Read a post that said DU sucks.

[sheshe2]

To many of us old peeps and we need new blood. We need to go.

I disagree. Us old peeps are the ones that vote 100% Democratic. My mom did til the day she died. We need more of us. Why? The youngsters don't vote.

They seem to want purity and free stuff. If they don't get that then they refuse to vote. Me, the elders never demanded free stuff. We worked. We worked hard.

That is all.

[Nevilledog]

1. Want free stuff?

Ummmm.....

[sheshe2]

12. You don't know?

Yikes.

[Nevilledog]

17. Meaning what exactly?

[sheshe2]

27. You said ummmm.

I assumed you did not know.

[Pinback]

34. "If you want free stuff,

vote for the other guy.” - Mitt Romney, 2012.

I knew that sounded familiar.

[cilla4progress]

2. Makes me wonder

why they are here?

I mean, it's voluntary!!

[sheshe2]

13. Yep.

[Hekate]

3. Probably the same one I saw. You are right.

We are, and always have, tried our best.

God help us all.

[sheshe2]

6. Same one.

Ali of us have tried so hard. We vote and most times they do not.

DU doesn't suck. So many good people here.

[electricbro45]

4. I think DU is pretty cool.

I have been reading for many years and only recently decided to start commenting. I however would say that DailyKos needs to lighten the fuck up! As a liberal site, they are pretty damn controlling, PC centric and oh so easily bothered and triggered anytime someone has a different opinion from the group consensus. I hate mob rules shit, and that is why I think Reddit is also pure shit; because if you have a different idea, you get torn to shreds. Not a good look for the party, or liberals in general.

[WhiteTara]

18. I love learning new things and finding out I was

incorrect and then finding the truth is exhilarating. Buddhists love debate and consider the loser of the debate the winner because they learn something new.

This is one of the reasons I have been here since 2001 (I changed my name and lost my post count and sign on date) and for the most part people here are incredibly helpful and kind and generally very very funny.

Welcome to the fray and I look forward to seeing you around.

[tiredtoo]

50. Ditto

Wait until the primaries, if you want to see some infighting here.

[electricbro45]

54. I also post on DKOS

But lately, I am fucking tired of that group. They have a stick up their ass; not everybody, but too many. If you have a differing opinion you get shit on. That is not how to keep the goals of the party, or liberalism together. The gop is ass, but even those dickheads stick together on their trash. WE NEED TO DO THE SAME! That is my opinion, but as humans, we are all individual and have our own views. I think we can all do a better job of at least respecting others views. I am not saying if they are anti-COVID anything, or fascists, but just general differences on how each of us sees things.

[GoneOffShore]

101. I haven't been on DailyKos for at least 3 years. I liked it, but not enough.

[sarcasmo]

5. Been here 18 years, and my gray hair is staying.

[A HERETIC I AM]

14. I joined about a year before you did....

Hard to believe I was in my forties when I started posting here.

Now I'm in my.....forties. I'm still in my forties. Yeah.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[sarcasmo]

21. Mid 30's when I started posting on D/U.

[sheshe2]

30. Lol!

You funny.

I am staying where I am staying when I joined.

[WhiteTara]

38. My doctor told me my inner self is 30

and I knew for sure that it's true! I'm still just 29 even though my hair is silver and my face has wrinkles...I was in my 50s when I found DU and thought I was still a teenager.

[sheshe2]

51. I miss you,

[WhiteTara]

79. ...

[Buckeye_Democrat]

7. Free stuff? It's called reparations for being born...

... into a world of climate change.

Working burns calories, which means more exhaled CO2. So pay up!

[FakeNoose]

8. Did somebody post this here on DU? Or maybe somewhere else?

I haven't seen this post if it's on DU. Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Maybe you read it on Facebook or Reddit, (or somewhere) and you thought we should know.

[applegrove]

9. I would like to see the troll.

[sheshe2]

15. It was here.

[Hekate]

41. Someone was amusing himself with trolling -- got a long thread out of it, too

So it goes.

[summer_in_TX]

10. That kind of uncalled for remark makes me think of the warning.

Those trying to sow dissension were taking aim at both sides, left and right, trying to push on any areas where they could successfully drive a wedge.

[applegrove]

11. Sounds like a troll. For years right wing had been trying to get DU

to change its rules about only allowing center &/or left posts. They would love to gum up our works. Putting the fig leaf of ageism on it sounds like more of of the right wing desire to destroy anything real so they can insert their false creation myths.

[krkaufman]

64. Honestly...

I don’t see how the OPost this thread is any better. Just division.

[sheshe2]

74. My post has nothing to do about division.

[muriel_volestrangler]

100. Here's the part where you are divisive:

"The youngsters don't vote.

They seem to want purity and free stuff. If they don't get that then they refuse to vote. Me, the elders never demanded free stuff. We worked. We worked hard."

it's one thing to criticise the troll who said DU sucks. It's another to generalize as you have that "the youngsters" are the problem with the world. I know that people have been saying things like that for as long as civilization has been around (you can find ancient Romans saying it), but it's not helpful to perpetuate it.

[empedocles]

108. ' . . . ancient Romans saying it' - Sristotle also

'Aristotle On Youth – Jimmy Akin
jimmyakin.com/2005/02/aristotle_on_yo.html
Aristotle On Youth. Speaking of Aristotle’s (blindingly obvious) observation that young people are reckless and like to have fun, here’s his description of young men and their character. Sound like . . .

[Voltaire2]

177. Yeah that's not divisive at all.

WTELF?

[applegrove]

87. That was probably the point to get one group against another going. Don't you think? n/t

[cilla4progress]

16. I am gonna say that i know alot of very involved

young people. They care. They vote. They are trying to live ethically and their future on earth is very scary.

[sheshe2]

20. Thank you, I agree.

We are being trolled by those saying otherwise.

The oldsters here? We are not old and in the way. If not for us the kids would have nothing.

[inthewind21]

158. WOW

Are you intentionally trying to talk down from your high horse? If not for us oldsters kids would have nothing? Seriously? What exactly did you oldsters provide? Union Jobs? Oh wait, gone. Pensions? Oh wait those gone too. SS, well it's not completely gone yet but the "youngsters" can't start collecting until 70. Life expectancy in the US 78.8. Great job there. Affordable housing? Oh wait, none of that either. Affordable healthcare? Nope, nadda. Decent wages? Nope not that either. And the list goes on. So do tell exactly what did "oldsters" provide for the generations that came after?

[jcgoldie]

19. Kudos to the older generation but...

"Youngsters want free stuff" is just ageism in reverse. We were them once. They are no different, maybe even wiser than we were then...

[sheshe2]

24. Not really.

When did we ever ask for free stuff?

The right to vote and the right over our own Bodies. It wasn't easy or free. We fought for our lives and we are still losing,

[jcgoldie]

26. well

I work with HS kids every day for the past 20 years. Anecdotal certainly, but I do not recognize this stereotype you are pushing on them now or then.

[sheshe2]

35. Sorry if I offended you.

I know what is right and wrong and so do the kids in my family. I am pushing nothing .

The poster I read was ageist. They said we need the young ones here and the rest of us were and and in the way.

[jcgoldie]

39. Well hey...

Nothing wrong with Old and In the Way!

[sheshe2]

42. We are still the teachers.

We are not old and in the way. We know history.

We vote for our children.

TY, jcgoldie.

[tiredtoo]

90. Absolutely EOM

[FailureToCommunicate]

47. Another "oldie"... from Charlie Poole...

[Sympthsical]

80. You didn't have to ask for free stuff, because you were given it

Did your college education cost six figures? Did public schools charge you $20k+ a year in tuition and materials when you were 18?

At least recognize there was a ladder as it's being pulled up behind you. That would be the least expectation of awareness in a liberal, I would think.

[obamanut2012]

133. I am an older GenXer

We got nothing like what our parents got. Like you said, the ladder was pulled out. We were the first generation EVER with a lower standard of living and opportunities than the generation before. Millennials, and Zoomers are getting hit with it now. WE didn't "work" as much as some of the older folks here because we were too busy working three PT jobs and going without medical and dental while we did that. I didn't own a car until I was 35 because of my student loans, which my poor parents thought were grants, because HEY! that's what they got.

So, thank you, Sympthsical for saying that. This OP made me see fucking RED.

[Sympthsical]

150. Very similar situation

My partner is in his mid-40s and still has loans from his PharmD. I didn't pay my loans off until well into my 30s. So yep, you and I had similar experiences.

What gets me about all this debt as well is this response: "Well, if you couldn't afford it, you shouldn't have done it!"

Like it was much of an option. It was absolutely drilled into us that you needed college to be successful and have a good standard of living. High school was completely structured towards getting into a college. Society was pressuring teenagers who don't know how to balance a checking account to sign for loans for tens of thousands of dollars. I remember when I was a college freshman. No one told me, "Oh yeah, you'll be paying for this for the next twenty or thirty years."

And now, we just accept it. "Oh yeah. I'm going to be paying this for the next twenty or thirty years." As if that's totally normal. The system isn't the problem. No, no. The people getting screwed by it are the problem. They're so demanding!

Oh yeah, absolute RED. I'm all over this thread because it pissed me off so hard to see this completely oblivious attitude towards what the world has been like for decades. Decades, and people still haven't noticed.

[obamanut2012]

247. If you ever feel the call

This would make a good OP.

Like you, the expectation me me and all my friends was to go to college. College and grad school gave me a good career I like, but $$$.

[inthewind21]

160. You and me both

That the generation of our parents can actually say shit like that with a straight face is nothing short of delusional. And hey, if the op wants to take credit for something, how about the FACT that all of what they were GIVEN and have convinced themselves they worked for while everyone other than their own kids (of course) wants free shit, well newsflash it was ALL done on THEIR WATCH!

[obamanut2012]

248. THANK YOU YES

My parents FINALLY got it a few years ago, when my niece and nephew had so many problems after college. They apologized to me and my sister.

[radius777]

187. +1. As an Xer I agree. Boomers simply don't get this

and the rage and desperation that is driving the younger generations.

Boomers grew up in a relatively safe and prosperous environment created by FDR and the Greatest Generation. They had the Cold War and Vietnam to deal with, but overall the West was in good shape compared to now.

All we Xers got was consumerism, Reaganism, crack pipes and crystal meth and a hollowed out economy and rising cost of living. We were told that the manufacturing jobs were leaving, but there would be limitless 'high tech' jobs for the future. Now followed by what the gen Y and Z are getting which is even less than we got. That is why so many have turned against 'the establishment' because they feel empty and betrayed.

[obamanut2012]

249. Absolutely this

[misanthrope]

225. Huzzah

[obamanut2012]

250. .....

[Generic Brad]

219. I did get that one block of government cheese during the Reagan administration

I also remember the honorary scholarship I got from the Republican governor of Minnesota that awarded me the princely sum of $0.00. I remember a prime rate of around 21% and the student loan money I borrowed to stay afloat translated to roughly the average student loan balance in today's dollars. I remember not being able to get a credit card because it was legal to blacklist liberal arts majors from getting credit. I remember that I got zero Social Security survivor benefits because they changed the rules a few months before my dad died while my cousin received full benefits through grad school even though her dad died a few months earlier than mine did. I remember a government that didn't provide any consumer protection and getting screwed over by one cruel employer and unethical business after another in ways no one would even comprehend today. I remember my rent being 60% of my take home pay and my student loans eating up an additional 25% to the point where I went days without eating each month and aware I did not qualify for food stamps.

Yeah. I'm just rolling in free stuff from my youth.

[DFW]

99. I find it depressing that we have to fight for things that were a given 20 years ago

The right to vote or the right to terminate a pregnancy safely were not things we had to worry about twenty years ago. Now they are. That's a big "what's wrong with this picture?"

As for the "free stuff," I think that is a small minority, even if they do make a lot of noise. The "everything is free in Germany" crowd is still around, but facts do tend to knock them down a peg. I live here (Düsseldorf), am married to a German social worker, and know only too well what is free here (practically nothing) and what is not. Quoting selectively edited web sites from San José or Peoria isn't going to change facts on the ground here.

As for the young people one encounters, that will obviously depend on whom one talks to. On the bright side, at least, I will put up my meager contribution: one of my two daughters has opted to live in the USA, and has lived in crappy apartments when she had to, but she "had a plan for that:" she pounded the pavement in Manhattan to find work to enable her to not ask us for extra help. She is now almost 40, married, one child, and has found work that supports the way she wants to live. She votes straight Democratic, of course. So does her sister, who lives in Frankfurt am Main (works for a New York firm), but has kept her US citizenship. She has become a star in her field, has joined the 1%, but that's only because she is good at what she does. A neighbor already called her "madame 10,000 volts" when she was 2, and she hasn't lost any of her charge since then. Neither my wife nor I are like that. Her DNA must have undergone some mutation in utero.

My brother's two sons both live and work in the USA (when the younger one isn't stationed in Nigeria in the Hausa area, helping with infrastructure, while dodging Boko Haram). Two more solidly Democratic voters. They both work for a living, too. They live modestly, but haven't asked for a thing since they got out of college.

Now, I realize that using my family as an example is no more representative of American youth as a whole than the ones who think they are entitled to free everything because they think that kids in Finland (or wherever) have it. But I would be wary of using either as a "typical" example of American youth. We are a pretty diverse country, and there are as many stories as there are young people.

[Act_of_Reparation]

122. Yes, really.

You are denigrating entire generations. And unlike them, you're doing it from a position of relative privilege. That's textbook ageism.

[obamanut2012]

135. Boom

Exactly. Thanks.

This OP is beyond insulting and inappropriate, and I am shocked so many replies are agreeing with the OP.

[George II]

205. Old age is a position of relative privilege?

[BradAllison]

168. Joe Manshion thinks child care is "free stuff".

Does the OP agree.

[progree]

22. Quote from profile: "DU sucks lately"

It wouldn't be that person. Naaaaah. Probably just coincidence.

[oasis]

23. They need to grow the hell up and face reality. nt

[JHB]

25. What exactly is the source of "more of us" without the youngsters?

What were their complaints and criticisms? Did you listen? Did they feel listened to, or brushed off?

What counts as "purity and free stuff"? I failed "mid reading" in junior High, so I'll need a few particulars about what you mean by that to comment constructively.

I've been on DU for about 10 years longer than you have, and I come to it with a different background. I'm lucky enough that Mom's still around, but I don't know if she ever voted Democrat. My family background is conservative; Bill Buckley fans. Being a Democrat wasn't a legacy for me, it was a decision. I have had and continue to have a great many beefs with the policies and messaging Democrats have had over the last 30 years, but I'm still here.

You sound like you're in a funk. Talk to me, I'll get you through it.

[left-of-center2012]

28. Any post like that would not last long

It would quickly be alerted on and deleted.

[sheshe2]

37. Nope!

[iemanja]

29. This is a format that appeals to older Americans

Young people use flashier apps. If the older generations left, DU would be vacant.

I have a suspicion that the poster who made that comment may be on the older side themselves. It's probably a situation of their hating that others have points of view that differ from their own.

[mcar]

31. I saw that post

I've been on DU for 20 years and have been working and fighting for Democrats for even longer.

Despite TFG and all the damage he caused, Younger folks don't seem to realize that the perfect is the enemy of the good. The "I didn't get my pony" crowd is alive and well.

When will people learn?

[sheshe2]

58. Yes they still want their pony.

[Sympthsical]

82. LGBT equality was called a pony for years

Do you really want to go with that verbiage to address real concerns?

You do realize you actually want people to vote for our party, right?

You're laying down all the greatest hits in this thread. "How Not To Attract More Voters, Vols. 1-8"

[Demsrule86]

102. That is not really true...and LGBT equality has not been achieved either...we still have a fight on

on our hands...make no mistake about that. My issue with this sort of poster and I assume voter is that they seem to equate the Democratic Party with Republicans and their vote is up for grabs which means we lose elections. I would say that happened in 2000, 2004 and if course the year that changed everything 2016. Vote Democratic always...I have no use for third parties. These folks need to start at the grassroots level and change hearts and minds in red and purple states-all states really...and won't succeed until they stop demanding power they have not earned at the ballot box.

[Sympthsical]

103. It is absolutely true

Source: Gay man. Lived through it.

When we had the gall to put the slightest bit of pressure on a politician, we just wanted a pony. And if we didn't get that pony, we were just being petulant about everything. Imagine. Being petulant about one's life and equality.

I always vote for Democrats in elections. However, I do not dismiss people's real needs, social and economic, as free stuff and ponies, which is what the OP did.

It's dismissive, callous, and betrays a total lack of caring.

Some people are liberals. Others wear blue shirts. Sometimes those are exclusive things, unfortunately. And the strictly shirts are readily identifiable by this stuff.

[obamanut2012]

138. Folks on here called it a pony, and poutrage, and everything else

IRL people said it to my face.

Thank you for this post.

[BlackSkimmer]

123. This.

Spot on.3

[questionseverything]

227. I honestly wonder if the goal is to attract voters

Or to run them off

[obamanut2012]

136. JFC

Just stop.

[denbot]

32. I've been Democrat'in since before it was the Bee's-Knees' by George!

I'll stand in any line, for any amount of time to vote, every single time.

[L. Coyote]

33. I'm old enough to know what to ignore.

[sheshe2]

53. Hope that is not me, L.Coyote.

Ignore, yet have none on ignore.

Hugs

[L. Coyote]

86. What, not who.

[Farmer-Rick]

40. I'm an oldster but I got free stuff

I got $300 a semester tuition at good colleges. I got summer factory jobs that let me save up for college. I got to work as a waitress and was still able to afford a car, rent, food, clothes and college tuition.

The federal student loans I got were deferred interest, at rock bottom interest rates. I got a good paying defined benefits pension plan after working for 20 years.

I got cheap cars, half decent pay and low rent while I tried to raise my family. I got good tax deductions for every child and for mortgage interest. I got no taxes on my stepdaughters social security, loan forgiveness or for making less than $20,000 a year on my side hustle.

My parents had good pensions and benefits, so I didn't have to pay for their care at the end of life.

I didn't have to worry about the earth melting away or if my children would curse me for bringing them into a dying world so that some filthy rich man could make an extra few bucks.

Millinials can not and did not get any of those things. They don't want free stuff. They just want the same stuff we got.

PS DU is great because as long as you don't bad mouth Democrats, you can talk about most anything and have a very good discussion.

[stopdiggin]

61. thanks. the 'free stuff' thing is not only offensive

but it is also just plain damned wrong.

(not to mention a solidly Republican trope - and a big favorite with the right wing talk shows)

[Just_Vote_Dem]

109. +1000

Every time I hear "they want free stuff", I think Republican-and I'm usually right.

[Sympthsical]

93. I wish this was made into an OP

People complaining about "young" people wanting free stuff don't realize that they themselves received this free stuff, and it has been taken away from those who came after.

We're simply asking for a restoration of opportunities afforded to our parents and grandparents.

[obamanut2012]

142. So, I agree -- I hope that poster makes it an OP

[Bettie]

120. Thank you!

Very well said.

I do find it odd that the people who scream loudest about ageism are the same people who think those younger than they are are worth exactly nothing.

[Farmer-Rick]

124. And I didn't even mention health care

How it only cost me $50 to go to the doctors and $10 for my medicine.

Yeah, money was worth more back then but most everyone could dig up $50 if they had to. Being sick did not bankrupt you.

My wife was in and out of the hospital when she was pregnant with our youngest. My health insurance covered it all, with hardly any bills to pay after.

Things are much worse today for everyone.

Some oldesters have just forgotten and claim it was all their own hardwork. It wasn't. They got a lot help from the regulations enforced by our government.

[Bettie]

128. But, if you mention that

you are somehow "disrespecting" older people.

I don't get it. I want the world to be better for people coming after me, but as a GenX person, I saw the ladder of opportunity being lifted out of my reach just as I was entering adulthood.

Started college with low tuition that had more than tripled by the time I finished. Now? My kids' tuition/room and board for one year is more than I paid for my entire education. They are at a state university, with in state tuition.

We're fortunate to have decent health insurance, but we still pay a lot since we seldom meet our out of pocket max (and lucky we are not to have major health problems). God forbid you need dental work, even dental insurance doesn't cover much more than cleanings and the occasional filling.

And yes, people used to get a lot of help from regulations enforced by the government. But, of course the problem is all those damned kids...SMH.

[obamanut2012]

141. Gen Xer here

An older one, and we got hit like the poor Millennials did, too, we just thought it was supposed to be that way, and we were told to suck it up and basically did, happy for any shitty, abusive job that basically paid bills and had some type of health insurance. JFC we worked fucking harder at so many shitty PT jobs for so long, after being saddled with student loans and a shitty as fuck economy.

Why the FUCK is wanting the same rights and resources that other countries have wanting "a pony" or "wanting free stuff."

My parents, Boomers, are who got the "free stuff" and teh subsidized stuff. They FINALLY understand that.

OP should be ashamed of her words.

[Farmer-Rick]

175. Yeah Gen X didn't get a free ride either

Glad your parents have caught on.

It has been going down hill eversince Raygun. We Baby Boomers were the last generation to actually have a decent job market to work and raise our family in without the federal government working against us.

When Raygun joked, " I'm from the federal government and I'm here to help you."

He really meant, "We, the filthy rich, are so going to screw the average American from now on."

[LoisB]

43. The world needs us old folks and it needs the youngsters. Anyone who said DU sucks doesn't

know "sucks". I think the youngsters are used to instant gratification and we oldsters are used to change and gratification taking time. My humble opinion only.

[Hekate]

44. We shall live to see better days. Yes.

🌺🌺🌺🌺🌺🌺🌺🌺

[orangecrush]

45. "OK, Boomer"

[tiredtoo]

46. Let's not start a battle tween

young Democrats and old peeps Democrats. The post that said DU sucks was intended to do this and should be removed. That is all.

[sheshe2]

69. I didn't start it and it wasn't removed.

I am and old Dem. I fought with them. They need to fight for me and mine, our bodies ourselves.

Free college is bullshit. They need to fight for voting rights for every man and women no matter their race.

[tiredtoo]

91. It wasn't removed, damn didn't anyone report it?

Free college is a good thing. I would prefer living in an educated society. It's not for everyone but those who qualify should be able to go without being in debt for the next 40 years.
I am 81 years old and also vote for my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren. Voting rights are number one on my list also.

[marie999]

203. What good is college if 54% of Americans can't read at the 6th grade level.

[tiredtoo]

222. Like i said

to those qualified. The stat you mentioned is a very sad statement.

[obamanut2012]

143. "Free college is bullshit"

JFC STOP IT.

[Voltaire2]

186. Is bullshit better or worse than ponies?

If the yutes are demanding bullshit, is that worse than demanding ponies?

And would ponyshit be the ultimate bad demand?

[obamanut2012]

251. They are both better than poutrage

I am shocked that one hasn't appeared.

[tiredtoo]

224. Well in that vein

Maybe we should stop ALL free education.

[BlackSkimmer]

176. Do you have a link?

I can’t find it.

[Voltaire2]

188. Doesn't show up for me either.

Must not have been discussed much.

[betsuni]

48. Saw that. Like someone who doesn't cook spending lots of time trolling cooking forums.

Don't know how to cook, insult people who do. Don't know how the American government works, insult people who do.

Tired of insults that DU members are wealthy old conservatives with hidden agendas who hate True Progressives -- saw a stupid one today, that Democrats pointing out that progress is incremental and something is better than nothing and compromise is always involved in legislation is sometimes a disingenuous excuse by "some who are hiding agendas and do not want certain things passed." Has to be projection.

[question everything]

49. Don't let the door hit you, etc.

[Moebym]

52. I'm 36, but a lifelong Democrat

And I agree with you.

I am every bit as progressive as the youngsters you speak of, but I grew up in the South, and I know very well how much of a struggle it can be to make progress when you're surrounded by the forces that would roll back hard-won progress and take us back to a much darker time if given power.

This is why I am a pragmatist above all else.

If young people like myself refuse to vote in '22 because Biden didn't cancel their student debt, Republican rule will give them much, much more to worry about beyond that. This is what too many fail to understand.

[Cha]

55. Amen, she! Thank You!

Last edited Wed Feb 2, 2022, 12:33 AM - Edit history (1)

I saw that .. it was arrogant and self-serving.

[sheshe2]

73. TY!!!

[progressoid]

56. Asking for free stuff? What BULLSHIT. Utter Bullshit.

I'm an oldish peep with millennial children. I watch them (and their friends) work their asses off. And it's a good thing they do. It keeps your pensions and Social Security solvent.

One might think twice about disparaging the very people who will one day be dispensing our medications and wiping our asses.

[sheshe2]

65. Welp.

I'm an oldish peep with millennial children. I watch them (and their friends) work their asses off. And it's a good thing they do. It keeps your pensions and Social Security solvent.

My pensions. I paid into SS at 14 years old. I worked my ass off to KEEP YOUR PENSIONS and SS solvent.

You might think twice about disparaging the very people who will one day be dispensing our medications and wiping our asses.

I just spent 4 fucking years with mom care 24/7. Don't disparage the elders that are actually doing that. I was with mom until the day she died 24/7 and yes I showered her, cooked for her and medicated her... baby monitor at night and in the end wiped her ass. She died on 01/20 in my arms.

[progressoid]

77. Indeed.

I too have paid into SS since I was 14. Most of that money paid into SS has gone to our elders. Like it or not, SS and pensions rely on the youth of today. Unfortunately for me, I will be working far past my retirement to pay off enexpected bills so I don't plan to see a lot of SS money.

Sorry about your Mother. She's lucky to have a loved one to take care of her.

My crude analogy was meant to point out that we are going to rely on those young people more and more to keep society running smoothly for us (nursing being just one of many aspects). My work took me to a number of memory care facilities before the pandemic. I was impressed by the level of care given by the young workers there. Most working part-time for wages that likely couldn't keep up with their student loans. Far from lazy.

The youth of today are not the problem. They are the solution.

You, who are on the road
Must have a code
That you can live by
And so become yourself
Because the past is just a goodbye
Teach your children well
Their father's hell
Did slowly go by
And feed them on your dreams
The one they pick's the one you'll know by
Don't you ever ask them, "Why?"
If they told you, you would cry
So, just look at them and sigh
And know they love you

[iemanja]

81. I'm so sorry for your loss, Sheshe2

Your mom was lucky to have you.

[Celerity]

71. +1

It never fails that some part of DU reverts back to a good old fashioned youth-bash (at times in an indirect, oblique manner), often couched in left-punching terms (so a 2-fer). The oldest Millennials turn 44 years of age before the next POTUS is sworn in, and the youngest will have been able to vote (minus a handful born the last 7 or so weeks of 1996) for 6 elections come 2024, so the entre 'oh those damn kids' thing is really becoming tenuous.

Fruitful places to find this posturing can often be found on some thread about the outrageous cost of uni and/or the $10K (let alone the $50K amount that Schumer and Warren have been pushing for ages) student loan debt forgiveness that Biden campaigned on.

For 2024:

The combined number of Millennials and Gen Z generations are expected to equal the older ones as a share of actual voters on Election Day.

And by 2028, Millennials and Gen Z will dwarf the older generations as a share of both eligible and actual voters. That will be true not only nationally, but in all the crucial battleground states, according to previously unreleased projections provided to me by States of Change.

IF the youth-bash framing becomes dominant outside of here, then I think those people doing that should well understand why we may well will continue to see bad omen trends like this:

[Sympthsical]

83. One of my favorite education stories ever

It was in a student loans thread, and the person declared they had worked through school without debt and Millennials and Zoomers should, too.

As it went along, "worked through school" turned out to be a part time job in the 1960s.

I fucking howled when I realized that's the entire basis for the stance.

My partner's a PharmD in his 40s, and he's still paying off his loans. I just paid mine off maybe five years ago. I've seen friends and family buckle under the things.

"Free stuff!" It seems some older quarters in our party do not realize that they got lots of "free stuff" that younger generations ended up having to pay for.

They whipped out the credit card, and we got the bill.

[obamanut2012]

144. Please do not forget us GenXers

We are always forgotten. We bore the brunt of this shitty take from our Boomer parents and older grandparents. I couldn't even afford a car until I was in my mid 30s. I didn't ahve real medical and dental until I was 32, and 20 years later, my teeth are rotting in my head because of that.

It was taken from us, and Millennials, and now the Zoomers. We were beaten down by it, and it's too late for us, but oh! I hope then Zoomers and younger Millennials keep raising hell and demanding their ponies (and, wtf people here saying wnating a living wage, benefits, free college, and other things most countries have is wanting a pony).

[Sympthsical]

153. You're right, it all blurs together for me

I always kind of forget Xers are in their 40s and 50s now.

But this all started really revving up with Reagan and the 80s. Xers got that first taste of what the next forty years would be for many young people.

I looked up a few things after this thread and saw that the purchasing power of the minimum wage peaked in 1968. I wonder if that's coloring a lot of the perception in older Democrats. "We could afford things. You cannot. Must mean you're not working hard enough."

Like someone pushed the lede straight down to Australia.

[obamanut2012]

252. AIDs is literally what made me realize that

When a friend in college died from GRID ie AIDs, and all over young men (mainly) were dying, and Reagan literally did nothing.

[Caliman73]

159. Yep.

I came out of school with 11,000 in debt in the mid 90's. I also had to work about 30 to 37 hours a week to afford a place to live. Then I decided to go to graduate school to "better" myself (actually I needed the degrees for any hope of advancement in my field). Now my debt is 10 times what it was.

The funny thing is that the younger generations are living in the world created by the older generations. For the first time in a long time in the US the lives of the younger generations have fewer prospects than the older generations, but yes, we are spoiled and weak and ask for "free stuff". Hmmm, I wonder where those attitudes came from? I guess we all just developed them on our own without any kind of input from say, our primary care givers.

[leftstreet]

92. +1

"purity and free stuff"'

jfc it's no mystery why this forum has such little activity

[obamanut2012]

145. boom

this

[Kaleva]

106. Your kids and their friends don't need encouragement to vote

They know how important it is to learn the issues and to vote in every election.

[Voltaire2]

115. Yup. What toxic bs.

The op might as well have been titled “all you kids get off my lawn”.

[vercetti2021]

59. I don't want free stuff

I just want the same opportunities baby boomers once had in the 60s and 70s. I'd love to have my own home, a great paying job with healthcare and benefits. College education that doesn't put me into massive never ending debt. And a world that isn't being killed by climate change. I'm 31 and still have many years on this earth. I just want an equal opportunity. I never asked for free stuff.

[stopdiggin]

63. +1, +2 and 3. (it was extremely misinformed) -(nt)-

[Sympthsical]

84. + a billion

And the applause for this sneering at the youngins (people now in their 30s and 40s, lol) is just a towering lack of self-awareness.

Maybe they're just pissed voters under 44 overwhelmingly picked Bernie (do they think there might have been a reason for that one?)

This is classic:

[Ms. Toad]

97. My daughter is your age

She has a job at Amazon that pays more than the average for her skills - but it's tough work and mandatory overtime. ​

Given that she does not have a college education (and I did), her pay is better than mine was at her age (adjusted for inflation). Her health care benefits are significantly better at EarthFare, Starbucks, and now Amazon than mine have been anywhere (working in both public and private industry with 3 degrees).

She just made an offer on her first home.

As for college education - get a job at a college. Most of those offer free tuition. If that doesn't work, take a job in the public sector post-graduation - many of those jobs offer loan forgiveness.

(I agree that tuition is ridiculous - BUT - watching my daughter whose chronic illness has prevented her from completing college march through 3 jobs in about 10 years, without a period of unemployment, with insurance which has covered $200,000+/year in medical expenses at a cost to her of no more than $3,500/year, each of which also matched a fair amount of 401(K) contributions, and one of which paid education benefits - there are opportunities out there.)

[inthewind21]

165. Seriously

Get a job at a college? So you think there's enough jobs on campus for ALL students? Do tell, where are all these opportunities? Yes, they are our there. But they are far a few. She made more than you? Do tell, what were housing costs for you? Car payments? Healthcare with no insurance? and and and. So there goes that pep talk down the toilet.

[Ms. Toad]

174. You apparenty missed that I said "adjusted for inflation."

I'm comparing apples to apples. Her job today pays what my job (with a college degree) adjusted for inflation paid when I was her age. I had no car payments because I drove a 10-year old car which I bought used and had paid off several years earlier. Housing costs were equivalent, adjusted for inflation. Even without adjusting for inflation, my insurance costs were higher than hers - and benefits lower.

Take a job at Starbucks. 25 hours a week is considered full time and gets you college tuition, health insurance for a pittance (the $3500 is premiums + deductible + her share of costs until she hits her out-of-pocket maximum for the year. It takes her all of 1 month to get there, because her costs are so enormous. Absent a chronic, expensive disease your costs will be much lower), stock, and matching contributions to 401K.

Take a job at Amazon - health insurance starts on day 1, and is about the same price as at Starbucks. Depending on your pickiness about shifts - you can earn $35-$40/hour for at least part of the week.

Not glamorous - but they pay the bills, provide health insurance, access to a 401(k) and - in some instances - provide for college.

Go to community college for the first two years (as my spouse did to save money). Build an online degree through EdX (now 2U). I've taken courses there - and some were the equivalent of courses I paid big bucks for at a fancy private college.

I get that you're angry and you think you have lost opportunitie that your parents have - but the opportunties just come in different forms now.

And I don't think you're looking at the bigger picture of lifestyle choices which characterize different generations. Most middle class in my generation chose not to live as lavishly as my daughter's generation are choosingto live. My cell phone bill (currently) is $15/month. I haven't watched TV in years (aside from a brief respite with Locast), because paying for cable isn't an expense I can justify - and the analog to digital conversion wiped out my ability to watch over-the-air TV. I'm driving a 2004 car. The newest car in our household is a 2008 car. Our home is fully paid off - even with an unexpected 60% income cut in our early years, and even with rolling the tuition for my third degree in, because we bought well below our means. A generation earlier, my parents borrowed money to buy farmland - but not much else. They (and I) still pay off credit cards in full every month. My grandparents (close to the depression) did not buy anything on credit.

While I'm proud of my daughter's choices to work where there are jobs, to work shifts which pay more money, and to always take into account her need for health insurance when she shifts jobs, her spending habits are typical of her generation. She got into credit card debt (and in the last 2 years has paid off 60% of that debt, without accumulating more.) She has a decent amount of retirement $$ saved up for her age - only because we hammered in the concept of free money - so she has always contributed as much to a 401(k) plan as her employer would match. But I worry about in later life - not because opportunities aren't here for her now - but because, despite my best efforts, she has picked up the consumption driven habits of her peers - buying costly brands largely for the name, spending far more on her phone than is necessary just so she always has the internet at her fingertips, and is not saving intentionally saving beyond her contributions to the 401(K).

I'm sure it is not universally true but - on average - people in her generation choose to have far more expensive things whereas people in my generation (and my parents or grandparents) chose the delayed gratification of ensuring that retirement came before stuff we didn't need.

That's not to say we don't need to increase pay, lower college costs, and provide better access to health issues (and tend to the environment). It is to say that most generations believe their parents had it better - when often it is just that they had it different, but also made different choices about what to prioritize.

[Kaleva]

107. Many of us boomers got our opportunity by serving in the military.

College paid for by the GI Bill. Health care provided by the VA. Buying a home with a VA backed loan. The enlistment bonus to join the Army is up to 50k now.

I'm 63 and your opportunities are the same as what I had. It's up to you to decide if you want to take advantage of them.

Had I not joined the military, I must likely would have spent my life working minimum wage jobs. I did not have the grades or the money to go to college.

Also, I spend a great deal of time now preparing for climate change. Not so much for my sake but for the sake of my adult step-children and grandchildren.

[vercetti2021]

110. I'm not joining the military

That's a huge no.

[Kaleva]

111. Then don't complain about not having the same opportunities.

If you are not willing to sacrifice to have good health care, own a home or have no college debt.

[vercetti2021]

112. What in the hell does that even have to do with anything?

I'm not risking my life just to have something that even some basic military veterans can't get now otherwise we wouldn't have thousands of homeless vets living on the damn street. sacrificing my life for the military industrial complex? Fuck that

[Kaleva]

192. Well then, accept the choices you made and don't complain about it.

If you want to be without a home, buried by college debt and have no future, then go for it. It's your decision.

[vercetti2021]

198. Wow just fucking wow

Done here with this shit

[Kaleva]

214. Your life doesn't have to be as bad as you seem to saying it is.

You also seem to place a great deal of emphasis on material things. Like you can't have happiness without stuff.

Focus on family and friends and be willing to make sacrifices now in exchange for long term benefits. You'll be happier for it.

[obamanut2012]

254. JFC

[Sympthsical]

164. Man, this is out of touch

I don't even know how to respond to it. The absolute refusal to even acknowledge that college is much, much, much more expensive now than it was in the 60s.

Completely blows my mind.

[Farmer-Rick]

131. The opportunities in the military are not the same as when you retired.

Look it up.

It takes 30 years now to get a full retirement. After 20, they only get about 50 percent pay while they use to get 75 percent.

The GI bill now is an account you have to put money into, with a strict time limit for use.

Family members no longer get free medical care.

If you die while retired, your spouse gets Nothing. It use to be your spouse got 50 percent of your retirement.... though you may have had to pay into it.

In retirement your family doesn't get free medical.

A lot of the military benefits you got are not there for today's generation. They went away when they started hiring mercenaries to fight our wars. You know they made it into a business. Just another low paying scam.

[Kaleva]

190. Where did I say I retired from the military?

You would have saved yourself some work if you had taken the time to actually read my post.

I didn't get the old GI Bill benefits. There was a time limit to use it and I hadn't. I also didn't qualify for the new GI Bill. But I had saved some money before getting out, along with buying and paying off a home, and I used that to help pay for college. I got a loan for the remainder of the cost.

[Farmer-Rick]

215. It is a distinction without a difference

The opportunities in the military are not the same, if you took retirement or not.

I am about your age. The opportunity was there for me and you.

It isn't there for today's generation.

[Kaleva]

226. As I said in another post, before one couldn't get VA care w/o serving at least 20

Now you can.

"Eligibility for VA health care

If you enlisted after September 7, 1980, or entered active duty after October 16, 1981, you must have served 24 continuous months or the full period for which you were called to active duty, unless any of the descriptions below are true for you."

https://www.va.gov/health-care/eligibility/

As I enlisted prior to Sept. 7, 1980, I wasn't eligible for VA health care for over 20 years after I was discharged.

"This minimum duty requirement may not apply if any of these are true:

You were discharged for a disability that was caused—or made worse—by your active-duty service, or
You were discharged for a hardship or “early out,” or
You served prior to September 7, 1980"

https://www.va.gov/health-care/eligibility/

I was able to get VA care after I was approved for disability by the SSA about 10 years ago. My income had plummeted and I got in under priority group 5 based on low income (SSDI doesn't pay much). Once accepted, I was reviewed by the VA and it was determined the root cause of my disability was a surgery I had while serving. This got me moved to priority group 3 and a small monthly pension from the VA.

[Kaleva]

211. Also, back in the day, one had to put in 20 to get VA benefits

That's not the case anymore.

[obamanut2012]

147. "your opportunities are the same as what I had"

lolololololol

No, they aren't.

[obamanut2012]

146. +1 This GenXer is behind you!

I want the same things! We never got 'em either, and our parents ahve never understood that (until mine very recently).

[obamanut2012]

253. Boom!

Great reply.

[electricbro45]

60. I ain't old and I ain't young.....

That was from a song by a group most of you have never heard of, from Sweden called The Night Flight Orchestra. However, it describes me.

I was born dead middle in Gen X territory (45M). I have voted only Left since 1996; I was eligible to vote in 1994, but I stupidly didn't register. I must admit that many of my economics professors leaned conservative and I got some indoctrination in that thought when I was in my early 20's. However, seeing 9-11 and then the Patriot Act and W's stupid ass wars and of course The Great Recession, this all pushed me further left. I had such high hopes after 2006 and 2008, but then 2010 happened and 2014 and 2016 and the nonsense of 2020 and COVID.

Like many of you, I am so fucking tired out. That is why I keep saying it is okay to agree to disagree but I don't think we as liberals should tear down each other over stupid shit. I got ripped a new asshole by the PC police on DKOS, for no good reason. That is why we have mods, and I think some don't get that. I sometimes say inflammatory things to make people think, not trolling. Either way, someone that thinks DU Sucks....whatever, fuck em.

[krkaufman]

66. "whatever"

A simple, more productive response than a thread increasing division.

[Kid Berwyn]

62. What BKliban said.

[JudyM]

89. One of my favorite-ever cartoons.

Thanks for posting it. So many applications, so true.

[Kid Berwyn]

130. You are most welcome!

B. Kliban was great. Thankfully we still have can enjoy work by M.K. Brown, his widow or ex-wife (not sure which):



http://mkbrown.benway.com/cartoons.html



https://www.comicsreporter.com/index.php/cr_sunday_interview_mk_brown/

[pazzyanne]

67. K&R

Me, the elders never demanded free stuff. We worked. We worked hard.

[obamanut2012]

148. "Me, the elders never demanded free stuff. We worked. We worked hard. "

Wow. Just really insulting you reposted that.

[pazzyanne]

240. Personally, I don't believe it can be said enough!

[obamanut2012]

255. Seriously? You are proud of this elitist take?

[pazzyanne]

258. I'm proud 0f the 50 years of hard work I put into working for social programs!

In that 50 years I sat on steering committees, campaigned for democratic candidates, walked picket lines, served on local boards, and anything was asked of me to further civil rights, women's rights, etc. in the area of social programs. Thank you for showing your appreciation and support for those working on the front lines.

[betsuni]

261. +1

[OneBro]

68. Define "free"

Do they want “free stuff” moocher-style, or do they want “free stuff” paid for with their taxes much like other developed countries with higher quality “free” healthcare and education?

I’m sure we’ve all met moochers in every age group, but given the declining state of things, it’s difficult to fault youngsters for their disillusionment.

[mvd]

70. DU is a wonderful place

Yes we don’t always agree on strategy/philosophy, but there are many caring people here. I found that out myself.

Work is an admirable thing, and certainly can help get more out of life. I don’t think people should be defined by working. People don’t work for various reasons. I don’t think anyone should have to be in poverty and have to choose between medications and food.

Sometimes people get too all or nothing. Young people shouldn’t refuse to vote over student debt relief. But their cause is still a good one.

[JoeOtterbein]

72. This old boomer asks you,...

...uh?

We need every d... vote we can get. From everyone we can get to vote.

Drag ten voters to every election with you. Even if two or three vote for the other candidate, we win!

PLEASE!!!!

-Joe

[alfredo]

75. I wanted that free "I Voted" sticker. No other reason needed

[argyl]

76. Any young, preferably intelligent, DEMOCRAT is welcome here.

There are a number of brilliant people who post here. I'd hate to see them go because some twenty something thought their ideas were stale. But of course that won't be happening.
Maybe they prefer the rolling and tumbling style of sites where you can insult anyone at the drop of a hat and can say anything you want without providing any proof.

Sorry. This site is too well established and respected for changes such as those.

I'm 70 y.o. and maybe it's time I moved on. Like hell I will, this place is like home to me.

[Sympthsical]

78. "They seem to want purity and free stuff."

If you're going to go highlight your own problematic attitudes like that, far be it from any of us relatively younger types to stop you.

"I've been shitting on them all day, and they still don't care for me!"

I mean . . .

And do realize these "younger" people demanding purity and "free stuff" are in their 40s now.

I don't know how much longer I can go on being considered a younger voter. My hair color's starting to turn.

[Diablo del sol]

85. Can we define "Free Stuff"

Look, I turn 60 in a couple of months. I got jack fucking shit of "free stuff." So take that you whiney ass youngsters!

Oh wait, I did get a college education, now it required me to work all though school. Lose 25 lbs in four years and take out student loans. Total student loan debt of $7,500, first salary of $23,600. Total cost of college was roughly 10k.

So if someone is complaining about affordable college, they have a right. They aren't walking out with debt of x and getting jobs that are closer to 4k.

Just my perspective, but we really need to listen to the complaints and not label them in what are basically RW talking points.

[Texasgal]

88. 2004 member here

Yes, OLD ass voter.

I do not recall seeing anything like this. I don't live here but log on at least once a day. Seems like a rare issue and not worthy of such division.

Hell, there is more sexism on this board than people whining about DU.

Weird thread.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

94. I have active in party politics for a long time

[Rhiannon12866]

95. Well, a lot of us were a whole lot younger when we signed up. I know I was, 19 years ago this month

And I've also learned a whole lot since then, mostly thanks to DU and the people here who know more than me...

[betsuni]

96. For those wondering about "free stuff," that means impossible populist promises.

Politician A presents a plan for student debt relief with details and numbers. After that, populist politician B comes out with a slogan: Cancel All Student Debt. When asked about details and numbers, says, Well, I don't have the numbers in my pocket. There are no details, no real plan.

Politician A supports Medicare for All, but the numbers don't work, changes their mind and presents a plan with details and numbers. Vermont state tried it, Green Mountain Care. Failed. I think it was tried elsewhere. Populist B and supporters use Medicare for All as a purity test without any plan for how it will work, accuse those who don't support it as not progressives, in the pocket of Big Pharma, do not think health care is a human right, etc. Medicare for All has been around forever as a plan, populist B claims it's a radical new idea that Democrats hate.

Using slogans as purity tests to identify enemies. Saying that the only reason these supposedly simple solutions can't become reality is that Congress is corrupt, bribed. Young people fall for this if they are new to how government works, don't know the history of the Democratic Party, end up booing more loudly and angrily at the words "Democratic establishment" than at the words "Republican establishment." They become cynical and convinced Democrats turn their backs on the working/middle classes because they're beholden to a "donor class" that corrupts them with campaign contributions. Why should they vote if both sides are same. Opportunity to educate and inspire young people to get involved in government and their own future squandered. For what.

[Cha]

98. TY.. Excellent Comprehensive

post on what's been happening with "..the Free stuff..".

It needs to be paid for one way or another if youre a Dem.

Of Course Fascists are out to Tear our Country Apart.

[betsuni]

105. Pandering. Populist pandering to the gullible for money and votes.

[Cha]

173. Yeah & Thank Goodness Joe Biden

Won.. he wants to Get It Paid For!

Like Jen Psaki says when the insipid reporters ask stupid questions about PJB's Infrastructure Bill.. "It's Paid For"

[Voltaire2]

114. Like free public university education?

That free stuff?

For example the California university system was essentially free for all residents. Other states also had excellent very low cost university systems. All of that is gone. Trying to claw that back is not asking for ponies.

This thread is toxic.

[Sympthsical]

125. UC system is now $14,700 a year in tuition alone

That's for residents. $44k for out of state.

Meanwhile, people who went through a free or dirt cheap UC system: "Why do all these kids want free stuff?"

How to say "I got mine" without saying it.

[Celerity]

127. +1

[Voltaire2]

134. Yeah I went through SUNY on a Pell

and a regents and a small bump from the U. All I had to cover was my living expenses.

I’m really tired of rw framing.

[betsuni]

178. States can do that.

Point is using slogans as purity tests against Democrats.

Pretending FDR was a democratic socialist, that the majority of Americans agree with populist ideas so they're democratic socialists too, they just don't know it yet. There will be a left and right alliance and the working class revolution will begin, but the corrupt corporate Democrats will stop at nothing to prevent it. That the Tea Party was grassroots and look how they took over the Republican Party -- the Democratic Party must be taken over the same way. The only ones who will fight for the working class are the populist saviors. Send three grassroots dollars now to help us take on the establishment.

This is all very exciting, and it feels good to be in the club, have lots of buzzwords to call Democrats names, blame evil establishment enemies for everything. But it's a fantasy that only helps Republicans.

[Voltaire2]

179. I guess 'the point' was not clearly stated.

As ‘the point’ has now been rewritten many times in the thread.

I’ll stick with the original post, which was toxic divisive nonsense using rw framing to attack younger Democrats, all apparently in response to some other post that attacked older Democrats.

So now we have two toxic posts. Has that made DU a better experience?

[Nixie]

161. Thank you. That's what this is about and I'm sure all know it. It's the meme that losing is really

winning if you repeat slogans and we know what it's really about.

[sheshe2]

181. Thank you!

[questionseverything]

230. There is nothing impossible about healthcare for all

We are actually the last civilized nation that doesn’t have it

We already have it for the elderly, the poor, the disabled and the military so actually adding working people to be included wouldn’t be that difficult if the insurance companies didn’t have so much to lose

[betsuni]

232. Votes. Until Democrats have large majorities in Congress, it's impossible.

[questionseverything]

233. We don't have the votes because the politicians we have are not progressive enough

Not because the numbers don’t work, we actually spend more money for worse outcomes

[betsuni]

236. 50-50 senate now, the ACA only had a window of four months and ten days to pass ACA

when they had 60 votes. Two senators now, a few who wouldn't vote for a public option then. A few not progressive enough. The Democratic Party is progressive.

[questionseverything]

238. You are the one equating healthcare for all with "free ponies "

So is the Democratic Party progressive enough to support healthcare for all or is that goal a


“Pony”

[betsuni]

239. Where have I equated healthcare for all with "free ponies"?

Last edited Thu Feb 3, 2022, 12:24 AM - Edit history (1)

Not enough votes is not enough votes. The Democratic Party's goal is universal health care, health care as a human right. It's in all the party platforms. Clinton administration tried and failed, Obama administration got the ACA with a public option passed through the House but not Senate because of a few senators (obviously no Republican votes). Just need to get large majorities and a good, workable bill that enough will vote for. Not slogans.

[questionseverything]

234. Btw states will never be able to give their citizens healthcare for all

Because they can’t run in the red , which the United States can ( especially as long as the world accepts the money we print)

[betsuni]

243. They can come up with their own plans, it's not all or nothing.

ACA-type plan worked in Massachusetts, gave legislators confidence voting for a national ACA. Problem is Medicare for All used as a slogan purity test in an all-or-nothing way, as if supporting ACA or any plan not abolishing private insurance is equivalent to being beholden to the insurance industry, not caring if people die, therefore immoral, evil, corrupt. Medicare for All was claimed to be a new and radical idea that one elected official came up with and Democrats hated, even though Medicaid for All has been around forever. No mention of this, one person taking credit. Used to accuse Democrats of not being progressive for years, not much anymore. Our Revolution decided it was going to face reality and be more pragmatic. Good for them.

Same with the $15 minimum wage purity test. Fifteen was a magic number. Anyone who thought there weren't enough votes to pass the magic number so maybe try $12.50 or something were immoral, evil, corrupt. The Fight for Fifteen movement started in 2012 and went national. Cities and states passed $15 wages. Incrementally, as progress happens. Yet this was claimed to be a new and radical idea that one elected official was responsible for. "Fifteen bucks" we heard over and over, taking credit for the grassroots movement that was never once credited.

[malaise]

104. I love DU

And I’m old. That said succession planning is a good thing

[Voltaire2]

113. Boomer and I got a basically free college education.

Free stuff rants sound real right wing to me.

[UnderThisLaw]

117. Was it

a post that literally said that DU sucks or was it an “I’m a Democrat but I constantly have to accuse the DU community of hypocrisy” post? For example, today I learned DU is not tough enough on Whoopi Goldberg but too tough on the Georgetown prof who criticized Biden’s commitment to naming an African American woman to SCOTUS

[634-5789]

118. AMEN!

[marie999]

119. What free stuff? People I know, none on DU, say I was lucky to get a lot of free stuff.

Yes, I got free stuff, free college on the GI Bill. Free medical for life, free handicap parking, lower property taxes, commissary, and travel privileges thanks to a 100% service-connected disability but not caused by being in the military. I have been "retired" for the last 28 years.

[Act_of_Reparation]

121. If there are people who think DU sucks...

...this OP is a fairly representative example of why that would be.

[Voltaire2]

139. Hey wait, you think this sucks?

I’ll show you what sucks is.

Unbelievable.

[obamanut2012]

149. Yup, agree

[inthewind21]

193. I think

I get what you are saying. Some may think DU sucks BECAUSE of BS op's like this one. Am I correct?

[Act_of_Reparation]

194. Yes.

If you were a 20-30-something liberal, would this OP make you feel welcome here?

[obamanut2012]

256. I'm an older GenXer

And it makes ME feel unwelcome here.

[Nixie]

200. "some" may think DU ..." do you have any examples of "some"?

That might make a difference if you clarify.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

126. Not to rain on this shit on the young voters parade, but you do know they helped get Biden elected?

Generation Z, who are currently between the ages of 8 and 23, played a significant role in both of these records. NBC exit polls suggest that 65% of those between the ages of 18 and 24 voted for Biden — 11% more than any other age group.

And in states like Georgia and Pennsylvania, young voters proved to be key to Biden’s success.

“I’ve been doing demographic analysis about the changing American electorate for two decades,” says Simon Rosenberg, president of NDN (previously known as the New Democrat Network) and the New Policy Institute. “53% to 55% of registered 18 to 29-year-olds appear to have voted. That may be the highest ever recorded in the modern era of politics.”

“Both Generation Z and millennials are voting generations,” says Brent Cohen, executive director of Generation Progress. “The preliminary data says, in fact, this was the election with the highest turnout rate of young people that we’ve ever seen.”

Full article

But, hey, keep telling them how much they suck and just want "free stuff" and all the other RW talking points in this thread, and I'm sure they'll continue to show up and vote Dem. Because that's how you influence people that are already on your side.

[Bettie]

129. Shhh...I don't think we're supposed to say that!

We're just supposed to go and continue to shit all over them, all day every day!

My two voting age GenZ kids are very liberal and vote, because they know their futures depend on it, but they are also frustrated at the lack of action on things like climate change, which they and their friends know is a looming disaster.

The kids really are OK.

[Voltaire2]

137. Yup.

[progressoid]

154. What kind of malarkey is that! Those young whippersnappers voted for Biden you say?

Gasp.

[NeoGreen]

182. Now, now, young whippersnapper, let's not allow reality to interfere with...

... a fine example of a boomer rant laced with not so subtle GOP talking points.

That would be impertinent.

[Mariana]

242. Good thing, too, because the majority of voters over 50 voted for Trump.

In 2016 and in 2020.

[obamanut2012]

245. I know

My parents are a rarity: affluent white Boomers retired to Florida who get more liberal every year. My Dad never voted for a Dem until HRC, and is now a "soft" Socialist. My mom always has voted Dem.

[obamanut2012]

132. "Me, the elders never demanded free stuff. We worked. We worked hard. "

WTAF

*checks url* Yeah, it's DU.

wtaf

[Voltaire2]

140. Get off my lawn syndrome.

[obamanut2012]

151. I am gobsmacked

I'm an old GenXer, and never got the same "free stuff" my parents and grandparents did. Thsi OP is just....

[BlackSkimmer]

152. i don't even get this OP.

I've never seen anyone post that about DU. People used to say, "this kind of thing makes DU suck," but I've never seen a blanket statement like that.

Guess I missed it.

[obamanut2012]

155. Apparently it was a troll post

within the past two days. So, the troll post is making certain Boomer-aged DUers say some pretty... interesting stuff about Millennials and Zoomers (since they always forget us Xers).

[BlackSkimmer]

156. Certainly seeing some interesting comments, you got that right.

But i'm unable to find the original offending post.

[obamanut2012]

170. Me either

[inthewind21]

195. Me either

Which begs the question, did it ever really exist. I'm going with no.

[Autumn]

171. Some trolls sign up over and over,they get banned quickly. DU doesn't suck but some OPs sure do.

[BlackSkimmer]

185. Geez, I see troll posts all the time, as we all do.

But I missed this specific one.

Still, I don’t get the attack on a whole segment of DU because of some random troll.

Maybe more to this.

[Autumn]

189. It's a reason to start a "discussion" about young voters with the intended results.

Pots don't stir themselves.

[BlackSkimmer]

191. Ah.

I believe you may have something there.

[obamanut2012]

246. ah

gotcha

[BradAllison]

169. "Worked hard"

Another meme. Paul Ryan loves it. Mr Democrat, Paul Ryan. Bussing tables at McDonalds.

[JustAnotherGen]

157. Been here since 2007

Reading since 2003/2004. Not going anywhere Sheshe. You don't need to go anywhere either.

If this GenX apathetic cynical asshole can learn from you and your 'generation' of DU'ers - then the Y's and Z's can learn from me - and you.


I've voted in every single Primary and General election - school board up to President since I turned 18. I've learned to not let the perfect be the enemy of change.

Example- I'm all for breaking down build back better to get a few more wins on the board for House and Senate members before November. If we win and expand - everything left out of BBB can come together AS a BBB and we can get it done.

[Nixie]

162. I saw that thread, too, she.

smh

[SYFROYH]

163. Yes, you worked hard, but you were compensated better.

Even at the minimum wage level, as boomers came of age they were compensated much better.

[Nixie]

166. Also, that thread had ZERO recs the last time I looked.

Yours has 93.

[BradAllison]

167. "Free stuff"

That's a righty meme.

Sorry. Watch your language, seriously.

[kcr]

172. Free stuff?

Come on... Are you trying to prove that poster's point?

[peggysue2]

180. Sorry to hear about your Mom, sheshe

Was this recently? If so, I missed it.

Condolences.

[sheshe2]

210. Thanks, peggysue.

She died 2 weeks ago. The funeral was Monday.

Hugs

[Gidney N Cloyd]

183. I hate to see divisive posts like that get traction.

I think we used to have a saying on DU-- 'Let it die.' We'll always have some folks trying to divide or disrupt us but we don't have to help them do it.

[Meowmee]

184. I have always voted dem

Last edited Wed Feb 2, 2022, 06:05 PM - Edit history (2)

Even when I did not like the candidates because I know what the alternative will bring. I am not sure what people think is going to happen if they vote for fascists- somehow they are delusional and think it is going to bring a better result for what they want. The fact is although some younger people care and vote statistically they vote in far lesser numbers than any other group. Not voting is a problem in many younger dem voter age groups though, not just the youngest category. Not voting and voting for dem alternatives= voting r or fascist.

The only issues that matter currently or to phrase it differently which are URGENT are 1- VOTE AGAINST FASCISM 2- The pandemic

[Act_of_Reparation]

196. Young people vote in lesser numbers.

Maybe somebody should look into why that is, instead of just assuming young people only care about "free stuff".

[Meowmee]

197. It has been the case

For many years I believe and I think people have done studies on why- try google.

As you may have noticed in my post I am addressing what is truly urgent currently, if fascism takes over, which could happen, things are going to get really bad, and that is an understatement . Most of the dem platform can’t be passed as is currently due to not having a true majority and other issues. If the worst happens whatever gains have been made will be eliminated and much worse will happen. People need to wake up to this.

[Act_of_Reparation]

244. I don't need to "try Google"

...to know the answer to the question isn't "young people just want free stuff".

[Meowmee]

257. Great you answered your own question then

No need to converse anymore

[Act_of_Reparation]

262. No, I didn't.

Knowing what the answer is not isn't the same as knowing what the answer is.

But given the general quality of the discussion you're providing, I'm inclined to agree that there's little point continuing here.

[Meowmee]

263. I feel the same way

Because you are not having a discussion and chose to attack my post ignoring what I said. Bye.

[ymetca]

199. "All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace"

Having dropped out of college and spent my whole life in the "School of Hard Knocks", it has taken a lot of personal effort on my part to remind myself that the glorification of work for work's sake is a disease. It's what's killing the planet. It's what produces a billion people not "needed" for anything. The so-called "labor pool" is nothing but a cesspool of misery, violence and war. By design.

We should have listened a little better to R. Buckminster Fuller.

We should be taking seriously The Abolition of Work.

Kids don't want to work anymore? Sounds like a plan!

Work? Work is for saps!

Free stuff? Hell yeah!

[MarineCombatEngineer]

201. I have a saying,

I left for Vietnam as a republican and came home from Vietnam as a Democrat and have faithfully voted for Dems since.

[George II]

202. Excellent! Good job.

[sheshe2]

209. Good to see you, MCE.

Glad to know you are safe. You had a long haul and you must have hit all the bad weather. Canada to NJ if I remember correctly.

Stay safe

[MarineCombatEngineer]

217. Thanks sheshe2,

it was actually California to NJ and yes, I did hit a lot of snow, had to chain up several times, what a pain that is on an 18 wheeler.

Right now I'm in Tucumcari, NM getting my truck fixed, the front engine oil seal went bad and it was leaking engine oil all over the place, luckily, this is a warranty job, so no charge other than the hotel I have to pay for.

[sheshe2]

220. You had to chain up an 18 wheeler.

You are one amazing man, I have no clue how you do what you do.

Hugs to you.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

223. Hugs to you and yours also.

It's a pain, but it has to be done and after doing it several times, it becomes routine, you just have to know how to do it in the most simple way.

I don't have to chain up all 18 wheels, just the drive axles on the truck and chains on 2 tires on opposite sides of the trailer.

[George II]

204. Sounds rather ageist to me. What happened to the Democratic Party (and DU) being a "big tent"?

The fact is us "old people" vote more reliably and at a higher percentage than any other age group.

Since 1972 (yeah, I'm THAT old!) I've voted for the Democratic candidate in every election.

But I have a confession - about 6-7 years ago I voted for a republican in a local election. Yep, I did. But he's a friend of mine and months earlier he did a $600 walkway job for me for free. No, he wasn't "buying" my vote (this was before he became a candidate), he's just a great guy.

[Kali]

206. free stuff and ponies?

wow. I know and am sorry you have recently lost your mother. you are clearly in pain. but lashing out at younger voters over their legitimate concerns is at least as divisive as whatever post you are complaining about.

the pull of idealistic "purists" is what keeps the comfortable from sitting in status quo mode. we need them. and they will learn patience and perseverance from us.

"I got mine" is such a right wing attitude. I think you are better than this.

[BlackSkimmer]

207. I'm still wondering why there's no link to this troll post that the OP says was not deleted.

I’ve searched and can’t find it.

[betsuni]

241. Try "DU sucks lately. Too many Karens" on DU site search.

"This place could use some new blood. It's ossified and anodyne." "No one should act surprised that this website doesn't attract many younger people." OP "Is DU a friendly place for leftists and communists?"

[sheshe2]

208. Not what I was saying at all.

Thank you for your kind words about my mother and then turn around and call me a "right winger " then state that I said "I got mine".

[betsuni]

228. I see accusations of DUers being right-wingers using right-wing talking points and sources

as if most Democrats are wealthy old conservatives "in a position of privilege" "I got mine" and so on, but I've seen so many personally directed at you, sheshe, and vicious ones. What the hell is that about? I admire your strength. Thank you for still being here.

[sheshe2]

229. I am so far from wealthy it is laughable.

I lost my job because I was old and hard of hearing. I tried for more than a year to find a new one. Requirements for a shitty retail job? I needed to be able to go up and down a ladder carrying 25+ pounds. I was 64 at the time. I could not do that.

I was forced into an early retirement and then into 24/7 care for mom. I couldn't even get a part time job as she was my full time job without a salary.

All I have ever wanted to do was leave kids, my nieces, nephews and grands included a better world.

Thank you. Love you.

[betsuni]

231. No matter how many times you explain your situation, it never sinks in. Maybe they do it on purpose.

Constant negativity and petty insults. Sorry you have to deal with that. I'd never have the courage to post a General Discussion OP. There'd be no replies or a few telling me I'm an idiot, but look at your long active thread! Great!

Love you too.

[sheshe2]

235. You are a true friend, betsuni.

I am a better person for knowing you.

I so wish some of us could get together and talk. Sadly we are to spread out to make it happen.

[betsuni]

237. ...

[sheshe2]

260. Luv ya.

[ificandream]

212. DU is the calm in the storm.

I've been a member for several years but just started posting here regularly. It's great posting among voices that won't call you names or engage in nothing but stupid Republican memes. Thanks for DU. I'm sorry I wasn't here that much during the Trump years. I could have used the calm.

[mzmolly]

213. I'm not going anywhere.

My old ass is here to stay.

[sheshe2]

216. Me as well.

It is my home.

I have so many good friends here. People I trust.

[mzmolly]

218. :)

I fully agree!

[sheshe2]

221. Bacaktcha

[TexasBushwhacker]

259. I find 2 things disheartening about younger generations

One is that they are convinced that there will be NO Social Security when they reach retirement age. Adjustments have been made to Social Security before and I think they will again. It's not perfect, but in its 80+ years, it's keep hundreds of millions of seniors out of poverty, as well as disabled people, surviving parents and their children.

The other thing is that I've met so many young people who don't plan on having children. I'm.childless myself just because I never found the right guy to be the dad and I had no interest in being a single mom. The thing is, they are generally choosing to be child free for very intelligent reasons. Chances are, they probably would be good parents.