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samsingh

(17,599 posts)
Tue Dec 7, 2021, 12:16 PM Dec 2021

I think any country in the world could expect more from Russia as an ally than us

that is the sad place we are in today.

With the impending theft of our Democracy and the slow response from our leaders to hold the republican traitors to account, why would anyone trust our government to be consistent and trustworthy?

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I think any country in the world could expect more from Russia as an ally than us (Original Post) samsingh Dec 2021 OP
We've also lost the moral high ground. The US is a dangerous, sad, three ring circus. Irish_Dem Dec 2021 #1
Pretty much Putin and RT's playbook right there. BannonsLiver Dec 2021 #3
Exactly, how can we criticize Russia or China. Irish_Dem Dec 2021 #5
Da. BannonsLiver Dec 2021 #12
No I am not. I hate Putin with a passion. Irish_Dem Dec 2021 #14
Really? As WE host the Democracy Summit this week? Hortensis Dec 2021 #22
They haven't been our ally since 1944. BannonsLiver Dec 2021 #2
I think OP meant, nations allied with Russia have a better chance of support than if allied with ShazamIam Dec 2021 #6
Thanks for the clarification BannonsLiver Dec 2021 #7
I think the OP is saying that other countries would consider Russia more of an ally than the US. Irish_Dem Dec 2021 #9
Da. BannonsLiver Dec 2021 #11
Wow this take might exceed "NK is better than baltimore" in the annals of bad DU takes nt mathematic Dec 2021 #4
Are you saying Putin's more trustworthy? Elessar Zappa Dec 2021 #8
Putin talking points. BannonsLiver Dec 2021 #10
Come again? nt Tommy Carcetti Dec 2021 #13
I think other countries know full well who to trust and who not to trust. Baked Potato Dec 2021 #15
yes, let's ask the Yazdi's in Syria for one samsingh Dec 2021 #16
T***p screwed that one bad. But, we have a presence there to help. Baked Potato Dec 2021 #18
This is Russia and China is who we're taliking about here pecosbob Dec 2021 #17
:) No kidding! Most nations are eager to desperate to have the old U.S. Hortensis Dec 2021 #19
In a cell with a black bag over your head it doesn't really matter if it's left-wing or right-wing pecosbob Dec 2021 #20
For sure. As many millions of unfortunates have learned. nt Hortensis Dec 2021 #21

Irish_Dem

(47,131 posts)
1. We've also lost the moral high ground. The US is a dangerous, sad, three ring circus.
Tue Dec 7, 2021, 12:27 PM
Dec 2021

Gun violence, lack of civil rights for POC, rampant racism, treatment of women, white minority rule.
Lack of a basic safety net for all Americans. Healthcare, prescription drugs.
Lack of voting rights, loss of democracy. Inconsistant and corrupt leadership.

A big chunk of Americans are no longer in contact with reality, but instead harbor dangerous delusions.

The list goes on and on.

BannonsLiver

(16,396 posts)
3. Pretty much Putin and RT's playbook right there.
Tue Dec 7, 2021, 12:52 PM
Dec 2021

America is bad, therefore America has no right to criticize Russia while they do very bad things.

Irish_Dem

(47,131 posts)
5. Exactly, how can we criticize Russia or China.
Tue Dec 7, 2021, 12:57 PM
Dec 2021

Our human rights record is awful and we have invaded other countries illegally.
Our leadership is corrupt and we are heading for autocratic rule.

Putin took our weaknesses and expanded them greatly.

The old Roman war tactic of "divide and conquer."

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
22. Really? As WE host the Democracy Summit this week?
Tue Dec 7, 2021, 05:10 PM
Dec 2021

Neither Russia nor China is participating in this celebration and support of government OF, BY AND FOR THE PEOPLE.

And if these authoritarian dictators tried to, their presence would undermine and dishonor the concept.

ShazamIam

(2,575 posts)
6. I think OP meant, nations allied with Russia have a better chance of support than if allied with
Tue Dec 7, 2021, 12:57 PM
Dec 2021

the U.S. That we have not as a nation lived the ideals we sold.


Baked Potato

(7,733 posts)
15. I think other countries know full well who to trust and who not to trust.
Tue Dec 7, 2021, 02:56 PM
Dec 2021

Russia is not a very attractive ally.

Baked Potato

(7,733 posts)
18. T***p screwed that one bad. But, we have a presence there to help.
Tue Dec 7, 2021, 03:54 PM
Dec 2021

As of 2021, the United States maintains roughly 900 troops in Syria, with the majority deployed in the ESSA in support of SDF counter-IS operations. Roughly, 100 U.S. personnel are based at the At Tanf garrison in southeast Syria, where they support a local partner force.

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF11930

pecosbob

(7,541 posts)
17. This is Russia and China is who we're taliking about here
Tue Dec 7, 2021, 03:21 PM
Dec 2021

Do other nations trust Russia or China to be more consistent and trustworthy than the U.S.? I think not.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
19. :) No kidding! Most nations are eager to desperate to have the old U.S.
Tue Dec 7, 2021, 04:35 PM
Dec 2021

back, but can't trust that America's populist/authoritarian right AND left won't turn the nation over to extremists again.

Congress is on the block in less than a year now. There are far fewer illiberal populists on the left than right, but united with the right they were enough to throw the whole planet under the bus once and tomorrow's could be again. Putin worked to make that happen, for obvious reasons.

Btw, a large study since then confirmed that LW authoritarianism is real and more of a factor than previously measured, though less numerous and probably less virulent than RW. Further studies underway as the planet reels from RW/LW authoritarian attacks in many nations.

I was sure before this that we were seeing it, though. Notably, in 2016, 12% of the 43% who voted for the LW populist/socialist/progressive leader in the primary pivoted to vote for the RW fascistic, white nationalist populist leader in the GE. The from-Sanders-direct-to-tRump group was about 5% of those who voted in the Democratic primary. Things got a lot more decent and responsible on the left once they decamped to tRump.

(Another 12-13% voted third party, and very likely some among them were drawn to authoritarianism but couldn't stomach tRump. Also keeping in mind the 100,000,000 adults who didn't vote at all. Should be a fair number of authoritarian-leaning duds in that group. (Please, let no one excite them.)

Because turns out LW authoriarians are "extremely similar" to RW authoritarians, just as LW and RW populists are extremely similar, with strong overlap between the two studied types. Including their shared reason-for-being antipathy to Democrats.

Left-wing authoritarians share key psychological traits with far right, Emory study finds

... Right-wing authoritarians tend to aggressively back the established hierarchy, while left-wing authoritarians tend to aggressively oppose it. They are almost like mirror images of one another that both share a common psychological core, the researchers conclude.

“Authoritarians have a predisposition for liking sameness and opposing differences among people in their environment. They are submissive to people they perceive as authority figures, they are dominant and aggressive towards people they disagree with, and they are careful to obey what they consider the norms for their respective groups. At its core, authoritarianism is likely about power.

“It’s a mistake to think of authoritarianism as a right-wing concept, as some researchers have in the past.
We found that ideology becomes secondary. Psychologically speaking, you’re an authoritarian first, and an ideologue only as it serves the power structure that you support.” ...

Another key finding is that authoritarianism from both ends of the spectrum is predictive of personal involvement in political violence. While left-wing authoritarianism predicts for political violence against the system in power, right-wing authoritarianism predicts for political violence in support of the system in power.

https://news.emory.edu/stories/2021/09/esc_left_wing_authoritarians_psychology/campus.html

"Lock her up!"

We have to show both our nation and the world stability and strength of commitment next fall. For now, we've inherited the whirlwind sowed by the worst among us. and our international power has greatly diminished since Obama's presidency,
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