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Was Charles deGaulle an authoritarian, a generic strong man, or small d democrat? (Original Post) DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2022 OP
A great leader who knew when to quit dalton99a Jan 2022 #1
Don't know a lot about him bucolic_frolic Jan 2022 #2
You might Google your question left-of-center2012 Jan 2022 #3
I did. IMHO he was a French nationalist. DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2022 #5
Google says ... left-of-center2012 Jan 2022 #6
TY DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2022 #7
I was just wondering about which book or books. I have always considered him interesting & important ShazamIam Jan 2022 #11
No, have not read left-of-center2012 Jan 2022 #19
Dirigisme helped rebuild France and underpinned its modern national infrastructure Celerity Jan 2022 #4
He led a provisional government that restored democracy. NutmegYankee Jan 2022 #8
That's my take. DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2022 #10
I think he saw himself as France and set out to save it from its Vichy friendly parts. ShazamIam Jan 2022 #9
Yes on all counts RFCalifornia Jan 2022 #12
As did Churchill. DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2022 #13
Yep -- him too RFCalifornia Jan 2022 #14
He was a towering and distinguished looking leader at President Kennedy's funeral. nevergiveup Jan 2022 #15
He liked Kennedy more than he liked America. DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2022 #16
He earned his arrogance Turbineguy Jan 2022 #17
When he lost elections at the end of WW II and in the late 60s he Tomconroy Jan 2022 #18
He didn't think Oswald acted alone dalton99a Jan 2022 #20
"A new, and likely definitive, biography of Charles de Gaulle" left-of-center2012 Jan 2022 #21

bucolic_frolic

(43,161 posts)
2. Don't know a lot about him
Sun Jan 2, 2022, 02:54 PM
Jan 2022

He was mentioned in a few passages or chapters of Nigel Hamilton's FDR at War trilogy. It was all FDR could do to cajole, beg, flatter deGaulle into a photo op when they met whereever it was. It took every stretch of truth, hairsplitting, vivisection of policy and protocol. But FDR got it done. He didn't have a high opinion of the man. My sense is deGaulle was a bit pompous.

So to answer your question, I don't think any of those categories fit. He considered himself the natural entitled leader of the French nation. I've probably opined on more than I know about this subject.

ShazamIam

(2,571 posts)
11. I was just wondering about which book or books. I have always considered him interesting & important
Sun Jan 2, 2022, 03:47 PM
Jan 2022

but haven't read any biographies and only know what I have read in other books of his times both WWII and after.

Have you read the book, if so what do you think?

Celerity

(43,372 posts)
4. Dirigisme helped rebuild France and underpinned its modern national infrastructure
Sun Jan 2, 2022, 03:21 PM
Jan 2022
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirigisme


Dirigisme or dirigism (from French diriger 'to direct') is an economic doctrine in which the state plays a strong directive role as opposed to a merely regulatory or non-interventionist role over a capitalist market economy. As an economic doctrine, dirigisme is the opposite to laissez-faire, stressing a positive role for state intervention in curbing productive inefficiencies and market failures. Dirigiste policies often include indicative planning, state-directed investment, and the use of market instruments (taxes and subsidies) to incentivize market entities to fulfill state economic objectives.

The term emerged in the post-war era to describe the economic policies of France which included substantial state-directed investment, the use of indicative economic planning to supplement the market mechanism and the establishment of state enterprises in strategic domestic sectors. It coincided with both the period of substantial economic and demographic growth known as the Trente Glorieuses which followed the war, and the slowdown beginning with the 1973 oil crisis.


In France

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirigisme#In_France

Before the Second World War, France had a relatively fragmented capitalist economic system. The many small companies, often family-owned, were often not dynamic and efficient[citation needed] in comparison to the large industrial groups in Germany or the United States. The Second World War laid waste to France. Railroads and industries were destroyed by aerial bombardment and sabotage; industries were seized by Nazi Germany; in the immediate postwar years loomed the spectre of long years of rationing (such as the system enforced in that period in the United Kingdom). Some sections of the French business and political world lost authority after collaborating with the German occupiers.

Post-war French governments, from whichever political side, generally sought rational, efficient economic development, with the long-term goal of matching the highly developed and technologically advanced economy of the United States. The development of French dirigisme coincided with the development of meritocratic technocracy: the École Nationale d'Administration supplied the state with high-level administrators, while leadership positions in industry were staffed with Corps of Mines state engineers and other personnel trained at the École Polytechnique.

During the 1945–1975 period, France experienced unprecedented economic growth (5.1% on average) and a demographic boom, leading to the coinage of the term Trente Glorieuses (the "Glorious Thirty [years]" ).

Dirigisme flourished under the conservative governments of Charles de Gaulle and Georges Pompidou. In those times, the policy was viewed as a middle way between the American policy of little state involvement and the Soviet policy of total state control. In 1981, Socialist president François Mitterrand was elected, promising greater state enterprise in the economy; his government soon nationalised industries and banks. However, in 1983 the initial bad economic results forced the government to renounce dirigisme and start the era of rigueur ("rigour" ). This was primarily due to the Inflation of the French Franc and the Keynesian policies taken by François Mitterrand. Dirigisme has remained out of favour with subsequent governments, though some of its traits remain.

NutmegYankee

(16,199 posts)
8. He led a provisional government that restored democracy.
Sun Jan 2, 2022, 03:38 PM
Jan 2022

He was a bit pompous and nationalist, but he believed in government by the people.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
10. That's my take.
Sun Jan 2, 2022, 03:44 PM
Jan 2022

You can't compare our pre-Trump history to France's history but I would add the Trump era has reordered all existing relationships for the worse. Our democracy has always been flawed but there is a not insignificant number of Americans who don't believe in rule by the people.

ShazamIam

(2,571 posts)
9. I think he saw himself as France and set out to save it from its Vichy friendly parts.
Sun Jan 2, 2022, 03:42 PM
Jan 2022

Sometimes those parts were strongly aligned with similar interests within the U.S. I don't think I can rely on U.S. reporting and U.S. interests backed books to be a balanced source.

I do hold France responsible for holding the U.S. & NATO to the agreement to support their continued colonization of Vietnam as the other EU powers were surrendering their colonial holdings to independence.


RFCalifornia

(440 posts)
12. Yes on all counts
Sun Jan 2, 2022, 03:49 PM
Jan 2022

He was an imperialist as well - he tried like hell to keep France's colonies

But he fought the Nazis and fought to keep France a democratic republic

nevergiveup

(4,760 posts)
15. He was a towering and distinguished looking leader at President Kennedy's funeral.
Sun Jan 2, 2022, 03:57 PM
Jan 2022

That is all I got on De Gaulle.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
16. He liked Kennedy more than he liked America.
Sun Jan 2, 2022, 04:02 PM
Jan 2022

If my memory is correct during the Cuban Missile Crisis Adlai Stevenson offered to show France satellite images of Soviet missiles in Cuba. deGaulle said that wasn't necessary, that America's word was good enough.

 

Tomconroy

(7,611 posts)
18. When he lost elections at the end of WW II and in the late 60s he
Sun Jan 2, 2022, 05:24 PM
Jan 2022

left quietly. I don't think he was in power in the 50s so had nothing to do with Viet Nam, I think. He was called back to power to deal with a disastrous colonial war in Algeria and once in power ended French involvement pretty quickly. Wasn't that what The Day of the Jackal was about? French generals unhappy that he would grant Algeria independence?
I read his three volume autobiography which covered the years right up to his being voted out of office right after WW II. It made for interesting reading. He pretty much single handedly tried to restore French honor after its disastrous defeat in the Spring of 1940. FDR detested him but I've come to the conclusion he was a great man.
He deeply believed that his own destiny was tied up with the greater destiny of France.
PS: Not sure what he thought of JFK but he adored Jackie.

left-of-center2012

(34,195 posts)
21. "A new, and likely definitive, biography of Charles de Gaulle"
Sun Jan 2, 2022, 06:07 PM
Jan 2022
‘De Gaulle’, by Julian Jackson

Charles de Gaulle was perhaps the most thoughtful and impressive statesman of the twentieth century. His only possible rival in this regard is Winston Churchill, another statesman-thinker, though Churchill presided over a longstanding, stable, and free political order in the United Kingdom, something on which de Gaulle could not depend in the French case.

De Gaulle has been the subject of fine biographies in the past, among them a somewhat mythologizing three-volume work by Jean Lacouture, a well-researched but less than sympathetic account by Eric Roussel (who clearly prefers the supranationalist Jean Monnet to de Gaulle’s passionate partisanship for the nation), and a more popular and readable account in English by Jonathan Fenby.

Added to these now is this superb and equitable portrait by the British historian of twentieth-century France, Julian Jackson.

Full article
https://www.city-journal.org/charles-de-gaulle#:~:text=Lion%20of%20France%3A%20A%20new,biography%20of%20Charles%20de%20Gaulle
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