"It's All Moving Too Slowly!" People are saying about the Congressional investigation

[MineralMan]

Last edited Wed Dec 15, 2021, 12:47 PM - Edit history (1)

and DOJ action.

Not so. The January 6 Committee is moving along apace. As we are seeing, they are strategically releasing new information - all of it damning for TFG's administration. New revelations are coming almost daily, with texts, emails, and other communications steadily building a powerful case against Trump and his cronies.

Keep watching. You'll see more and more information emerging, followed by public hearings with live testimony given by people who were there and who know exactly what happened.

Sometime in January, the American public will see exactly what perfidy the administration and TFG were plotting. Then, and only then, we'll be more than ready to see this move into active prosecutions. More and more people will understand what was actually happening, and will support those prosecutions.

We are seeing this unfold, slowly and methodically. That is very, very important, and is what must happen if we are to see justice being done over this.

There are no shortcuts in this process. It must be thoroughly and carefully displayed for all to see. And that is exactly what will happen, under the excellent leadership in the House of Representatives. Watch. Comment. Share. Help spread the word and inform others of the details of what is being exposed.

We will win!

[LetMyPeopleVote]

1. Actually this investigation is moving fairly fast

[MineralMan]

2. Fast. Yes. I said it was moving "apace," which is the same thing.

It is moving fast, and accelerating.

[doc03]

3. It seems like they are moving but the people we need to convince will

not receive that news on Fox, OAN or Newsmax. They have their own set of alternative facts.

[MineralMan]

5. We don't have to influence the hard-core Trumpers.

Instead, we need to influence those who just follow along blindly without thinking.

We can do that.

[Eyeball_Kid]

20. Old saying: elections are won at the margins.

Peel off a few million votes, and the GOP can’t win.

[MineralMan]

39. Exactly.

Forget the crazies. Talk to the inattentive instead. They are the margin.

[Caliman73]

40. If their news sources are Fox, OANN, and/or Newsmax, we will never convince them...

and they are not the demographic we are trying to convince.

We actually need to convince the average person, who doesn't pay much attention to politics and who only becomes activated about 1 week prior to an election. That is a very large chunk of the electorate who think that politics is just politics and both sides are fighting for a point of view. The apathetic vote is easier to convince than people who are brainwashed by constant propaganda.

[Yonnie3]

4. Yes, it is moving along

The release of the information over time is effective in informing the public.

It enables a circular approach. A new fact enables a review of earlier facts. Repetition is key.

[MineralMan]

6. Exactly. Onion-peeling.

One layer at a time.

[malaise]

7. Get thee to the greatest page

Can’t wait for the public hearings

[MineralMan]

8. Yes. It will be the new "Watergate Hearings"

I watched those religiously whenever I could.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

9. Know how to tell if this investigation is moving along at a faster pace?

Just go to some of the RW sites and read how they're getting more and more shrill about conspiracy's, outright lies, etc.
It's really quite entertaining to read the panic in their posts.

[MineralMan]

12. I never visit right-wing sites, but I can imagine.

The more panicky they get, the better I like it.

But, still, it's not that bunch I care about. It is the habitual Republican voters I want to reach - the ones who don't normally pay much attention but just vote for Republicans out of habit. They can be reached.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

13. +100. nt

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

10. All I see is attempts to get people to testify,

most of whom openly refuse to do so and seem, at least so far, to be experiencing no consequences of that refusal.

Until someone is at least given a five-day sentence in jail for contempt of court, until Donald Trump has assets seized and is given a bill for the millions of dollars he owes in taxes, I remain unimpressed at the speed of this investigation. And even less impressed by the results.

I really hope that soon (by which I'm defining as within this decade) something substantive actually happens, and I can be called out on all of my negativity on this topic.

I honestly think we are simply living through another version of Fitzmas.

[MineralMan]

22. Watch more closely and observe the onion-peeling.

Really.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

41. The onion peeling take years and years.

I'm sure there is some kind of statue of limitations, which Trump and all his ilk are hoping to run out.

There seems to be absolutely no end to the delaying tactics and appeals. As soon as one is shot down, another pops up. Makes wack-a-mole look like, I dunno. Maybe it's wack-a-mole with an infinity of moles.

And the Attorney General, Merrick Garland Who Might Have Been a Supreme Court Justice seems to be doing remarkably little in all this.

[gab13by13]

11. I admit I am slow.

Why does everything have to go through the select committee where everything is challenged in courts? (plural)

MM did you listen to Liz Cheney Monday and Tuesday? Did you hear her cite the exact law that Donald trump violated? Liz Cheney was talking to Merrick Garland. The select committee has done the best job anyone could expect them to do. The select committee cannot indict anyone, it can only refer criminal complaints to DOJ and then the wheels of justice begin to turn. The select committee has referred 2 criminal requests to DOJ for ignoring subpoenas. Steve Bannon's trial isn't until the end of July. When will Meadow's trial be? He has filed a law suit that needs to be settled first. Meadow's trial may not happen until 2023.

I am excited also to watch people testifying publicly on TV, swaying public opinion is very important which re-emphasizes my opinion that the select committee is doing a fantastic job.

Liz Cheney laid it out for DOJ. The select committee has a lot of documents and testimony that incriminate Trump in impeding the official procedure of Congress
, a crime that carries an 8 year sentence. It is time for Garland to step up to the plate. The select committee has done a lot of the hard work.

[MineralMan]

14. Congressional committees are what they are. They work in public,

and can make news. Meanwhile, the DOJ is working in the background. We don't see what they do until indictments are delivered.

Both things are happening, but only one is in the daily news.

Yesterday, it was revealed that "some members of Congress" were involved in those Meadows communications. But, you'll notice that the names of those members were not revealed. They will be. That will be another day's news for people to share.

And again, in the meantime, the DOJ is plodding along in the background, building its cases through careful investigations. Watch the committee, Pay no attention to the DOJ. The magic act builds to big surprises.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

15. I love how the committee is strategically releasing damning information

to the public, they're not giving the pukes time to mount a counteroffensive, they're keeping the pukes on the defensive.

My take is that everything you've laid out is correct, there's much more to come, especially from the DoJ.

Interesting times ahead.

[MineralMan]

23. +100

[ShazzieB]

17. Thanks for this post.

Last edited Wed Dec 15, 2021, 04:39 PM - Edit history (1)

The defeatist garbage I see all too often at DU is absolutely maddening to me. Your posts are a helpful antidote, or at least amelioration, to the negativity.

It's getting harder and harder not to go off on people sometimes. Thanks for reminding me that I'm not the only one who isn't always assuming the worst.

[MineralMan]

25. Oh, naysayers and doomsayers we will have with us always.

It does no good to "go off" on them. That only encourages them.

Instead, pointing out positive progress toward justice is a winning strategy, in the end.

[ShazzieB]

61. Oh, I've never actually gone off on anyone here, and I don't plan to.

If I feel myself getting too irritated, I will move on without saying anything, rather than take a chance on saying the wrong thing. It takes a lot of the fun out of DU for me, though, when so many posts are annoying and depressing, and it's such a relief to see an o.p. that gives voice to a lot of the things I've been thinking.

[Eyeball_Kid]

28. I suspect that some posters are, perhaps unwittingly,

mirroring Russian propaganda messaging. It gets laundered through right wing media and sounds authoritative and legit.

Russians REALLY ARE using US media for spreading propaganda. And DU is an advantageous outlet that can spread cynicism and confusion

[gab13by13]

32. I disagree,

it is not a defeatist attitude to want DOJ to act. DOJ did not act in stopping the Arizona Cyber Ninja fraudit, a big mistake.

There are a lot of people who should be in the know who believe that DOJ is not doing enough, people like Adam Schiff, Eric Swalwell, Ted Lieu, Dan Goldman, and even moderate Claire McCaskill.

[ShazzieB]

58. That's not exactly what I meant.

When I said "defeatist," I meant the kind of post that says, in effect, "It's all over," when it isn't. I'm sick of people saying we've already lost our democracy. It's endangered, yes, but we haven't lost it yet, and there are are people working very hard to keep that from happening. It's flat out inaccurate to say we have lost already.

When it comes to the DOJ, what I get tired of is people saying they're doing nothing, like it's established fact, and bashing Merrick Garland for not doing what they think he should be doing, the way they think he should. The fact is, WE DON'T KNOW what the DOJ is doing ir what Garland is thinking. It would be great to know all the details, but for thatever reasons (that we also don't know), WE DONT KNOW. And I just get tired of people assuming they do know when none of us do.

I understand being impatient for certain things to happen. I just don't think we have any grounds to assume we know all the answers when we barely even know any of them.

As far Arizona, I don't know why the DOJ decided to leave it alone, but when a state legislature decides to to conduct an audit of the vote in their own state, that is something they have the right to do, even if they're doing it for really stupid reasons, and they have the right to decide how they want to do it, even if they decide to do it stupidly. So I think the DOJ may have decided to just let it play out. And what happened? Nothing. The whole thing ended, not with a bang, but a whimper, and the AZ state legislature ended up looking pretty silly to everyone except diehard MAGAts. Yes, they spent a lot of their state's money very foolishly, but that, too, is something they have the right to do. I hope some of them have to pay for their stupidity at the ballot box heat year, but I don't live in AZ, so it's not really any of my business. And it's not really the DOJ's business, either.

But back to my main point: as much as we wish we knew for sure what Garland is thinking and what the DOJ is doing, the fact is, WE DON'T KNOW. And as impatient as we may feel, assuming that we know things we don't know doesn't do any of us any good.

[dem4decades]

24. I wish I was as certain as you are that the DOJ is preparing indictments in the background.

I'm not so sure, np leaks usually means no action. And there hasn't been any leaks.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

27. Maybe there's no leaks

because the DoJ is keeping this very close to the vest so's not to tip them off.

[dem4decades]

31. Don't think that's how it works, witnesses that go before the GJ can talk about their questioning.

And often do to protect themselves and force others.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

33. Has a Federal Grand Jury been convened yet?

I'm a long haul truck driver so I may have missed it.

[gab13by13]

48. We don't know of one,

but we don't know what we don't know. State Ag's and DA's seem to be acting though.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

50. Exactly!!!!

I trust AG Garland to do the right thing.

[gab13by13]

34. I don't think that people on the grand jury are allowed to talk at all.

It is other people who do the leaking though.

[MineralMan]

29. No. A lack of leaks just indicates that people in the DOJ are quietly

doing their jobs.

There have been indictments already. There have been trials of January 6 participants. Mr. Horned Helmet is now doing 41 months in prison, for example. He was very ineffective in the Capitol, but was very visible. Now, he's cooling his heels in prison.

The more powerful the person, the longer an indictment will take. That's because powerful people can mount a powerful defense. So, cases get prepared more thoroughly, and that takes time. It's easy for us to form judgments, based on what we have seen. It's far more difficult to prove a crime beyond a reasonable doubt. We're not a court of law.

Be patient. That's my advice.

[Johonny]

16. It appear to be moving faster than Watergate

And has already lead to damaging information being released. Not sure the big guy goes to jail. He didn't for Watergate, but Nixon never threaten to re-enter politics.

[MineralMan]

19. Well, I think it's unlikely that TFG is going to be indicted

over this. That would be unprecedented in US history. However, he is extremely vulnerable to prosecution for other things. What is more important is that he be totally discredited, making any further attempt at election impossible. On the other hand, prosecution of others involved in January 6 is far more likely.

Even more importantly, if those in Congress and the Senate who were involve can be destroyed, politically, we will gain a great deal. I think that is more and more likely as facts emerge. Already, Gavin Nunes is walking away from his congressional seat. Why? Because he is deeply involved and knows that he will likely be destroyed. I expect others to follow in his footsteps and resign for similar reasons.

It won't happen overnight, but you will see, I believe, a steady attrition of office holders resigning over the next few months. Probably none of them will be prosecuted, but they'll be gone, nevertheless.

Next, I expect there to be a number of Trumpers running for office who will lose badly next November. They might make it through their primaries, but will be rejected by voters, even in some red districts and states. The mood of voters is shifting, I think, and I believe we are going to see something that many do not expect in 2022.

In some ways, a slow roll of bad news for Republicans may be better for us than a sudden flash of indictments and prosecutions that is over before next November.

Personally, I like the trend I'm seeing. Not everyone agrees with me, I'm sure, but that's how I'm seeing it, and I've been around for a very long time.

[Johonny]

42. I'm worried jail is the only way to discredit him

His followers seem allergic to reality. Unless Democrats puncture the unreality bubble that inflects GOP voters, I'm not sure what affect the January 6th commission has unless people go to jail (and not just the people that broke in/like Watergate real administration people need jail time). I think Nunes is leaving because California redistricting hurt his seat.

[Stuart G]

45. ."A slow roll of bad news for Repubs may be better for us" Yes, I've been around a long time too..

Post 19......

Yes,...That slow roll will help us ....(at for 2022) ....in the long run, there will be little affect ....Why?
Long run is the answer.. People remember in short run, but ...long run..NO. NO. NO.


Watergate was the key..Carter got elected in 1976.& lost 4 years later...

What people don't know about Jimmie Carter is he saved more lives than most Presidents of the U.S. How?

Proof:

Through Brock Adams...Sec of Transportation..Carter ordered all new cars be equiped with seat belts and sholder
harness by 1984.(also air bags later)...If you look at ...Automobile Deaths on highways...there has been a steady
decline of deaths since 1980...as more people used seatbelts and later sholder harnesses, and air bags saved lots of lives..
(at the same, huge increase in the number of cars on the road..yes that too)

take a look at Auto Deaths on highways...at link below: Total Proof:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year

[gab13by13]

51. Now don't be a naysayer MM,

If no one is held accountable (jail time) the 1/6 insurrection was just practice.

It would be unprecedented were Trump to be indicted just like it was unprecedented that he attempted to overthrow the government of the United States. I can't believe that you believe that it is good enough punishment for a traitor who attempted a coup of our democracy only needs to be discredited.

You must not have listened to Liz Cheney Monday and Tuesday? She repeated the same thing both days. She laid out what law Trump should be indicted for, impeding the proceedings of a Congressional function. 8 years in jail. Liz was speaking to Merrick Garland. The select committee already has a ton of evidence for DOJ to open an investigation. Not taking Trump down when the evidence is there is advocating for autocracy, because that is what we will end up with.

[Hekate]

18. It's beginning to feel like Watergate

Not Fitzmas at all

[MineralMan]

21. Yes. That's how it feels to me, as well.

I can't wait to see the list of Congress members and Senators who are implicated in the January 6 insurrection. It's going to be like eating expensive dark chocolate truffles, one at a time. Yum!

I'm a big fan of Lindor dark chocolate truffles. Bite into them and feel the bittersweet explosion of flavor from the interior.

[Hekate]

26. Schadenfreude Deluxe

[MineralMan]

30. Indeed. I'm savoring it.

[Stuart G]

35. K & R."We WILL WIN! & "THERE ARE NO SHORTCUTS IN THIS PROCESS"/10 WORDS SAY IT ALL!

[MineralMan]

36. Thanks!

[Alexander Of Assyria]

37. Indeed sir. Writing was on the wall a while back even if the wall was in the distance.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216081776

[MineralMan]

38. Yes. Thanks for the link!

[we can do it]

43. Thank you!!! Tired of the nonstop bashing!

Think positive!

[gab13by13]

52. Who is getting bashed?

[we can do it]

53. Anyone not moving fast enough for the "experts" here.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

54. I think the poster means the non stop bashing of the DoJ

for not moving as fast as some would like.

[ShazzieB]

59. I hink that's what he meant, too.

I feel the same way, as I tried to explain earlier today. (Post #58)

I'm sick and tired of all ,the DOJ and Garland bashing, and even more sick and tired of people assuming they know exactly what Garland and the DOJ are doing or not doing, when in actuality, NONE of us knows.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

60. +100. nt

[ShazzieB]

62. Thanks!

[mcar]

44. Kick!

[louis-t]

46. I would like it to peak with dozens of arrests of Republican

Congressmen and Women on or about October 31, 2022.

[peggysue2]

47. Changing the Narrative!

Yes, this is a methodical, serious approach. While critics have screeched that the pace is too slow, that Garland is a wuss, the January 6th committee has interviewed and documented over 300 witnesses. What we're hearing now with these daily reveals is a product of all that work and time.

We'll never convince the die hard MAGA crowd; they'll continue to stick their fingers in their ears. Fox will no doubt start an investigative series on the scandalous sex lives of chipmunks.

But for the rest of America including the press (finally) the narrative is changing, transforming. We're dealing with high crimes and misdemeanors to the extreme. Once the public hearings start (I want this on prime time, 24/7) eyes and ears will be riveted.

Donald Trump can scream at the clouds. But his perfidy and that of his enablers and violent supporters is coming to a theater near you.

Let it begin!

[MineralMan]

57. Exactly!

[Mad_Machine76]

49. I feel like things

are going about as well as can be expected given GOP/witness obstruction.

[slater71]

55. How far does this investigation have to go before they cant stop it?

If the Republicans get control of the House and Senate next November, at what point do we have to be so the republicans can`t stop it by shutting down the committee?

[Locrian]

56. yes and no

While I think it's going fairly well, there are limits to how response needs to be to these types of activities.

The judicial system operates in a fairly slow, grinding process. Works pretty well normally.

It doesn't work well if we're in a "war" - where psy-ops, surprise, guerrilla tactics, blitzkrieg etc are the norm. The GOP is tending to more and more of those tactics.

Like I said, at this point I think it's working fairly well.