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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCutting ties: the sad decline of men's neckwear (this is satire, right? Right?)
Link to tweet
The Spectator
@spectator
'It cannot be chance that the decline of the tie has coincided with the erasure of everything it once meant to be a man. Masculinity is considered toxic. The tie is being cancelled.'
✍️ Jonathan Miller
Cutting ties: the sad decline of mens neckwear | The Spectator
Of all the global trends exacerbated by Covid, the demise of the necktie is probably not the most important. It is, however, worth noting because the way we dress tells us a lot about who we are....
spectator.co.uk
2:30 AM · Dec 14, 2021
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/cutting-ties-the-sad-decline-of-mens-neckwear
Of all the global trends exacerbated by Covid, the demise of the necktie is probably not the most important. It is, however, worth noting because the way we dress tells us a lot about who we are.
The tie has been on the retreat as a quintessential item of the male wardrobe for the past 30 or so years. Thanks to all that working from home, it is now at the edge of imminent extinction: soon it will be worn only by eccentrics, dictators or eccentric dictators. The worker bees have returned to their office hives, but on the whole their ties have not come with them.
It cannot be chance that the decline of the tie has coincided with the erasure of everything it once meant to be a man. Masculinity is considered toxic. The tie is being cancelled. You dont need to be a Freudian to grasp the significance of this.
Not so long ago, almost every British male wore a tie: schoolboys, shopkeepers, bus drivers, policemen, bank clerks, GPs. The history teachers was stained with soup. It was unthinkable to leave the house without one. President Clinton would greet guests at the White House by complimenting them on their tie. (For what its worth, when Jeffrey Epstein visited he wore a curious dark number with faintly sinister reddish circles.)
The tie has long been a signifier of purpose, self-discipline and authority. Even conformity. Yet these are now considered old-fashioned. Indeed, one by one, all have been progressively degraded and consigned to historys rag bin.
*snip*
marybourg
(12,639 posts)70sEraVet
(3,522 posts)LakeArenal
(28,855 posts)I believe we still have those.
Men used to wear frilly shirts and tights.
Surely the end of those fashions signified masculinity then so I guess masculinity ended way back.
Edit. Mr Lake says masculinity ended when men could not hit women on the head with their club and drag them to their cave. (Its a joke people)
LakeArenal
(28,855 posts)Celerity
(43,582 posts)Nevilledog
(51,213 posts)Celerity
(43,582 posts)Klaralven
(7,510 posts)Even business attire varies by metro area.
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)Kinda wish society would be more formal myself.
ProfessorGAC
(65,230 posts)Geez, I dont even own a pair of jeans! Not my style.
Elessar Zappa
(14,084 posts)to say that the decline of ties indicates anything related to manliness is ridiculous (not that you said it but the article).
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)Just wish the world was a bit more formal.
Mossfern
(2,568 posts)Maybe it's my age, but I remember the days when one would dress for an airplane trip.
Of course, back then they served full meals and used real china and cutlery. Boys had to wear button down shirts in HS and girls had to wear skirts....or is that going too far?
BTW, I write this as I sit in my sweats and flannel shirt.
ShazamIam
(2,576 posts)still worn, it is such a symbol of captivity in my mind,
a symbol of obedience to superiors and all that, "tradition," strongly associated with authoritarian political and economic systems.
Eccentrics, dictators and eccentric dictators are the correct candidates to keep up the tradition of obedience.
Mosby
(16,378 posts)So I hear.
ShazamIam
(2,576 posts)since at least the late 90s, they are still a thing for dressed up older women and since it is possible to have the veins repaired even the older women are switching to make up and bare legs.
RobinA
(9,898 posts)pantyhose out of my cold dead hands. I despise the no-hose look except for casual in the summer. There's nothing worse than a whole nice dressy getup with bare legs.
And I'm supposed to pay for plastic surgery so I don't have to wear hose? No. I'm as white as they come and my fish belly white legs don't do any outfit justice.
Demovictory9
(32,479 posts)Aristus
(66,474 posts)Any more than why not wearing one should be seen as a decline in traditional masculinity.
I love wearing ties. I have about a hundred of them, and I feel more attractive when I wear one. (Anything that distracts attention from my face is a plus, if you ask me.)
One of the reasons why I enjoy wearing a tie is that its a way for me to show my respect for my patients. Most of them are homeless, and I like showing that they are important enough to me to want to look nice and professional for them. This is just my own thing, and doesnt apply to anyone else. The PA who trained and mentored me used to practice medicine in an old sweater and a pair of cargo pants.
My income allows me to indulge my taste for tailored clothing, but my outlook is basically if you like it and its comfortable, wear it.
And to the guy in the OP who moans that not wearing a tie is unmasculine, I would just say, I look pretty good in a sport coat, dress slacks, and a nice mock-tee.
LakeArenal
(28,855 posts)DenaliDemocrat
(1,476 posts)I dont need a tie to loom masculine. Maybe those that do should try the old Squats and Milk
Bodybuilding routine so they dont need ties to look masculine
brooklynite
(94,780 posts)panader0
(25,816 posts)and hang them on the ceiling. Years ago, when I took my kids there, we stopped at a
Salvation Army store and bought cheap ties. Then when we got our table, a guy came around
and ceremoniously cut off our ties. I'll bet the restaurant has run out off room to hang ties by now.
I was a bricklayer. You don't wear a tie for that kind of work. (Or any construction jobs)
Klaralven
(7,510 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(49,047 posts)packman
(16,296 posts)LeftInTX
(25,595 posts)Johnny2X2X
(19,155 posts)Doesn't mean being a strong and responsible gentleman is toxic. But masculinity in terms of thinking a man's opinion matters anymore than a woman's is toxic. Masculinity in terms of being physically aggressive means manhood is toxic. Masculinity in terms of entitlement is toxic, by this I mean men who think they are entitled to sex, to superior jobs, to special treatment because they are a man.
Nothing wrong with men working hard, taking care of their families, and treating women like ladies. That's what manhood means to me, being a responsible adult and a gentleman. I don't care who is offended by it, I will never stop opening doors for ladies, I will never stop letting women in front of me in line, and I will not stop being protective of the women in my life and women in general. That to me is non toxic masculinity, although some might disagree.
But what the American Right considers masculine today is really abuse, it's harassment, it's dishonest business dealings, it's a selfish I'm getting mine no matter who it hurts attitude. The American right views masculinity as being a monster, being an asshole, and being macho. They've lost their way and forgotten what manhood is supposed to mean, it's supposed to mean sacrifice, kindness, and responsibility.
Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)Poiuyt
(18,130 posts)I have a fedora but never wear it for fear of looking like it's part of a costume. I do, however, wear an Irish walking hat similar to this:
That's not me BTW
MurrayDelph
(5,301 posts)than the slouch-brim/wide-band type, but I wear one almost every day (I had a skin cancer scare a few years ago, so I never go out without a hat, which up here in Oregon doubles as an umbrella to keep the rain off my glasses).
Now, I come by my hatred of neckties honestly: my dad had it in his burial instructions that he was not to be buried wearing a tie. We buried him in a track suit.
40 years ago, when I interviewed for an industrial education job for a great big computer company that no longer exists, it was a selling point that they did not make their instructors wear neckties. A few years into the job they changed the rules to require neckties, I thought it was a Mickey Mouse rule, started wearing Mickey Mouse neckties, and a lifetime of collecting Disney stuff has resulted.
EarlG
(21,973 posts)For two hundred years the powdered wig was a signifier of purpose, self-discipline and authority. Even conformity. Yet these are now considered old-fashioned.
The powdered wig has been canceled and men just aren't men any more.
Save the powdered wig!
Nevilledog
(51,213 posts)global1
(25,279 posts)The way he wears ties is an embarrassment. Hanging as far down as his crotch - makes him look like the buffoon he is. And his choice of colors - yech!!!
When he came on to the scene as a Repug candidate is when I started to wean myself off of wearing ties - lest I be mistakenly identified as a MAGA.
I haven't worn a tie now in almost 5 years. And guess what - I don't miss it.
madinmaryland
(64,933 posts)When I started for a major financial firm in 1996 we had to wear a suit Monday thru Thursday, with casual business attire on Friday. By the time I left five years later, it was business casual every day. With the job I started after that, it was business casual everyday except on Friday you could wear jeans. I dont miss wearing a tie, though sometimes I feel like wearing one just to fuck with people at work (theyll ask if I have an interview).
maxsolomon
(33,423 posts)I've taken to wearing the same outfit 3-4 days in a row.
Although I'm not heavy, I am blessed/cursed with a large neck (size 17) and i have never really had a dress shirt that didn't make me feel like I was being strangled - even when I was a teen. The sad thing is, I know men look best in a suit and tie - there's a reason that movies have multiple dudes dressed in them when there's no real purpose to it (John Wick, James Bond).
Aristus
(66,474 posts)its not tailored properly.
Tailored clothing should be as comfortable as casual clothing. If its done right, high-quality tailored clothing is a joy to wear.
I wont say that I feel exactly the same wearing sweats for a night in as I do wearing black tie for a night at the opera. But one carries oneself differently in those situations. Its almost as if ones actions are guided by ones outfit.
Ill never forget the first time I wore a white dinner jacket (a la Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca) to the opera. At intermission, Mrs. Aristus went off to the ladies room, and a gorgeous woman came over to me and said: Youre beautiful!
I tell you, I felt ten feet tall, even though I knew it was my outfit and not my looks she was referring to. Sometimes, taking the trouble to look nice pays off in some very rewarding ways.
maxsolomon
(33,423 posts)All my suits and jackets are properly tailored. It's just the shirts.
Aristus
(66,474 posts)A year or so before COVID, I had a set of dress shirts custom-made; they were nice and all, but actually didnt fit me any better than the off-the-rack shirts I usually buy.
Im guessing you already tried going up half a neck size? (17 1/2)
maxsolomon
(33,423 posts)i need custom, but now... there's nowhere to wear them. funerals i guess.
Aristus
(66,474 posts)I love dressing up, but not enough to storm statehouses and threaten public officials.
Sur Zobra
(3,428 posts)Gotta be pure satire
drbtg1
(1,054 posts)It's not hygienic. Everything else I wear at work can be easily washed. But neckties? Not so much.
Gave up on them long before the pandemic.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,973 posts)I wear a different tie each day of the school year.
That said, I don't think it's a decline of masculinity because that's stupid as fuck. We are moving toward a more casual dress trend for work. I don't think that's good or bad. Just what it is.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Carlitos Brigante
(26,505 posts)need their man card revoked.
Caliman73
(11,745 posts)about the "demise of masculinity" because of "this or that" shows what an arbitrary concept "masculinity" is.
Ties? Really? Certainly at one point they were a standard article of clothing that men wore. As others pointed out, so were cod pieces, so were wigs (powdered for the high class) and knickers. Suits, trousers, fedoras - all have taken a spot on "required" clothing for men but have they defined masculinity? If they did, then we'd still be wearing them right?
"Well, but men have certain traits... Oh, oh yes, we are more decisive and bold, we are rational... Okay? But are those traits inherently masculine or have they been socialized as masculine traits and thus pushed on displaying them. There are no bold, decisive and rational women? Sure, we call them "bitches" because they are invading our space..."
There are physiological differences between males and females within a range different combinations of sex hormones, body structure, etc... that is fact. Those differences and their expression across populations have influenced what are called "gender roles" and feminine and masculine traits. There are differences but there is overlap, and the main problem is that "masculine" traits have been valued and advantaged more than "feminine" traits.
It is just silliness.
pecosbob
(7,545 posts)To some the necktie has become a symbol of Wall Street and the 'oppressor class'.
struggle4progress
(118,378 posts)Amishman
(5,559 posts)Hate them, horrid annoying uncomfortable things.
Aristus
(66,474 posts)I tell them: "Your time isn't strangling you; you are strangling you!" If your tie is uncomfortable, you're wearing it wrong. Make sure you're wearing the right collar size, too; and then tie your tie loosely and comfortably.
Renew Deal
(81,882 posts)It is a decoration.
HAB911
(8,919 posts)TOO FUNNY
Oneironaut
(5,530 posts)In the words of the alt-right, Teh men have turned into cucked soyboys, and have stopped wearing ties because the evil Feminazis and femoid-supporters emasculated them and destroyed our gender roles! I remember back when men were men, and women were women, before Feminist Libs took over America and turned everyone into snowflakes. Now were all being cancelled! REEEEEEE!!!
Oh, Jonathan - Youre onto us. We transgendereds, Libtards, and Feminazis are turning men into pathetic things called humans, and allowing them to have feelings. Oh no, the horror!
Aristus
(66,474 posts)All that venom coming from guys who couldn't get laid in a brothel with $100 bills falling out of their pockets...
DenaliDemocrat
(1,476 posts)With this torture device! Good riddance!
niyad
(113,600 posts)wheen he starts the day by tying a little noose around his neck."
And, as I just read, some hospitals in Great Britain do not allow neckties, as they can be disease transmission vectors as a result of infrequent laundering.