These debates about how/when we'll split up are pointless...it won't happen.

[brooklynite]

First, let's be clear: nobody serious is talking about it. No Governors, no elected officials, no serious candidates. A handful of right-wing bloggers on Gateway Pundit or voices on Steve Bannon's podcast don't count as anything significant.

Second, the States aren't as autonomous as they were before the Civil War. There wasn't a standing Army and States had real control over their National Guards. Add to which, the international deployment of the armed forces would make distribution to "red" and "blue" America virtually impossible.

Third, and most important, the nation is far more economically intertwined today. In the lead-up to the Civil War, there were virtually no multi-State businesses. The railroads were all local and regional lines that wouldn't be merged until the 1880s. The energy monopolies didn't exist. Manufacturing firms were local, and traded their products across State lines. Today, every major company has a corporate structure that spreads through both red and blue States, and however conservative or liberal their CEO may be, it won't be in their interest to have a huge chunk of their domestic business to suddenly become international.

[elleng]

1. Exactly

[Girard442]

2. And there are nukes.

[Kaleva]

3. +1 Also the folks who talk about a split don't seem to be making much effort preparing for one

[BlackSkimmer]

4. Thank you. nt

[PortTack]

5. Right....as much as sometimes I wish for FL and especially TX to go away, it won't happen

[cachukis]

6. Noise, but effective noise. A religious drumbeat.

Path of least resistance power stroking.

[J_William_Ryan]

7. "...the States aren't as autonomous as they were before the Civil War."

And they aren't as homogeneous as they were in 1861 with regard to political participation.

Indeed, the split isn’t between north and south or even between the states, the split is between rural and urban within the states.

[Kaleva]

13. Majority of Trump voters in Michigan live in the urban or mostly urban counties. About 75%.

Trump got as many votes from Wayne County (Metro Detroit) as he did in all the counties of Upper Michigan and much of northern lower Michigan put together. About 43% of the vote TFG got in the state came from counties Biden won.

In California, a whopping 71% of the 6,006,429 votes TFG got came from counties Biden won.

https://www.cnn.com/election/2020/results/state/california

[crickets]

14. Yes. One look at the "Land Doesn't Vote, People Do" map gif emphatically illustrates this.

https://demcastusa.com/2019/11/11/land-doesnt-vote-people-do-this-electoral-map-tells-the-real-story/

[Kaleva]

16. It's an urban vs. urban conflict.

Trump would never had stood a chance if a majority of his vote in battleground states came from rural areas

[ShazzieB]

26. This stuff is fascinating, thanks!

The map needs on me is very pleased. 😁

[bucolic_frolic]

8. This past week Frank Figliuzzi used the term "entrenched insurgency"

I always use the caveat, as I recall. But I agree with the OP, this is not a geographical division. To my view it's neighborhoods and enclaves, towns and countrysides, cities and suburbs. I really don't know what will convince rogue citizen militias to go back to normal. I still don't know what they want. How would their lives be different if TFG were still president? They would be pleased with their own brilliance? It's like free-floating anger. The get-the-government-off-our-backs crowd without goals. Directionless. They're all ready for civil strife and armed conflict. What will that improve?

[empedocles]

17. 'entrenched insurgency' - good, fun, phrase

[BComplex]

34. It's not any of the above. It's right wing propaganda channels, and who listens to them.

Faux Nooz needs to be put out of business.

[panader0]

9. Secession is so Rick Perry....

[onenote]

32. It has some adherents on DU as well.

[Baked Potato]

10. Agreed. America is strong and durable because of diversity in all forms.

AMERICAN DISUNION
HOW RUSSIA HAS CULTIVATED AMERICAN SECESSIONISTS AND SEPARATISTS IN ITS QUEST TO BREAK UP THE US

PAGE 71

“For the past half-dozen years, Russia has supported American secessionist movements, all in the hopes of sow- ing division in the US. These efforts have spanned a range of tactics, from bankrolling travel and resources for Amer- ican secessionists, to setting up markedly popular socia- media accounts and organizing on-the-ground rallies, to even reportedly hosting leaders of separatist movements outright in Russia. And such efforts have extended to sev- eral disparate movements, including those like The Base, a white supremacist outfit dedicated to creating a white eth- no-state in the Pacific Northwest. Moscow has supported neo-Confederate groups such as the League of the South, which seeks a reprise of the Civil War, with the end goal being the establishment of an independent plantocracy on American soil. Still other quixotic movements include the Texas National Movement and YesCalifornia, which advocate for Texas and California’s independence from the union.”

THE KREMLIN’S MALIGN INFLUENCE INSIDE THE US

https://www.4freerussia.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/TheKremlinsMalignInfluenceInsidetheUS.pdf

Also, at page 89:

A MOVING TARGET
THE KREMLIN’S SOCIAL MEDIA INFLUENCE INSIDE THE UNITED STATES

[marie999]

11. Of course, it is pointless, but fun.

I don't post it, but I like to shoot down the reasons that people write that are for it. There's not a lot of fun things to do now without lying down.

[Blaukraut]

12. The more likely outcome is right wing autocracy

And for those of us in blue states, that's the nightmare scenario.

[J_William_Ryan]

15. "...as much as sometimes I wish for FL and especially TX to go away, it won't happen."

Good examples of the divide being between rural and urban – Tallahassee and Miami-Dade, Austin and Houston are among the most liberal and progressive cities in the country.

[FrankTC]

18. Before Anyone Files For Divorce

there’s usually a protracted period of contemplation: Things aren’t that bad, we should stay together for the sake of the children (international allies), disentangling will be too hard, how will we divide our assets, who’ll get custody of the children (nukes), what if he or she partners up with that tramp he/she has been ogling (Putin). For sure real questions, but for sure answerable. As it stands, neither red nor blue will convince the other. So the issue isn’t shut-up-about-secession-so-that-we-can-establish-our-hegemony-over-our-opponents-indefinitely, it’s secession vs. being yoked in a soul sucking bad marriage for the rest of our lives.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

19. Correct sir. All bullshit to feed into the bottomless bullshit pit that is social media faux news.

[monkeyman1]

20. finally put in the right perspectives!! well done & thank you !

[Hulk]

21. I laugh when I hear idiots in Texas threaten to secede.

Such absolute bull shit nonsense. Pull the US military out of Texas, and they would struggle to survive. Idiots.

[Polybius]

22. I'm surprised there wasn't talk of a split in the 50's and 60's

With the Civil Rights Era and governors openly defying the feds.

[paleotn]

24. We had state governors defying the federal government.

Ike had to nationalize the Arkansas National Guard in 57. And then Kennedy in Alabama in 63. There was talk.

[paleotn]

25. Not likely, but not impossible.

[bronxiteforever]

27. Kick & recommend. Thank you! The economics

of this country make any movement toward civil war suicidal. The Country is intertwined and can’t be segregated. The business of America is business and business can’t survive and support a civil war and neither could our governments finances. Imagine Florida without Social Security checks? Would the Villages turn to cannibalism?

There is plenty of proof that civil war destroys economies. The stock market would collapse. “Countries experiencing civil war will see a collapse in tourism, foreign investment and domestic investment. It can lead to shorter life-expectancy and lost GDP. A report entitled “Africa’s missing billions” (Oxfam, 2007) estimates the cost of war in Africa has been equal to the amount of international aid. A country like the “Democratic Republic of Congo” has experienced a particularly difficult war, which besides causing the deaths of about 4 million people, has cost it £9bn, or 29% of its gross domestic product.”
https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/2180/economics/economic-impact-of-war/

[Hortensis]

28. Agree. This is anxiety talk, like the general agreement

50 years ago that we were all going to die in nuclear war before long. I didn't agree with that, either, but resigned doomsday talk presumably performed some function for a lot of people.

[left-of-center2012]

29. Agreed

It's not as if it is state versus state.

It would be neighbor against neighbor.
How do you split up a country that way?

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

30. True, but there's no harm in hoping, dreaming, and musing about a utopian nation where there are no

conservatives to obstruct human evolution in all biological, social, economic, and political processes.

[brooklynite]

31. What a horrible idea...

Why would I want to live in a world where everyone agrees with me?

And, to be honest, they wouldn't. We'd have more time for conflict between moderates and progressives, progressives and socialists, socialists and communists.....

[DashOneBravo]

33. Yes thank you

[Meowmee]

35. Lets see what happens

When there is little or no real accountability for the recent crimes and if fascism installs itself firmly in place.

[brooklynite]

36. Perhaps you missed this...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216230790

[Meowmee]

37. Talk is cheap

[brooklynite]

38. Your appreciation for President Biden and his Cabinet is noted.

[Meowmee]

39. Your threat is noted