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FSogol

(45,529 posts)
2. Thankfully he was born overseas, so we never have to worry aobut Musk outdoing Trumpy in the WH.
Mon Dec 13, 2021, 12:51 PM
Dec 2021

Dodged a bullet there.

2naSalit

(86,802 posts)
3. And we are subsidizing some of his projects.
Mon Dec 13, 2021, 12:51 PM
Dec 2021

He has enough money to do it on his own so why are we giving him subsidies? In fact, he was whining about demanding more this week.

KS Toronado

(17,344 posts)
4. We are subsidizing some of his projects...
Mon Dec 13, 2021, 01:29 PM
Dec 2021

because like all filthy rich people he knows which politicians he can "buy" off to enrich himself.
Really need to take money out of politics.

W_HAMILTON

(7,873 posts)
7. That's understandable.
Mon Dec 13, 2021, 01:36 PM
Dec 2021

But when you really think about it, it would be hard to name one person that has directly benefited from government subsidies more than Musk.

Escurumbele

(3,403 posts)
11. Nope, like the rule goes, there are exceptions, Mark Cuban is one
Mon Dec 13, 2021, 03:28 PM
Dec 2021

Plus, until the government stops subsidizing millionaires and billionaires, it is never going to stop. We have to blame the government, not the millionaires, it is an open door, it is legal, they are going to take advantage of it...Not that they are fighting against it, as a matter of fact that is why they buy the politicians, but nonetheless, politicians are either patriots or not, their actions say they are not and carrying he flag on their lapel does not a patriot make.

W_HAMILTON

(7,873 posts)
14. I don't think Mark Cuban is one of Elon Musk's projects...
Tue Dec 14, 2021, 01:53 PM
Dec 2021

You must have read my post incorrectly.



I was saying that MOST -- not just some -- of Musk's projects rely heavily on government subsidies and other similar taxpayer-paid funding.

CaptainTruth

(6,602 posts)
10. A lot of the "subsidies" I see are funding awards that many companies are free to apply for.
Mon Dec 13, 2021, 02:55 PM
Dec 2021

What I've seen over the years is that the Feds & States have made money available for companies that can perform a desired function, & Musk's companies are sometimes chosen from a group of applicants, because they can meet the requirements of the program. I guess those are subsidies, but do we want to change our government grant/award programs so they can exclude one company that's headed by someone we don't like? I don't think that's legal or desirable.

One example is the Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing (ATVM) loan program, which was created to promote development of zero-emission vehicles. Tesla applied & received a loan along with Ford, Nissan, & Fisker. Ford’s loan was for $5.937 billion. Nissan’s was $1.448 billion. Tesla’s was $0.465 billion. Fisker’s was $0.529 billion. Ford has never repaid its loan, so that could fairly be called a "subsidy" for Ford. Nissan repaid its loan in 2017. Tesla repaid its loan in 2013, 9 years early. Fisker defaulted and went bankrupt.

Another example is the SpaceX Starlink satellite internet system. The Fed govt (FCC) made funding available to provide internet to rural areas (from the $20.4 billion Rural Digital Opportunities Fund) & held a "Phase I auction" with a total of $9.2 billion in funding granted. As a result of the auction, funding was awarded to a total of 180 companies, including SpaceX. Once again, Fed funding, authorized by Congress, in a budget signed by POTUS, that any company is free to apply for if they meet the requirements, & the first round of that funding went to 180 different companies but I never see complaints about subsidies to 179 of those companies. There are many more examples like this.

Then there are local tax incentives offered by states & municipalities to encourge businesses to locate in their area, & SpaceX & Tesla have certainly received those. Those could be considered subsidies but that is done by virtually all states for all kinds of industries & all kinds of companies, it is not at all unique to companies that Musk is involved in.

Now, don't get me wrong, I really don't like Musk at all. In fact, I could say I hate him. The guy is a jerk, he's against Biden's infrastructure plan, & he needs to pay a LOT more in taxes. I just see people who seem to think his companies are getting "free" taxpayer dollars handed to them & every time I look into the details I find a funding program (which almost always comes with strings attached, a service must be provided &/or a goal achieved) that other companies also applied for & other companies also received funding. That's exactly how the system works. It's how it's supposed to work. If we don't like that & want to change it we need to complain about the Congress (the House) that writes our Federal budgets & the agencies that structure the grant/award programs because Elon Musk doesn't control any of that.

W_HAMILTON

(7,873 posts)
12. "Subsidies for me -- none for thee!"
Mon Dec 13, 2021, 03:56 PM
Dec 2021

I don't have a problem with government subsidies.

I do have a problem when a loudmouth jackass whose entire success and resulting net worth has depended on significant government subsidies -- more so than any other individual that comes to mind -- complains about them when they are going to people actually in need.

2naSalit

(86,802 posts)
13. My complaint is that...
Mon Dec 13, 2021, 05:50 PM
Dec 2021

He has the means to fund his own projects, especially since he retains control over them in the end and charges us for the returns so if he wants grants, he can create his own funding organization and borrow from that. Since he's not going to pay any taxes on it either way.

Federal grants should be limited to smaller organizations to help them and keep them from getting squashed by the likes of EM.

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