Maxwell Verdict In Question

[RandPaulsNeighbor]

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2022/01/ghislaine-maxwell-verdict-comes-into-question


To the commenter(s) that questioned my analysis of the original Reuter's interview with the troubled juror(s), I guess my take was not "so silly" after all. Unfortunately, I was almost exactly right.

Now, we should all hope the juror(s) in question did not blow it so bad, as to warrant a new trial. But, something tells me justice is fucked on his one. Incidentally, if a new trial is ordered, expect her to get released on house arrest.

The conspiracist in me says that a band of mercenaries for hire will show up in the first month of her home confinement and that will be the last time GM is heard from. She will find a nice new home in Russia or one of their allied countries, and all of the elites connected to this case will breath a big sigh of relief.

I really hope I am wrong, but, if what the juror said in the interview with Reuters is true about the deliberations and he lied during voi dire, this case is headed for trial number two. At that point, it will be incredibly difficult to keep her in jail awaiting a second trial. It has happened, but she has capable attorneys and endless resources, material and human, to bring about her desired release. It will take a massive bond, but she can afford it.

[BlackSkimmer]

1. I've only seen one interview with the bearded guy.

I wouldn’t want him on a jury deciding my future life, that’s for damn sure.

I didn’t see your original comments. Just adding mine.

[jimfields33]

2. If the jury didn't follow procedures

then I’d rather she get a retrial. It’s the right thing to do. Do I like it? No. But it’s important to do it right.

[SCantiGOP]

3. I read the whole article

It is quite overstated. I’m not at all convinced that these comments from one juror after the trial are grounds for a new trial.

[RandPaulsNeighbor]

4. Comments, no.

Lying during Voi Dire, regarding the fundamental issue at trial, hard yes.

[70sEraVet]

7. I would think that there would be a pretty harsh penalty for lying during jury selection.

He may pay a heavy price for his '15 minutes of fame'.

[SCantiGOP]

19. RPNeighbor:

My wife is an attorney, and she (disloyal wench that she is) said that you are probably right.
She said it would depend on how the question, and his answer, were worded, but it likely would be grounds for overturning the verdict.
She wasn't sure about the other question concerning whether she would be released pending a new trial since a good case can be made for her being a flight risk.

If it works out that way, I hope that juror suffers some consequences. For one thing, he caused them to waste thousands of dollars of tax money.

[RandPaulsNeighbor]

17. Agreed

Sorry to hear your experience. It is all too common. In this case, he only had to indicate on a written form his experience and answer the follow up question in front of the room. The question, had he not lied on the form, was can you fairly or participate as a juror or will you be biased. The form question is more ambiguous, too. It asks if you or a close family member has had that experience. I am surprised you had to do it the way you did.


Edit: accidentally hit post.

[Hortensis]

20. 100% as jimfields says. Judge gives defense attorneys until Jan 19

to request a retrial. That doesn't mean it'd be granted, but if it is, so be it. I imagine the jurors will be interviewed.

In the interviews, the juror said he revealed to other jurors during weeklong deliberations that he was sexually abused as a child, and he said the information helped him convince some jurors that a victim’s imperfect memory of sex abuse doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

5. Why would there be a band of mercenaries?

If Maxwell was gonna 'talk', she'd have done so during the plea bargaining stage.

Either she:
a) Is never going to talk, or
b) Doesn't actually have anything on any particularly powerful people, or
c) You've watched too many conspiracy-theory movies

While it's certainly clear that Epstein (and she) abused many underaged girls, the whole 'being pimped out to famous people' is a storyline that's been pretty much the exclusive purview of Virginia Giuffre, who's also the one who's been suing people for large sums for a decade plus now.

My thought is that if anyone was going to be swooped in on and silenced ... it'd be Giuffre.

And it would've happened a long time ago.

[BlackSkimmer]

6. Yeah, I know people won't like this, but I have my suspicions about Giuffre.

Just read an article where she apparently texted a friend about how she “got to sleep with” Andrew. She was proud of it.

She’s raked in quite a bit of cash from this situation.

[RandPaulsNeighbor]

9. Entitled to your Faith

Last edited Mon Jan 10, 2022, 07:49 PM - Edit history (1)

I have zero faith that this will turn out how it should. Are you seriously doubting Virginia's account. Mercenaries was a bit of hyperbole on my part, but the sentiment is true. She could not get herself out, but the right people could. I suppose you also think Epstein could not have been murdered in jail? Barr visits, cameras off, guards not watching as they were supposed to, Epstein dead, andcase against the guards is dropped.

I really am shocked that people on this site continue to believe that this is just your average woman and everything is on the level. From Epstein's insider plea deal to his death, nothing about this case normal and they cannot be separated from one another. You say only Virginia gave evidence of the elite connection, actually the Epstein flight logs tell the same strory, so did countless witnesses.

So, not sure how to do an asinine emoji, but imagine it.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

18. Of course I don't think Maxwell 'is just your average woman and everything is on the level'

Don't be

And no, I don't think Epstein was murdered in jail.

However, do I think he was ALLOWED to off himself? That's a possibility I'd definitely consider, and easily makes more sense than the 'he was murdered in federal prison by agents of a shadowy cabal of perverts that Epstein was supplying sex slaves to' storyline you're imagining, given the available facts.

I'd argue that if anyone was going to get plucked up and 'disappeared to keep them quiet' it would've been Giuffre, as she's been the one leveling accusations against (and suing) powerful people all along. Nobody else has done that.

Which other underage victim is there who's testified to sex with someone other than Epstein and Maxwell, at Epstein's behest, apart from Giuffre (who's been fingering famous people all along)?

I don't know of any, hence my doubting the existence of an all-powerful shadowy cabal of pedophiles that's whacking people in jail and sending teams of bad guys to silence witnesses.

Bottom-line, I think it's quite possible that the extent of "Epsteins Pimping of Underage Girls to Famous People" ... is basically already known, because Giuffre is the only one he actually did that with, and she's been talking about it for years, in and out of court.

But then, I'm not part of Q, so there's that

[RandPaulsNeighbor]

23. Victim Blaming and Shaming, with an Offensive Emoji Kicker

Nothing but conjecture from you again. How many other accusers do you doubt without backing it up? Why not just use the R word? Too scared? I have a down syndrome sibling, so real classy emoji.

You appear to have a problem with facts. You do realize that everyone working for Ep/Max and many of their victims were/are (mostly) under NDA's that limit their ability to speak. Only now are some of those limits being removed, but it will take time to benefit justice.

You really seem to vigorously oppose justice for obvious abusers. I wish you had the same passion for reading and fact based dialogue.

Two other Maxwell victims testified against her, besides Virginia. You are calling them liars? Glad you were not on the jury, no need for a defense, you just choose to not believe. What Q has to do with this, I have no idea, but nice throw in for absolutely no reason. Just muddying the waters? They seemed murky for you already.

I will not post the entire history of this case, but you are in denial or blissful ignorance, one issue can be rectified and make the other impossible to carry on with. Try it.

Start with the Epstein plea deal, the NDA's, and the settlements that provide immunity to his, as you say, "innocent" associates that needed legal immunity for, as you say, a crime that "never happened."

As for killing Virginia, no need when you believe you are above the law. When you realize you are not, it is too late because it would be too obvious. Abusers do not believe they need to silence their victims, they think their abuse will silence them. The more I try to go through your victim blaming the more nauseous I get. I am done.

Do the your due diligence or do not, but do not bring your fact free opinions at me.

[BlackSkimmer]

29. I don't think that poster has a problem with facts.

You’re new here, and your thinly veiled personal attack on a longtime poster is puzzling.

[RandPaulsNeighbor]

30. No, More Opinions

Length of presence does not permit one to dispute my factual post with conjecture and provably incorrect statements, while personally attacking me because the longterm poster thinks the victims in question are lying, without offering any proof whatsoever.

They did not even recognize the multiple victims that came forward with similar stories to VG's. So, spare me the crocodile tears. The poster started by not reading the article or understanding it, the, stated, without proof, that victim is a liar, and, finally, spiraled from there into putting up an offensive emoji and personally attacking me.

Sorry, I am new and right about everything I said. Deal with it, and stop relying on your gut feelings to judge victims of abuse. And, for god's sake, refrain from using, what can only be described as a mentally challenged clown emoji.

I have worked with people of all forms of disability, seeing a mocking emoji of them, on this site, was the last thing I expected. Second only to opinion based victim blaming, of course.

Respectfully, you are wrong to defend the posters conduct.

[BlackSkimmer]

31. Dude, that is an emoji that's been here forever. It's a clown emoji.

I spent my career working with people with developmental disabilities, so spare me the lecture. Perhaps write to the admins if you have a problem with the emojis.

“I am new and right about everything I said.” Alrighty then!

[RandPaulsNeighbor]

32. So? Again, Length of Time Makes it Okay

Last edited Mon Jan 10, 2022, 09:55 PM - Edit history (1)

I bet you used to use the R word and stopped, now, stop using an emoji to take its place. That was my point, dude or..

I am glad to point out that you have been using an offensive emoji that should never have been allowed. Now, get rid of it. Get up from your inappropriate laughter fit, look in the mirror and try to bring substance to a discussion for once. You cannot emoji your way to being right.

Nice try on the deflection. I am right, and you and your other victim blaming cohorts have not offered one bit of evidence to show that any of the Epstein/Maxwell victims were are lying. It really is sad to see foxnews level posts on this site. Pathetic.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

35. My point does not in any way rely on an accusation of anyone lying ...

I took great pains to explain my position in a clear and concise way, and you honestly did not appear to grasp ... any of it.

Maybe try to read it again, one more time, slowly, and don't jump to assumptions about 'victim blaming', and recall that you started the discussion with talks of 'team of mercenaries' and Epstein being whacked in jail. As far as I know, not even VG has claimed that other girls were pimped out (not ABUSED, clearly there are a lot of victims of Epstein/Maxwell ... I said PIMPED OUT) by Epstein, other than HER. And she has named the perverts already. Long ago.

Not saying she's lying about that, but just because she was shared around ... doesn't mean other Epstein victims were. Do you have testimony/depositions to share about other girls being pimped out by Epstein to others? Go ahead and present it if you do.

Lastly, I mentioned Q because the 'there is an all-powerful elite global cabal of pedophiles' ... is LITERALLY ... the very basis of Q. And the existence of such ... is EXACTLY what you're suggesting.

Ergo, it's REEEEEALLY not that hard to figure out why I mentioned it.

PS, the the emoji is called 'silly'. Not 'downs person' or whatever the fuck thing you think it means.

Good day!

[RandPaulsNeighbor]

40. I read your post

I read all your posts twice because they were so devoid of any substance, I thought there must be a mistake. Nope, not one fact, just that you do not believe in something I never said or the multiple victims that did say something.

I said I believe Virginia and the multitude of other victims you continue to deny the existence of. I said you should, too.

I started this with a thoroughly vetted Vanity Fair article and added a possible scenario, that was clearly hyperbole, as an example of how this case ends. Based on the, already ridiculous things that have happened, it is not that far out of bounds.You focus on that to distract from your denial and lack of knowledge about this case.

You are victim blaming. You said you "think", without any evidence, that VG is lying and just out to get money. You said she is the only one to suggest that Epstein/Maxwell were trafficking girls to the connected (proven not true).

You still refuse to acknowledge that 3 victims testified to be being trafficked at the Maxwell trial. As for the others, no, Alexander Acosta took care of that. One of those elites you cannot bring yourself to acknowledge the connection to that went on to work for trump, who Epstein flew multiple times to his island and is on film surrounding with women, but your gut tells you your eyes are lying. So, stick with it, you have so far.

No one but you said Q style cabal of elites. I said, based on the well documented history of this case, that anything is possible, should be considered on the table, and many powerful men have a vested interest in this case.

Finally, Call it what you want to call it, it is a clown with asymmetrical eyes and a distended tounge. The Confederate flag is about state's rights if you ask the right person. I hesitate to ask.

I would say have a nice day, but every day is nice for someone that lives in ignorance and lashes out when they cannot emoji or bully the new guy away.

Note: You made this personal and all you have is "been here longer", "been using that offensive emoji for years", and "get me the transcripts from a sealed case that has been the subject of endless litigation for years."

No, I will rely on the three "victim"s that testified at the Maxwell trial to CONVICT her. Glad you did not make the jury box.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

50. Well, then your reading comprehension skills are laughable my friend you prove it with each post

I am NOT BlackSkimmer, that's another poster. I know her. But I am a male. I never said anything about being here longer or using the emoji for years. See how unobservant you actually are?

Literally type : Silly : into a DU message window (without the extra spaces) and hit preview. That is the 'silly' emoji, and I used it as exactly that. Derp.

"You said you "think", without any evidence, that VG is lying and just out to get money. You said she is the only one to suggest that Epstein/Maxwell were trafficking girls to the connected (proven not true)."

I never said that, that was just how you chose to interpret my words (or more likely those of BlackSkimmer) ... which was a choice on your part.

"You still refuse to acknowledge that 3 victims testified to be being trafficked at the Maxwell trial"

And for like the third time ... show me the testimony of the other girls saying they were pimped out by Epstein to other rich/famous people? 'Anything is possible' and 'it's sealed ... cause endless litigation!' does not get you out of the burden of proof for your assertions. I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just saying ... show me. That's all.

And when you show that, then we can start considering whether there actually might be a cabal of shadowy pedophiles whacking people in federal prison to maintain anonymity.

Last, your theory here OBVIOUSLY resembles Q, whether you want to admit it or not. For there to be people who'd swipe up Maxwell and whack Epstein in jail, it would have to be a powerful group of pedophiles trying to hide their identity. There's really no getting around this resemblance to the fundamental concept of QAnon, however you hem and haw and move goalposts and make up things I never said lol.

[BlackSkimmer]

53. I noticed that poster seemed to confuse us lol.

I’m flattered.

But yes, I’m a female, you’re a male…and neither of us is Q!

[BlackSkimmer]

41. Wow.

[Treefrog]

46. "Your"

[RandPaulsNeighbor]

51. Look Closer

Before you try to distract read closely. It says your. Always did.

Pathetic. Shocking, not a bit of substance, just victim blaming and defending the blamer.

[brooklynite]

8. We don't need another lazy conspiracy theory

[RandPaulsNeighbor]

11. Lazy?

Pay attention. You cannot lie in voi dire, he did. He lied about the issue at the core of the trial. He then used the thing he lied about to convince the jury to convict. Conspiracy or opportunism, either way, all options are on the table to ensure Maxwell does not flip are considered viable.

I keep seeing people say she has no leverage because the trial is over, well, it may not be and, even if the verdict stands, the right kind of information is leverage before sentencing and could lead to a deal. People have been let of prison for lesser information.

To many rose colored glasses around here. Note: it is the prosecution that has moved to investigate the jury, that is very rare and should tell you they are not as optimistic as you.

[brooklynite]

12. Not what I'm referring to...

The conspiracist in me says that a band of mercenaries for hire will show up in the first month of her home confinement and that will be the last time GM is heard from. She will find a nice new home in Russia or one of their allied countries, and all of the elites connected to this case will breath a big sigh of relief.

[RandPaulsNeighbor]

13. Cited as Hyberbole

But, the the sentiment is correct. There are any number of ways to do it, I used the most dramatic one for effect (hyperbole). I suppose you believe Epstein's guards and security cameras were jus a coincidence? By the way, the Saudis have successfully extradited multiple criminally charged citizens and the Turks have been attempting to take Fetullah Gulan for years.

[brooklynite]

14. I believe that Epstein killed himself in an underfunded jail.

A wealthy individual faced with life in an isolation cell? (sexual abusers don't do well in general population). Definitely.

And if "they" could get at Epstein, why couldn't "they" get to Maxwell?

[RandPaulsNeighbor]

16. Too Hot

I am glad you have such unwavering faith, but I have none. This case should have been resolved over a decade ago, but here we are with countless unindicted co-conspirators, Epstein dead under questionable circumstances, and the Maxwell verdict in peril.

Call me whatever you want, but the fact remains everyone involved seems to have nine lives. If you wrote a movie script or a fictional book like this case, you would be told it is too unbelievable and too unrealistic, so I do get your skepticism. I am applying that skepticism to the duel systems of justice, one for the elites, one for the rest of us.

Conspiracy or opportunism, the result could be the same; re-trial, house arrest, and Maxwell on the run. Dersh, Andrews, trump, and the rest will be giddy.

[inthewind21]

24. Most

Don't know the WHOLE story. Only the snips seen on the news. I am there with you. The Epstein story is NOT that of just sex with underage girls. It goes a whole lot deeper. And there are many other public power brokers involved. And there's plenty of photo, manifest and video evidence available. Malinda Gates filed for divorce over Bills association with Epstein. The no prosecution deal made with the FEDS in secret was the huge red flag. Hell it was a rocket explosion. Thank God for NY and their investigation kept under wraps. The stuff they hauled out of his NY home was jaw dropping. And I too am skeptical of his "suicide" how convenient, a day or two before said suicide he signed a new will and financial documents and sent ALL of his money to the Virgin islands. But hey, nothing suspicious there!

[RandPaulsNeighbor]

25. Back at Ya,

Last edited Mon Jan 10, 2022, 06:11 PM - Edit history (1)

I wish some people on here would get with reality. It is all there for the willing to have their eyes opened.

[Treefrog]

47. "There".

Words are difficult when they sound the same.

[RandPaulsNeighbor]

49. Or When Your Phone Changes the Word.

But, thanks for proving my point. You all have nothing, but your time in existence. I will fix it.

[Polybius]

26. You don't believe any conspiracy right?

Not even UFO's or JFK?

[brooklynite]

28. None that are currently circulating.

Believed in UFOs in my early days until I thought more comprehensively of the implications of travel through the immense distances of space from the prospective alien planet.

One of my biggest issues with virtually any conspiracy theory is that the "conspiracy" requires a substantial number of people to be in the know and to remain silent for an extensive time period.

[Torchlight]

33. Wannsee Conference was very successful, and a conspiracy (by defintion).

Or maybe I've been duped about it.

[brooklynite]

34. We found the Wannsee Conference records three years later.

What hard evidence has there been close to 60 years after JFK?

What hard evidence has there been about UFOs other than that people saw something unknown?

[Torchlight]

36. It was successful. The regime it worked for didn't and eventually fell.

If you're just going to keep moving the goalposts, that's just 'lazy thinking.'

[brooklynite]

38. The Wannsee conference stopped being a conspiracy theory when it became a fact.

Its not moving the goalposts to say I don't believe in claimed events without evidence that should be available.

[Torchlight]

42. No one argued a conspiracy needs to be a theory to remain a conspiracy.

Asserting as such being another example of moving goalposts.

[brooklynite]

43. But if there's no evidence, then someone suggesting it happened is offering a theory.

I, for one, don't subscribe to "we all know it happened" assertions.

[Torchlight]

44. You're now arguing against points I'm simply not making.

A conspiracy can exist independent of of conspiracy theories. That was my premise.



I for one, don't subscribe to the "I didn't read about it in Politico, therefore we all know it doesn't exist."

If that last sentence reads as pointless and without merit, it was. Windex may help.

[Polybius]

37. I fully agree with your last sentence

Last edited Mon Jan 10, 2022, 05:57 PM - Edit history (1)

The fact that people believe in a 9/11 conspiracy is silly. That would take 1,000's to be in on it. The only conspiracies this day and age that could be pulled of is if just a few people are in on it.

As for UFO, it's tough. Picture a race of beings that might average a 1,000 IQ. Perhaps the warp through a wormhole is possible. I don't know.

[brooklynite]

39. If you can hypothesize that an alien civilization is transcendentally smarter than us...

...sufficient to achieve PRACTICAL FTL travel (at 100 times the speed of light it would still take 1000 to reach the galactic center), you'd have to explain why that same technical skill couldn't mask their vehicles completely from us.

[Polybius]

48. Sure, I'll try

While they can avoid radar better than our Stealth Bombers, maybe they don't don't have invisibility (like Wonder Woman's plane) to the naked eye. Perhaps total invisibility is not possible, or not invented yet. That could be why people have seen them in the sky.


Or maybe all of those things were mistaken for something else. I have no idea.

[MoonRiver]

52. TOO many

[Irish_Dem]

10. Doesn't surprise me in the least. Too many very powerful men are involved in a

potentially devastating sex ring involving minors scandal. They have to find a way to manage it.

[Piasladic]

15. I only got called to jury duty once

I filled out an electronic questionnaire a few weeks before, and the case I was called for was for a sexual assault case. I didn't know until I got there. In the voi dire, I saw so many women ask to speak privately and go up to the judge. Most were crying and whispering. When it was my turn, I decided to be brave and talk about my abuse in front of everyone. It was an odd experience because I'd never really done it before. I remember the prosecutor asking me where it happened and I sort of innocently answered, "my mother's house." I was embarrassed when he clarified he need to know the county and whether I reported it and why not.There was a police officer (also called for jury duty) sitting next to me, and I felt bad when talking about why my family didn't go to the police.

I was the first one to speak out loud in front of every one, but there was another woman after me with the same story. I think even though we were not picked to be on the jury, it had to have had an effect on those who were. Frankly, I wonder if just our talking about it might have compromised any jury.

I never would have lied in the voi dire about that, and I certainly wouldn't have talked to the press about it. That juror, if this is true, makes me incredibly angry.

[hunter]

21. What's next, virginity tests?

I think most people have had to fend off sexual predators, successfully or not.

That makes them jury of peers.

[RandPaulsNeighbor]

22. It is Unseemly

Fortunately, the process improved somewhat. It is now a written questionnaire that asks about personal experiences and/or close familial experiences that may affect your ability to serve. But, if you answer in the affirmative, the judge asks about whether you can put aside those related experiences, in front of the other prospective jurors, and fairly judge the case strictly based on the evidence presented.

[tenderfoot]

27. Oooh lookie a fan club thread!