Pence's discomfort documented: he altered parliamentary procedure to thwart the coup plotters

[kpete]

It's 2:55 a.m. and I just figured out how Pence massaged the rules of the Electoral College counting session to avoid introducing the "rival" slates of Trump electors.

These are the instructions VPs have given out at the start in each of the last 5. Note the difference?

%3Fname%3Dsmall

This year-old, middle-of-the-night tweet — as Congress was finalizing the 2020 election — is getting a lot of renewed love today as people revisit the Trump-led effort to line up fake electors in 2020 and pass them off as legitimate.

This is how Pence worked around it:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1347089605691125760.html

Link to tweet

?s=20

Link to tweet

?s=20

So Pence avoided a coup by noting that the Parliamentarians had validated (by checking with each state’s Sec of State) which slate of electors were real and which were fraudulent?

More:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/1/13/2074589/-Pence-s-discomfort-documented-he-altered-parliamentary-procedure-to-thwart-the-coup-plotters?utm_campaign=trending

[malaise]

1. Get thee to the greatest page RFN

Excellent. He fucked up the Slobfather every which way.

[malaise]

2. Get thee to the greatest page RFN

Excellent. He fucked up the Slobfather every which way.

[Solly Mack]

3. Which means he knew what was happening, yes?

He knew about the fraudulent electors in certain states, yes?

[C_U_L8R]

4. Yes. And he needs to publicly testify.

You can't cower forever, Pence.

[Solly Mack]

17. He does need to testify, I agree.

[Irish_Dem]

6. Facing death/kidnapping focuses the mind.

But yes, it is apparent that he knew quite a bit about what was going on.

Pence was either told about the plan directly or indirectly, or figured it out.

[ewagner]

9. He knew for sure...

The questions is: Did Trump and Eastman try to enlist him in the scheme?

Eastman has a lot of questions to answer....he wrote the script so he had to "produce" the plot.

[Irish_Dem]

11. Initially yes it appears that Trump tried to get Pence onboard.

So initially Pence knew at least some of the plans.
Later when Pence balked, perhaps he was closed out of emerging plans.
But he figured it out or was told by colleagues what was happening.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

28. Ofc tRump tried to get Pence on board. The VP is the lynchpin of the count...pun intended.

[Solly Mack]

19. I think he had to be told directly since everyone knew what Trump expected from him.

Trump made that clear.

[Irish_Dem]

20. Yes but some parts were kept secret from Pence.

Trump became very angry when Pence wouldn't play ball.
So Trump stopped trusting him.

And I don't know how much Pence knew about the plans to harm him.
Obviously he knew he was in danger, but how much he knew I don't know.

[Solly Mack]

38. All the "Hang Mike Pence" chants probably gave him some clues.

[Irish_Dem]

40. Even Pence couldn't miss those.

[PatSeg]

10. It appears so

And if he knew, how many other people knew what was happening?

[Irish_Dem]

12. By all the wide smiles on the faces of some GOP MOC during 1/6 it appears

that quite a few knew what was going to happen.

[Solly Mack]

15. And why didn't he tell anyone? Why did he wait until it was obvious the violent mob

was after him as well? Did he think it could be pulled off until then?

[Irish_Dem]

22. He kept quiet because he didn't want to harm his presidential chances

and he thought he could pull it off. Then things went south fast.
But in the end he did accomplish his task very well.

My best guess here.

[PatSeg]

29. Yep, I think you're right

He was still going to attempt to protect his own political interests while trying to do the right thing, kinda. A difficult juggling act and one that could have cost him his life.

[Irish_Dem]

31. Yes it was a big gamble for him. That is why he was calling people for help and advice.

He could kill his chances of becoming president, or get killed literally.

[PatSeg]

39. The part where he called other people

asking for their advice was really disturbing to me. It was so obvious to the people he consulted what he should do. Meanwhile, he had been living in that bizarre Trump bubble for four years, so his grasp on reality was probably tenuous.

I really don't understand such an extreme obsession to become President where you would take such extraordinary risks and compromise your values and family. Maybe he thought he was on a mission from God and putting up with Trump's immorality was the price he had to pay to achieve his goals. Someone should tell him he is never going to be President.

[Irish_Dem]

43. Yes the quest for power and wealth is like an obsession or addiction.

Some people will give up everything just to gain their drug of choice.

And yes a person has to be somewhat delusional to think they can become the most powerful person in the world.

[PatSeg]

49. And in Pence's case

he is a religious fanatic, which is often more scary than those just seeking power and wealth. His quest for power is in the name of God, though I'm sure on some level, it is still about power dressed up to appear altruistic.

[Irish_Dem]

53. Right, no idea if his God thing is real or an act.

Hard to tell with these guys.

[PatSeg]

58. I do think he is a "believer"

and believers often use God as an excuse for many things. Like so many true believers, he is a hypocrite as well.

[Irish_Dem]

59. Right, that is why they are more dangerous than the fake ones.

[PatSeg]

62. Exactly

I find them to be terrifying in so many ways.

[onetexan]

101. Precisely. Power corrupts, & absolute powwr corrupts absolutely.

[PatSeg]

109. Yes, things could have started out

about doing "God's work", but that taste of power can really alter a person's perspective until he starts to believe he IS God.

[Solly Mack]

37. Hopefully he will testify.

Maybe he'll be honest.

[Irish_Dem]

47. Maybe he is afraid his life will be threatened again if he testifies honestly.

[PatSeg]

50. Yes and I think he has good reason to be afraid

The mob has not forgotten his so-called betrayal.

[Irish_Dem]

56. Yep. His life certainly could be in danger if he comes out of his bunker.

[PatSeg]

60. Just imagine what kind of security

he must have.

[Irish_Dem]

61. Right, I don't know if he has lifetime SS protection or not.

[PatSeg]

65. Apparently, it is only up to six months

after the Vice President's term in office has ended. I wonder if they can extend that due to the obvious threats to him and his family.

[Irish_Dem]

67. I haven't heard any talk about extending the SS protection.

So he must have private security details.

[PatSeg]

72. Apparently there was a bill introduced last year,

"Protecting Vice Presidents Act - H.R. 368", that would grant Secret Service protection for any former vice president and their spouse for life, as well as their children up until age 16. I can't find any indication that the bill was passed however.

From February 2021:

https://govtrackinsider.com/former-presidents-receive-secret-service-protection-for-life-should-former-vice-presidents-too-235b8749a375

[Irish_Dem]

75. I can't find any outcome on it either.

Pence has gone to ground, is holed up somewhere with private security.
I wonder who is paying for it, can be quite expensive.

[PatSeg]

95. I wonder too

Mike Pence is not a super wealthy man like some in DC.

[Irish_Dem]

97. I read that when he left Wash DC, he didn't even own a house.

He and his wife had to couch surf with friends.

I assume he can get some billionaire to bankroll him.
GOP leaders always manage to live the good life.

[PatSeg]

33. Obviously, he didn't anticipate

things getting as bad as they did and perhaps he didn't expect Trump to urge the mob to descend on the Capitol and "fight like hell".

Maybe he did tell other people and I wonder if some of them have already testified before the January 6th committee. There is still so much we don't know and I think a lot of it will be explosive.

[Solly Mack]

35. We'll know when we know, I guess.

[PatSeg]

42. Yes, that's true

Of course, I'm getting older and I sure would like to know while I'm still alive! I remember thinking Watergate was a big deal. I could have never anticipated things getting this bad in real life. If it was a novel or a movie, it would be too farfetched to be believable. Trump not only killed satire, he may have killed political thrillers as well.

[Solly Mack]

44. All true. I want to know before my time ends, too.

[PatSeg]

51. Ah well, it gives us a reason to hang in there then!

[electric_blue68]

103. Oh. I remember Watergate as a mid-late teens...

But who'd have thunk 1/6...

I remember an art exhibit here in NYC in early 2002 that had asked for people's reactions to 9-11.

I participated, and went to see the whole exhibit. Amazing pieces

There was one of a drawing of a guy in his late ?30's with a cartoon talk balloon above saying...
"That's as ridiculous as planes flying into the WTC"

Obviously some people from Clinton's departing Admin tried to warn W's people, but...

[PatSeg]

110. I guess we need to rethink

what we believe is "ridiculous" or implausible. When we looks around the world, governments fall and democracies fail, but Americans naively think such things could never happen here, because we are some kind of special, I suppose.

[L. Coyote]

52. You can go to jail for not telling the proper authorities.

In this case, that meant informing loyalists #FailedCoupGuy had installed.

18 U.S. Code § 4 - Misprision of felony

Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

THREAD:

Link to tweet

[Solly Mack]

55. Thank you.

[ancianita]

107. Thanks! Now, the GOP certificates of 5 states got sent to their district courts. So

they might argue technically that they were participating in something legit and not hiding knowledge of a felony. I think.

Pence, on the other hand...

[wnylib]

63. Put yourself in Pence's shoes. Who

could he tell? Who could he trust to deal with it? What would telling have accomplished? Trump in the WH, all his inner circle part of the plot, Trump pressuring and threatening Pence, Barr as AG. Pence did privately consult with former VPs and probably with an attorney.

Pence knew that a coup attempt would ultimately fail. He did what he could to stop it himself, probably more for his own reasons than for patriotic loyalty to the constitution and the nation. Still, under the circumstances, it took courage to act as he did. I will give him that.

[inthewind21]

78. Please

Pence gets no sympathy. Zero.

[Grasswire2]

96. Dan Quayle, evidently.

That's who he called.

[wnylib]

98. Yes, that's who he called for advice on how

to handle the situation. But the question was in regard to reporting the plan, as in finding an authority who could and would do something to stop it. But who in the Trump administration could Pence report the plan to with any hope of stopping it when he did not know who to trust?

Prince's own actions had the end effect of stopping the coup. I don't like the guy or his politics. But he was between a rock and a hard place. He made a decision to stick to his job requirement as outlined in the constitution, as Quayle advised him. That decision brought threats on his life. It also stopped that avenue to the coup.

[bucolic_frolic]

26. It's almost as if Electoral College Certification discovered double-entry accounting

Makes me think the establishment had America's back. Seems the parliamentarian knew something.

[Solly Mack]

41. We'll know soon enough.

[wnylib]

64. I wonder if Pence consulted with the

Parliamentarian and got advice on how to proceed.

[Sogo]

79. Would you please explain what you mean by the "double-entry accounting" reference?

[bucolic_frolic]

80. Double-entry bookkeeping - debits and credits

All of accounting is a check on itself. For each debit, a corresponding credit. Balance sheet a check on financial condition. Trial balance too. All of this shows where the money is, goes, went, resides. If you pull a fast one and steal 5k, it will eventually show up. Unless you have crooked auditors.

[Sogo]

81. Excellent! Great point!

Thank you!

[onenote]

85. It didn't take a lot of "discovery" -- it was publicly announced in December 2020

See post 84

[Alexander Of Assyria]

27. Yes and yes. Trump Pence obviously, and many others knew of the plot and the mechanics.

After the fraudulent list of electoral voters was cast and tRump declared re-elected…tRump would have declared martial law in response to the for certain anti-fascist protests…made violent by agents provocateurs…Sedition Boys…and the rest would have been fascist in America history thankfully never written.

[onenote]

84. It wasn't a secret that these fake certifications had been sent.

They are finally getting the attention that they deserved, but it wasn't a secret. Indeed, it was reported in the press at the time it was happening. Trump even described the effort in a court filing submitted prior to January 6.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/15/technology/fake-dueling-slates-of-electors.html

https://www.vox.com/22173990/electoral-college-trump-biden-stephen-miller

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content 840583269

The actual fake certificates were obtained via a FOIA request as early as February 2021.
https://www.americanoversight.org/american-oversight-obtains-seven-phony-certificates-of-pro-trump-electors

[Solly Mack]

86. Yes. I remember when it first hit the news.

But his addition to the statement seems to suggest more than his having read the news. To me, anyway.

Thank you for the links.

[leighbythesea2]

5. K&R

The plot thickens. & didnt the coup players want to hang him?

[wnylib]

66. How real was the hanging threat? Might have been

meant to intimidate. But with a mob mentality in action, it could have happened if the coup hadn't been thwarted by removing Congressional leaders to safety.

[Lonestarblue]

7. The other person who needs to be called to testify is Grassley.

Based on statements he made, he assumed that he would be presiding over the EC count, not Pence. On January 5, he made these comments:

“Sen. Charles Grassley (R-IA), the Senate president pro tempore, says he and not Vice President Mike Pence will preside over the certification of Electoral College votes, since “we don’t expect him to be there,” Roll Call reports.

Grassley also said he will listen to debate and that “it would be really wrong for me to say I have my mind made up.”

A spokesman later denied that Grassley thought Pence would not be present. Grassley needs to explain what he knew about the coup plan.

https://politicalwire.com/2021/01/05/grassley-says-pence-will-skip-electoral-vote-certification/

[kpete]

8. GOP Sen. Chuck Grassley on Tuesday generated a whirlwind of confusion among reporters and on social

media after suggesting that Vice President Mike Pence would not preside over the Electoral College certification on Wednesday.
https://www.businessinsider.com/grassley-prompts-confusion-over-pence-electoral-college-certification-2021-1

[Irish_Dem]

13. Maybe that was part of the plan, Pence not showing up on 1/6.

But Pence refused to be a no show?

[Evolve Dammit]

14. he must have found a spine in all the excitment. Now, not so much.

[bucolic_frolic]

23. I wonder

now hear me out. Was the Deep State a step ahead of this whole plot? Because it sure seems like all the pieces were in place, yet somehow Pence knew and wouldn't go along.

Also strikes me as curious that the DNC/RNC bomber encountered no scrutiny in the moment in one of the toniest and the most politically important neighborhoods in the country. It's a puzzle. Someone's got their fingerprints all over that plot if they ever figure out who done it.

[FakeNoose]

16. Mike Pence already knew what they were trying to do

... because CHUMP TOLD HIM! Chump tried like hell to get Pence to go along with the plan, but Pence refused.

Why the hell didn't he open his mouth and say something? Maybe he was a hero, but he was also a CHICKEN-SHIT!

[wnylib]

68. Who could he tell? All of Trump's circle and

A good portion of Congress were on Trump's side.

[FakeNoose]

69. How about the New York Times, CNN or The Washington Post?

He should have shown that he wasn't on board with this coup.

[wnylib]

73. I think that his behavior on Jan 6

did show that he was not on board with the coup.

What would have been accomplished by going to the media? How would the media have presented it and how would the public and political officials have reacted?

Going to the media would not have stopped the coup plans. Showing up and refusing to play the role that the coup planners had scripted for him accomplished the goal of thwarting the coup. Finding a way around it worked. I don't like the guy or his politics, but he played a master chess move that the media could never have done.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

88. My first reaction too. He saved us. But he could have

saved us earlier! Ah to know what Mike knows. He knows IT ALL

[leftyladyfrommo]

18. Wow! I am disliking him a little less. nt

[bucolic_frolic]

21. Pence took his job seriously, seeking advice from Dan Quayle

Democrats, DUers, do you understand that J. Danforth Quayle and Mike Pence saved democracy at that time period?

History will be very kind to these men we largely considered to be jokes. Shaking my head.

[Irish_Dem]

25. The fact he was calling around meant he hadn't made up his mind at that point.

He was still struggling and trying to decide what to do. I think he was hoping to run for president and didn't want to hurt his chances by making a bad choice. I think he was quite torn. He didn't want to go against his own party, but he also wanted to look presidential and act like a statesman.

I don't know why exactly made the correct decision, but in the end he did the right thing.

[wnylib]

71. I think he knew that ultimately an

attempted coup would not work. I don't think he ever seriously considered joining the coup. He consulted with other people in order to find a neutral path through it and came up with "just doing my job."

Sure, he considered his own political future. But I don't believe that he ever wavered. He just sought a way to avoid doing what was demanded of him.

I don't like the guy, his pompous religiosity, or his politics. His motives probably were personal rather than patriotic. But under the circumstances, his actions did require more courage than I would have thought he had in him.

[Irish_Dem]

74. Yes more than I expected of him in terms of courage and reality based thinking.

It would be intriguing to find out what was going through his mind.

Was he tempted to do what Trump wanted? He was certainly getting some promises of rewards. And punishment for failure to comply. There had to be tremendous pressure on him as he was a key piece in Trump's plan.

Or as you suggest, he was not buying into the plan from the beginning and trying to find a way out of the whole mess.

Whatever the dynamics, I guess we grudgingly have to give this guy a profile in courage award.

[wnylib]

76. Politically, his future would have been

destroyed by supporting the coup. A successful coup would have made Trump dictator for life. No chance for Pence to run for president in the future. An unsuccessful coup would have made Pence a prosecutable traitor. Not showing up for the certification would have made him a coward. The only thing that he could do was to find a path between those options that did not commit him to the coup. By getting private advice from former VPs and possibly attorneys, he found a way to take a legal stand of doing his job as described in the constitution. A fundamentalist on religion would seek out a letter of the law approach, just like seeking the literal letter of the Bible for religious positions.

In this situation, that approach was the only way out for Pence. As a by product, it saved democracy ... for the time being, at least. There are still threats and battles ahead to maintain a democrstic government.

I expect to see some grave and serious threats again, possibly more violence, before we can feel secure in maintaining the Republic that the founders established. I believe that we will experience some discouraging setbacks but if we hold our ground and keep fighting, we will win in the end. But it will be a very hard won battle.

[Irish_Dem]

77. Right he was in a no win situation for him personally and politically.

In the end he just followed the law and constitution.
Like the old saying, when in doubt, just do the right thing.

Oh yes, there will be more serious threats to our democracy. It is a perilous time. I truly do not know the outcome.

[niyad]

30. Makes me glad that I did not accidentally run mr. potato over when I had the chance.

[sdfernando]

54. IKR?

mr. potatoe-head and mama's boy!....Shees!

[Indykatie]

24. Some Will Never Give Pence Any Credit For His 1/6 Actions But It's Clear He Performed Admirably

All the whining about why didn't he tell someone or why hasn't he talked to the 1/6 committee doesn't change this fact.

[MrsCoffee]

36. Wait. People who think he should talk to the commission or have questions about why he didn't tell

anyone sooner are whining?

What the AF?

Giving credit is one thing, but that framing is ridiculous.

[Demsrule86]

99. I will always be thankful that Pence did act in an honorable way that helped save our Republic

from Trump and his minions. I think it took courage to oppose Trump knowing what would follow ...death threat towards him and his family no doubt.

[C Moon]

32. Putin probably concocted that whole plan.

I can’t see tfg being smart enough to do that.

[Irish_Dem]

45. Trump lets people know what he wants and the henchmen work out the details.

Just like Hitler.

Edit to add: But yes, Russia tells him what he wants.

[Calista241]

34. This is why I don't think the Trump campaign was behind the false elector documents.

Pence would have been in on it. They wouldn't just send fake docs over with a hope and a prayer that Pence would see the documents, recognize what they were, and follow through with their flimsy, imagined plan.

That is straight up fraud, and easily identifiable and circumventable fraud at that. The real campaign from Bannon, Stone and Kushner would have had a better, more well thought out, diabolical, and solidified plan than just throwing some fake looking documents over.

[bucolic_frolic]

46. In my view if the plot succeeded

the next VP was likely to be a relative, not a Pence. Sobering realization.

And Grassley said Pence was not going to be there.

[DENVERPOPS]

92. Exactly

Pence knew he had nothing to lose. If the performed the nefarious act, he knew Trump would throw him under the bus like countless people the previous 4 years, who had served Trump well. It didn't matter to Trump if they had showed nothing but loyalty, they had performed their function, and then were dismissed......
If Trump had been elected, (actually installed) he would have started stacking family in the Government from the V.P. position down.
VP Ivanka, anyone?

Pence knew if he had any chance to run for President, he had to first knock Trump out of office......

[onenote]

87. Trump and Miller publicly took credit for the idea back in December 2020

Last edited Sat Jan 15, 2022, 10:09 AM - Edit history (1)

I'm glad the fake certifications are finally getting the attention they deserve, but you're absolutely wrong in thinking that Trump's campaign had nothing to do with the fake certificates. Hell, Stephen Miller bragged about it and Trump described it in a court filing.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markjoyella/2020/12/14/on-fox-news-stephen-miller-says-an-alternate-set-of-electors-will-certify-trump-as-winner/?sh=59e08525711a

Link to tweet

Folks are posting as if some big secret has been revealed. The fake certificates were made public last February via a FOIA request The Archives announced on January 5 that it wasn't sending them to Congress.

It's about time they finally got the attention they've long deserved.

[Kaleva]

105. It was widely reported over a year ago the Trump Campaign was coordinating the fake electors

"ELECTION 2020|Dec 14, 2020,11:31am EST|60,045 views
Trump Campaign Assembling Alternate Electors In Key States In Far-Fetched Attempt To Overturn Election

Alison Durkee

Updated Dec 14, 2020, 03:22pm EST
TOPLINE In an unprecedented move, groups of self-styled “electors” arranged by the Trump campaign in battleground states won by President-elect Joe Biden will meet Monday to vote for President Trump and send results claiming he won the states’ presidential elections to Congress, White House advisor Stephen Miller said Monday, the latest of the president’s far-fetched attempts to challenge Biden’s victory—which, like his previous efforts, is almost entirely certain to fail."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2020/12/14/trump-campaign-assembling-alternate-electors-in-key-states-in-far-fetched-attempt-to-overturn-election/?sh=7f53e213213a

[Hekate]

48. KnR

[barbtries]

57. what am i missing?

why is he saying "purports" over and over?

[stopdiggin]

89. no idea where the wording

(or wording change) came from - but it sure is a mouthful of mish-mash. Are we saying that Pence concocted this mess himself? And on what authority?

[Mr. Ected]

70. You can see where Pence changed the wording from what Dan Quayle had advised him

Substituting the word "purporting" from Dan's Quayle's original "potatoe-ing".

*sounded funnier in my mind*

[dchill]

82. WELL.

[Cha]

83. KR

[kentuck]

90. Does that mean he knew they were forging ballots for electors?

Otherwise, why would he make such a statement?

[FakeNoose]

93. Yes he knew

Chump told Mike Pence the whole plan because he was trying to get Pence to go along with the coup. Pence refused to allow the fake ballots and the fake electors in on Jan. 6th. I guess that makes him a hero. But he's also a chicken-shit because he didn't blow the whistle on this coup attempt.

[onenote]

102. Everyone knew.

I don't know why people are acting like it was a big secret that Trump and company had concocted a plan to have fake certifications of electors sent to Congress from various states.

It was reported that this was being done at the time it was happening. Hell, Stephen Miller went on Fox News and bragged about it. Trump's lawyers mentioned it in a legal filing.

Google alternate slates of electors and December 2020 and you'll find dozens of stories about it.

The Archives received these slates and told the news media before January 6 that they weren't passing them on. It's no surprise to anyone that Pence knew about the alternate slates and it makes sense that, knowing the Archives weren't treating them as legitimate, he would address them in his statement.

See post 84.

See https://electionlawblog.org/?p=120239

[kentuck]

108. Does that make it legal now?

That nobody did anything about it then?

[onenote]

111. No. Did I say it did?

My point isn't that it was legal, it is that all the posts saying that Pence changing the wording of his statement on January 6 means he must have been "in on" some big secret ignores the fact that it wasn't a secret at all.

The fact that alternate slates were presented has become a big deal. That's good. It should've been a big deal a year ago when it first being reported. It should have been a big deal when copies of the fake certificates were made public via a FOIA request 11 months ago.

Does it sound like I think the use of the certificates was legal?

[David__77]

113. Correct - it was very public and reported on.

What’s interesting to me is Pence probably told Trump no, and he refused to take no for an answer and hoped that he would ultimately capitulate.

[The Roux Comes First]

91. With This Out There, Why in the Hell is Pence A-feared of Testifying?

He's already on record as having once stood up and exhibited a conscience and a recollection of a certain oath he took (oh, wait a minute - didn't others take that oath too?).

And hence unredeemable as far as the yam and his brain-dead hordes are concerned.

[FakeNoose]

94. Maybe he's getting death threats?

There are lot of crazy people who are going to jail for this. They're probably blaming Pence now.
It's stupid to blame HIM of course, but he's been in hiding for a solid year.

[The Roux Comes First]

100. Excellent Point, Especially Since Fauci and Others Are Being Likewise Harassed

I have been too inclined to look towards the biggest single embodiment of crime and evil, but that is not the only threat Pence and others face, and, sadly, not likely the most unhinged.

Some are likely to respond to any appearance in the public media, whether a mere reiteration of prior behavior or not.

[moniss]

104. I believe

it is fairly clear that within the short days before 1/6 they knew that Pence wasn't going along with their crooked deal. Remember that the Orange Ruski had his operatives in positions to know most everything at all agencies and that likely included the National Archives. The Senate Parliamentarian needs to be brought to the 1/6 Committee and questioned also. I would be pretty sure there was some contact from the crooks prior to 1/6 to if nothing else "feel out" whether she would go along. I also believe that shortly before Grassley made his statement about Pence not presiding there had been a meeting with certain Senators and the crooks as I recall.

I believe that it was absolutely their plan to have Pence out of the way and remember that when it was clear he was going to be at the Capitol that day the Orange Ruski went out of his way to make big bold statements about how Pence knew what to do and how he needed to do the "right thing" etc. That sick threatening way that threats were publicly made against so many by that gang of crooks during those 4 years. Remember how when all hell was breaking loose how the Secret Service wanted to whisk Pence away from the Capitol entirely but he refused to get in the car? I believe the crooks may have included the SS getting Pence out of the way and then Grassley would "step in". I believe this whole thing ran really deep.

Remember how for some strange reason Larry Kudlow decided to be out of Washington taking a vacation right then? Barr got out of town by resigning. The inner circle knew that this was being cooked up. Count on it and some didn't want to be around for it.

[BlueMTexpat]

106. This was most likely the

ONLY courageous act in Pence's life.

But thank heavens for it!

[ancianita]

112. I'd like to think Pence told Mother and she said she'd divorce him if he cheated on Jan 6.

IMO, what the Jan 6 select committee has to get documents and depositions for is

-- who came up with the electoral count double entry idea and fed it to the states;
-- who came up with presenting the double entry certifications in the Senate;
-- who told Grassley that Pence would not be presiding Jan 6;
-- who were Trump's people in the National Archives, if any;
-- did the Senate Parliamentarian know of the count plan; if so,
-- who told the Senate Parliamentarian;
-- who ordered the Secret Service to remove Pence in vehicles from the Capitol premises;

I'm sure I'm missing something. Still. And I thought this all was mere "lawyer wars."

No wonder they sweat the "deep state" in public media -- they invented it as the stealth base of their corrupt goal -- minority rule.
This is the "deep state" personnel, strategery and tactics they project onto Democrats.
Watergate looks like a tea party compared to this murderous Republican hellscape.