Something I've never been able to understand, and I hope somebody can help.

[calimary]

WHAT do so many people have against the Jewish community? WHY the anti-Semitism? WHAT is so doggone offensive?

I've tried for a long time to figure that out and I just can't.

I Just. Don't. See. It.

I Just. Don't. Get. It.

We have some seriously-world-class thinkers here. I'd appreciate some enlightenment on this.

Thank you in advance.

[634-5789]

1. Been asking that same question for 70 years....no answers yet.

[calimary]

4. I sure haven't seen any explanations - at least any that make sense

or are rooted in reality.

The only Fantasyland I give credibility to - is the one in Disneyland.

[BlackSkimmer]

2. No idea, but it's been going on for hundreds of years.

Jewish communities were even blamed for the bubonic plague back in medieval days.

[leftieNanner]

3. ...hundreds of years....

More like thousands.

It's absurd and I don't understand it at all.

[BlackSkimmer]

9. Well I suppose.

That takes us back to BC times, so who knows.

[The Magistrate]

20. Certainly For More Than Two Thousands, Ma'am

There are some choice quotes could be cited from speeches and literature of the Roman Republic, and musings by priests in Egypt who considered Exodus vile slander make spritely reading....

[calimary]

10. It just makes absolutely zero sense to me.

I understand the urge to blame some "other" for one's own problems. But as with the Black community, the Jewish community ALWAYS winds up with the short end of the stick.

I can't think up a single rationale for it that makes sense in the world of reality.

[LakeArenal]

5. Haters gonna hate.

Germans hated the same groups
Jews, homosexuals, POC.

Christians just can’t live with the fact that Jesus is a Jew. They have tried so hard make Jesus white.

Not a history person but Shakespeare says the Jews were moneylenders. Nobody likes a loan collector.

There are so many more darker skinned people in the world. Some want to keep that white entitlement that we are often painted with with a broad brush.

[calimary]

17. I know! Grew up in Catholic school. Saw a LOT of white-skinned blue-eyed Jesus images.

It wasn't taught, but the images were there. I remember even at a young age, wondering why He looked like a European when the New Testament places his birth in the Middle East - to a young Middle Eastern woman - who, herself, very likely didn't have light skin or blue eyes.

I used to spend a LOT of my time at Mass just looking at the church decor when I was a kid. The paintings and frescoes, the lavish embellishment of everything. The tapestries and statues and carvings and depictions of drapery in the clothing that was painted or sculpted (which I always had trouble trying to draw), and mosaics and other artwork. LOVED it LOVED it LOVED it! Studied it all, the way the hands were painted or sculpted, how the eyes were done in marble figures, the symbology and the cherubs and angels with grand wings, and the saints with their signature symbols - like the palms every martyr was holding. The seasonal and feast-day decorations and colors and objects, and all the gold stuff - candlesticks and chalices and so forth, and what the priests and visiting bishops were wearing. Vestments were fascinating! Their hats were fascinating. As were the altar boys (there were never ANY girls, and I couldn't help but take note of that, too).

[DEbluedude]

27. Yep. I felt the same way growing up catholic.

All the pageantry and symbols, especially around the holidays. I was in awe. Then one Sunday at Mass it struck me that it was all bullshit. I looked over at my father who was kneeling and praying, being the good catholic man that he was. The night before, he beat the shit out of me with a belt (one of many times) and I still had welts on my ass. I think that is when my critical thinking skills stated to emerge. I was nine.

One day in school, a nun "took me by the ear" and beat my knuckles raw because I asked her why only the "good Christians" would get into heaven. What about the good buddhists, muslims, and other good people practicing other religions? I was doomed. I was blasphemous. I was fucked. Confession for me!!!

It wasn't until my mid-forties that i really let it all go. One of the best things I ever did.

I'll admit that I do miss the pageantry and hymns of the easter and christmas services.

[calimary]

31. My devout Catholic mom told me about her (devout Catholic) dad doing that to her.

She said she'd go to school and her skirt would stick to the back of her legs because of the open wounds left from his beating her (and her siblings, too). This horrid beast took the cherished ice skates that her younger brother had yearned for and worked and saved up for, and threw them into the furnace to punish him for who-the-hell-knows/cares-what - and made him watch. My mom talked about how her brother sobbed.

Thinking back on that kinda explains the issues she was tormented by, and how her takeaways from that manifested.


And here's another thing that I don't get: it simply does NOT compute to do those mean and hurtful (and physically PAINful) things to kids. I can't even imagine treating my kids that way - EVER!!! And I never did. It hurts even to think about it.

[DEbluedude]

40. Yes it does. I've never laid a hand on any of my kids.

I was twelve when I got my last beating from my father. He was hitting me with a belt and I'd had enough. I turned to him and said, "Go ahead, hit me again if it makes you feel better". He never laid another hand on me. Over the years I've come to grips with that pain. My dad had issues. Hell, so do I. I think we all do. But I never have taken out my frustrations on my children.

[Progressive Jones]

29. Yes. White "Christians" are a minority in this World. nt

[harumph]

35. Jews became money lenders because they were forbidden

by the crown from owning real property (i.e., land) and trades that would
compete with the gentile tradespeople.

[LakeArenal]

36. Thanks for adding that.

[Elessar Zappa]

6. That's what I've always wondered.

In my eyes, the Jewish people have contributed greatly to the advancement of mankind. I have no idea why some people make them a scapegoat for everything.

[Mr.Bill]

7. What I don't understand

is how someone maintains blanket hatred of a group that cannot be readily identified by sight. Many groups, or races, you can immediately identify. There have been several times in my life where I was friends with someone for years without knowing they were Jewish. Now if I hated Jewish people and found out they were Jewish, am I supposed to start hating them? No matter what someone's race religion or color, I have found that we have more in common than not.

Now republicans are a whole different story in recent years.

[elleng]

8. Anything useful here?

Historically, what began as a conflict over religious beliefs evolved into a systematic policy of
political, economic, and social isolation; exclusion, degradation and attempted annihilation. It did
not begin in the Nazi era, nor did it end with the close of World War II. Its continuance over the
millennia speaks to the power of scapegoating1
a group that is defined as the “other.”
Biblical Times
Abraham, the father of three major monotheistic2
religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam), led
his family to Canaan almost 1,000 years before the Common Era (BCE), where a new nation—the
people of Israel—came into being. During those centuries before Christ, the Hebrews (the early
Jewish people) experienced intermittent persecution because they refused to adopt the religion of
the locale or ruler and worship the idols of the kingdoms of the Middle East, as was the custom
at the time. This refusal to worship idols was seen as stubborn and was resented.
Anti-Judaism
After the advent of Christianity, a new anti-Judaism evolved. Initially, Christianity was seen
as simply another Jewish sect, since Jesus and the Disciples were Jewish and preached a form
of Judaism. In the year 70 C.E.,3
the Romans destroyed the Jewish State, and most Jews were
scattered throughout the ancient world.
During the first few hundred years after the crucifixion of Jesus by the Romans, adherents of both
Judaism and Christianity co-existed—sometimes peacefully, sometimes with animosity—as they
sought to practice their faiths in the same lands.
With the conversion of the Roman emperors, Christianity became the sole established religion of
the Roman Empire, and the early church fathers sought to establish Christianity as the successor
to Judaism. The refusal of Jews to accept Jesus as the Messiah was viewed as a threat to the
Roman rulers and to Christianity. >>>

https://www.adl.org/sites/default/files/documents/assets/pdf/education-outreach/Brief-History-on-Anti-Semitism-A.pdf

[leftieNanner]

11. I had the same thought about this

I don't understand it at all.

We have a number of delightful Jewish friends. The only time I think about the fact that they are Jews is when I'm having them over for dinner and don't serve certain foods. Smart, funny, kind, generous people.

I did my DNA testing and I have about 1% Ashkenazi Jew in my heritage. Maybe that's it.

[KentuckyWoman]

12. They killed Jesus.

Yes it is stupid. But there you have it.

The Bible says the leaders of Israel sold out one of their own to save their own money and power and that the regular everyday people of Israel didn't step up to stop it - fearful they'd be next.

It is the start of the stereotype of Jews being shrewd in a negative sense, dishonest and money grubbing.

And like I said - it's pretty stupid.

[unblock]

19. A Jew died at the hands of the Romans.

They were all Jews.

So yeah, really stupid to blame all Jews for what one Jew did to another Jew, especially when it was the romans who actually killed Jesus.

From a Christian mythological perspective, I'm told that jesus had to die; part of the whole point of jesus taking human form was so he could die for our sins and so god could show his love for us by giving his only son. So was killing him actually a bad thing if it was all part of the plan?

The idea that "Jews" killed jesus is really just anti-Semitic revisionism. It wouldn't have made much sense at the time.

[Delmette2.0]

37. I thought of that also

If Jesus hadn't died for their sins, they would not be saved.

So the blame of a handful of people 2,000 years ago is still leveled against all people in their religion?

[calimary]

47. Yep. The Romans did it.

[Ocelot II]

13. It goes back many centuries, to when Christianity was adopted by European rulers.

Early Christians, when they were the out-group, been persecuted - but once they were no longer an out-group but instead part of the power structure, Jews became the out-group on account of the canard that they killed Jesus. Later, when some Jewish families became involved in banking and finance, there were also claims that they engaged in usury and other financial crimes. Since they were already the out-group suspected of Jesus-killing, it was easy to accuse them of these other bad acts as well. Both of these false accusations survive to this day, unfortunately; and I don't get it either.

[The Magistrate]

21. It Is An Interesting Topic, Ma'am

In the early days of Christianity, Roman authorities considered it to be (and rightly in my view) just one more Jewish sect, and of a sort that caused trouble in the provinces. It became very important for Christians to establish themselves as separate from Jews, particularly after the Jewish rebellion crushed by the razing of the Temple. Foundational Christian literature dates to the period, and preserves the view early adherents hoped the Romans would take, that Christians were nothing like Jews, and so not properly objects for reprisals aimed at Jews, legal or otherwise.

[abqtommy]

14. There's a LOT of informaton available on this topic. Here's a good place to start:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_antisemitism

Here's an outline at Wikipedia of the main topics covered:

1. Pre-Christian anti-Judaism in Ancient Greece and Rome which was primarily ethnic in nature

2. Christian antisemitism in antiquity and the Middle Ages which was religious in nature and has extended into modern times

3. Muslim antisemitism which was—at least in its classical form—nuanced, in that Jews were a protected class

4. Political, social and economic antisemitism during the Enlightenment and post-Enlightenment Europe which laid the groundwork for racial antisemitism

5. Racial antisemitism that arose in the 19th century and culminated in Nazism

6. Contemporary antisemitism which has been labeled by some as the new antisemitism

[hlthe2b]

15. That question really got to me as a child--especially after reading Diary of Anne Frank.

I have no answers today, either, but the questions are likewise joined with those on race, ethnicity, gender, and sexual identity.

Hate promotes more hate is all I can say.

[Jim__]

16. In Hannah Arendt's book "The Origins of Totalitarianism" she talks about that.

She talks about the role of Jews in European history. I don't know if everyone agrees with what she says and I don't know enough about European history to fully agree or disagree.

According to her, the Jews in Europe lived in various countries but remained segregated as a separate community. This had some advantages for the leaders of the Jewish community. At that time, Christians were not allowed to lend money for interest, but Jews could. Rich Jews lent money to aristocrats and, of course, this brought them closer to these people. Also, since Jews were spread across Europe, in various countries, and rich Jews tended to know powerful people, they often advised princes. If two princes were fighting each other and one wanted to sue for peace, the easiest way was often to ask a Jew in his court to talk to a Jew in the other prince's court.

This led to the development of conspiracy theories about Jews not participating in wars but profiting from them, about Jews not having any loyalty to the territories they were living in, etc. Once these types of stories exist about people, they tend to keep these people as easy targets for politicians.

It's been a long time since I read that book, and I'm sure my recall of what she said is not completely accurate. I do know that she discusses that topic. The book is long and difficult to read, but reading it would give you some background.

[A HERETIC I AM]

24. I had read years ago that because they kept themselves separate...

From the rest of the populations where they lived, they were much less susceptible to sickness and plague.

Because they kept kosher and followed cleanliness guidelines that most other Europeans of that time did not, they didn’t suffer the same fate during the Black Death and other pandemics. This made them suspect in the eyes of the rest of the population and in some instances were accused of being in line with Satan.

Intentionally separating yourselves from
The rest of society is bound to raise acrimony.

[Beastly Boy]

44. Historically, the Jews didn't separate themselves.

The Jewish diaspora, no matter where you look, being a shunned minority, wasn't powerful enough, culturally, economically or politically, to create barriers between themselves and the people they were surrounded by. The only separation they needed was on religious grounds: to maintain the covenant with their God, which was the core of their identity. All other barriers were created and maintained by the religious, cultural and political institutions of their host countries. In fact, whenever the host country of Jewish Diaspora took steps to eliminate these barriers, assimilation followed.

This is true for both Christian and Islamic antisemitism, as well as secular antisemitism.

[CrispyQ]

18. I assumed it was because of the claim to be God's chosen people.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/chosen-people

[Beastly Boy]

45. "God's chosen people" is an antisemitic trope.

Antisemites continue to falsely interpret this to mean that Jews consider themselves to be superior to other people. Nothing can be further from the truth. As your link demonstrates, the meaning of "chosen people" is exactly the opposite of its antisemitic interpretation: it denotes additional burdens on the Jews rather than additional privileges.

This doesn't stop antisemites, however, from using the phrase as a rallying cry to generate animosity towards the Jews.

[ShazzieB]

22. Thee have already been some great answers, but I just want to add one thing.

I want to put in a plug for a great book on this subject.

Antisemitism, Here and Now, by Deborah Lipstadt: https://g.co/kgs/o9WDWs

From the publisher's website:

The award-winning author of The Eichmann Trial and Denial: Holocaust History on Trial gives us a penetrating and provocative analysis of the hate that will not die, focusing on its current, virulent incarnations on both the political right and left: from white supremacist demonstrators in Charlottesville, Virginia, to mainstream enablers of antisemitism such as Donald Trump and Jeremy Corbyn, to a gay pride march in Chicago that expelled a group of women for carrying a Star of David banner.

Over the last decade there has been a noticeable uptick in antisemitic rhetoric and incidents by left-wing groups targeting Jewish students and Jewish organizations on American college campuses. And the reemergence of the white nationalist movement in America, complete with Nazi slogans and imagery, has been reminiscent of the horrific fascist displays of the 1930s. Throughout Europe, Jews have been attacked by terrorists, and some have been murdered.

Where is all this hatred coming from? Is there any significant difference between left-wing and right-wing antisemitism? What role has the anti-Zionist movement played? And what can be done to combat the latest manifestations of an ancient hatred? In a series of letters to an imagined college student and imagined colleague, both of whom are perplexed by this resurgence, acclaimed historian Deborah Lipstadt gives us her own superbly reasoned, brilliantly argued, and certain to be controversial responses to these troubling questions.

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/533182/antisemitism-by-deborah-e-lipstadt/

I haven't finished reading this book yet, but it's already answered a lot of my questions, including some I didn't even think of!

[chowder66]

23. They need to hate to feel better about themselves.

They have low self-worth and will not seek help.
So they target their own hatred onto everyone else. What they need to do is examine who truly is making them feel worthless. Most likely it's their own kind. Their own policies. Their own ideologies that cause them the harm. The don't want to admit that.

[demigoddess]

26. I was told it was because they would not accept Jesus as the

son of God. But then Jews were the first to recognize God. Anti semitism is stupid!!

[calimary]

25. Thanks for all this input.

It's all helpful. But it still leaves me shaking my head.

[pwb]

28. Recently the creation of Israel and them having to fight

ever since to exist doesn't help the cause.

[WaterSong1951]

30. One clarification needed about Jewish people being moneylenders

In many European countries Jews were not allowed to own land and were forced to handle what was considered beneath others - lending and handling money

[Wounded Bear]

32. It goes way back...

For one, the Catholic Church promulgated the "Jews killed Jesus" meme since way back in the Dark Ages.

Added to that was that Christians were prohibited by the Church to lend money at interest back in the Middle Ages. That led to all the banking being done by Jewish people, and the "love" for bankers goes way back too. There were several large Jewish families that basically financed much of the activity wrapped around the Age of Exploration.

Then there's the 'haters gonna hate' folks who look around and find just about anyone they can label as different, and thus dangerous.

Another point is that the Jewish people, having been systematically hated throughout much of European history tend to isolate themselves and their religious practices are kept fairly private. That leads them to be thought of as a "secret society" and we know that is always thought of as evil.

[llmart]

33. I don't have any answers but...

maybe you could ask Mel Gibson why he hates Jewish people. (I used to like some of his movies but when I found out how antisemitic he was I never went to another one of his movies.)

[myohmy2]

34. my...

...uneducated response would be tribalism, along with our innate ability to dehumanize those not in our tribe...

...tribe's having a problem?...it must be coming from god or another tribe...since we can't see god, a neighboring tribe will do...

...if the tribe is smaller, more talented, more affluent, more different, more abuse-able, there's our problem...how else would you explain our tribe's problem?

...we're just hairless apes pretending we're not...

...today we may be capable of launching a missile but it's really just swinging a stick...

...

[TreasonousBastard]

38. Very close to my usual answer...

I never considered any form of bigotry as rational. If it was rational, it wouldn't be bigotry.

If I don't like kosher food because I don't like the preparation, it is taste and choice, not bigotry. Especially if I like bacon and lobster. If I don't like you because you follow kosher rules, that is bigotry.

As unfinished humans, we are hopelessly tribal. This may have been useful millennia ago when we were first being roused out of our mammalian past, but now causes more trouble than it is worth.

Jews? Before anyone heard much of them they were considered clever jokers by Egyptians, Babylonians, Assyrians and whoever else was around at that time. At any rate, they were homeless at a certain point, and largely irrelevant to many powers of the time. This was to their advantage until they were blamed for their own misfortune. They eventually fell for a mythology blaming them for just about everything bad that happens.

[Behind the Aegis]

39. How much time do you have?

Some posters have already made some good comments and a really good suggestion for a reading.

Some highlights: Jews are seen an insular people, especially in the ancient days. Of course, they weren't even the only religious or ethnic group to do so but seemed to really piss people off. Because of kosher laws, Jews were very particular about food, food preparation, and cleanliness, and this was seen as arrogance.

The whole "Chosen People" thing, completely misunderstood, even here, is used to decry "Jewish supremacy". While there are some who think the Jews are the be all to end all, that is not what the phrase means. This has become popular as a weapon to hate Jews.

"Christ killers" is a big one, especially in the Catholic religion, but it does apply to other forms of Christianity, as well. Others above have addressed this, so I won't unless you need some follow up. Though rare, this has also appeared in some Muslim anti-Semitism as Jesus was seen as prophet.

The whole money-lenders issue is a big one, largely due to the Church, as explained above. This has led to scads of "Jews & money" stereotypes.

Because there is a long history of anti-Semitism, when scapegoating comes along, Jews are an easy target because there is already an established pattern of hate for the above reasons.

Jews are blamed for the Sunni-Shia schism among Muslims. Called "People of the Book", Jews were not exposed to the virulent anti-Semitism of Christian Europe, but the anti-Semitism was there and wasn't always subtle, despite the whitewashing one hears from apologists. There were anti-Semitic pogroms throughout the Middle East, and North Africa, they just weren't as common as the ones in Europe, nor are they as well known.

False information about our dietary practices, which lead to one of the more infamous bigotries, "blood libels", which have gone on for centuries, and are still active today, sometimes, people simply substitute "Israel" for Jews and this seems to get a pass, but it is still anti-Semitism. The most current example: COVID-19! It is this stereotype which might seem similar to Satanism; well, I forgot to add, that Jews are thought to be in league with Satan (or even we control him!!).

The money lending/control tropes, of course, led to charges of controlling capitalism; this one is still used often. On the flip side, we are also claimed to be behind other things like socialism and communism, sometimes the charges are made during the same time frame.

We are accused of race-mixing or encouraging it in order to overthrow the majority, and, in an odd way, this is also tied to our "control" of the slave trade. These stereotypes are used against by a variety of people, often to pit us against other minorities.

Any country which faced a military defeat often blamed the Jews for being underhanded, working with the enemy, or "stabbing the host country in the back", as well as being more loyal to other governments (sound familiar?!). Along the same vein, we are considered rabble-rousers, puppeteers, and wars break out because that is by our design in order to make a profit. This also is charged as "Jews are responsible for all wars" (or most)....again, sound familiar?

Then there is "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", which I do suggest you read, because that is a true tell-all of what people think of the Jews. Of course, it was a forgery, but it is still popular and quoted.

The Holocaust was based on racial issues, and it also spurred modern anti-Semitism, with charges like Jews were behind it to establish Israel, we went to the death camps to extort white nations, we use the memory of the Holocaust to get away with other acts of evil, and on and on. This could be several paragraphs long.

I will be honest with you, some anti-Semitism is because Jews aren't seen as a racial minority anymore, therefore, it is acceptable to discriminate (or transfer it onto other Jewish entities) or at least minimize/downplay anti-Semitic acts. Also, because many Jews are white or seen as white, bigotry against us is dismissed or we are accused of making it up or crying wolf, thereby allowing acts of anti-Semitism to get a pass.

I could go on, but that should explain quite a bit.

[MissMillie]

41. the "other" is scary to some people

and there are public figures who make sure that the "other" is scary to people

doesn't matter what the exact "other" is.

that's all I got.

[dwayneb]

42. Seems clear to me

Hatred of Jews over the last hundred years or more has become one of the best tools in the box for Fascists and extremists all over the world. They are convenient, that's all.

Here in America Neo-fascists use Muslims, Liberals, gay people, black and brown people, Mexicans in exactly the same way as Jews.

[milestogo]

43. There is a book called Faith and Fratricide by Rosemary Radford Ruether

Since the Nazi holocaust took the lives of a third of the Jewish people of the world, the Christian Church has been engaged in a self-examination of its own historical role in the creation of anti-semitism. In this major contribution to that search, theologian Rosemary Radford Ruether explores the roots of anti-semitism from new perspectives.

She is a Christian feminist theologian who is married to a Jew.

Christianity isn't the only feeder for anti-semitism, but its a major one.

[JudyM]

46. Adding a cross-post from another DUer for more reflection on the problem...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016311390

[calimary]

48. Sheesh, you guys! What a great thread you turned this into!

So many seriously intriguing, enlightening, informative, and fascinating posts!

Reading it over again - SOOOOO much good thinking and analysis here!

THANKS!

[ripcord]

49. There are some great points here

The anti-semites I don't understand are the ones that blame all Jews for the actions of Israel.