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Nevilledog

(51,156 posts)
Thu Dec 9, 2021, 10:37 AM Dec 2021

Democrats just proved they can get around the filibuster -- when they want to






https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/12/09/debt-ceiling-filibuster-arbitrary/

No paywall
https://archive.ph/VMIiu


The complicated agreement reached in Congress this week to ensure the nation doesn’t default on its debt is a Frankenstein’s monster of arcane legislative procedures. The House-passed bill creates a one-time process in which 10 Republicans will technically agree to limit debate on a resolution to eventually allow Senate Democrats to vote to increase the debt ceiling through a simple majority. Republicans don’t have to vote for a specific debt ceiling bill or increase amount. They are just agreeing to not filibuster the creation of this one-time process.

If all of this sounds gimmicky, it’s because it is. The filibuster has been the subject of significant debate this year, with members of both parties treating it as a hallowed institution. When it comes to the debt ceiling, Republicans have been insistent that Democrats raise the debt ceiling on their own, while refusing until now to allow a simple majority vote. The debt ceiling deal reveals how fundamentally subjective and arbitrary the supposed traditions and customs of the upper chamber are, and it provides the latest example of how the Senate is a broken institution incapable of responsive and logical solutions to our nation’s problems.

The House text of the debt ceiling measure provides for its expedited consideration, short circuits Senate debate and defangs a potential filibuster on the substance of the bill. This is all happening with Mitch McConnell’s buy-in, which is crucial. But it strongly suggests that certain institutional dividing lines aren’t as bright as some members of the world’s most exclusive club have suggested.

With this workaround, Senate Democrats have invited a fair question: If certain filibuster exceptions can be made for the debt ceiling, then why not for the other existential matters pending before Congress? Already, voting rights and democracy reform activists are pointing out the potential hypocrisy. Given the precarious situation at the Supreme Court, abortion rights advocates aren’t likely too far behind, with immigration reform activists likely to try to follow suit. Do these issues not also merit privileged consideration?

*snip*
20 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Democrats just proved they can get around the filibuster -- when they want to (Original Post) Nevilledog Dec 2021 OP
Correct me if I'm wrong, gab13by13 Dec 2021 #1
Joe said he will veto it anyway. FalloutShelter Dec 2021 #6
No it was not performance art. former9thward Dec 2021 #15
No it wasn't. Two Democrats voted with the GOP... Demsrule86 Dec 2021 #14
So, in a nutshell ... dweller Dec 2021 #2
The bottom line is it still took ten GOP types to do this...without their votes it would not be done Demsrule86 Dec 2021 #12
Yes, Democrats can get around the filibuster...if the Republicans cooperate. Midnight Writer Dec 2021 #3
Thank you! wryter2000 Dec 2021 #5
Because it is easier to blame two (now three) Democrats than actually blame Republicans AZSkiffyGeek Dec 2021 #9
Very true. nt comradebillyboy Dec 2021 #10
But those 2 ARE to blame. That is reality. They are not onboard with President Biden's agenda. Tommymac Dec 2021 #17
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Dec 2021 #16
Here is an op from yesterday VP Harris broke a tie vote for the 14th and 15th doc03 Dec 2021 #4
Yesterday Republicans held a symbolic vote that will change nothing AZSkiffyGeek Dec 2021 #19
I read the article and still don't understand the entire point unblock Dec 2021 #7
Republicans let them because their donors wanted the debt ceiling raised Fiendish Thingy Dec 2021 #8
"This is all happening with Mitch McConnell's buy-in, which is crucial." Qutzupalotl Dec 2021 #11
Is there anything you don't blame Democrats for? Demsrule86 Dec 2021 #13
No. What this proved is that the filibuster can be avoided when McConnell wants to onenote Dec 2021 #18
The title of the OP is the title of the WaPo article. Take it up with them. Celerity Dec 2021 #20

gab13by13

(21,377 posts)
1. Correct me if I'm wrong,
Thu Dec 9, 2021, 10:46 AM
Dec 2021

Didn't the Senate just vote down president Biden's, OSHA's, order for companies that employ 100 or more people, those employees must be vaccinated. No filibuster was used for that vote because I believe it was an agreement that Chuck Schumer made with Senator Mike Lee to get him to vote for the government spending bill. The House will, I expect, vote down Lee's bill.

FalloutShelter

(11,875 posts)
6. Joe said he will veto it anyway.
Thu Dec 9, 2021, 10:51 AM
Dec 2021

The Rethugs traded so they cool showboat on something that will be DOA if it ever makes it to Joe’s desk.

100% performance art.

former9thward

(32,046 posts)
15. No it was not performance art.
Thu Dec 9, 2021, 12:46 PM
Dec 2021

They wanted the vote to send a message to the courts, especially the SC, which are hearing challenges to the mandate.

dweller

(23,647 posts)
2. So, in a nutshell ...
Thu Dec 9, 2021, 10:49 AM
Dec 2021

“the Senate is a broken institution incapable of responsive and logical solutions to our nation’s problems”

🤨


✌🏻

Demsrule86

(68,620 posts)
12. The bottom line is it still took ten GOP types to do this...without their votes it would not be done
Thu Dec 9, 2021, 12:13 PM
Dec 2021

Midnight Writer

(21,771 posts)
3. Yes, Democrats can get around the filibuster...if the Republicans cooperate.
Thu Dec 9, 2021, 10:49 AM
Dec 2021

How the hell is our broken Senate the responsibility of the Democrats?

Tommymac

(7,263 posts)
17. But those 2 ARE to blame. That is reality. They are not onboard with President Biden's agenda.
Thu Dec 9, 2021, 01:19 PM
Dec 2021

That is reality also.

In 2009 we had the Senate...60 votes with a much less arrogant Rethuglican party...until one Joe Lieberman happened.

With the current Non-Democratic 'Senate Rules' which have NO constitutional basis, the Monied Interests STILL control the Senate.

Thanks to Citizen United these 2 modern Lieberman's have much more Dark Monied funding from RW Billionaires and corporations. Big Oil and Big Pharma in this case.

And other Dark Money is waiting to be thrown about if other 'BIG' 1% Cartels decide it must be so, and they each will most likely have a 'Democratic' Champion.

Hell - we can't even get sane and reasonable Gun Control passed among a school shooting violence and death epidemic that has reached epic proportions because so many Congressional folk on both sides take tribute from the EVIL and murderous NRA.

The Senate is broken. I know what I believe we need to do, but this is not the venue for that discussion.

Response to wryter2000 (Reply #5)

doc03

(35,358 posts)
4. Here is an op from yesterday VP Harris broke a tie vote for the 14th and 15th
Thu Dec 9, 2021, 10:49 AM
Dec 2021

time this year. They have done it 15 times this year! But can't do it on voting rights. Yesterday the Republicans with two Democratic Senators stopped Biden's vaccine mandate, didn't need ay filibuster for that! 51 to 50



https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16127079

AZSkiffyGeek

(11,044 posts)
19. Yesterday Republicans held a symbolic vote that will change nothing
Thu Dec 9, 2021, 01:27 PM
Dec 2021

Two Democrats in deep red states cast meaningless votes that would help protect them back home without affecting Biden's agenda.

Fixed it for you.

unblock

(52,277 posts)
7. I read the article and still don't understand the entire point
Thu Dec 9, 2021, 10:53 AM
Dec 2021

The argument seems to be that democrats can bypass the filibuster at will. But this one-time agreement depends on and agreement with mcturtle and 10 senators to not filibuster.

Democrats obviously can't just get that cooperation on demand, and surely republicans will extract some concession each time, as they surely got something this time, we just don't yet know what it is.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,644 posts)
8. Republicans let them because their donors wanted the debt ceiling raised
Thu Dec 9, 2021, 11:08 AM
Dec 2021

On Any other bill or issue, the obstruction of the filibuster remains.

The gimmicky workaround for the debt ceiling happened only because the Republicans permitted it.

Qutzupalotl

(14,320 posts)
11. "This is all happening with Mitch McConnell's buy-in, which is crucial."
Thu Dec 9, 2021, 12:11 PM
Dec 2021

at will = McConnell’s will

Democrats just proved … McConnell decides what to filibuster?

Demsrule86

(68,620 posts)
13. Is there anything you don't blame Democrats for?
Thu Dec 9, 2021, 12:21 PM
Dec 2021

If you read through the article. It took 10 Republicans to do this. We are lucky that we had 10 Republicans...but what makes you think these same Republicans will support other legislation? I am impressed that the Democrats manage to convince enough Republicans so we did not default on the debt and our economy go down in flames...I honestly think this should be deleted. It reads as if we can do it without the GOP and we can't. Perhaps you could save some of the 'blame' for the Republicans who deserve it. Did you read the article? It could not be done without the GOP votes including McConnell.

onenote

(42,724 posts)
18. No. What this proved is that the filibuster can be avoided when McConnell wants to
Thu Dec 9, 2021, 01:19 PM
Dec 2021

Question for the OP: did you read the article you posted?

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