
6.) You could not purchase a gun or ammunition without a license, and purchases would have a waiting period.
7.) If you possess a gun without a license, you go to jail, the gun is impounded, and a judge will have to let you go (just like a DUI).
8.) No one should carry an unsecured gun (except in a locked case, unloaded) when outside of home. Guns should be secure when transporting to a shooting event without demonstrating a special need. Their license should indicate training and special carry circumstances beyond recreational shooting (security guard, etc.). If you are carrying your gun while under the influence of drugs or alcohol, you lose your gun and license.
9.) If you buy, sell, give away, or inherit a gun, your license information should be recorded.
10.) If you accidentally discharge your gun, commit a crime, get referred by a mental health professional, are served a restraining order, etc., you should lose your license and guns until reinstated by a serious relicensing process.

Most of you know that a license is no big deal. Besides a driver’s license you need a license to fish, operate a boat, or many other activities. I realize these differ by state, but that is not a reason to let anyone without a bit of sense pack a semiautomatic weapon in public, on the roads, and in schools. I think we need to make it much harder for some people to have guns.

elias7

(4,006 posts)
60. And why do they need guns in the first place?
Sat Dec 4, 2021, 09:51 AM
Dec 2021

People act as if the goalposts have not moved. When I was in college circa 1980ish, there was the coalition to ban handguns. Semi-automatic weapons and other weapons of war did not exist, school shootings did not exist. What right does a citizen have to carry around an AR-15 in public? Seriously, when did that happen?

I would just wish once that a gun humper could finally come out and say that after all this, maybe it’s time to rethink the whole gun thing, that maybe it’s time to ban such ludicrous killing weapons for the greater good of humanity, who have pretty much shown they cannot be trusted with this technology.

Your policy plan is comprehensive and well thought out if we were dealing with handguns and shotguns and the firearms and sensibility you grew up with. I would counter that such weapons as those that exist today do not belong in the hands of private citizens.

struggle4progress

(118,290 posts)
51. Charged with involuntary manslaughter
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 05:50 PM
Dec 2021

James David Dickson
George Hunter
The Detroit News

... McDonald said Ethan Crumbley was with father James when the father bought the Sig Sauer Model SP 2022 9 mm semi-automatic pistol at Acme Shooting Goods in Oxford on Nov. 26.

On Nov. 29, the day before the shooting, a teacher at Oxford High School reported Ethan was searching for ammunition on his phone, she said. The school reached out to Jennifer Crumbley, but never heard back from the parents, the prosecutor said.

Jennifer texted Ethan .. “LOL, I’m not gonna get mad at you, you have to learn to not get caught” ...

After a teacher found a disconcerting note and drawing, the Crumbleys were summoned to the school. But by the time they got there, Ethan had allegedly crossed out some of the notes ...

The note in question featured a drawing of a semi-automatic weapon, McDonald said. It said: “The thoughts won’t stop, help me” ...

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2021/12/03/oxford-high-school-shooting-suspect-parents-prosecutor-charges/8850273002/

struggle4progress

(118,290 posts)
52. Fugitive team searching for parents
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 05:52 PM
Dec 2021

Updated: Dec. 03, 2021, 4:13 p.m.
Published: Dec. 03, 2021, 3:54 p.m.

A fugitive team is searching across the state for the parents of the teen accused in the Oxford High School shooting ...

They were supposed to turn themselves into authorities Friday, Dec. 3 with the help of their attorney, but did not.

Sheriff’s administrators said the attorney on Friday morning said she would make arrangements for their arrest should warrants be issued against them. About noon Friday, Oakland County prosecutors issued warrants for four counts of involuntary manslaughter ...

https://www.mlive.com/news/2021/12/fugitive-team-searching-for-parents-of-alleged-oxford-high-school-shooter.html

struggle4progress

(118,290 posts)
53. Attorney says parents headed back for arraignment
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 05:57 PM
Dec 2021

By Jessica Dupnack and FOX 2 Staff
Published December 3, 2021 2:56PM
Updated 4:22PM

... The Crumbleys were supposed to turn themselves in with their attorney on Friday but they stopped communicating and cooperating with their attorney and are now on the run.

The FBI and US Marshals are assisting with the search.

Evidence ranging from text messages, the purchase of a firearm, and a meeting before the tragedy unfolded all factored into the charges directed toward the parents.

"The parents were the only individuals in the position to know the access to weapons," McDonald said Thursday. The gun "seems to have been just freely available to that individual" ...

https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/be-on-the-lookout-order-issued-for-james-jennifer-crumbley-parents-of-accused-oxford-high-school-shooter

struggle4progress

(118,290 posts)
54. Two attorneys say they are not fleeing
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 06:03 PM
Dec 2021

By Jay Croft, Aya Elamroussi and Steve Almasy, CNN
Updated 4:30 PM ET, Fri December 3, 2021

... authorities said the parents are missing.

But .. two attorneys who say they are representing the couple released a statement that said the Crumbleys had left town for their safety and are returning for an arraignment.

"On Thursday night we contacted the Oakland County prosecutor to discuss this matter and to advise her that James and Jennifer Crumbley would be turning themselves in to be arraigned," the statement from attorneys Shannon Smith and Mariell Lehman said. "Instead of communicating with us, the prosecutor held a press conference to announce charges."
The statement added: "They are not fleeing from law enforcement despite recent comments in media reports" ...

Oakland County Sheriff Michael Bouchard earlier told CNN that law enforcement had not talked with James and Jennifer Crumbley ...

"If they think they are going to get away, they are not" ...

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/03/us/michigan-oxford-high-school-shooting-superintendent-message/index.html

 

packman

(16,296 posts)
55. Outstanding - should be done in all such cases
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 06:16 PM
Dec 2021

Parents have to realize their part/responsibilities in giving a minor a gun

robbob

(3,531 posts)
56. Get ready for bizarro world level coverage of this latest media firestorm
Fri Dec 3, 2021, 08:25 PM
Dec 2021

It is going to be interesting (horrifying? totally predictable?) to see the RW gun nut media figures rushing to defend the right of parents to buy weapons of mass destruction for their obviously trouble teenagers. Will these parents come off as the new heroes to the reThugs in the battle to save the 2nd amendment?

Let’s hope a few more “on the fence” voters will finally be so sickened by the vileness of the GOP that they’ll help vote them out of office. I mean, how can ANY rational parent of teenage kids be ok with what these 2 did? Much less listen to far right media clowns and politicians try to defend them and their “choice”. Buckle up…

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
59. Ironically, had they not run...
Sat Dec 4, 2021, 05:03 AM
Dec 2021

...they may have had a case, barely, of "we didn't know." But by running, it will be used against them in the trial, and it will point toward willful knowledge and willful desire to escape justice. The jury is going to nail them all. Without a doubt.

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