"Oxford officials knew shooting suspect searched online for ammo, made drawings":

[tblue37]

Prosecutor: Oxford officials knew shooting suspect searched online for ammo, made drawings

A high school teacher spotted the teen charged in the Oxford High School shootings searching online during class for ammunition and flagged school officials before the 15-year-old allegedly shot and killed four students, according to Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald.

Snip

The new details raises more questions about what school officials knew about the suspect in the days before the deadly shooting. A teacher was also alarmed on the day of the shooting after finding a note on Ethan Crumbley's desk with the words "the thoughts won't stop" and a drawing of someone who appeared to be shot and bleeding.

Snip

School officials then met with Crumbley and his parents that morning, but sent him back to the classroom without searching his bag, where prosecutors believed he had stored the weapon purchased by his father, the prosecutor said.

The shootings began not long afterward.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2021/12/03/oxford-high-school-shooting-suspect-ethan-crumbley-warning-signs/8853333002/

[WhiskeyGrinder]

1. This kid wrote "help me" the day he shot people. What a failure of response.

[BlackSkimmer]

6. No kidding.

Horrendous.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

11. It's devastating. He's sitting there literally begging for help. And gets nothing.

I understand that doesn't mean he has to shoot people. The more I learn, though, the more I see this kid had the deck heavily stacked against him, with off-ramps from this outcome blocked all along the way. This world is so cruel.

[BlackSkimmer]

12. Yes, I agree.

It’s almost like these parents acting as agents to make this happen. Scary as all hell.

[spike jones]

50. Its almost like they wanted to get rid of him, and arranged for his murder or jail..

[maxsolomon]

19. "Begging" is a subjective interpretation.

He put up some red flags; that's for sure.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

20. "The thoughts won't stop, help me," doesn't seem like something someone would share casually.

I could be wrong, though!

[maxsolomon]

25. Article doesn't quote him saying "help me", does it?

I might have missed it.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

33. Other articles have.

[BlackSkimmer]

60. Yes, it was in many reports today.

The note the teacher saw.

[taxi]

72. I did not realize the level of ineptitude

among the players and not the schools or the system.
This isn't about one thing or another any more than it is about the gun or ammo.
It is interesting how the difficulties within the family that led to the day prior, the day he was breaking the rules by viewing ammo, reached the tipping point.
These difficulties, the problems of the family, are always something that democrats represent and republicans oppose. So of course it isn't about any atrocity in social programs, but maybe about something more right wing.

I believe Ethan is clever and quick to come up with the right answer. If he answer met the criteria [of his mother] in not getting caught, with plausible deniability maybe, or a valid alibi, then he was golden. I believe he ad libed or had used the video game design excuse before too. The teacher did what she could, and up through the counselors. The parents were leaving the school at that moment - maybe the only moment they'll get - and if it wasn't a crime to leave without Ethan then they were gone. Not much more than that, is it?

[yardwork]

17. Seriously. Our mental health care in the U.S. is nonexistent.

Our mythologies don't serve us well, at all.

[Wingus Dingus]

23. Intrusive thoughts, he couldn't stop them, hoped someone

would stop him first before he gave in to his impulse. He probably sat there thinking of the gun in his pack, in complete emotional turmoil--and yet after the meeting, after what should have been his rescue, he finally found his resolve to act. A lot hung in the balance, and instead of being searched and escorted out by officers and given a suspension, it went the other way. Just tragic.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

45. It's heartbreaking.

[Sympthsical]

44. Male schizophrenia may not be a surprise here.

Typically develops in adolescence for males, late teens. 15 is a bit early, but not crazy unusual.

With the info currently on hand, something was up.

The parents' behavior just baffles. I'm waiting for more to come out, but what we've already got is pretty mind-blowing.

[Irish_Dem]

2. I think I heard on TV that the parents insisted the child be sent back to the classroom

after the meeting.

[tblue37]

3. Yeah, and during the shooting his mom texted, "Ethan, don't do it."

After he was caught searching online for ammo the day before the shooting, his mom texted, "LOL I'm not mad at you. You have to learn how to not get caught."

[WhiskeyGrinder]

4. Mom sent the "I'm not mad at you" text.

[tblue37]

9. Corrected. Thanks.

[Irish_Dem]

10. Right, the crime is fine, just don't get caught.

I wonder how the parents of the dead children feel about the LOL text she sent.

[MarcA]

38. The "... not to get caught" remark was the most disturbing

of the many disturbing revelations mentioned.

[boston bean]

5. We're they still at the school when he started shooting?

[BlackSkimmer]

8. No. Apparently the dad headed home from work when he heard news about the shooting.

He went to see if the gun was still there.

[iemanja]

47. No, they had left

The school gave them 48 hours to get the kid into counseling, and they just left him at the school.

[moondust]

7. Re: Searching online for ammo

the day before the shooting.

~
"Jennifer Crumbley exchanged text messages about the incident with her son on that day, stating, quote, 'LOL, I'm not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught.' End quote," McDonald said.
~
https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/03/us/michigan-oxford-high-school-shooting-superintendent-message/index.html

The Trump legacy of normalizing corruption and lawlessness.

[Irish_Dem]

15. A violent, mentally ill son and they bought him a gun and encouraged him to buy ammo.

[maxsolomon]

21. Was the handgun purchased FOR him?

I hadn't seen that.

[LisaL]

26. As a present.

"Jennifer Crumbley referred to the gun as their son's "new Christmas present" in a social media post, McDonald said. She added that the gun was stored unlocked in a drawer in the parents' bedroom."

https://www.npr.org/2021/12/03/1061190344/michigan-school-shooting-parents-oxford-charged

[maxsolomon]

28. He's fucking FOURTEEN.

JFC.

[Effete Snob]

34. Ima guess your high school or junior high didn't have a shooting team

https://4h.unl.edu/shooting-sports/national-rules

[maxsolomon]

36. I went to an Arts High School.

In an inner city neighborhood.

No one had a fucking handgun.

[Progressive Jones]

64. Nope. I grew up in a socially evolved urban setting. Guns were hunters. nt

[Irish_Dem]

29. I thought that is what I heard at the prosecutor's presser.

[luckone]

41. He posted his present on social media in his hand so OK we know the parents were not going to do

anything but why didn’t the school do more . If not an intervention beyond parental meeting(police)there is always suspension to get him out of the school .
That would maybe wake up the parents too he is not coming back until your family gets him help.

Was the whole situation filled with pro gun types + didn’t see this coming .
To lose a child and then hear what occurred before the shooting must add so much anger with the grief . I feel so sorry for them . I want to say this shouldn’t happen again but

[Effete Snob]

24. Prosecutor says gun was taken from parents' bedroom

[LisaL]

27. Mom called the gun a "Christmas present" for the son.

NT

[Effete Snob]

31. Okay, here's a link

https://www.npr.org/2021/12/03/1061190344/michigan-school-shooting-parents-oxford-charged

Jennifer Crumbley referred to the gun as their son's "new Christmas present" in a social media post, McDonald said. She added that the gun was stored unlocked in a drawer in the parents' bedroom.

[Irish_Dem]

32. I thought I heard it said that the gun was purchased for the son.

According to both the parents and son testimony.

[Effete Snob]

35. yup

[Irish_Dem]

37. For god's sake. Makes me ill.

[dalton99a]

13. Very fine people

https://nypost.com/2021/12/03/ethan-crumbleys-parents-had-their-own-run-ins-with-law-in-florida/

Parents of Michigan high school gunman Ethan Crumbley had their own run-ins with law
By Emily Crane and Yaron Steinbuch

According to online records in Duval County, Florida, James and Jennifer Crumbley were charged with DUI on Feb. 12, 2005, pleaded no contest and were fined $652 each.

James was also busted by the Atlantic Beach Police Department for driving with a suspended license and having an improper tag. He paid a fine of more than $200.

A few years earlier in 2003, Jennifer was accused of writing a worthless check for $150, but the misdemeanor case was later dismissed. She committed the same offense in 2004 and was fined $240, according to the records.

Meanwhile, James also got embroiled in legal trouble over child-support payments to his ex-wife, with whom he shares 18-year-old son Eli, Ethan’s half-brother, the Daily Beast reported.

[underpants]

39. They both got DUI's on the same day?

Wow.

[Grins]

76. This appears to point fingers at the school. Don't.

The school was not the problem.

The problem - in this case - was the parents who KNEW WHAT THE SCHOOL KNEW about their son, and still bought that disturbed 15-year old A GUN!

[roamer65]

14. The parents and the kids should get life in prison.

No parole…EVER.

Try the kid as an adult.

[BlackSkimmer]

16. He is being tried as an adult.

But these parents are sick, and every bit as culpable.

[roamer65]

18. +1000

[maxsolomon]

22. Man 2 carries a sentence of 15 years max in MI

The parents will get something, but it won't be 15 years.

[Dial H For Hero]

30. The kid may well , but I doubt very much that involuntary manslaughter charges can result in life

w/o parole.

[tblue37]

42. 15 years is the max, I think.

[roamer65]

43. IF they were all up on murder and IF I were a juror...

And IF we had the DP in Michigan…I’d vote for the DP in each case, WITH ZERO REMORSE.

But we don’t have the DP and they all won’t be up on murder, probably just the kid.

He definitely deserves life w/o parole.

[maxsolomon]

65. You'd sentence a 15 year old child to death?

DU takes all kinds, I suppose.

[roamer65]

75. This one I would.

It is evil.

[brush]

40. They met with kid and parents, didn't search his bag and sent him back to class?

Unbelievable. Those school administrators and the district are going to get sued so bad. That's just so incompetent...to do all that then don't do the obvious things. Send the kid and parents home at least if you don't search his bag.

And suspend him for a week or so to get treatment. I mean the kid left hints all over the place that he was about to explode.

[Squaredeal]

46. Superintendent, principal and social worker should all be looking for new lines of work

N/T

[uponit7771]

52. +1, I was wondering why the hell the school didn't send his ass home for doing all what he did .....

... before the shooting.

The parents aren't the only ones who had responsibility to act

[Lonestarblue]

49. I wonder if they didn't search his bag because of white people syndrome.

Some people have been so conditioned by fake news that only immigrants and black people commit crimes that they assume the best of white people—as on January 6. If you assume that white people don’t commit crimes, why would you search the bag of a kid who has already been reported by teachers and whose parents also most likely presented some disturbed attitudes! Gross neglect by school officials.

[demigoddess]

51. are they legally allowed to search his bag? that would be my question. But they should have sent

him home til approved by a psychiatrist to return to school. When it includes guns and ammo.

[brush]

54. You make a great point...the assumption by some that white people couldn't possibly...

be guilty (see the Rittenhouse verdict).

But what's even worse is, 99 percent of mass murderers are white, and these school administrators are all highly educated people yet they still send the kid back to the classroom.

They won't be charged but they have to live with themselves from now on.

[Crepuscular]

58. ...

I listened to an interview with the Sheriff today, his department had a school resource officer at stationed at the school. He said that due to the searching for ammunition and violent drawing, the school should of included the resource officer in the meeting with the parents and had he been included it is very likely that the officer would have initiated a response protocol which would have precluded the kid from remaining in school that day and that he also would have asked the parents about access to weapons and would have asked to search the kids backpack. If the kid had refused, then the response would have ratcheted up a notch. Very likely this incident could have been prevented, had the proper protocols been observed. School is going to get sued for mega bucks.

[IcyPeas]

48. so many red flags.

[SYFROYH]

53. The school saw the problem but didnt act as if he were a real threat.

They are the professionals in charge.

[iemanja]

55. They did call the parents in that day for an immediate meeting

and insisted that the boy be put in counseling within 48 hrs. The parents then left Ethan at school.

[malaise]

56. That kid should have been searched

before entry the next day

[maxsolomon]

68. It was the day OF the shooting that they drawing was found.

The school knew the family "enjoyed shooting sports" from what Ethan had told them when found searching for ammunition.

At the meeting, the parents never told the school they had just purchased a handgun for their child, never told them he had access to it, didn't search his backpack. Ethan calmly told the school the drawing was "for a video game" he was designing. The parents refused to take him home, insisted he be returned to class, and went back to work.

He opened fire later that day.

[MoonRiver]

57. Those words "the thoughts won't stop" are significant.

That kid could have childhood schizophrenia, and everybody ignored the warning signs.

[LisaL]

59. Thoughts are not the same as voices.

NT

[MoonRiver]

62. If they're in your head they are.

[taxi]

61. Where did he get the ammo?

Was it that easy online?

[maxsolomon]

66. They bought the ammo with the gun, most likely.

And yes, it's that easy.

https://www.ammunitiondepot.com/

[live love laugh]

63. 😢😢😢😢

[BradAllison]

67. The school fucked up too.

No doubt. This thug and his parents should have been trespassed off the property after the meeting.

[maxsolomon]

69. Parents never told the school that the kid had access to firearms.

Didn't tell them they'd just purchased him a semi-automatic handgun.

They were operating in the dark.

[BradAllison]

70. His parents essentially talked them out of punishing him immediately

They got away with a lot. The school needs to answer why.

[maxsolomon]

71. Was the drawing itself punishable? Or the ammo search?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/05/us/michigan-shooting-parents.html

After the student’s parents arrived, school officials asked “specific probing questions” regarding the student’s potential to harm others or himself, Mr. Throne said. His answers, which were confirmed by his parents, led counselors to conclude that he did not intend to hurt anyone, the superintendent said.

“At no time did counselors believe the student might harm others based on his behavior, responses and demeanor, which appeared calm,” wrote Mr. Throne, referring to both meetings.

Counseling was recommended for him, and the parents were told they had 48 hours to seek counseling for their child or the school would contact Children’s Protective Services, Mr. Throne wrote.

“When the parents were asked to take their son home for the day,” he wrote, “they flatly refused and left without their son, apparently to return to work.”

Because their son had no previous disciplinary infractions, “the decision was made he would be returned to the classroom rather than sent home to an empty house.”

Both incidents, the letter said, stayed at the guidance counselor level and were never elevated to the principal’s or assistant principal’s offices.

The counselors made a judgment based on their training and clinical experience, Mr. Throne said, “and did not have all the facts we now know.”

[BradAllison]

73. Sounds like they called the shots

There are plenty of schools who've made that call in the past.

It's amazing to me in a time where kids have been suspended for bringing forks for lunch to school, this kid just got sent back to class.

[maxsolomon]

74. I agree, but I don't know what their rules are.

They didn't elevate it to Asst Principal level.

I'll have to ask my sister about it; she's a High School counselor in Greg Pence's district in Indiana.