General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNRA Membership down as much as 30%
This doesn't mean that the gun lobby is toothless, only that it has a cavity or two. The other news is that the NRA was a major influence in 2016 but since Trump came into power the influence has shifted to Brietbart, Tucker Carlson (not Fox at large) and other once fringe groups. That's kind of mixed news.
We CAN counter the gun lobby. Take action.
IrishAfricanAmerican
(3,816 posts)their Russian cash inflow is down significantly as well.
fightforfreedom
(4,913 posts)Of course they didn't figure it out themselves. People had to tell them, show them they were being robbed.
spanone
(135,843 posts)CaliforniaPeggy
(149,627 posts)Amishman
(5,557 posts)The NRA hasn't been behind any of the major legal fights against gun safety in years
AndyS
(14,559 posts)but second you are wrong about the NRA and it's influence in the last few years. The oldest gun group in the country has well worn paths to the doors or sympathetic legislators. The others are both newbies to the political side of things and so extreme that they frighten some of the legislators they target (pun intended) for support.
No other group yet has the likes of the ILA to craft legislation and put it on desks at both the state and federal level. They'll get there but not yet. The GOA was a major factor in the Texas "Constitutional (it's not) carry law, packing the open discussion and intimidating law makers but they are novices at the big time. They will learn but they'll find themselves facing a mature anti violence movement unlike the NRA which had no opposition for the first 30 years of the 'gun wars'.
Terrorist groups need to be outlawed anyways.
PTWB
(4,131 posts)But their incompetence and corruption knew no bounds, so here we are. I'll be glad to see the NRA fade away.
The gun community is turning their backs on the NRA in droves because the collective feeling is that the NRA has turned its back on the gun community. The NRA is seen as a leech that sucks up all the pro-gun donations but doesn't do enough to roll back unpopular regulations (unpopular among those who donate to such organizations). Obviously many of those regulations are quite popular outside of the gun community.
They're also seen as being incredibly wasteful and corrupt.
The downfall of the NRA is a double edged sword, though, as the groups taking its place are more extreme, more militant, and even less willing to compromise.
AndyS
(14,559 posts)The gun culture has been usurped by the gun sellers and over the last 50 years has indoctrinated gunners with the 'need' for guns. They have falsely convinced their following into believing that having a gun in the house makes them safer when the data shows that it puts the family at a 5x greater risk of being hurt by a gun.
Like the Tabaco industry they have lied to their market base and created a circular marketing scheme. You must have a gun to be safe. From who? Other people with guns. The more guns they sell the more imperative to have a gun.
True believers in the gun mantra should be treated with loving concern like a smoker with COPD who was seduced by the advertising 40 years ago or the Trumpanzee who bought into the other big lie.
PTWB
(4,131 posts)Regardless of that origin, the NRAs relevance is quickly diminishing. I suspect that we will see groups like the GOA rush to fill the power vacuum created by the NRAs pending demise. And I suspect that we will see the GOA (and similar groups) introduce a barrage of legislation and manufactured court cases.
The forthcoming SCOTUS ruling in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association Inc. v. Bruen will give us a hint at how successful those court cases may be.
AndyS
(14,559 posts)The modern gun culture is well documented with it's beginnings in the '70s coup of the NRA, until recently the largest most influential power in the gun culture, and the subsequent movement from gun safety, marksmanship and responsibility to a sell guns through fear movement. That's also well documented.
It's like the stages of grief; denial, anger, bargaining, depression and finally acceptance. When someone is told they are the victim of a destructive cult (root of the word culture) they deny. If told again they are a victim they tend to get angry. Next they bargain: when this happens then you'll see I'm right. Soon the victim becomes dejected as they come to terms with the real world facts. Finally, sometimes after years, they accept and cease being victims.
It's like dealing with anti maskers or anti vaxers. No matter how much data is shown and how convincing the science is they cling to the dogma of the cult and then get angry about the evidence. Then the bargaining begins: in this case if the NFA was just clarified we could come to terms. Eventually when it becomes clear that that won't work they get sad and eventually come to accept that they were duped by the cult leaders. That is when they can truly break free.
PTWB
(4,131 posts)That deflection is a normal reaction in the process of recognizing that one has a problem.
There are some folks who, when confronted with viable options to achieve meaningful gun control, still stick with their same old shtick that hasnt produced any meaningful gun control legislation in decades. In fact, weve seen existing gun control laws expire and seen them struck down by SCOTUS.
No matter how many gun control laws are struck down and no matter how many years go by with no meaningful gun control legislation enacted, these folks cling to their dogma and refuse to compromise in order to pass meaningful legislation such as Universal Background Checks, Mandatory Safe Storage Laws, and Minimum Standards for Concealed Carry license.
We need meaningful gun control legislation passed today but we arent going to get it by doing the same things that havent worked for decades. Weve got to modernize our approach to gun issues if we want to have any hope of passing legislation.
Righteous indignation isnt going to pass any gun control. If it was, we would have been able to pass something in the immediate wake of Sandy Hook. Its been nearly a decade and here we are without a single meaningful peace of legislation.
Eventually when it becomes clear that righteous indignation alone won't work, perhaps these folks will abandon their dogma and work with the majority of Americans who want meaningful gun control. Perhaps when that day comes we can all work together to forge a compromise to get it done. If its not too late, anyway.
A handful of pro-gun SCOTUS decisions could eliminate the bargaining chips we currently hold with which to forge the aforementioned compromises.
The clock is ticking and a lot of lives are at stake.
AndyS
(14,559 posts)PTWB
(4,131 posts)Some folks would rather do the same things over and over, even when those things dont work, because theyre so invested in the process instead of the results. In fact, theyre so invested in that process that they cant see when its actually hurting their chances of achieving the results they initially sought.
It makes me sick to my stomach that we are slowly losing our chance to compromise. Once SCOTUS has overturned the very laws we seek to compromise with, we we will be out of leverage and out of options. If that happens, our ability to pass meaningful gun control will be lost for at least another generation.
Its truly disheartening.
Got any predictions you care to make regarding their pending ruling in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association Inc. v. Bruen?
AndyS
(14,559 posts)Still denying that there is a cult that has indoctrinated it's members with falsehoods and grandiose imaginings.
Still, we care about you and see you for the lost soul you are. Someday the science, statistics and truth of guns and the damage they do will become clear to you and when that day comes you can move on and become healthy again. Until then know that we are here for you. We wait with loving concern.
PTWB
(4,131 posts)Im trying to get meaningful gun control passed in spite of the current political climate that makes it so difficult. Perhaps youve mistaken me for someone else?
AndyS
(14,559 posts)a slow one. Change is hard but it is possible with care and support.
Its true that my proposal would cost a little in the way of compromise, but it would gain a lot in the way of meaningful gun control. Doing what weve been doing costs nothing in the way of compromise but gains nothing in the way of results.
I question the sincerity of anyone who claims to support gun control efforts but simultaneous sabotages those efforts because they dont pass self-imposed purity tests. Is that self-sabotage the result of their denial, or is it something more nefarious?
How many lives would be saved if we had mandatory safe storage laws, universal background checks, and minimum standards for concealed carry licenses?
Im sure the victims of future gun crime will take solace in the righteous indignation of those who refused to compromise in order to pass the legislation that could have saved their lives.
Got any predictions you care to make regarding the pending SCOTUS ruling in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association Inc. v. Bruen?
AndyS
(14,559 posts)I understand how hard it is to accept that there is a cult and that that cult is both harmful and enabling. Someday you will read these words with a clear mind and see how delusional they are. Not now but someday and when that day comes acceptance comes with it.
PTWB
(4,131 posts)Because Im trying to pass meaningful gun control legislation?
Got any predictions you care to make regarding the pending SCOTUS ruling in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association Inc. v. Bruen?
AndyS
(14,559 posts)I'm not in the habit of prognosticating about court decisions and that's outside the scope of the OP and the other comments. It is however a common tactic used to deflect from an uncomfortable situation.
So not only do you call me delusional for my attempts to pass meaningful, life saving gun control legislation, but you also decline to address the pending SCOTUS case while saying that Im in denial.
What was it that you wrote before?
Oh yes, deflection is a normal reaction in the process of recognizing that one has a problem.
We need meaningful gun control and we need it now. Those who refuse to compromise are placing their purity tests and their personal righteous indignation ahead of the lives of those lost to gun violence.
AndyS
(14,559 posts)not deserving of it.
The pending court decision will be what it will be, I have no say in it and once again it is outside the scope of the OP and any comments other than yours in this thread. The choice not to be lead on a pursuit of a red herring is mine to make.
That a meaningful discussion on gun regulation is needed is without saying. To attempt such a discussion with someone still denying the influence of the gun culture is pointless. So, when you get to the stage of acceptance I will be here for you.
PTWB
(4,131 posts)Its very clear what you were doing. I was just curious if you would stand behind the insults you were using, thinly veiled as they might be, or if youd try to distance yourself from them once confronted. I suspected youd not have the conviction to stand behind those insults and I was correct.
Lets be honest though: you had no chance at being able to defend calling me delusional for attempting to try to pass meaningful gun control legislation. Instead of hurling insults at those whose methods differ from your own, shouldnt you consider working with us (that is if you truly want to see gun control pass)?
I want common sense gun control laws like universal background checks, mandatory safe storage, and minimum standards for concealed carry licenseslaws that will lead to fewer gun deaths. Dont you want those things too?
Regarding your refusal to engage on the pending SCOTUS case, Ill just have to quote you again: deflection is a normal reaction in the process of recognizing that one has a problem. You dont want to talk about the elephant in the room because you know it will expose the flaws in your positions and, again, youve chosen to protect the purity of your process at the expense of never achieving meaningful results.
The fact is what weve been doing isnt working. Weve not passed any meaningful gun control legislation in decades. We still have a chance now, even in this political climate, but that chance is fading as SCOTUS chips away at what little leverage we do have with which to negotiate.
How many people have to die before we actually do something? We need meaningful gun control and we need it now.
AndyS
(14,559 posts)Until you reject the ideas inculcated into your thinking by the gun culture you cannot be reached. I did not call you delusional. Read that post again. I said someday you will recognize the ideas you support as delusional. The idea of compromise you speak of is not a compromise but a demand for capitulation. The end goal of this "compromise" is to dismantle the NFA and allow the over the counter sale of machine guns, short barrel rifles, sawed off shotguns and some explosives.
So, once again, when you finally get through some of the steps it takes to recognize how badly the gun industry has used and abused you and are willing to actually work for what you say you want any conversation with you is pointless.
When you are ready I'll be here for you. Until then I'll ignore your comments as they are hollow and devoid of sincerity.
PTWB
(4,131 posts)Nowhere in my proposal did I suggest that we should allow unrestricted over the counter sales of machine guns, SBRs, shot barrel shotguns, or explosives. Last time you made that claim I admonished you that you were incorrect and here you are making that same claim again. You know you can't attack what I've actually proposed so you've concocted a fantasy that is unrelated to anything I've written, attributed that fantasy to me, and are attacking the fantasy that is entirely of your own creation.
For anyone interested, you can read my proposal here: Compromises to Achieve Universal Background Checks, Safe Storage Laws & Concealed Carry Minimum Standards
Feel free to continue to insult those of us who choose to put results ahead of the purity of the process. In the mean time, I'll continue pushing for progressive, impactful gun control legislation that can actually pass in this political climate.
NickB79
(19,247 posts)Yes, an even further-right gun rights group is supplanting the NRA. 2 million members and rising fast.
iemanja
(53,035 posts)a kennedy
(29,672 posts)Generic Brad
(14,275 posts)They sure as hell dont promote gun rights.