Weather Extremes. Depends where you are.

[MineralMan]

So, there's a heat wave in parts of the United States. Some states are experiencing record high temperatures at the end of December. They might see some destructive storms and tornadoes as well.

Here in Minnesota, the new indoor/outdoor thermometer/weather display from Sharper Image my wife bought me for Christmas said it was -10 degrees F out on the deck. Further north in Minnesota, -50 degree wind chills are expected.

That's the thing about climate change. It depends where you are. Tornadoes in December? Weird. It's a little early for those sub-zero temperatures here in Minnesota, as well.

The point is that climate change causes weather extremes. It causes F4 Tornadoes that travel over 200 miles in December in some states, and heavy snowstorms and subzero weather in other states. Extremes.

Welcome to the new extremely normal weather, eh?

[ProudMNDemocrat]

1. Below Zero in SE Minnesota.

Better than having 8 feet of snow though. Think of the homes with weak roofs.

[MineralMan]

2. Well, of course. We have below zero temps every winter.

The places with 8 feet of snow get snow every winter, too.

Extremes.

[Hortensis]

3. Highways are open in the high Sierras from that record blizzard,

but yesterday distances on I-50 at Tahoe that normally took a few minutes could take hours because of humongous traffic issues.

Our daughter drove her family to nearby ski slopes in the afternoon and then waited 3 hours in a restaurant rather than try to get home and back to pick them up.

That's not the "good" part. We were in bed here in GA (3 zones east) when she messaged us from their car that it was so bad that "Tahoe" was being closed to entry of nonresident vehicles as of 8:30 pm. Since they had a place there they'd be allowed down onto I-50, which skirts part of the lake, but were still half a mile away. It had taken them an hour and a half to drive 4 miles.

Forgot to ask how the skiing was. I'm wondering, though, how many people ran out of gas in that kind of traffic, temps in the 20s.

[MineralMan]

5. Back in the 1970s, my then wife and I did a lot of skiing.

Not at Tahoe, except one time. But, I remember a trip to Yosemite and Badger Pass. We drove up there on a Saturday morning, leaving at 4 AM for the 4.5 hour drive. We skied all day and then checked into the cabin we had rented. Overnight, it snowed over 4'. It continued to snow that day. We actually made it to the slopes at Badger Pass and did some skiing, but it wasn't much fun, really. So, we decided to drive home.

They were amazing at getting the roads in Yosemite cleared. We were driving an 1959 BMC Mini that year, and had chains on its front tires. Not an ideal vehicle, but we fell in behind a snowplow that was plowing the main road going down the highway from the South entrance to Yosemite and followed it down the mountains. We finally got below the snow level and drove on home on the Central Coast.

Where deep snow falls, the snow gets cleared fairly quickly on major roads in California mountain areas, but it's still a challenge for locals and tourists alike. People living on little side roads, though, often are snowed in for days. Locals, though, are prepared for it, and have supplies to last until they can get out again.

I'm waiting for the temperature to get up to zero degrees. I need to run to the supermarket. Another hour or so of this sunny day, and I'll brave the cold. Minnesota gets snow off the roads very, very quickly. The plows were out all night on the major roads, and are dealing with the side roads this morning. We're ready for it.

But, extreme weather is getting extremer and hitting places that aren't used to it. It's a problem that will continue to worsen.

[Hortensis]

9. :) I'll just bet MN gets the snow off very, very quickly. Now, Seattle

was having some unaccustomed problems...!

No one'll forget here in GA when 2-3-4 inches of snow and ice shut down Atlanta. Lol, a lot of people discovered that the worst of the typical pretty hilly, curvy roads of their neighborhoods had become impassable, with cars sliding up, down and sideways and spinning wheels in what used to be someone's lawn. Our son was able to get up and down a steep curve that trapped most in his neighborhood because he had four-wheel drive and chains.

I lived below Yosemite for a while as a child. Our three-room school in El Portal closed every Wednesday in winter and we were all bussed up to Badger Pass to ski, everything courtesy of the vendor companies. Different times!

[MineralMan]

11. Yeah, Minnesota understands snow removal.

Still, the early storms every winter catch drivers off-guard, and there are hundreds of accidents during the commuting hours. After about a month, people finally remember how to drive and the accident rate goes way down. I just got back from a supermarket trip. I drove at a reasonable speed. Others were going along at the speed limit on roads that had very slick spots. I just go at the speed I want and let them go around me.

That's cool that you got to ski at Badger Pass as a kid. That's where I learned to ski as an adult, and it remained my favorite ski area, mostly for its modest size and reasonable runs with not a lot of dangerous runs to tempt me. We tried some other places, but always went back to Badger Pass when we just wanted to go skiing for a couple of days. There were some cabins you could rent inside the park, owned by people whose families had them before Yosemite existed as a park. We discovered those, and always stayed in one of them on our trips. Just a short drive to the Badger Pass turn-off. Reasonable prices per night and they had kitchens, so we could save by cooking our own meals. Loved that place! You were lucky to grow up nearby!

[Hortensis]

18. :) Nice memories. Mine also, for as long as the skiing ones lasted.

I laughed at your first paragraph. How funny that "people" in MN would need more than a block or two to remember how to drive.

"People" in Los Angeles, where we used to live, never did know how to drive in ice and snow, of course, but the behavior's much the same. A special problem in dry climates, as you'll remember well, is that oil, etc, builds up on the roads between rains; then when roads get wet, it rises to the top and people find themselves "driving" on a film of oil. Since rains are often so infrequent, though, the "remember" period typically overlaps the rush of adrenalin.

Btw, my plan on moving to GA from CA to just never drive if I heard the word ice on TV worked for a couple of years -- before being blasted by having to get my husband down the mountain and to the ER in town at 2 a.m. during a historic ice storm. Classic little cosmic joke.

[MineralMan]

19. Those ski trips in the car to Yosemite and Lake Tahoe

actually prepared me pretty well for my move to Minnesota. My wife, who grew up in Minnesota was amazed the first time we flew out here for Christmas and I drove our rental car all over the Twin Cities after a snowstorm. I explained that it was a breeze after driving on mountain roads in California in the winter. Later on, I drove her and her parents up to Yosemite in the summer. The winding mountain roads scared them. They just weren't used to such roads. So, I put on my chauffeur hat and drove very gently, so they could stop clenching their hands around ever bend in the road. They loved Yosemite, though. We stayed in the Yosemite Lodge in the valley, in rooms that looked out on Half Dome and had balconies to sit on. Her father spent most of his time sitting on the balcony, staring at the scenery. When a gray jay landed on his arm, hoping for a treat, and looked at him for a while, he was in complete bliss.

[Hortensis]

22. Ah, how nice. Makes me remember being there myself.

Seriously.

Including those mountain roads. I didn't realize when I was young just how tall western mountains are comparatively because I hadn't been east. They're just part of life out there.

Lol, a visiting friend had her hands clenched all the way when I took tiny windy little roads over the very wild, steep coastal mountains, from homes along ridges overlooking the San Fernando Valley over to homes along ridges and cutouts on the ocean side. Very few people use them for good reason, or did then, but I just thought it'd be a nice change from taking the 405 or Topanga. She was frozen all the way, but there was no better way to get her down by the time I realized than continuing on. (Trying to turn around scared me.) She talks about it to this day, though, and the takeaway was what I wanted -- that its mountains are "Los Angeles" too.

[MineralMan]

24. I grew up in a small citrus town in Ventura County.

Once we all got driver's licenses, we'd take adventures into the LA area. We weren't supposed to drive down there, but it was all just 45 minutes away, so we couldn't resist the temptation. Mulholland Drive and the other roads that crossed the mountains there were just fodder for our explorations. I remember as a high school senior taking a girlfriend to a show in Hollywood. Afterwards, we parked in that famous pull-out on Mulholland Drive, the one that looks out on the LA area and that has been in so many movies. No hanky-panky, though. That area was door-to-door cars, all with couples looking for that romantic connection in that famous place. The early 60s were such an innocent, adventurous time, I think. And Southern California had so many opportunities for adventure.

[Hortensis]

32. I didn't think of you being so close to L.A. Of course it'd

be irresistible. We probably don't know half the times our daughter and friends slipped out to cruise the Hollywood Hills, or lord knows wherever, when they were supposed to be at a sleepover or party at a known home. Love the picture. I did a lot of appraising up and out there.

[MineralMan]

33. I moved away from my home town in 1963, as soon as I was 18.

Good place to grow up; less good as a place to live as an adult.

Still, LA was less crowded then, the traffic wasn't too bad, and there was a lot to see and do. My parents finally gave me the OK to drive down there in my senior year, and I took full advantage of that permission.

I saw Sandy Koufax play with the Dodgers, made several trips to the Griffith Park Zoo and Observatory. Marineland, Disneyland, Knott's Berry farm, and the Greek theater were popular destinations for a car full of kids, but we went everywhere. One time, a group of us went trash-picking at the homes of movie stars and the like. Cool stuff in the trash back then.

I wouldn't do it now if I were a kid in high school. It's not the same place in any way. So long ago, it's like a different time altogether.

[Hortensis]

34. :) I once lived within walking distance of Knotts Berry Farm and

was often there.

I'm not at all so sure you wouldn't be visiting L.A. now. There are many wonders to see, places to visit, things to do; and let's face it, you wouldn't be the same kids now that you were then either. For one thing, you'd carry smart phones and meet up with friends from online.

And of course, you wouldn't expect it to be what it was then. Thinking about it, which is fun, I'm guessing that if today's teenage you could be dropped into "then" you'd feel a lot of things didn't compare so well at all.

Just for a big one, people and society in general were significantly poorer in the 1950s, which'd probably hit you right away. Even in L.A. not everyone had indoor plumbing yet, better than in the country of course. And it was normal for people to not have graduated high school. Females and minorities had very different roles and behaviors in society, of course, which you wouldn't be at all used to.

And lots of necessities hadn't been invented, including the miraculous ability to connect instantly with friends. It'd be a huge shock to our grandsons to find themselves tough out of luck because they didn't know they had to call friends from home at a time when their friends were also home and reachable. No worlds in their pockets possible, but they'd learn quickly they needed some nickels and dimes.

[MineralMan]

35. You are absolutely right.

Times were what they were back then. We did what we could do at the time.

Things are better in many, many ways now. And worse in some.

I remember telling a college professor, after returning to college in 1969, that in a couple of decades we wouldn't have to request reference materials from the library to do research for all the papers we had to write. He scoffed at me. So, I gave him a nutshell description of what would become the Internet. He laughed even louder. He was wrong, and we are much better for that.

He didn't anticipate the progress that would occur. Few people did at that time. And yet, the seeds of it had already been sown. It was inevitable.

I embrace change. I always have. Since change is inevitable, one might as well be optimistic about what will come.

[Hortensis]

36. I'm impressed that in 1969 you had a good realization

of what would become the internet. It was something in the future for me, and I gave a lot more attention to the wonders of the interlibrary loan system. Imagine, I could have physical books delivered from impressive college libraries of my choice around the nation just for a little freshman paper. Free. I did it once just to try it out.

"One might as well be optimistic about what will come." Yup, for all good reasons, but definitely including to balance out the sadness, and even grief, for good things gone.

Speaking of weather extremes, after the historic blizzard this weekend in the Sierras our kids' area plummeted from balmy 20s into the teens, and they're going to try to fly home today to miss the real cold wave predicted for this weekend. The lake's choppy today.

[MineralMan]

37. I had seen the very beginnings of ARPANET before leaving

the USAF in 1969. I was extrapolating from that into a future I thought would be about two decades away. And, indeed, in 1989, I actually did some online medical research for a friend via some technology at GENie and CompuServe. His baby daughter had a rare cancer, and I found some clinical trials for him to inquire about. Sadly, the child died before long, but she was enrolled in one of the trials. A couple of years earlier, as an alumnus, I had dial-up access to my University library's journal research system. In fact, I helped them set up the dial-up system early on, so I had full access. It was still experimental, but you could access a lot of stuff, even then. It all exploded soon after. As early as 1985, I was operating a bulletin board system with multiple phone lines from my home. That was linked to many other BBS systems through FidoNet. We had a primitive email system that had nationwide reach.

The Internet, of course, made all that early stuff obsolete, but my prediction ended up being accurate. I helped make it so in a very small way. Exciting times.

[Hortensis]

38. Absolutely exciting, and amazing times, and you were right in there.

Fwiw, I was one of the first I knew (except for our friends at JPL) who had a computer, to work at home --withOUT internet.

But my great triumph was managing to troubleshoot all by myself with the DOS manual. Never once gave up and drove the thing to pay someone to read it for me. My husband eventually worked on computer systems at JPL and military installations, but at that time he'd never even plugged one in and was worthless.

[MineralMan]

39. Yay you!

Learning it that way is how you do it right.

[Hortensis]

40. Lol. I LOVE online tech support. I was so thrilled I was

jumping up and down when I discovered some electronic device our son gave us had contacted another it had to interface with and they were talking and ignoring me like the incompetent simpleton I was while they configured everything. Step 1 of the owner's installation manual should have just said to dial it up, sit back and don't be offended if they seem rude.

To the OP, serious tornado warnings here last night but hit another neighborhood. We almost never get them, and not this time of year.

[mnhtnbb]

4. We are having 70 degree weather here all week. Thunderstorms later today.

I had 400 daffodil and tulip bulbs planted last month in the yard of my new house. Yesterday I noticed several of them poking up! If this weather keeps up, they'll be blooming in JANUARY! Crazy. Really crazy.

This is Durham, NC. Our average high this time of year should be mid-40's.

[MineralMan]

6. Yup. Things are definitely not typical anywhere.

It might not seem like a big deal, but extremes are going to get worse over time. Much worse.

A little later this winter, you're likely to get a major snowstorm there in Durham. Extremes.

[marie999]

17. I'm near Jacksonville NC. Our nightly lows have been higher than our normal daytime highs.

Our normal highs are supposed to be in the mid 50s but now our nighttime lows are in the mid-60s and our highs are in the mid to upper 70s. Barely any rain.

[bluesbassman]

7. We took a quick road trip to Galveston TX, it was a record 82 yesterday.

Lake Tahoe friends are reporting 194 inches of snow, smashing a record that goes back to 1970.

Yep, weird weather all over.

[Nictuku]

8. Snow in Napa California yesterday

Not a lot. But seeing it at all is a rare thing.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

12. Nov.30th. Lush in Napa.

We toured the Castello di Amorosa Winery in Calistoga that day. Vineyards for miles. Stopped in St. Helena, then Yountville for lunch.

[onethatcares]

10. mid 80s high/west central floriduh

bobblehead on the teevee says this is normal this time of year. Gulf of Mexico water temp 68 degrees. should be 60 degrees

the St Pete area has had minimal rainfall since November.

No snow or ice on roads to be reported. Just too many people.

[cinematicdiversions]

21. St Pete area has had minimal rainfall since November.

Actually, I think we are right around our December average of 2.4 inches being at 2.1 inches

https://weather-and-climate.com/st-petersburg-florida-us-December-averages

https://en.climate-data.org/north-america/united-states-of-america/florida/saint-petersburg-1638/t/december-12/

[onethatcares]

27. one days rain

might make the monthly average but overall there has been one day of rain this month. I live here, I garden, I pay an outlandish water bill to use city water for my garden if needed, the city is requesting that people do not use reclaimed water because there has not been enough rainfall for the water reclamation plants to function properly.

Meanwhile, since the county has been built out for the past 45 years development has not stopped and the previous 8 years have been unbelievable in the way of multi family housing development.





Maybe I'm hallucinating. I just don't know anymore. Or, maybe you live here too and have a different birdseye view of it.

[cinematicdiversions]

28. It was one day's rain... Hi Neighbor....

But this time of year is always dry.

I just mowed the lawn for the first time in six weeks (Mostly to vacuum up leaves) in the summer I am out there at least once a week.

The rain will come soon enough.

[onethatcares]

29. I've been saying that all summer and fall

and last spring.

I stockpile close to 400 gallons of rainwater and use a 2 gallon sprinkling can to water my vegetable plants. Without supplemental rain water that lasts 2 weeks.

I used to work at a condo complex. The water charge was included in the monthly maintenance fee which was set at xxx per mo.
You have no idea how many owners let their toilets run or don't replace the flapper, or run water while their rinsing the dishes to put in the dishwasher, or run the water while brushing their teeth, or at times, just let their outside hoses run because they were watering their plants and got a phone call and walked away. It literally makes me sick to my stomach about the waste.

Then they complain about the fees going up.

Hi Neighbor, this place could be paradise but they paved it and put up a parking lot.

[Kaleva]

13. I'm to the east of you in Upper Michigan and our weather is relatively mild

[MineralMan]

14. Oh, just wait... Your time will come.

[Kaleva]

20. With climate change, winters here are predicated to become milder

[MineralMan]

25. Could be. I'm waiting to see.

It's very hard to predict, really, what a particular place will be like as the planet heats up. I'm stuck here in Minnesota, for financial reasons, so I guess I'll find out. Both my wife and I would love to move back to California, but real estate is completely out of sight there now. So, we've bought a new place here and downsized. We'll stick it out where we are. My wife has lots of friends and relatives nearby, so that helps. And her friends are now my friends.

[Polybius]

15. I am in no way insulting Minnesota, but how are you ok with such extreme cold?

I would never be able to live in a place colder than NYC, which hasn't gotten below the 30's (in the day) yet this season.

[MineralMan]

16. Really, it's not that big a deal.

We dress for it. I just got back from the supermarket. When I left my house it was -4 degrees F. So, I wore flannel lined jeans, a shirt jacket that is also lined. Boots and socks. I put on a Lands End -50 degree parka that permanently has a pair of winter gloves in the pocket. I got into my car in the garage, raised the door and drove to the store. I didn't bother with the gloves or the parka hood to walk from the parking lot to the store. Too short a distance. Inside, I unzipped the parka, did my shopping and zipped the parka back up to walk back to the car. When i got home, I drove the car into the garage, which stays at about 30 degrees, even though it's not heated. Closed the garage door and carried the groceries back inside. I was never really uncomfortable.

It wasn't as cold yesterday when I shoveled the snow off my porch and balcony deck. Same outfit, though, but I did wear the gloves.

If you live in Minnesota, you have to have clothing for various temperatures. If you dress for the temperature, you're fine, really. Now, if the wind chill drops below -20 F, I do not go out at all. Some people do, but I don't.

It's not a matter of being OK with the cold or enjoying the cold. The cold just is, so you adapt your behavior to it. If you have to work outdoors in the winter here, you'll need even better clothing, though, but people do it all the time. I don't work outdoors, except for snow removal for shortish periods of time. I'm equipped for it. I add another layer under my parka and put on tall insulated boots, and wear mittens designed for long periods of cold. I wear my parka hood up and zipped. No problem.

[ananda]

23. On the high side here. Warm and muggy.

The cold starts Friday I think.

[MuseRider]

26. Getting really cold after all this warm December

but only for 2 days with snow on New Years day then it will warm back up into the 40's and near 50's. I would not mind this at all if it did not make me worry about the state of our planet.

[FakeNoose]

30. It's unseasonably warm in Pittsburgh now

We haven't seen any snow yet except for a few flurries that didn't stick. That was about 3 weeks ago, and since then it has been in the 50's most days. I'm not complaining but it does seem a little dreary, overcast and foggy or drizzling most days.

The ski resorts hate this, they can't even make enough snow to stay open for skiers. I expect this will change soon. We should be getting down to the 'teens and twenties in January but I don't know if we'll see any snow this winter.

It's really cyclical though. We get more than our share of snow some years, but others we get little or none.

[DFW]

31. Seeing that back home in northwestern Europe, it is absolutely miserable

I called over to Sprout City today, and they said it was about freezing, gray and with freezing rain.

Here in Charleston, South Carolina, it is about 70° F, and sunny every day. It won't last. I don't care.