Democrats fall flat with 'Latinx' language

[brooklynite]

Politico

As Democrats seek to reach out to Latino voters in a more gender-neutral way, they’ve increasingly begun using the word Latinx, a term that first began to get traction among academics and activists on the left.

But that very effort could be counterproductive in courting those of Latin American descent, according to a new nationwide poll of Hispanic voters.

Only 2 percent of those polled refer to themselves as Latinx, while 68 percent call themselves “Hispanic” and 21 percent favored “Latino” or “Latina” to describe their ethnic background, according to the survey from Bendixen & Amandi International, a top Democratic firm specializing in Latino outreach.

More problematic for Democrats: 40 percent said Latinx bothers or offends them to some degree and 30 percent said they would be less likely to support a politician or organization that uses the term.

Link to tweet

[The Magistrate]

1. I've Always Found 'Hispanic' Works Fine, Sir

[iemanja]

32. Yet that only refers to Spanish speaking people

Not Portuguese, as in Brazilian-Americans.

[The Magistrate]

35. As You Wish

"There are two ways to be a jerk. One is to give offense where none is needed. The other is to take offense where none is intended."

[Hortensis]

47. It's just the definition. As iemanja says.

Latino/a refers to people from Latin American countries. Some people would fall into both groups, but many don't.

Hispanics also include, for example, black, white, and mixed people of Spanish-language backgrounds from Equatorial Guinea and also Asian/Oceanic, white, and mixed Spanish-speakers in former Spanish colonies out those ways.

Of course, they're all self identified, so it's entirely a personal decision. As are ours to ignore or understand the meanings of the labels.

[The Magistrate]

50. This Still Seems All Rather Airy, Ma'am

Is there any reason to believe there is a great problem with persons of Latin American extraction taking deep offense at such a general usage as Hispanic?

Put bluntly, I rather doubt it, though I am sure some academic activists, some of them even of such heritage, could be rounded up to express great umbrage over it if one embarked on a search for offended persons.

[Hortensis]

171. :) No, I'm pretty sure they're all used to others confusing the terms.

But that's not the subject.

Some Latinos/as thought they should have a gender-neutral term, but other Latinos said not interested. Notably, both cultures tend to be conservative overall, and this is this era, so... Big surprise it flopped.

Remember the controversy in the late 1970s when "Ms." for "Mrs." was coming into use? That was also driven by people the term would apply to, in that case women. (NOT the Democratic Party.) But some women rejected to the change and being called "Ms." and hoped to stop it, while some expected it. I dealt with a lot of people for work in those days, and for a while it mattered to know so avoid starting out with a faux pas.

My best guess would that eventually both Latinx and HispanX will come into use. They're functional in the same way Ms. is.

[Sur Zobra]

162. New Mexicans descended from Spanish and Native Americans,

like me, prefer the term Hispanic. When I was in my 20s I refer to myself as Chicano, but I find that Hispanic covers all the bases.

[hlthe2b]

69. Some significant Brazillian populations in Colorado. They are merely referred to as Brazilian

as they are not Portuguese, despite their language--at least by those who know better. Many do live in areas that are more Hispanic-populated, so I'm guessing the few words in common between Portuguese and Spanish gives them a bit of a head-start in integrating within communities, as they learn/improve their use of English... Not sure there is sensitivity when they are mistaken for (or called) "Hispanics," but I'm sure it does happen.

[LeftInTX]

119. Latino and Hispanic are US Census terms

The thing with Latino/Hispanic or whatever, is they represent about 32 countries/ethnicities but like African Americans, Native Americans and Asian-American/Pacific Islanders they are also legally classified as ethnic minority groups. Hence the government needs a catch-all classification

[hlthe2b]

122. I was responding to the concern over Brazilians not being Hispanic with the suggestion that

the term "Hispanic" can not be sufficiently all-inclusive as an ethnic (shared language-based non-gendered term) exclusive of race, because Brazilians are not included (post#32). Thus my response. Hispanic is the preferred term overall of Hispanics if the country of origin is not to be referenced, followed by Latino. This is a very good discussion from December, 2020 in WAPO who looked at this extensively.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/latinx-latinos-unpopular-gender-term/2020/12/18/bf177c5c-3b41-11eb-9276-ae0ca72729be_story.html

[jimfields33]

2. The Hispanic community has spoken.

I don’t use the term. I use Hispanic. I’m glad the term is correct and desired.

[Cracklin Charlie]

12. Yes, me too.

I always found the Latinx moniker a little confusing.

Not wrong, just confused as to who the term was referencing.

[ForgedCrank]

179. Same here. I have no clue

where it originated or why. I don't use LaninX because I don't even know how to apply it properly. I'd probably piss someone off using it wrong knowing my luck. Normally I just call people "hey you" or something, then I don't have to think about this stuff.
I've never met anyone who was offended by calling them Mexican (if they were Mexican of course), Latino or Hispanic.
I did have a co-worker who was called Mexican by another guy at my station (not in an abrasive way, just in general conversation) and the dude got a bit bent about it because he was from Honduras. Apparently they don't associate with Mexicans or something, I don't know the history. But that's the only instance I can think of.

[Cracklin Charlie]

180. I asked about it here, once.

Someone really nice explained that it means of Latin descent, regardless of gender.

If I was a Latin girl, I would want to be called Latina, because that is a beautiful word.

[AncientAndy]

146. Excuse me but HISpanic?

Theirspanic is the preferred gender neutral term.

[GP6971]

147. Welcome to DU! n/t

[The Magistrate]

148. The Carriage Changes Back To a Pumpkin By Midnight, You Know....

[AncientAndy]

152. The rain in Spain stays mainly on the plain.

[The Magistrate]

155. Sin Novedad

[LeftInTX]

158. OMG!! ROFL!!

[CrackityJones75]

3. If that is the issue...

If that is the issue… then good luck with the republican party.

I am done hearing about our message. There is us and there is the republicans. Figure it the fuck out.

[brooklynite]

5. Is that your standard approach to voters?

[CrackityJones75]

10. I am not running for office.

But otherwise at this point… Yeah it is. We get the politicians we deserve. I am at the point where of realizing this country is going to go through some bad and dark times. People in this country are just too god damned stupid to see the obvious right in front of them.The bed has been made. We gonna have to lay in it I am afraid.

Now I will say that I do agree that the latinx is ridiculous. But we fall flat because of it? Come on. I surely hope this is just more of the ridiculously bad press Democrats are getting and not a real issue. If it is and people are not listening to and on board with the democratic platform then yeah…… good luck with the republicans.

[JohnSJ]

14. Thank-you, well said

[jimfields33]

15. Honestly, I think it's important to listen to those it regards

I’d hope we’d listen to any group who finds a word described by them as unwanted. We have plenty of time before elections to scrub that word into the dustbin of history.

[Sympthsical]

18. If you don't respect someone's culture, why would they listen to you?

It's not the most important issue on the table, but it is an issue when you're trying to reach out to people and you're putting an awkward foot forward right from the beginning.

[msfiddlestix]

80. ✔️ ✔️ ✔️ ✔️ ✔️

Agree! All of it.




Damn it to hell. I'm so fed up with the promotion of Politico and their hit jobs (and the rest of the msm) ...

kind of wondering why posting from Politico isn't essentially considered the same as posting from Fox, Newsmax, OAN etc.

Right Wing Smears coming from Right Wing Sources, not a good thing.

[CrackityJones75]

97. Exactly!

We spend so much time chasing our tails because there is a piece somewhere that says we may have offended someone somewhere. All the other side has to do is find someone willing to step up and say it we have a crisis.

[treestar]

52. to unreasonable voters who make things impossible

some will be offended at Latinx. Others will be offended by Latino/a. Who can possibly come to a conclusion on what to use? Is there a poll to at least know the majority?

Further, Latinaox voters aren't a block and are more Republican than we think.

I thought voters cared about bread and butter issues, not this kind of thing?

It seems determined that Democrats just always be wrong and that they must lose in 2022! Why are we doing that?

[cinematicdiversions]

61. Latino voters seem to bit a bit of a block when it comes to people using Latinx however. NT

[treestar]

95. Do they like it or no?

We can just use the preferred term.

[LeftInTX]

120. Only a very small subset and they're mostly gay

It's a term that was developed for transgenders.....

[brush]

175. Don't write off '22 yet. The infrastructure bills could shake things up.

[brush]

4. Latinx is a typical Americanism in its use of a short cut to include both genders...

in written and spoken language but if most Latinos and Latinas don't like it maybe we should stop using it.

[Dorian Gray]

13. Yes

Most I know don’t use it. I’m perplexed why people don’t just use Latin…. Instead of Latinx.

[LeftInTX]

17. Latino is better than Latin. Latino is actually gender encompassing

I think Latinx was originally created for transgender, nonbinary, gender nonconforming.

[Caliman73]

20. Latino is the masculine descriptor

It is gender assigning, not encompassing.

Spanish is a gendered language and Latinx is more popular among younger, typically university type people. It was meant to go against the assigning of gender, common in the language.

I am male, I am Latino. My wife is Latina. Together we are Latino, because the masculine gendered descriptor is used for groups where there is one male.

So, you can have 10 girls and you would say "niñas" but you can have 1000 girls and one boy and you would say, "niños".

[LeftInTX]

27. That's what I meant. Since we're talking about politics and a voting bloc, we would be referring to

a large group of voters which usually consists of both males and females, so it would be "latinos"

If referring to a group of women it would be "latinas"

If referring to a specific individual, then gender is important, but in politics we rarely refer to a single individual when we're talking about a voting bloc.

[Caliman73]

29. But then the question is, "Why Latinos?"

Take my example a bit further. You have 1,000 women (Latinas) and one man (Latino) and they are voting about the free distribution of menstrual products. the 1,000 Latinas vote yes and the 1 Latino votes no.

Headline: "Latinos vote overwhelming yes to free distribution menstrual care products".

[LeftInTX]

51. So what are you proposing for the headline?

[Caliman73]

62. I am proposing nothing for the headline. Just seeing what you think about "gendered language".

You made the claim originally that "Latino" was gender "encompassing", which I guess I should have asked what "encompassing" means.

I grew up with it. It is "normal" for me.

I do not necessarily support Latinx, though I have heard some folks using it (mainly younger people within my heritage). I grew up at the tail end of the Chicano movement so Latino is what I use. When I call my son and daughter, I use "niños" but I also understand that it prioritizes the male gender.

[brush]

106. Non-gender specific is why Latinx was created but if it's unpopular...

Last edited Wed Dec 8, 2021, 01:28 AM - Edit history (2)

among the Latino/Latina community we Dems should give it up. But the fact that I just had to write Latino/Latina shows the need for a non-gender term. I mean were talking English here, not Spanish.

[Caliman73]

116. Agreed.

The politicians need to listen, address their specific audiences how they want to be addressed, and focus on policies and services rather than on specific indicators.

There are some (small numbers, but younger activists) who tend to gravitate to Latinx, but it is not the larger group. Latinos/Hispanics are a large but diverse group. Even among my specific group of Mexicans/Mexican Americans, there is diversity of opinion on what the important issues are. Latinx is not one of them.

Sometimes however, there isn't really a term that can encapsulate a group. It is about listening and not pandering... to anyone. Politicians need to be willing to address serious issues and not focus on buzzwords to show they are "with it".

You can shorten it to Latino(a) or Latino/a.

[brush]

117. Your last sentence works. It's a good suggestion.

[LeftInTX]

151. Mi gente!

It means, "My people"...
It's feminine, but fun!

A man founded La Raza Unida....

Or we could just go retro 70's Chicano and just use La Raza

[eppur_se_muova]

187. Well, the English genderless term is Latin ... but that comes with some historical baggage ...

Last edited Wed Dec 8, 2021, 01:35 AM - Edit history (1)

... which may be why it's not used anymore. Hispanic seems to be the safer choice, and the preferred self-label.

[sir pball]

102. This is why we should all have language classes in high school

I took enough French, and experienced it in my travels, that I'm borderline fluent; I'm also competent in "Espanol de cocina" after over two decades cooking - if you're conversant with a gendered Romance language, you understand the gendering isn't malicious or conformist, it's just...the language. Individuals are gendered, groups are masculine. That's all there is to it

IMO "Latinx" is damn near a White Savior/colonialist attack on an entire fucking language, but that's just like, my opinion, man

[LeftInTX]

113. The thing is Latino and Latina are not even Spanish words. They're also American..LOL

I think the US Census Bureau came up with both Hispanic and Latino..LOL

Latino is short for latinoamericano

But Mexico had a bunch of weird names for people, so they aren't in any position to poke fun of us..





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casta

[brush]

156. See post 4. It's just an Americanism...you know here abbreviations...

and short cuts in language to save time in writing and speaking happen all the time. It's nothing new. AOC, IIRC, LOL, Latinx...it's nothing personal, just a non-gender short cut. It's not a colonialist attack on an entire fucking language. It's American English evolving as languages do.

And BTW, we do live in America and American English is spoken here for the most part. And guess what? The language evolves. Webster's Dictionary puts out a list of new words added to it every year. Latinx is just one example, but if it's unpopular in a large segment of our Democratic Party's constituency, we shouldn't use it.

And it goes both ways. I'm sure you can think of many American English words that have been adapted into Spanish and there's no big outcry from Americans.

[old as dirt]

91. Maybe it's 1000 Colombianas and a single (very happy) Mexicano.

Take my example a bit further. You have 1,000 women (Latinas) and one man (Latino)

[Dorian Gray]

39. I'm sure there are Latino and Latina people

who prefer the LatinX label, but like with most labels, it's best if we let people tell us how they identify. I'll always be respectful of whom i'm talking about. (I said Latin bc as a non-spanish speaking person that's the most anglicized gender neutral word.... for an english speaking population. But I could see why, if it's not the cultural norm, people would resent it, as well.)

When talking in a more generalized way, or when writing, it becomes more complicated. But I do think there is a cultural rejection and/or indifference to LatinX, and it feels as though it's being forced on communities from well meaning but tone deaf activist/academics.

[Dorian Gray]

64. The discussion beyond this post is great

and I want to thank you both for having it.

But this is the point I wanted to address. I am a white american woman, so when I said Latin above, I meant it through my eyes, not Latino/a eyes. I was presuming from a POV similar to mine, as there are complaints that it is a white activism that is pushing LatinX. And I was curious why they couldn't just use Latin, especially as the LatinX seems derived from the Mx address, which, as another poster said, is indicative of a non-binary identity. For people who identify as cis gendered, the X may not feel authentic.

I'm spitballing here and may be way off. I hear you that LatinOs has been the accepted descriptor in the Latin American world, and while it is gendered, it's a word that's understood to encompass both males and females in a plural sense. I've seen some people playing around with Latine, too. I find the whole discussion fascinating.

Sorry for the rambling.

[Cha]

126. I would never use it..

I didn't like it when I saw it in the OP.

[Ace Rothstein]

6. Most I know use Latino(s) to self-describe themselves.

It doesn't bother them that it isn't gender neutral when pluralized. I've never once heard any say Latinx.

[MenloParque]

7. Nope. Latinx was flat out rejected by Mexicans in California.

[dalton99a]

8. It is a silly made up word.

Zero traction among Spanish-speaking people I know

[Amishman]

77. Yup, unwanted and unused by the general public

A term probably invented in an academic setting.

Real change happens bottom up, not top down.

Listen to the people

[Torchlight]

9. Its usage in many parts of Texas is a non-issue.

No one really complains about it (outside of rw radio hosts) and no one really celebrates it either.

Some people use it. Other people don't. And the sun rises and sets as it's ever done around here.

[cadoman]

135. that's good to hear, maybe we just need to have regionality in mind when using the term?

I'd really hate to go back to "Latino/Latina" when Latinx is obviously more inclusive.

Hopefully we are still good to go with a non-gendered term in more progressive regions. With them leading the way we can create broader acceptance and love of the more inclusive term.

[world wide wally]

11. We could also stand to eliminate the term, "neo-liberal" as well.

[brush]

19. That's a tricky term. It's meaning is just about opposite to liberalism.

[Caliman73]

24. That has to do with "classical liberal", which was more an economic idea, than a political ideology.

It can be confusing because of Liberal ideas within the philosophical and political arenas.


Neoliberals are basically free market and privatization supporters who, as opposed to libertarians, want the state to continue to exist to promote markets and privatization.

It is actually more widely used than conservative, neoconservative, and libertarian within economic circles.

[betsuni]

98. Yes, used to put liberals/Democrats in the "Them" category, not progressive, both sides.

People keep insisting the word still means what it used to. It's not used that way anymore.

It has a new meaning same as "progressive" (anti-establishment/righteous/moral) "establishment" (the Democratic Party/corrupt/immoral) "status quo" (money in politics, the Democratic Party is beholden to wealthy donors/corporations, has same economic politics as Republicans). "FDR Democrat" relabels the New Deal as democratic socialism, the true legacy the Democratic Party which the progressives will take back ("transform" ) from the establishment neoliberal capitalist elites. The populist revolution has its own special vocabulary and its own fantasy history.

"Corporate Dems" is the new "neoliberal" insult, but it's still around. Saw it yesterday here.

"The ubiquitous epithet is intended to separate its target -- liberals -- from the values they claim to espouse. By relabeling self-identified liberals as 'neoliberals,' their critics on the left accuse them of betraying the historic liberal cause. Its basic claim is that, from the New Deal through the Great Society, the Democratic Party espoused a set of values defined by, or at the very least consistent with social democracy or socialism. Then, starting in the 1970s, a coterie of neoliberals, hijacked the party and redirected its course toward a brand of social liberalism targeted to elites and hostile to the interests of the poor and the working class."

But it isn't true, the party hasn't move right for the last forty years. A radicalized Republican Party has shifted right. Both siding it presents socialism as the only progressive choice.

"This chart indicates that Democrats have not moved right since the New Deal at all. Indeed, the party has moved somewhat to the left, largely because its conservative Southern wing has disappeared. ... The cause of liberalizing international trade, which left-wing critics have treated as a corporate-friendly Clinton innovation, is one Roosevelt not only supported consistently, but basically invented."

A radicalized Republican Party put both presidents Clinton and Obama in a defensive position, bipartisanship now impossible unlike what both FDR and LBJ had: "It is seductive to attribute these frustrations to tactical mistakes or devious betrayals of party leaders. But it is the political climate that has grown more hostile to Democratic Party economic liberalism. The party's ideological orientation has barely changed. ... The uselessness of 'neoliberalism' as an analytic tool is the very thing that makes it useful as a factional messaging device for the left."

From "How 'Neoliberal' Became the Left's Favorite Insult of Liberals" New York Magazine

[Cuthbert Allgood]

177. You do know that neoliberalism is a specific economic stance, right?

It has a specific meaning.

[Sympthsical]

16. Latinos in my life really, really hate it

They see it as an incursion and appropriation by white people against their language and culture.

In my experience, white people use it more than actual Latinos.

It's a terrible look from white liberals. "Here, let us tell you how to properly express your culture."

It's like they don't even hear themselves.

[brush]

21. See post 4. It's really a typical Americanism but if Hispanics...

don't like it, we Dems should stop using it.

[Sympthsical]

41. This came up in my job

Our workforce in the warehouse and production is roughly 70% Latino. A lot of the corporate literature refers to Hispanics. The workers I spoke with didn't even like that. I'm actually a little surprised by this poll, because most of the people I interact with at work seem to prefer Latino or Latina, and my friends and family definitely prefer it. But this might be a regional thing. In California, it's Latino all the way. But I do recall in the Midwest, Hispanic seemed to be used a lot more.

I mentioned it to corporate, and they kept Hispanic. Maybe that's why. I never asked for the rationale.

[brush]

99. If it's regional that a whole other complexity. But it seems Latinx...

is not the answer anywhere.

[cinematicdiversions]

25. How else are we going to let the Hispanics know we find their culture sexist

and insensitive to non-binary folk

[Sympthsical]

46. I blame machismx

Which I'm pretty sure is a robot boss in Mega Man.

I dunno. Whenever I see Latinx, I always think a shop somewhere in Venice Beach is trying to sell me street wear and skateboards.

[old as dirt]

112. Ha-ha! You win the internet!

How else are we going to let the Hispanics know we find their culture sexist

[ProfessorGAC]

34. Same Here

Two guys at the golf course & a few teachers at one heavily Hispanic school (those teachers are also Hispanic) where I sub have both told me they think it's stupid.

[Sympthsical]

48. Is this in the Midwest?

(I thought I remember you saying Minnesota once).

Now that I'm thinking on it, I think Latino is a very West Coast thing, and Hispanic is more middle America.

It's apropos of nothing. Just a curiosity.

[ProfessorGAC]

75. Illinois

We live in one of the collar counties around 60 miles from Chicago.
Agreed on the Latino/Hispanic thing being likely regional.
The folks I talk to are all from here, but I must have an aura of "liberal" because they bring up things out of the clear blue sky.
The Latinx thing has been covered a few times. I've never brought it up. Not sure why they did.
Nearly all these people are of Mexican descent, so it might be they don't use anything but Mexican/American to refer to themselves.
Not sure about that. But I do know they think Latinx is stupid. It's there description, not mine!

[hlthe2b]

22. I'm not surprised. The machismo associated with many Hispanic men have lead many men

in my area of Colorado to react strongly and quite negatively to it (I was told by both older men and teens that some believe it is actually singling them out as transgendered--which is a problem for many traditionalists in this culture).

I'm more than happy to use the terminology preferred within the culture. I don't believe in trying to force something they don't willingly adopt.

[LeftInTX]

30. It makes about as much sense as "peoplx"

I just made that up..LOL

[Celerity]

36. Chalk and cheese

People is not gendered

Latino and Latina are gendered

I am not advocating for using Latinx btw, as it is a hinderence politically when trying to gain votes in the Hispanic and Portuguese (mostly Brasilian, save for the Northeast US) communities.

[sir pball]

108. Spanish (and French, Italian, and the other Romance tongues) is gendered.

Everything has a gender. Everything - a car, a chair, a gallon of milk, is a "he" or a "she". English is not, a table is an "it". It's just the way things are.

Forcing nongenderism on an entire language is... problematic at best.

[MineralMan]

23. It is used by Anglos who don't actually know any Latinos.

It was invented by Anglos who were trying to avoid gendered adjectives so they wouldn't offend other Anglos who didn't know any Latinos. They don't speak Spanish, so they don't know that Latino is also correct for mixed groups of people. Spanish has three genders for nouns, and the masculine adjective ending is also correct for a mixed group.

Politicians are clueless. It's not that hard to find someone, or several people, in a group to ask how that group wants to be identified. Then, you can use the best available word.

Too many claim to be working "for" ethnic groups, but don't bother to make any significant contact with those groups. Stupid!

[Scrivener7]

26. How did "latinx" become the Democrats' fault? It originated in academia and the Latino

LGBTQ community. Democrats didn't create it. And I haven't seen any using it have you?

Politico is hanging an albatross on our neck that has nothing to do with us.

[LeftInTX]

31. Biden used it

President Joe Biden was widely mocked by conservatives on Twitter for saying that “it’s awful hard … to get Latinx vaccinated as well.”

And he wasn't referring to LBGTQ folks!

[Scrivener7]

45. Ah! A Democrat used the term once! I guess that DOES make it a Democratic creation.

Bring on the thumbscrews, Politico!

[Torchlight]

37. I think there is media that seek out nominal concerns

and then puffs them into full-fledged crises for a few extra advertising bucks. Politico is a great example of this.

Words is the new German ownership company will paywall the site after taking the chair, so maybe its distribution won't be quite as prolific and its content will be more analytical and less editorial than currently.

[CrackityJones75]

100. EXACTLY!

And we are all to happy to wear the stupid thing around our necks too!

[LeftInTX]

132. The head of Texas Dems Texas Hispanic Caucus uses it

She's a hipster type...

I see used among progressive groups such as Jolt and MOVE Texas

https://jolttx.org/

https://movetexas.org/

Link to tweet

?lang=en

Dr Fauci uses it...

It's cringe worthy if you ask me. If LGBT Hipster Latinos want to call themselves Latinx to dethrone themselves of Spanish imperialism, it's their business, but mainstream Latinos do not like it.

My husband thinks it's the stupidest thing ever and he's Mexican-American.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/latinx-latinos-unpopular-gender-term/2020/12/18/bf177c5c-3b41-11eb-9276-ae0ca72729be_story.html
The term “Latinx,” modifying “Latino” and “Latina” to describe people in a gender-inclusive way, has become commonplace — in some quarters. Opponents of transphobia and sexism leaven their social media posts, academic papers and workplace Slack chats with the term. Liberal politicians use it. Civil rights litigators use it. Social scientists use it. Public health experts like Anthony Fauci use it. Merriam-Webster added it to the dictionary in 2018. But the label has not won wide adoption among the 61 million people of Latin American descent living in the United States. Only about 1 in 4 Latinos in the United States are familiar with the term, according to an August Pew Research Center survey. Just 3 percent identify themselves that way. Even politically liberal Latinos aligned with the broad cultural goals of the left are often reluctant to use it.

[Scrivener7]

170. I clicked the first link. "Latino" is used throughout it.

Covid did not originate with Democrats. But some Democrats have Covid. Does that make Covid a Democratic disease?

Hanging "Latinx" on the Democrats is ridiculous.

I don't like the word either, but I'm not going to blame Democrats for it, when it originated elsewhere and the Democrats who use it are doing so in an attempt to be respectful to those who DID originate it.

Also, "hipster"?

[Bucky]

185. It's a trendy academic rebranding of an American ethnic group

Yet that group of people is so diverse that a wholesale rebranding is bound to annoy more people than it pleases. Democrats always blunder into these identity games by mostly listening to academic elites. I don't know of many Latino pols who engage in this rebranding.

[Jose Garcia]

191. The Democratic Party certainly been using it quite a bit:

https://www.google.com/search?q=latinx+site%3Ademocrats.org&lr=&safe=images&as_qdr=all&sxsrf=AOaemvJeH6cL_Hyp3p04i4HCN4cs0MahyQ%3A1639165795521&ei=Y6-zYYPNHviHwbkPhPq48A0&ved=0ahUKEwjDiuC3gNr0AhX4QzABHQQ9Dt4Q4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=latinx+site%3Ademocrats.org&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EANKBAhBGAFKBAhGGABQgQdY7hdg3CJoAXAAeACAAVuIAaEDkgEBNpgBAKABAcABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz

[Aristus]

28. I usually use Latino or Latina, whichever is gender-appropriate, and often just Hispanic.

Growing up in Texas, I heard the term Chicano a lot, but I've never used it myself, thinking it was pejorative.

[Haggard Celine]

56. I'm not sure if Chicano is pejorative, exactly,

but I've only heard Mexicans use it, and only when referring to themselves or other Mexicans. I wouldn't feel comfortable using it, either. It isn't an insult, I don't think, but it assumes a type of familiarity that a casual acquaintance shouldn't use. I don't know if that makes any sense.

It's like in Spanish there are certain ways a person can talk to someone they know well, and then there's a more formal way that a person talks to everyone else. We do it with English in the South. When we're at work we speak more formally, but when we're at home we take a lot of shortcuts. And we can call each other rednecks, but it's not really okay for people who aren't from here to call us rednecks. So maybe it's like that.

[sir pball]

111. It is absolutely not perjorative.

Chicano or Chicana is a chosen identity for many Mexican Americans in the United States.
…
Chicano was widely reclaimed in the 1960s and 1970s to express political empowerment, ethnic solidarity, and pride in being of Indigenous descent (with many using the Nahuatl language as a symbol), diverging from the more assimilationist Mexican American identity.
…
Chicano Movement leaders were influenced by and collaborated with Black Power leaders and activists. Chicano youth in barrios rejected cultural assimilation into whiteness and embraced their identity and worldview as a form of empowerment and resistance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicano

[Behind the Aegis]

33. They should just stop using it.

It is nothing more than a stupid fabricated word in order to allegedly support inclusivity. And, like many things of this nature, it appears it was NOT created by those in the community it addresses. If they were looking for "neutral" or "genderless" options, then they should have consulted speakers of the language and would have found that there are some who use "E". While still not wildly popular, it is more in line with Spanish. So "Latino" or Latina" would become "Latine" and be used to describe a mixed group or an unidentified group and still fall within normal evolution of the Spanish language.

Recently, the French started trying out gender-neutral pronouns and it is going over like a fart in a diving helmet. However, language does evolve, but languages which are heavily reliant on gender are going to have some issues becoming more like Scandinavian languages which use "common" (male, female) or "neuter".

[old as dirt]

90. I haven't seen or heard this, but it would at least make more sense.

I think I could figure out how to actually pronounce it from the spelling.

My spanish is not great, but unlike english, I do expect a word in spanish to actually be pronounced the same way that it is spelled.

Your suggestion does not give me the feeling of scratching ones fingernails on a chalkboard, and it doesn't send shivvers up my spine, as latinx does.

[LeftInTX]

101. It's pronounced Latin X...Like Malcom X

Like in someone who is illiterate and signs their name with an X
Or person X
Or Madam X
Or as in Ex-Latin
Or as in Ex-wife

It's pretty insulting when you think about it...

I asked my husband how feels being a Latin-X...He got a disgusted look on his face, "What's that supposed to mean?"

[old as dirt]

109. Ha-ha!

I had the same discussion yesterday in another thread.

I still maintain that if that's how it is pronounced, then I don't know how to spell it.

I'm having a really hard time taking any of this discussion seriously, since in spanish, I really want the spelling to match the pronunciation.

[iemanja]

121. It's not a Spanish word

It's an Americanized term. It's pronounced Latin-x.

[old as dirt]

181. My wife considers herself a bit of a bruja.

It’s just a part of her culture, and a part of her religion (Roman Catholic).

Does this translate to brujx in English?

I’m trying to understand how you translate other cultures and other religions into English.

[Bucky]

186. So she doesn't say brujx?

😆
Sorry. I joke. But this really seems like a pointless thing to shoot ourselves in the foot over. The survey I saw found 2% of American Latinos/Hispanics prefer the term Latinx, while 60% prefer Hispanic, and 40% say they dislike "Latinx" (opinions running from mildly dislike to feeling insulted by).

This is a discussion with exactly zero upside. We gain nothing by expressing any opinion on any side of this.

[old as dirt]

189. I disagree.

This is a discussion with exactly zero upside.

This thread is a great opportunity for some much needed multicultural comic relief.

In my wife's culture (la cultura afropatiana), "el brujo" refers to a musical instrument from centuries ago.

El brujo en el Patia

[WHITT]

38. Actually

As Democrats seek to reach out to Latino voters in a more gender-neutral way, they’ve increasingly begun using the word Latinx, a term that first began to get traction among academics and activists on the left.

False. It originated with the youth.

Also, the objections are nothing but Carville-speak, and he's repeatedly demonstrated he's out-of-touch and behind-the-curve.

[TwilightZone]

43. "the objections are nothing but Carville-speak"

You might want to read the OP.

"40 percent said Latinx bothers or offends them to some degree"

You really think that 40% of Latinos objecting to the term is just "Carville-speak"? That's a hell of a stretch.

[WHITT]

49. You Might Want To

check the source: Politico.

'Nuff said.

[brooklynite]

54. "Bendixen & Amandi International, a top Democratic firm specializing in Latino outreach."

Ignoring news you don't like is always a solid strategy.

[WHITT]

58. You Keep Tellin' Yourself That

[brooklynite]

83. Would an NBC story make you feel better?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/latinx-can-counterproductive-hispanic-voters-poll-finds-rcna7733

[WHITT]

136. You Need To Check #66

I'm not feeling anything.

You keep repeatedly citing 'Bendixen & Amandi' as the source.

They're not representative.

[Dorian Gray]

169. I live in Brooklyn

one of the most progressive neighborhoods. People use Latinx all the time here. Yet, I also work with kids in the population, and they don't like it. Kids. Not 65 year old men. Kids.

It's not popular. Not in polling. And not on the street.

It's popular in my child's progressive private school, though. It's also popular in the non-profit leadership circles in BK.

This is a HUGE blind spot being foisted on a population of people who don't want it. If we insist upon ourselves, then we will alienate a large group of our electorate.

[WHITT]

172. Exactly WHO

is forcing anyone to utilize the term?

[Dorian Gray]

183. I used a specific word

I said it's being foisted on them. I did not say they were forced to use it. Nobody is being forced to use it. But many are using it despite the wishes of the majority of the community being identified.

[WHITT]

188. Majority?

Nonsense.

This is a fake manufactured issue.

[old as dirt]

59. Why not Politica?...or Politicx?

check the source: Politico

[LeftInTX]

160. Congressman Ruben Gallego

You can ask my husband what he thinks of it...

He goes what F is that??? He's Mexican-American.

How would you like to have an -ex applied to your ethnicity? It's kind of insulting...

ItalianX
AmericanX
PersonX

[treestar]

104. 40% is not a majority

So we are offending a minority and that's a problem for US?

[Sur Zobra]

163. And it is 100% rejected

in my Hispanic family. Sheesh

[FakeNoose]

40. My understanding is that "Latina" is correct when the reference is exclusively female

... however "Latino" is correct when the reference is both male and female... also for male-only references.

Yes? No?

[Elessar Zappa]

44. Yes.

Latino would be used for mixed groups, even if said group is 99 females and 1 male.

[Hortensis]

42. It started WITH LatinX who coined it, and ended with Latinos/Latinas

who rejected it. At least for now. While the RW giant culture wars bonfire is blazing is probably not the best time for the LatinX to launch this effort.

Whatever, I believe respect for our respect is appropriate, along with recognition that absolutely everything that can be will be blamed on and weaponized against Democrats.

[cinematicdiversions]

63. No we should double down like we did with No bail for shoplifters and defund the police.

I swear we write the republican attack ads for them.

[bigtree]

65. no 'we' don't do that

...what we do is get all defensive about phrases and other bullshit that our party NEVER represented.

Shove this phony controversy right back down Politico's throat, and don't give anyone the satisfaction of copping to something a handful of nobodies may or may not have said.

[CrackityJones75]

103. Yes! Exactly!

[bullwinkle428]

53. Sounds like a lot of the highly-paid consultants really aren't all that worthy

of those big bucks, if they're advising our elected representatives that these are the terms they should be using.

[Ms. Toad]

55. Once again, regardless of culture, the male/binary rules!!!

Latinx is a gender neutral way to refer to individuals - including those who may not identify as male or female.

Latinos is male, so it is not gender neutral. Pretending it is gender neutral is the same as pretending a single drop of black blood makes someone black.

Latinas is only used to refer to women. So it is not gender neutral.

Even if you divide the group based on gender, neither word describes those individuals within the population who identify as non-binary or genderqueer.

[hlthe2b]

68. Hispanic is gender-neutral and that is what I am told (in CO, at least) they wish to use.

Given Hispanics in CO are most typically of Mexican and South/Latin American origin, rather than Puerto Rican, Cuban, Spain, or from other regions, I can't say that is the choice for all. But LatinX is met with great disdain here. Those I've worked/spoken with--including teens--feel it is something being forced on them and they resent that. So, the OP has a point.

[Ms. Toad]

79. Although othr posters in this thread

have suggested it is not broad enough.

How do you feel about all of the English speakers who get bent out of shape at being asked to use the singular they, or pronouns such as ze, zir, zem, or to stop using the he as a generic for both genders? It's really the same issue.

[hlthe2b]

87. As I have said previously, I am quite happy to respect the requested terms someone indicates.

I do, however, think that those that think they have the right to demand Hispanic people accept THEIR term (for themselves as part of a Hispanic cultural group) are very very culturally insensitive and frankly condescending. I've done a lot of cross-cultural work around the world in my past decades--nothing incites more than for someone from "outside" to tell them "what is what." Dates back to the attitude of the Western "Great White Hope..." that haunted Americans trying to work collaboratively with populations, including on global public health, for centuries.

Hispanic covers all Spanish-speaking people throughout the world. It is a cultural and ethnic designation and says nothing specific to race. Thus, census and other important data ask for ethnicity and race separately (and self-identified). On this thread, I have seen one person speak to concern over Brazilians being lumped in (which is an issue), who though part of South America, has always been a predominant Portuguese-speaking country. I addressed that upstream, as Colorado has a not insignificant Brazilian population--who frequently do come to live in communities that also have majority Hispanic populations. They, however, are referred to as Brazilian by at least formal state/local agencies and news outlets and those within the populace who know better.

Someone else on this thread pointed out that Latino has long been used in its plural use just as Hispanic has been--meaning it could be applied to mixed-gender and non-gendered groups. I hear a lot of support for that too from the largely Mexican, Central American, and South American-origin populations that reside in the four-corner SW states of Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, and Utah. My understanding is that populations in Southern CA and Texas feel similarly. BTW, the WAPO article I linked down below suggests that as well.

[Ms. Toad]

93. Latino is male (o is male, a is female)

The male is inappropriately used to refer generically to everyone. We've been fighting that battle in English at last since I was a recent college grad in the late 70s. With the greater visibility of non-binary individuals (for whom neither male nor female is appropriate) it is even more important to toss the old male=everyone assumptions that are built into most language.

It is not a matter of me telling Latin American individuals what to do. It is a matter of respecting and supportng the minoriy voices within that population who are saying the same thing about their language that I have said about Englis for decades.

See, e.g.

https://www.hrc.org/magazine/2021-early-fall/latinx-and-proud
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/26895269.2020.1830222?journalCode=wijt21

[old as dirt]

127. Battles? I don't want to fight any battles.

We've been fighting that battle in English

My wife has three machetes under our bed. She uses them for her flower garden. She's Caucana. (or is it Caucanx?)

If she calls herself a latina, I'm not going to disrespect her by purposely mangling her language.

I don't want to end up like that dude at 22:20 in this video.

"If I can't dance, then I don't want to be in your revolution" -- Emma Goldberg.

Danza Colombia: Trayecto Pacífico - 1. Libertad

Costumbres como los rituales de sanación de mal de ojo y espanto nos llevan a aquellos pueblos del margen del río Timbiquí donde aún se conservan hábitos que fueron heredados por generaciones y que tienen su origen en Africa, lugar de donde proviene no solo la raza sino muchos de los conocimientos y tecnologías que hoy hacen parte de nuestra cultura. Lugares como este, alejado y selvático revelan ciertas tradiciones que se han sabido guardar como lo es el baile del Bambuco viejo, una danza que nació entre hombres y mujeres esclavizados en el siglo XVIII en el Cauca y que es madre de muchas danzas del pacífico como lo son el currulao, la bambara o la moña. Sin embargo estas comunidades se ven amenazadas por la explotación minera; de la misma forma que las comunidades que habitan las montañas del norte caucano (Suarez, Buenos Aires) y del sur del valle del río cauca ( Robles, Puerto Tejada, Villa Rica y Santander de Quilichao). Sus habitantes, campesinos y pescadores se liberaron del yugo esclavista gracias al manejo profesional de su machete, técnica de defensa que se llamó la Esgrima y que usaron los hijos de esclavizados para participar en las batallas libertadoras y contribuir con la independencia del país. Hoy estas prácticas se han fusionado con manifestaciones danzarias del pasado como los torbellinos y revelan las maneras del afrocolombiano del siglo XIX. El pasillo, el bambuco viejo, los torbellinos: caucano o de calle, así como los bailes improvisados de las jugas que acompañan los toques campesinos de violín en las verbenas o fiestas de adoración navideñas, nos permiten reconocer un mundo rico en expresiones, que requiere de la danza y el baile para respirar libertad y olvidar las penas; que se enseña de generación en generación y que pervive como testimonio de una raza que siempre ha sido libre de pensamiento, creadora al máxime y alegre a pesar de su dolor.

[Ms. Toad]

142. I didn't say you should change now you refer to her.

Any more than you should refuse to use female pronouns for those who use them.

The point is that many trans-latinx individualsdo claim the "x" designation, and I support them. Just as I support using gender neutral pronouns in English, no matter how much the right wing screams about political correctness gone wild.

[LeftInTX]

165. What's Caucana?

Oh I think I figured it out:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauca_Department

[hlthe2b]

168. Indeed it is just that--your wanting to tell milllions of culturally distinct people how they should

be referred. If they wish to be called "Hispanic" or "Latino" or "Latine"--given X does not translate, that should be respected. And no, "Latino" can also refer to a mixed-gender group in its plural use--as well as in the singular male form-- (both in Spanish and English) as it has for more than a century for such designations.

One does non-gendered, non-binary, and trans people no favors by making them the target of anger from their own wider ethnic group by forcing a group name that is not acceptable to all and does not work within their own language. So, yes, it is disrespectful and harmful to do so. That is not how one fosters more acceptance and inclusivism--quite the contrary.

[Ms. Toad]

173. No.

As part of a large LGBT community - which includes self-identified latinx individuals - I am supporting their desire not to be forced into a gender binary. If they ask me to use a different term, I will.

You do realize that your arguments suggesting we not support these individuals because we are making them the target of anger from the wider community are the exact same arguments leveled in anglo communities at LGBT individuals and allies when whenwe first started expressly sharing our own pronouns, asking that we not use the male as generic, etc., don't you?

[hlthe2b]

174. okay....

As non-Hispanic, it isn't up to me or you or most here, but we do owe it to ALL to be respectful. That a non-gendered inclusive term like Hispanic (or Latinos or"Latine" ) has been accepted throughout the community--(including as per the WAPO article link I and Celerity posted now three times) and per recent polling, including by the majority of the nonbinary community as well, is at issue.

To tell an entire population that you don't accept their chosen way to refer to themselves when it has been largely accepted by both the gendered and non-gendered/nonbinary community as well is really problematic and some might say incredibly patronizing. This isn't mere political expediency, it is respect for all.

Why divide when the full community has largely already expressed support for one or more common existing (and one new) terms?

[hlthe2b]

92. I think you might find this WAPO article from 2020 interesting. It is paywalled, but

if you are interested and can't access it, I'll copy it for you via DU mail.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/latinx-latinos-unpopular-gender-term/2020/12/18/bf177c5c-3b41-11eb-9276-ae0ca72729be_story.html

[Ms. Toad]

94. The article does not raise the voices of trans/non-binary voices

It talks about them.

I find many of the alternative English pronouns jarring, as well, and often struggle with how to use/pronounce them. And others often speak disdainfully about how they haven't caught on.

In Spanish, as it does in English, the choice to honor terms used/chosen by trans/queer/non-binary individuals may offend the majority. That isn't a reason not to honor their choice.

[hlthe2b]

96. Were you able to access the full article? Because an alternative was discussed

"Latine" The issue with "X" not being realized in the Spanish language IS an issue.

I really hate that non-Latino English-speakers seem to be driving this. It needs to come from the Hispanic community, including from its non-gendered and trans community, if changes are to be made.

[Celerity]

131. non paywalled link

https://archive.ph/2l5J2


from this site

https://archive.ph/

[hlthe2b]

167. thanks, Celerity

[Zeitghost]

74. Latino is gender neutral depending on context

Last edited Mon Dec 6, 2021, 09:42 PM - Edit history (1)

Non-native Spanish speakers trying to change the Spanish language because they are insulted by Spanish grammar is in itself, highly insulting.

[Ms. Toad]

78. Latino is no more gender neutral than the use of generic "he" in English.

[Zeitghost]

81. It's the proper term

For gender neutral or mixed gender use in the Spanish language. Can you understand how white english speaking people trying to change the Spanish language is a bit insulting to Spanish speakers? It reeks of white/anglo privilege and supremacy.

[Ms. Toad]

84. It reeks of binary/male privilege

to pretend women and non-binary individuals don't exist or are erased by the presence of a single male.

This is the same as using the generic he to refer to any group of people if there is even a single male present, regardless of how overwhelming the female (or non-binary) presence is.

This is a matter of recognizing a historically erased/discriminated against minority, regardless of the cultural group in which it is embedded.

I assume you think we should just turn a blind eye to genital mutilation, as well, to avoid the appearance of white/anglo privilege and supremacy?

[Zeitghost]

129. You are aware that many Latinos find it insulting

You are aware that many Latinos find it insulting, there are some in this very thread. That you continue to support it with this knowledge says a lot.


You can't try to change the way entire languages are spoken to score woke white political points online without looking bad. That you would equate the use of gendered nouns in the latin languages to genital mutilation is even worse. It makes you come off as... out of touch...


Have a great night, I'll retire to the bedroom and enjoy the company of "mis gatxs" (that is how you would prefer me to refer to my cats in Spanish yes? ).

[Ms. Toad]

141. I am aware of how the trans latinx individuals Iknow view it.

and I support their right not to be misgendered.

Just as I support the right of trans individuals (and women) who prefer not to be misgendered or referred to by the generic "he" in English - regardless of how offensive some Englsh speakers find it.

Whenever the minority in any culture raise their voices for change, it often makes the majority in that community uncomforable.

[old as dirt]

118. Should my wife call herself a negrx instead of a negra?

Latinos is male, so it is not gender neutral. Pretending it is gender neutral is the same as pretending a single drop of black blood makes someone black.

If this becomes a trend, it's going to get very silly very fast.

Should I call myself a gringx instead of a gringo?

[Ms. Toad]

144. It would be a little silly if she identifies as female.

In English the he/his and she/her pronouns have not vanished just becase individuals now use different pronouns.

The point is that there are indivduals who choose to use ths "x" rather than the "o" or "a." And it matters not a whit whether you (or the majority of the population) like it or not - any more than it matters whether you like the singular they when someone chooses to use it (or ze/zir).

AND - just as it is offensive to use the generic male (-men as a suffix), there are women and non-binary indviduals who find it offensive to be referrred to in mixed-gender groups by a word with an -os suffix.

It's pretty recent history that women have largely been successful in eliminating the generic "he" in English. And for a long time the headline on that transition could easily have read, "Democrats fall flat with "person" language.

[Bucky]

184. The point is, don't be a pendejx

[tishaLA]

57. I'm sure part of this is regional and age-related

In Los Angeles, most people call themselves Latino/Latina rather than "Hispanic" and many do it because of the relationship between "Hispanic" and colonization. Those who still say Hispanic tend to be older, but quite often people also refer to themselves as Mexican, Salvadoran, or Guatemalan.

I'd always avoided using "Latinx" until a few years ago when a Latina student asked me to use it as a way of recognizing and respecting non-binary people of Latin descent. At my university, most instructors and many if not most students use it. And it seems to be that it's an impossible double bind: I can choose to offend people of Latin descent who hate the term Latinx or I can offend non-binary people of Latin descent and their supporters.

[bigtree]

60. good thing the term didn't originate with them

...and this article doesn't even bother to point to Democrats (other than this strategist no one's heard of) who insist on using it.

It just wags its biased finger at Democrats.

Why is this so accusatory at Democrats? Who 'fell flat?'

What a load. I'd consider the source.

[WHITT]

66. Eh

'Bendixen & Amandi' are CUBAN and CORPORATE.

As in Miami-based anti-Cuban government, and anti-Latinx.

Once again, consider your sources.

[TheFarseer]

67. I never had any idea what was wrong with

Latino and Latina. Some liberals need to quit being insulted on behalf of other people.

[senseandsensibility]

70. I agree that it's stupid and tone deaf

if you know anything about Hispanic culture. For God's sake, put some Hispanics in charge of messaging to this extremely important segment of our base.

[Tomconroy]

71. As a general rule, I think it's polite to refer to a group the way they

like a to refer to themselves.

[senseandsensibility]

72. Yes!

That's the bottom line.

[Tomconroy]

73. My wife would adore your screen name!

[treestar]

107. Suppose they don't agree

amongst themselves? How would such a large group agree to a person?

[muriel_volestrangler]

76. Can I check on the pronunciation?

'Latincks', or 'Latin-ex'? If the latter, it sounds like someone who use to be your Latin lover.

(To be clear, I'm in the UK, and I don't think I've ever heard either said)

[LeftInTX]

157. Yep...Latin-X

As an ex- lover

Or if you are Latino it sounds like you are an ex-Latino...which sounds awful....

[ismnotwasm]

82. That word has been soundly rejected for a year or so now

What the fuck and how the hell are “Democrats” involved?

[MustLoveBeagles]

123. That's what I want to know

[LiberatedUSA]

85. Simple question.

Who came up with Latinx? Was it minorities or whites that feel guilty about themselves?

[old as dirt]

86. My wife uses Gringa and Gringo. Should she use Gringx?

Colombiana and Colombiano. Should she use Colombianx?

Caucana and Caucano. Should she use Caucanx?

Negra and Negro. Should she use Negrx?

Afropatiana and Afropatiano. Should she use Afropatianx?

[LeftInTX]

130. LOL LOL LOL

[Hekate]

153. Gringx is way too close to Gingrich, as in Newt. I reject all Newts!

[RFCalifornia]

88. It all depends on the person

I know older Latinos who abhor the term

I know a trans Latinx who loves the term

[DenaliDemocrat]

89. I live in the Southwest with a large

Mexican-American population. Everyone of Mexican descent I know think Latinx is stupid.

[jalan48]

105. Are these the same folks that came up with "Build Back Better?"

[LeftInTX]

110. No...It's been around for awhile

It's mostly a transgender, non-binary thing......

I think they originally gave the name to some transgenders in Mexico

[jalan48]

114. Thanks for the info. Maybe the Dems responsible thought it would catch on here.

[CrackityJones75]

115. So we should all go back to....

Calling all police officers Policemen and all mail carriers mailmen etc….

[iemanja]

124. It's the dominant term in academia

which is to say it's probably a bad idea.

One commonly sees Latino/a/x.

I hadn't realized it was so unpopular.

[mshasta]

125. to me is a ridiculous word

I don't know wtf is latinx....only white people...who told them to keep insulting us

[tenderfoot]

128. I am so sick of your Dem bashing posts

[Bucky]

190. I don't think he's trying to be a pendejx about it

I think it's healthy to have a dialogue on how people xritixise the party

[Celerity]

133. Origins

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx

The first records of the term Latinx appear in the 21st century, but there is no certainty as to its first occurrence. According to Google Trends, it was first seen online in 2004, and first appeared in academic literature "in a Puerto Rican psychological periodical to challenge the gender binaries encoded in the Spanish language." Contrarily, it has been claimed that usage of the term "started in online chat rooms and listservs in the 1990s" and that its first appearance in academic literature was in the "Fall 2004 volume of the journal Feministas Unidas". In the U.S. it was first used in activist and LGBT circles as a way to expand on earlier attempts at gender-inclusive forms of the grammatically masculine Latino, such as Latino/a and Latin@. Between 2004 and 2014, Latinx did not attain broad usage or attention.

Use of x to expand language can be traced to the word Chicano, which had an x added to the front of the word, making it Xicano. Scholars have identified this shift as part of the movement to empower people of Mexican origin in the U.S. and also as a means of emphasizing that the origins of the letter X and term Chicano are linked to the Indigenous Nahuatl language. The x has also been added to the end of the term Chicano, making it Chicanx. An example of this occurred at Columbia University where students changed their student group name from "Chicano Caucus" to "Chicanx Caucus".

Later Columbia University changed the name of Latino Heritage Month to Latinx Hispanic Heritage Month. Salinas and Lozano (2017) state that the term is influenced by Mexican indigenous communities that have a third gender role, such as Juchitán de Zaragoza, Oaxaca (see also: Gender system § Juchitán, Oaxaca, Mexico). The term often refers specifically to LGBT people or to young people. Brian Latimer, a producer at MSNBC who identifies as nonbinary, says that the application of the term "shows a generational divide in the Hispanic community". In 2016, a student newspaper described the term as "[having] been sweeping across college campuses in the [United States]".

snip





The Complexity of the “x” in Latinx : How Latinx/a/o Students Relate to, Identify With, and Understand the Term Latinx

January 2020
Journal of Hispanic Higher Education

Authors:
Cristobal Salinas Jr
Florida Atlantic University

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/338551331_The_Complexity_of_the_x_in_Latinx_How_Latinxao_Students_Relate_to_Identify_With_and_Understand_the_Term_Latinx

Abstract

The usage of term Latinx has gained popularity in higher education settings. This study documents how 34 Latinx/a/o students relate to, identify with, and understand the term Latinx. Participants perceive higher education as a privileged space where they use the term Latinx. Once they return to their communities, they do not use the term. Due to the variations in understandings of the term, the author contends that one should consider using the term Latin*.

Resumen

El uso del termino Latinx ha ganado popularidad en ambientes de educación superior. Este estudio documenta cómo 34 estudiantes Latinx/a/o se relacionan, identifican, y entienden el término Latinx. Participantes percibían educación superior como un espacio privilegiado donde ellos usaban el término Latinx. Una vez que regresaban a sus comunidades, no usaban el término. Debido a las variaciones del entendimiento del término, el autor recomienda usar el término Latin*.

[MerryBlooms]

134. Thanks for sharing this information. I had just

Read the same, seeking to educate myself.

My neighbor's home and ours, survived the Almeda fire. I remember the first time we saw each other after most of our park was destroyed. We were at the little market close to park. He was buying beer, and I was buying wine. We held each other long and laughed through tears. He and his family are from Mexico. He doesn't speak much English, and my Spanish is horrible, but he and I laugh at my lame attempts (I am improving), and he gives me a thumbs up. Lol

I never gave a thought to labels, he and his family are my neighbors, and we love each other. I wish people would concentrate less on labels, and more on getting to know those people they wish to label.

Naive of me maybe... But I am thinking we need fewer labels, not more.

[WHITT]

137. Just A Reminder

Wikipedia is merely OPINION.

[Celerity]

139. it many cases it isn't 'merely opinion', especially an article as footnoted & documented as this one

Wikipedia has a very regimented editing system that is self-policed to a high degree after 2 decades of it evolving.

I also provided an additional peer-reviewed academic article.

[WHITT]

150. HEH

That's a lot of exceptions.

Co-founder Wales admitted in a video interview that it's opinion.

As to a "very regimented editing system", that would be news to entries that go back and forth like a game of ping pong, and make different claims depending upon which day you check-in.

As I posted, just a reminder.

[Celerity]

154. No.

The major thematics in that article are backed up with solid, linked sources.

If you think there is something amiss, then by all means post it, along with evidence that backs up your positing, and we can discuss the merits of your claim.

[WHITT]

159. Swing And A Miss

I've already pointed out the OP is bogus, based upon a Cuban and Corporate source, so there is no additional argument necessitated.

I merely posted, as a reminder, that it's well documented that wikipedia is opinion, and not reliable.

[Celerity]

161. No. All you are posting is drive-by, pretty much content free FUD replies, containing no specificity

as to what part I posted that you are disputing on an factual basis.

Furthermore you are misapplying the term opinion to an etymological treatment, as well as trying to sow diminution and FUD with that incorrect framing.

You also again have (wilfully it would now seem) ignored the peer-reviewed academic article I posted. I suppose you will call that paper an 'opinion' as well.

Most of the Wikipedia entry is butressed with a solid foundation of documented sources.

Oh, and finally, I might add, all this was done with a soupçon of condescending snark kicking it off, with you initially implying I am somehow in need of reminding.

Done here, I refuse to have a colloquy given the lack of good faith.

[WHITT]

164. Eh

My responses contained "no specificity" because I wasn't addressing your content, merely pointing out, once again, that wikipedia, according to it's co-founder, is opinion, and therefore unreliable.

Your content and/or point may well have merit, I don't know, as I didn't review it, as it wasn't relative to the issue that was already debunked.

[LeftInTX]

138. Oh thanks...I remember reading something about Oaxaca and this years ago

But without the name of the town or term used to describe them, I wasn't able to find a reference

https://nhm.org/stories/beyond-gender-indigenous-perspectives-muxe

https://www.worldnomads.com/explore/north-america/mexico/the-muxes-of-juchitan-de-zaragoza

https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20181125-the-third-gender-of-southern-mexico

India also has a third gender.

[Celerity]

140. Politico reporter backs down after facing Twitter storm for sexist Kamala Harris post (OP co-author)

Marc Caputo retweet a photo of a stripper meme with a comment referring to the VP and the minimum wage legislation

https://www.salon.com/2021/02/27/politico-reporter-backs-down-after-facing-twitter-storm-for-sexist-kamala-harris-post_partner/

APolitico reporter has expressed deep regret after facing heightened criticism on Twitter for a tweeted insult toward Vice President Kamala Harris.

According to Mediaite, after spending hours on the social network defending himself, Politico reporter Marc Caputo conceded and apologized for the insulting meme. On Friday, Feb. 26, Caputo sparked a heated debate after retweeting a meme from a now-deactivated Twitter account with a post that featured a picture of a stripper and a caption that read, "Kamala Harris on the Senate's $15/hour minimum wage legislation."

Caputo retweeted the post with a caption that read, "Sitting."

Link to tweet

Although Caputo has removed the tweet, screenshots continue to circulate on the social network. It also did not take long for Twitter users to fire back at the reporter.

According to the publication, the theme behind the meme centers on "progressive critics' idea that VP Harris can unilaterally decide the fate of the $15 an hour minimum wage provision that will likely be stripped from the Senate version of the Covid relief package on procedural grounds."

Despite the initial tweets firing back at Caputo's post, he initially attempted to defend himself, the publication reports. One Twitter user named Michelle B. Young wrote, "I'm glad you think misogynoir is funny you lowlife." In a now-deleted tweet, Caputo replied, "1) that's not this. 2) who intentionally follows a "low life"?"

snip

[Hekate]

143. Gustavo Arrellano, one of the LA Times excellent columnists, commented on the use of "woke" ...

… and I think “Latinx” as well, a couple of months ago. He said the general term among older adults for the youngsters who use this very up to the minute terminology was “wokoso,” a portmanteau word combining “woke” and the ending of a Spanish word loosely meaning “snot nosed brat.”

And that’s a problem right there. It’s not a word ordinary people ever used. As the OP quotes, “ As Democrats seek to reach out to Latino voters in a more gender-neutral way, they’ve increasingly begun using the word Latinx, a term that first began to get traction among academics and activists on the left. ”

Latino and Latina were combined years ago as Latino/a, which is already awkward, but at least uses two words common to everyone. And last I heard (bearing in mind I am now an old out-of-date person who has to check the ethnicity box as “white, non-Hispanic”) people’s personal preference for “Latino” or “Hispanic” depended on original ancestry and US geographical location. Cubans are not Mexicans and Central Americans are not South Americans, and their dispersal in the US is not even. I thought Californians were more for Latino/a than for Hispanic, but now I think I’ll wait for Mr Arrellanos’ next linguistic installment.

Ruben Gallego is trying to tell us something. We should probably listen.

[LeftInTX]

145. Philosophical descendants of armchair Aztecs

I met this woman who was really into this native-american cosplay stuff and she told me she could speak the language that they spoke around here when the Spanish came. I think she claimed to be Tāp Pīlam..(It doesn't really matter because everyone here is a mix of Native Americans anyway and it's always refreshing to hear that someone is a local Native American. Local Native-Americans were forced into missions and married into numerous tribes and lost their identities pretty early on)

She whips out a Nahuatl language book...

I say, "They didn't speak that here. We didn't have Aztecs in the US"...

At least be honest. Either say you don't know the language spoken here, but you know some Aztec instead. But no she insisted that Aztecs lived in Texas. They never did. Native Americans here spoke a dialect of Coahuiltecan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coahuiltecan_languages

Link to tweet

?lang=en

Fortunately, the Democratic establishment seems to understand that "woke" is more of slang term for and that we have much better terminology for racial justice.

[Hekate]

149. You just made me laugh out loud, something I seldom find occasion to do. Wokosxs -- omg roflmao

Thank you, thank you. (wipes tears from eyes)

[alphafemale]

166. Maybe stop with the practice of labels on people that make us comfortable.

Ask them.

[Paladin]

178. Clumsy-sounding word, rejected by a majority of a voting base we really need.

We need to ditch it. "Latino" or Hispanic" work for me--whatever motivates the most people to vote for us.

[radius777]

192. AFAIK, progressive Latinas came up with the term,

as the term Latino is male gendered. I understand their objection but the term Latinx is clumsy and not accepted by Latinos.

Eh, I really don't think this is the main issue with our declining numbers with them, but more that many Latinos are far more conservative than people realize. The lockdowns and also the border situation directly them economically as well.

Dems biggest weakness is the border, as it only helps us lose support across the board with all groups including PoC voters.

[11 Bravo]

193. We wouldn't be Dems if we didn't repeatedly hand the Repukes a two-by-four ...

to beat us over the fucking head with.