ruh roh, docs regarding Pence have been shredded, beyond being taped back up

[deminks]

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Another criminal act. And another criminal act. And another criminal act. And...

[Samrob]

1. Time for staff to bring out the photo copies. nt

[msfiddlestix]

2. Well they've only had over a year to destroy evidence

when it comes documented evidence, the obvious protocol is to seize them before they are destroyed.

[Irish_Dem]

5. Right, taking over a year to investigate seems wrong.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

35. Yet FG probably learned to never put anything in writing in third grade.

Agree tho - not like we are dealing with any ethical people here.

[DENVERPOPS]

48. There was a ton of time

Between November and January 20th......I will bet that Trump, his spawn and Jared were running the shredders non stop.

I remember the same period when Bush/Cheney were leaving office. There were pictures of a huge truck sized shredder backed up to Cheney's house's front door for an entire day....

Besides, didn't Trump insist on putting a lot of documents on that top top top secret government computer server that no one else had access to????

[Nevilledog]

60. Destroying evidence relevant to the 2nd Impeachment

[msfiddlestix]

66. I'd forgotten about that "top top secret gov server" serving as a vault and digital shredder.

Wonder if that bit was immediately forgotten about when Biden took office, if it was dismantled and removed before he took office, or if it's still there. Love to know what happened to that.

I missed the bit about the truck shredder in front of Cheney's house, but I do remember in the heat of the Fitzmas investigations a fire had broken out in Cheney's office, reportedly from his office shredder. No followup on that bit that I'm aware of.

[abqtommy]

3. If a document is created on a hard drive and printed out then it's still on the hard drive.

Of course hard drives can be destroyed too but some people don't think that far.

[Irish_Dem]

4. An attorney friend of mine regularly works with shredded documents.

He is a high powered divorce attorney and is used to people shredding documents. He has a group of retired teachers who can put shredded documents back together.

It takes patience and a good eye.

During the summer he uses teachers who are still working who want to earn some extra money.

[Tommy Carcetti]

8. Remember the movie Argo?

The Iranians at the embassy putting all the shredded documents back together.

[Irish_Dem]

12. Yes same thing.

[KPN]

30. Exactly what I was thinking. So where are the shreds?

[Liberal In Texas]

40. If they were sent to the incinerator there's no taping them back together. n/t

[KPN]

58. How would they know they were shredded if they no longer exist?

[KPN]

59. How would they know they were shredded if they no longer exist?

Seems like only if they were told by someone(s) that they were shredded. So how and why did those someone(s) know?

[Disaffected]

17. I wonder if there is

an app for that. Seems to me it could be a lot faster and more reliable.

[Irish_Dem]

22. Good question. He is an older attorney, he still uses humans for work.

[ShazzieB]

18. Oh, man, I want to get a job doing this!

I'm serious. I'm theoretically retired but could REALLY use some extra money, and this sounds right up my alley!

[Irish_Dem]

25. Maybe contact some law firms?

Divorce attorneys see shredded financial documents.

Or maybe look online and see if there are job requests for this work.

My friend is about to retire and is winding things down.

[CloudWatcher]

24. strip shredded ... yes

... but cross-cut? I'm more than a little skeptical.

[Irish_Dem]

28. The article above I don't think said cross shredded.

Yes I am referencing strip shredding.

I am honestly telling you about a factual situation.

[paleotn]

29. The ultimate jigsaw puzzle. Haven't these people ever thought of fire?

Or have the devolved to pre-erectus and don't understand the concept of just burning the damn things?

[Irish_Dem]

33. A divorcing spouse removes guns, cash, drugs

from the home, often in a hurry.

They don't think about shredded documents.
They assume it cannot be reassembled.
And the drugs, cash, valuables, guns are their focus.

[Saboburns]

34. Actually no, shredded Government documents can not be taped back together.

That's what I do, I work at shredding company that has our entire state government contracts to shed their papers, and also all the Federal Social Security offices thru out the state.

These kinds of offices pay big bucks for shredding services because of the multitude of laws and regulations that are mandated to shred all government papers. You would not believe the level of quality control involved.

First of all this is industrial shredding, we shred 20 tons a day, every day. We are talking room size shredding machines. The paper gets shredded into tiny pieces. And the size of the pieces is regulated. And we get onsight investigated twice each month. A state agency comes in and actually measures the tiny pieces, it has to be less than 1/8th of an inch.

Also there is strict chain of custody protocals. As well as extremely tight security. Lots of steel doors, lots of locks, no strangers allowed.

Before I started working there I had no idea. But when you realize that we are dealing with medical records, social security records, bank records, child-abuse investigations, legal records, et al. you can start to understand how important it is to shred this stuff the right way, and keep it away from the black hats.

[Irish_Dem]

42. These idiots could have used cheap home shredders.

Nothing would surprise me.

They think they are above the law.

[Saboburns]

46. You are exactly right there

The majority of papers we collect and put through our industrial machines have been shredded once already with a home or office shredder. And I agree those can be taped back together.

We make confetti out of them.

[Irish_Dem]

49. GOP criminals are often lazy and arrogant.

Who knows what they did?

Interesting so people do home shredder first.

Then bigger more sopisticated shredders.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

37. Except there are shredders that tout the inability to reassemble docs

I know because I bought one. Wasn't looking for that but was kinda impressed.

[Irish_Dem]

45. Someone said the FBI might be able to reassemble.

With sophisticated computer equipment.

[C_U_L8R]

6. It's the cover-up that gets them. So it's said.

We will see.

[Pobeka]

7. If the shreds are available, this is just a computer problem.

. Load shreds between to plates of glass.
. Take hi-res image of both sides.
. Let the computer re-assemble the pieces.

I'd be completely shocked if the FBI/NSA/CIA doesn't have this process down pat from a long time ago.

Just a fun problem for a summer intern a couple of decades ago.

[LAS14]

10. Yeah, but what idiot would keep the shreds??? nt

[Pobeka]

13. The ones that dump them in the trash, and then the NSA/CIA collects the trash.

Maybe a long shot, but you never know for sure.

[Irish_Dem]

32. Apparently a lot folks just don't think about it after shredding.

They think it is impossible to put back together.

And in cases of divorce, one spouse leaves the home and their bags and boxes of stuff, including garbage, are left behind.

In a number of cases spouses have to leave the home quickly and are more interested in getting their cash, guns and drugs out of the home.
They don't think about the shredded incriminating documents.

[KPN]

36. No kidding. nt

[dalton99a]

50. There is an app:

https://www.unshredder.com/the-challenge

[Disaffected]

54. Depends on how small the pieces are.

For instance, if each piece was so small it contained only a single letter or fraction thereof and the pieces were of uniform size and shape, it would not be possible to recreate the original content.

[Pobeka]

64. High resolution imaging -- means you can see the irregular edge along each cut piece.

When you look close at stuff like this, what appears to be smooth isn't so smooth at all. It's just a matter of scale of inspection.

A *ton* of information available to put the pieces back to together.

[Disaffected]

67. I doubt that but am willing to be shown actual cases to the contrary.

When paper is cut, the edges are not perfectly smooth as you point out but a random jaggle of fibers, random being the key feature. There is therefore no plausible way IMO for very small pieces to be accurately matched to what would be its neighbours. As the pieces get smaller, the randomness of the cut surfaces furthermore increases in respect to the size of the pieces so the problem gets more & more difficult.

[LAS14]

9. I believe I once heard about computers being used...

... to scan in the thin shreds and put them back together digitally. It actually sounds like a not-too-complicated computer program.

I just saw the reply above this one when I looked at what I'd written. Yeah!

[uponit7771]

11. Would it be likely J6 terrorist would be able to destroy evidence if DOJ had a warrant to go get it?

Jus say, after a year we shouldn't expect shit as evidence outside of terrible things that aren't illegal.

[KPN]

39. Hard not to feel exactly this way. Trusting the mob to follow

the law while you gear up seems naive.

[blogslug]

14. History rhyming again

[appalachiablue]

41. +1

[patphil]

15. You would think that, after the first few times, they would make copies before giving them to him.

In fact, give him the copies and let him think he's actually destroying documents.

[KPN]

43. Who's they and why would they if/when they know

what the boss wants.

[patphil]

55. Someone provided Trump with the documents he read when he was President.

These were probably the same people who picked up the pieces of the documents after he tore them up; fished them out of the trash or whatever. These people where White House staff. You'd think they would have figured out that he might rip up documents that contained information he didn't like, or didn't want anyone else to see.
Since they went to the trouble of retrieving the pieces and taping them back together, I would think they would have figured out what he was likely to do with certain documents.
It only makes sense that they could have protected those documents a little better if they made copies.
But then, maybe they liked re-assembling puzzles.

[KPN]

56. Or maybe they were just more concerned about their jobs than ANYTHING else.

[patphil]

57. Yeah, I don't know the motives of the people who did this, only suggesting a different approach.

[DallasNE]

16. Follow The Chain Of Custody

Also, some of the documents will have been sent to multiple sources so track down the alternate sources. Lastly, were any of those documents scanned and are those scanned copies available.

My shredder double cuts into strips about 2 inches long and 1/4 inch wide. That would be some undertaking to put back together but it could conceivably be done. But I'm sure there are shredders that cut even finer than my cheap shredder.

[captain queeg]

19. If they have the physical shreds they could be rebuilt.

Lots of work, but I assure you the NSA, CIA, and FBI could accomplish it. Retrieving computers would be easier, but perhaps hard to prove who has looked at it or signed it.

[LudwigPastorius]

20. It'd be interesting to see TFG's strategy in trying to get Pence to steal the election.

Just a guess, but knowing Trump, it probably started with bribery - "How much/What do you want to do this thing?" - then moved to coercion - "If you don't do this thing, I'll have my people storm the Capitol and tear you apart".

I'd really like to see those documents.

[leftieNanner]

44. Guessing that would all be verbal

He never did anything in writing.

From what Michael Cohen said, he never even said anything explicit out loud either. It was all in code.

"Who will rid me of this meddlesome priest."

[gratuitous]

21. The former guy's administration has clearly made a decision

The penalty for destroying evidence is far less than the penalty for whatever crime they're covering up. Jose Rodriguez did that with the tapes of the torture sessions at Abu Ghraib, correctly figuring that destroying evidence was far less risky than getting charged with crimes against humanity.

[dchill]

23. And THAT'S bologna.

[SeattleVet]

26. Looks like they may need a new shredding system for the WH...

one that scans the document as it is being fed in, with the file being uploaded in real-time to the National Archives.

May be needed if TFG *ever* gets close to the White House again, except if he is allowed in on a wait-in-the-line tourist visit. (Even then, we will have to pay someone to count the silverware, paintings, and sculptures before and after his visit.)

[Poiuyt]

27. One of these days, someone's going to post a law that Trump hasn't broken

It may take a while, but I'm an optimist.

[reACTIONary]

31. Here is the relevant paragraph from the actual WaPo report...

One senior Trump White House official said he and other White House staffers frequently put documents into “burn bags” to be destroyed, rather than preserving them, and would decide themselves what should be saved and what should be burned. When the Jan. 6 committee asked for certain documents related to Trump’s efforts to pressure Vice President Mike Pence, for example, some of them no longer existed in this person’s files because they had already been shredded, said someone familiar with the request.

The full article, no paywall
https://wapo.st/330P3sF

[jmowreader]

38. Let's talk about ultra high security shredders for a minute

In my Army service I generated a lot of highly classified information. This also means I generated a lot of highly classified trash.

Which naturally means we had to destroy a lot of highly classified trash. And we didn't do it with the shredders sold at office supply stores.

The cheapest shredders you can buy that are approved for destroying classified information (and material that'll get the president thrown in prison if it ever gets out, but we won't talk about that right now) meet NSA/CSS Specification 02-01. These create a shred no more than 1mm x 5mm in size, and most of them shred things a bit finer than that.

If you would like to step up a notch, the new NSA/CSS Specification 02-02 produces the same size shred, but will also do digital media like CDs and DVDs.

For the serious producer of classified information, and the most corrupt presidents, knifemills and hammermills are available. What comes out the back of those things looks like dryer lint. This is what you buy when your local environmental laws won't allow you to have an incinerator.

The ultimate in security is the incinerator.

Ultra-high-security document destroyers also use "security in volume." Someone like CIA will have a minimum shred load size. Let's say it's 2000 pounds of material, which a big shop can build up in about a week. You put the load you want to destroy on a scale. If it's low, you start throwing old newspapers, comic books, transcripts of Trump speeches, blank paper, Army Regulations no one in the unit follows anyway, empty beer cases or whatever else you have sitting around on the scale before you shred, and then you dump it all in. You know the old saying about finding a needle in a haystack. The purpose behind security in volume is to make the haystack bigger.

If these guys are saying Pence shredded his incriminating evidence so thoroughly it'll never be reassembled...believe them.

[LymphocyteLover]

47. Interesting... thanks

[eppur_se_muova]

51. Hire some Iranian college students. They defeated US Embassy shredders. nt

[thesquanderer]

52. He actually did what he kept threatening to jail Hillary over!

From the article:

Other administrations have also run afoul of the Presidential Records Act. White House aides in both Democratic and Republican administrations, for example, have long used personal devices to text with reporters as well as other staff, rather than government-issued devices, while others have been caught using personal email for official work.

[ForgedCrank]

53. Just another

twitter mouth with no real or usable information.
The ass is never going to jail because of twitter rumors and gossip.
I'm tired of all these gotcha bits and none of it every produces anything.

[ecstatic]

61. 🤬🤬😡😡😡😤 Lock them up!

I am so sick of this shit! We heard endless complaining over Hillary's emails and there's damn near crickets regarding how tfg's administration handled not only emails but records in general. They need to pay for this and the media needs to be fair, for once!

[malaise]

62. Those alone should send the Slobfather to prison

I detest that creep

[malaise]

63. Those alone should send the Slobfather to prison

I detest that creep

[llmart]

65. Were these documents created on a Smith Corona typewriter or something?

In this digital age you would think nothing is actually destroyed completely by any sort of shredder. Yes, I realize a phone or computer can have everything wiped but I haven't heard anyone mention that.