My thought about the Crumbleys.

[AngryOldDem]

Last edited Sat Dec 4, 2021, 06:33 PM - Edit history (2)

And maybe it’s been shared by others here somewhere.

Ethan did not do this on his own. This was not the usual “sick kid steals a gun from dad and goes out to kill”. I believe the parents weaponized him — basically the same as if they had strapped a bomb to his body and sent him in to that school. I hope the investigation delves deep into their pasts and their past and current associations because I think there is much more to this tragedy.

As far as I know, a terrorism charge is not on Mr. and Mrs. Crumbley’s rap sheet. I think it should be.


EDIT: Fixed the spelling of these monsters’ names.

[maxsolomon]

8. You're not serious.

They are thoughtless fools who thought guns were toys, and missed every red flag their kid raised. It was not designed.

Another Kneejerk DU reaction.

[BlackSkimmer]

28. Yes.

So many here love a good conspiracy.

[H2O Man]

37. +1

[KPN]

47. Ditto ... +2

[Bernardo de La Paz]

9. Nonsense. . . .nt

[PJMcK]

11. That's a stretch

These parents are simply idiots. They didn’t plan their son’s atrocity, they weapon used the kid.

I don’t think they’re smart enough to plan something this complex.

[Rebl2]

23. Don't think that

was their intention. I am in no way defending them buying a gun for their son though.

[Walleye]

44. I'm just thinking when does gross negligence become intentional

[KPN]

49. Not in this case.

[Walleye]

54. Well I really do not understand the gun loving mentality of course I doubt it now but at the time

Looking into the mother’s eyes in the mug shot just gave me a bad feeling

[ShazzieB]

24. No.

Just no. That's not just a bridge too far, it's every bridge over the Mississippi River too far.

They are the type of people who think guns are cool, so they casually bought their son a gun and proudly taught him to use it.

They are also the type of people who bristle and say, "How dare you suggest that OUR little angel has a 'problem' of any kind!" when their son is caught drawing a disturbing picture of a blood soaked shooting victim.

In addition to the above, they are completely devoid of both intelligence and imagination. If they were capable of plotting anything, they would have plotted a better escape for themselves.

[Walleye]

42. True that is the much more likely scenario. But after seeing that drawing I don't know

[DENVERPOPS]

27. His mother's text

learn how to not get caught says a lot.

The Maggots are already shifting the blame to the teachers and school being at fault...........

[Bourgeois Liberal]

43. Of course the school's at fault!

It should have intervened more forcefully in the situation, right? Tell the parents to take the kid home. Also, check his backpack.
Um no, parents, not schools, know what's best for their kids. We just had an election decided on that issue. Of course, one look at the parents might raise doubts about that.

[panader0]

63. Welcome to DU

The school will be sued.

[58Sunliner]

69. The school official who allowed him to stay at school should be fired.

That person put the whole school at risk. There should have been protocols in place to respond to just such a situation. The police should have been called in.

[taxi]

56. I agree. They are escape artists in that way.

They may have sensed an imminent threat or lurking danger if they stayed at the school too long. So they forged an exit strategy and left. It's the party of personal responsibility type of thing.

[NH Ethylene]

40. Not a doubt in your mind?

This seems exceedingly unlikely to me.

[Walleye]

41. Well I don't necessarily mean they wanted kids killed they just wanted him to shoot

I don’t think they thought it through that far

[Straw Man]

60. Highly unlikely.

It's more probable that they're anti-gubmint wingnuts who aren't going to let any lefty bureaucrats tell them that their disturbed teenager shouldn't be armed. By the way, I haven't heard much talk about the fact that this "Christmas present" that they gave their son was illegal for him to possess, by both state and federal law. There's a whole raft of weapons charges they could be facing in addition to the manslaughter charge.

[jalan48]

2. I wouldn't be surprised if they thought their kid would be viewed as a hero like Rittenhouse,

[AngryOldDem]

3. Their actions since have been truly mindboggling.

That’s why I think they’re in it deeper than just providing the weapon.

[ForgedCrank]

61. There seems to be plenty explanations for

their actions so far. Some are innocent, some are nefarious.
They could just be simple (dumb). Maybe they ran because all of the hyperbole and gossip has promoted a tsunami of death threats against them? Maybe they told him to do it and ran to escape justice? There are too many possibilities, but it's not really mind boggling, we just don't know what is true yet. But I think it's quite a stretch to think they actually sent him to school to shoot the place up. I won't say never, but that is about the lowest on the probability list. If they did, those two would have been in Mexico before the first round even went off.

[Progressive Jones]

68. Yeah, they've got something to hide, and now it's going to come out.

They ran because they know they are headed to prison, even if these charges are brought down
to a lower level.

I have to totally shit on them for running out on their own son the way they did. That alone makes them complete scumbags with no chance of redemption.

[lame54]

5. Then they can meet the Orange God

[fierywoman]

6. My fear also.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

10. Nonsense. Get real. . . . nt

[Bucky]

26. They don't seem like the kind of people who do much planning ahead

[Ocelot II]

4. Hard to say what their actual intent was, if there even was one,

though we may find out before long. At best they were negligent parents who were deeply into guns and gun culture, which their kid naturally picked up on. He may have been abused, and he was clearly disturbed. The combination of parental gun-nuttery and negligent supervision with whatever else fucked this kid up was bound to have bad results one way or another.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

12. +1. The problem was long festering, didn't happen in two weeks after Rittenhouse. . . nt

[maxsolomon]

13. Homicidal thoughts in teens is not that infrequent.

Usually suicidal, but these Rampage Shootings are a similar in that there is an homicidal impulse in teens that can be really powerful and sudden, and the presence of the gun makes it instantly realizable.

My sister has seen multiple teen firearm suicides in her time as a school counselor in rural America, and usually no one had a clue till the trigger was pulled.

Young Crumbley's note was clearly a cry for help.

[KPN]

52. Good observations. They may also just have been in full denial

wanting dearly for their kid to be normal and trying therefore to treat him as normal, trying to make it so. The parent- child relationship can be extremely complex. Who knows at this point.

I’m not theorizing that is the case here. I frankly don’t know much about it other than it was a horrible and obviously avoidable tragedy involving at least poor judgement or gross negligence on the parents’ part.

[Walleye]

55. It does seem like given the circumstances somebody was bound to get shot eventually

[joshcryer]

67. This is my take too.

They were gun nutters who believed the mantra "only criminals use guns criminally." And their son was their little angel who wasn't doing anything wrong trying to buy ammo online on his phone. And that anyone who questioned what their little angel did when it came to his gun fetishism was wrong. That's why they left him at the school that day, after being told their son had red flags, they were like "not my son, fuck them, nothing wrong with gun fetishism." Hell, they probably even liked his drawings of guns and bullets and blood. To "take out the libs."

[hamsterjill]

7. I think the prosecutor is going to pursue a terrorism charge.

And rightfully so. She spoke to Anderson Cooper last night about this in the context as it would relate to all of the students in school that day and the lasting effect it will have on those students.

[Paladin]

14. Agree with you, 100% (nt)

[Hugh_Lebowski]

15. At a minimum they realize that once all the facts are known, relatives give depositions etc

It's going to look very bad for them in terms of culpability.

But I'm going to wait for actual evidence to start thinking they actually tried to set these events in motion.

Not saying it DIDN'T happen, but ... there's not really evidence of it, and there may well never be.

[AngryOldDem]

18. True.

This is just so bizarre. Normally I don’t wear a tin-foil hat. But deserting their kid, withdrawing $4,000 from an ATM, and disabling their phones (per CNN) tells me they were planning to go away for a very long time. Now, I hope that’s true — only behind bars. This case just feels different somehow.

[yardwork]

16. I've been thinking the same.

[Iggo]

17. Dammit! Now I have to add "Crumley" to my dead word list.

Had the same problem with Oscar Pistorius.

[El Supremo]

21. Add Crumbley...

as in crumb bums. That's how it's spelled.

[Iggo]

35. Already there.

[BlackSkimmer]

29. But that's not how it's spelled.

Good luck with that.

[Iggo]

34. I think you missed the point.

I already have it spelled correctly on my dead word list. Then someone comes along and spells it incorrectly and I have to add the incorrectly spelled word to my list as well. Hence the “Dammit!”

(I believe Pistorius had four or five different misspellings. Same with Van Susteren. And for some reason I have several different spellings of Medea on there, though I can’t remember why.)

[BlackSkimmer]

62. Ah, gotcha. All apologies.

This whole thing is so sad to me.

[vlyons]

19. I suspect that Ethan was abused

I have no evidence. I'm just speculating. That kid probably heard over and over and over from one or both parents:

"You're stupid and useless. Can't you do anything right? You'll never amount to anything. Lousy at sports. Can't even make friends." Stuff like that.

[ShazzieB]

25. I hear you.

I fully expect to hear some "interesting" things about their child rearing practices as time goes on.

[AngryOldDem]

38. Well, obviously planning to run out on their kid...

…doesn’t exactly shout “loving parents”, does it? They were obviously more than happy for him to go this alone here. They were not oblivious to his situation.

[dalton99a]

20. Fucked up family

[58Sunliner]

22. Depraved indifference to both the child and the school. Don't know if it meets the legal threshold.

But the note the kid wrote with the drawing was horrific and they ignored it. Sounds like the kid could be a budding schizophrenic. The parents have qualities of a pair of sociopaths. The school admin is liable too. Why wasn't his backpack searched?? Why wasn't he taken out of school by the admin? A drawing of a gun, looking for ammo should have prompted a risk evaluation leading to questions such as-does the boy have access to a gun, where is the gun, has he had experience shooting a gun, etc..WTF???!!!! It should have been obvious that the parents were incompetent at best.

[Bucky]

31. I agree. Looking forward to hearing a number of bad parenting gems to come out.

My money's on Tucker Carlson trying to turn them into martyrs. Something about Gen Z can't take responsibility for anything.

In fact, I expect we'll hear a wide variety of bad takes on this family. Can't wait to see how race, sex, drugs, and religion get dragged into this.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

32. If you are correct, that may be grounds to move the murder charge to juvenile court.

If he's so dependent on the ideas of his parents, how can he be tried as an adult?

I know, we all want the book thrown at the kid and worse, but ...

[DownriverDem]

33. Michigan Law

The prosecutor charged them with what she could. Michigan has been run by repubs off and on for a while. There are both blue and red areas, but it is very pro gun.

[paleotn]

36. They may not have wanted it to specifically go down like this...

but..."there's no reason why our strange, anti-social son with obvious issues shouldn't have his own handgun. It's his constitutional right. Freedum!!!"

[relayerbob]

39. Oh, I think it's beyond that

He's likely been being abused since he was a baby. I agree with all that you have said, but these are very sick people

[70sEraVet]

45. As for the parents' intent/culpability, why a pistol?

They may have been within their legal rights to buy the gun for their son, but why a pistol instead of a hunting rifle? I mean, the purpose of a pistol seems to be shooting PEOPLE. Sure you can shoot at a target, but it just seems like an odd choice for a gift.

[AngryOldDem]

46. It was a semi-automatic.

A Sig Sauer, IIRC. Nobody needs something like that, especially a 15-year-old. That alone speaks volumes.

[arlyellowdog]

50. They cannot according to the news legal expert

Michigan law says a minor can only hold a gun on a driving range under the supervision of an adult. This expert (on WTOP) said Michigan law is why they are the 1st parents charged in a mass school shooting.

[llmart]

51. Yes, and why didn't they wait until Christmas to give it to him if it truly was a gift?

When the kid gets to talking we're going to find out just how screwed up these two are.

[ForgedCrank]

53. There is a range of reasons here

that span the entire spectrum. They may just be flat-out stupid. Could be completely careless, aloof, who knows. As much as I think it's ludicrous, they could even be terrorists. Again, we know little at this point.
There are rumors flying everywhere, and almost all of it is incorrect; we'll find out which eventually. I've even seen stuff floating around about the kid being radicalized against his parents. I don't think we should believe any of it until we see it in a courtroom.
Everyone (meaning that generally) seems to want to use these incidents as leverage, and I find that disturbing to say the least.
At this point, I don't even know if it is appropriate to charge this kid as an adult. He may not be functioning at a normal level, we simply don't know anything as fact yet.
It's really difficult to be patient and allow the system to sort this stuff out in the proper manner, but it's the only fair and reasonable option we have.

[Ocelot II]

57. Exactly right. I think it's fair to say that there was probably some kind of family dysfunction

but beyond that we don't know what motivated any of them, and we won't know until there is a trial or other adjudication, if then. It's too easy to assume things but we shouldn't do that.

[70sEraVet]

58. I agree about the 'charging the kid as an adult'.

Seems like that decision should be made by a judge.

[ForgedCrank]

48. I find this manner of thinking to

be very unsettling.
Some kids are influenced easily, and more often than not, completely against the warnings and coaching from their parents. It is almost as predictable as the sunrise.
Not only do we know little about how this kid was raised, we know almost zero about it.
I'm not going to make any wild judgments until I see this in court and can hear actual facts and evidence because it is completely unreasonable and unfair to do so.

[Patterson]

59. The mom texted him: "Don't do it."

[ThoughtCriminal]

64. Maybe they were hoping the kid would kill himself

Problem child? Parents are tired of dealing with him? Self-destructive messages and pleas for help? Perfect gift.

Far fetched? Well, look at how they abandoned him.

Yeah just speculation, but these are really rotten people.

[Sogo]

65. I had a similar line of thought this morning...

except that I thought they wanted to have the son do something like this so that he'd spend the rest of his life in jail and thus be out of their lives....

[SYFROYH]

66. I'd have to see some evidence for this.

Last edited Sat Dec 4, 2021, 09:47 PM - Edit history (1)

The simple explanation of irresponsible parent gun owners who were in denial about the nature of their troubled kid.

[Rhiannon12866]

70. This wasn't worth an OP, but the other woman who previously had a son by the father weighed in:

Woman who has son with Ethan Crumbley's father describes relationship

A Florida woman who has a son with Ethan Crumbley's father Jason describes their relationship.