Talks between Manchin and Biden are NOT going well on Build Back Better, per source familiar...

[demmiblue]

Talks between Manchin and Biden are NOT going well on Build Back Better, per source familiar with talks. A huge sticking point: the Child Tax Credit. Manchin wants it cut. Source says he wants to “zero it out.” They are “very far apart,” source says.

This kills any virtually any hope of getting the bill done by Christmas as Schumer had hoped. Biden and Manchin not close to a deal

Link to tweet

[Fiendish Thingy]

1. Bring it to the floor, make Manchin vote it down, then move on to voting rights. Nt

[DLevine]

20. +1

[Buckeyeblue]

22. I agree. At some point I would like to see that. But there is risk.

I'm sure he thinks there is an understanding to not put him on the spot. He could change parties tomorrow which would bring all legislative action to a halt until the new congress is seated. That includes judicial appointments and any SC replacements, if that were to happen.

[JohnSJ]

2. I have never understood why supposed knowledgeable sources feel so compelled to comment on

how on how negotiations are going on anything?

The reason the Kerry/Iran negotiations were successful is they didn’t include the media

[FalloutShelter]

3. After the disaster in Kentucky and several other states....

Is there NO Rethug that will come over on BBB? Seriously ? With all of the damage that will last a generation in their state?
No Republican that would like to tell their constituents that they will continue to get the child tax credit to help them get back on their feet?

Joe should be targeting them. Forget Manchin.

"Hey guys... remember all of the help the Federal Government and this administration is getting to you so super fast? Well...we will need you to vote for BBB."

Arkansas, Illinois, Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri and Tennessee.We can't pull one GOP Senator from any of these states?

[SoCalDavidS]

19. Illinois Has 2 Democratic Senators

Perhaps you meant Indiana.

[pandr32]

4. That Child Tax Credit will help families

It will also help Democrats get elected.
Families should bombard Manchin and ask him just who he is trying to help--certainly not them.

[Amishman]

8. In my mind, its one of the most important parts of the bill

especially since it helps families directly in a time of rapidly rising grocery and other prices.

[pandr32]

9. Agreed

[doc03]

5. People see the child tax credit as another entitlement

program. Manchin will never agree to it. With the inflation rate today we don't need more government entitlement programs.

[Autumn]

28. The child tax credit is a government entitlement program? My ass. Why are tax incentives and tax

breaks for the very wealthy and corporations not referred to as "government entitlement programs"? Always money for those, no complaints or hesitation there. When the Republicans take over in 2022 that going to fucking suck and if Biden can't get his agenda going that is very likely to happen. People voted for him to do things to help the people.

[doc03]

33. Just saying when people hear that it brings up thoughts

of the Reagan welfare Queen with the Cadilac. That will not fly in Manchin's WV. Myself I think inflation is the
is going to be the number one issue.

[Autumn]

36. Fuck Reagan and fuck Republican. They and their words mean less than nothing.

I don't give a fuck what they think or say.

[radius777]

40. WV was historically a New Deal state

and is populist on economics even now. The governor Jim Justice (a populist Republican) has voiced support for most of Biden's plans, often hitting Manchin from the left.

The opposition to BBB is more about big donors, as the proposed upgrades to the safety net are broadly popular with the (including the white) middle class.

[radius777]

39. +1. Upgrades to the safety net like the CTC, Family Leave, Dental

and others are broadly popular with voters - not so popular with big donors and wealthy who would prefer an oligarchy.

Right wing economics is welfare for the rich, corporations and the military industrial complex.

[BradAllison]

6. GOOOOOO JOE MANCH!!!!!!

Am I right? I know some of you love him!!!! Right????? Where are you???

[SCantiGOP]

7. I would give up a lot of the BBB

and let Manchin declare victory on that, if he would just get on board with Voting Rights protection.

[demmiblue]

10. Michael Bennet and Sherrod Brown:

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[demmiblue]

11. Manchin on floor, chatting w the republicans.

Link to tweet

[BeckyDem]

12. Depressing.

This is our chance, our time.

[dsc]

13. 41 Dems need to say no defense bill until BBB passes

This is total bullshit that we won elections by 7%, 5%, and 8% (President, House, Senate) and can't pass our policies.

[Mad_Machine76]

14. There was something I saw on Twitter a little while ago

suggesting that BBB was going to be shelved so that they can focus on voting rights

[Bettie]

16. And then, Manchin (the best of all senators, mind you)

will find reasons not to vote for that as well.

[Mad_Machine76]

24. Of course

Neither he nor Sinema are going to agree to modify or blow up the filibuster, so this is just a dumb move. They should focus on what they *can* get done via reconciliation with BBB

[UTUSN]

15. Am sure am not alone in not thinking 'twould be otherwise.

[Celerity]

17. 10 quid says that if/when the CTC goes poof, the fucking Rethugs have the jacobs

to BLAME BIDEN when people start freaking out after it goes bye bye, even though the cockwombles HATE the CTC.

And millions of dupes, shills, tools, trolls, stooges, shit4brains, and all round blasted idiots will buy into that insanely dishonest framing and procede to foam and vibrate in poutrage mode like Trump when his bloated girth pops a button off at near deadly velocity from his clothing due to tonnage stress during a daily waddle.

[Elessar Zappa]

27. Love that last paragraph!

[demmiblue]

18. "This is bullshit. You're bullshit," Joe Manchin just told me

I had asked if it was true he wanted CTC out of BBB.

“I've always been for child tax credits,” he said.

So I asked if he wants it to continue paying parents $300 a month, and he said he was not going to "negotiate" with me and that I'm bullshit

Link to tweet

[SKKY]

21. So means test it. The limit right now is 400K for a family. Make it 250K...

...If you make more than 250K, you don't need it. Easy enough.

[budkin]

23. Manchin defenders, get in here and spin this!

Let's go!

[Crunchy Frog]

25. Is anyone surprised by this?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

26. I heard a lot about Biden's great bipartisan work during the election, but I guess I should have

asked about his work with his own colleagues.

[Mad_Machine76]

31. A question better suited

For Manchin and Sinema

[WhiskeyGrinder]

38. They weren't candidates I had to consider for president.

[aocommunalpunch]

37. Yea, the negotiating skills leave more to be desired.

At least they allow some crumbs.

[demmiblue]

29. Why Manchin has concerns with including child tax credit in BBB, per source familiar -

Why Manchin has concerns with including child tax credit in BBB, per source familiar
- It has to do with how it impacts cost of bill, which he wants to keep at $1.75T
- Manchin’s belief is that if the CTC is expanded over 10 years it would blow up the cost of the bill.

- He isn't telling Biden to remove any specific policy, according to the source, but he has made clear that these expensive provisions are not going to fit to keep the bill at $1.75T
-- Biden's framework would extend CTC for ONE year.

- But Manchin has said that temporary programs do not reflect the true cost to taxpayers. And has repeatedly made clear that the cost of the bill should reflect how much the bill's programs cost over 10 years

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[lame54]

30. Joe Manchin is so important to the dem party...

Like when you get stabbed in the gut but you can't remove the knife because you'll bleed to death

Manchin is the knife

[Mad_Machine76]

32. Perfect analogy.

[PBC_Democrat]

34. Too much pressure could be more costly

As Buckeyeblue wisely pointed out there is absolutely nothing stopping him switching sides of the aisle. it might also increase his chances of reelection in bright-red WV.

I also suspect Sens Manchin and Sinema are just the tip of the problem and they are other senators that allowing those two to take the heat so vulnerable Ds in tight races.

[wellst0nev0ter]

35. He can't switch parties

If he becomes a goop, his political career is over.

Trumpanzees are not going to vote for someone who voted to convict 45 not once but TWICE. He'll be immediately primaried out.

The only pathway to a lengthy career is to stick with the Democrats

[radius777]

41. Biden and the Dem party need to come down hard

on Manchinema. They are not the only red state Senators yet the only ones making trouble. Tester from Montana and Kelly from AZ don't make any trouble. Both GA senators are on board.

Manchinema's opposition to BBB is not about what their consitutents want - it is about what their donors want. WV is red but historically a New Deal state, ie populist on economics. AZ is really purple at this point. So the argument that 'it's a red state, whaddya you want them to do?' is nonsense. Social issues or gun issues would be a problem, but not spending on the middle class which is always popular with voters (as FDR demonstrated).